picking a mob to charm while in a group

[fat to]

<div>If there is less than two people that I can cast recklessness on, I look for a mob to charm. I hear that the quality of the charm spell you have (apprentice, adept) will make the the spells/combat arts that the charmed mob casts be of the same quality. ie. If you have an adept III charm, your charmed mob will cast adept III spells. I'm usually trying to find the best damage dealing mob I can find. Thinking that if you have a high quality charm, you'd look for a mage type mob, because out of the four archetypes their level of damage is tied to their spell quality the closest. I look at the combat logs to see what spells are being used on the group and try to pick a mage type, if not then scout, if not then priest, and if not then fighter. This is a question mostly addressed to arganon, who says that charm should be used in groups most of the time as well as soloing. I have heard from others that charm is for soloing purposes only, and you should always turn on your single target buffs when in a group. I'd like to think charm would be useful in just about every situation, being that it is our "class defining" ability.</div><div> </div><div>So, which mob types are you looking to charm while in a group, and how do you go about finding that mob?</div>

[Eriol]

The (relatively few) times I have used charm in groups, it's USUALLY not kept up all the time. I actually use it as a CC method when the **** hits the fan. Now AE mez fills that gap as well, but if you have multiple ^^^ around, sometimes it's beneficial to take over one of those guys, and use it as both DPS and CC until the end of the fight, then kill it.Occasionally I go for DPS pets too, though that varies wildly on what I like to take. Often a case of "taking whatever's avialable", so someone else is more qualified to talk about that.

[Geez]

<div></div><div>Here is my take on this. Even though I am only lvl 42 maybe it'll give you something to chew on.</div><div> </div><div>In most groups our main utility is grossly underused and underappreciated, which is the ability to CC. Sure most encounters can be handled without CC, but in my experience any group who DOES utilize our abilities is having a much, much easier time, especially if during or right after an encounter a group of mobs spawns right on top of the group.</div><div> </div><div>Having said that, most groups dont appreciate our CC skills and its not worth it most of the time to try to convince anybody. So I would always have a pet with me. say what you want, a pet that nukes for 1.5K to 2K (at my level) is simply additional dps that should not be underestimated, and if you dont have a pet and cant mezz, what do you do? stun every so often and be a mana battery. oh yeah, you can also put your reactive on a mob. the dots we have arent worth the casting time imo.</div><div> </div><div>So I would say dont listen to people who dont want you to have a pet. its mostly their selfishness...they want the buff for their dps, they dont care if you get bored with aufollowing. And I highly doubt that recklessness/bravado makes up for a high nuking pet.</div><div> </div><div>How do you go about finding the best pet?</div><div> </div><div>quite simple. Explore the map, look for casters. Pet them, try them out, look for the dmg output. then compare with others in the same zone.</div><div> </div><div>our pets dont make good tanks anyways, so you might as well go for dps. And like you said, if you cant find a mage type, get a priest/shaman type. still ok dps, and it usually heals itself.</div><div> </div><div>edit: eriol has a point there too. sometimes it can be beneficial to let your best pet go and charm one of the mobs that you are fighting simply to even the odds some more.</div><p>Message Edited by Geezuz on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:42 PM</span></p>

[Mandelbro]

Mage pets.  Always.<div></div>

[Aranieq]

<div></div>I myself am a fan of the mage pet as well.. the ranged attacks keep him out of the fray a little bit more than a melle there is little to no positioning of the pet required and of course mage M1 spells do kick some serious mob toosh. 

[Viohlen]

<div>SK pet, wards itself and harmtouches</div>

[Aranieq]

<div></div><p>I have my own SK pet .. hehe its called a husband =p</p><p>allthough I bet a charmed one would listen more =p</p>

[lordofdrago]

<div></div>lol<div></div>

[Dorfls]

Its too hard to explain real CC to people in pick up groups, so I don't bother.Its often also too hard to use a pet since people either [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about the break or try to kill it when I am attempt to mezz the mob or recharm it.SO in a group that knows me and understands the very obvious charms (sorry for the punn) of a coercer then there are a few options.If we are short of DPS then WE use a pet  - they all understand its my responsibility to control it and charm it.  But the healer does keep an eye on me.If we are fine for DPS but there is the chance of pulling a number of large groups that could cuase us problems then I am in charge of Crowd Control.   This is only the case when the mobs are +++ Heroics a few levels higher than the main tank.   Otherwise holding this aggro and taking the damage is not an issue and CC severly limits our DPS since Area of Effect (AoE) spells would be a better option.It takes considerable understanding of their spells and discipline for a group to do CC well. The other option of course is daisy-chaining (TM).   Useful for really tough areas where the group is not up to the task.....  a more complex discussion<div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<div></div><p>One tactic I use for making charmed monsters more well recieved in groups (ie, stop them fighters from trying to beat down a charmed mob), I put my Ratonga illusion on it.</p><p>It helps in that it makes them smaller (so it doesn't get in the way).</p><p>It will instantly tell you when it's broken (ratonga spell disapears and it's back to it's ugly self again).</p><p>It will give a visual cue that it's not an enemy for even the dimmest of bulbs. I've had a fighter trying to fight and taunt my charmed pet for a minute before I realized he wasn't taking a break. He'd keep doing it after every fight too...Finally, I cast the illusion on it and he was like "Oh!". :smileyindifferent:</p><p>And it can be fun when you charm a large creature and have a 15 foot tall ratonga for your pet. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p>You can use Troll too... although I find ratonga more fun.</p>

[MJDevos]

<div></div>Depends on the zone, mostly for melee mobs.My guidelines is a Mage, Scout, Priest type mobs.Caster Trash mobs tend to just cast between 2 different spells, while Melee trash mobs mostly just auto attack and might through in a Combat Art or two if you are lucky.In Halls of Testing with Master 1 Domination I would charm a scout mob and this is what I saw. Did not matter if it was a single, double, or triple up mob. Auto attacked between 400 and 950 Combat Art 1 between 1.2k and 1.5k Combat Art 2 between 4.0k and 8.5kThe melee mobs in Halls of Fate tend to use more Combat Arts than Trash mobs.As for Caster pets, it does look like the quality of the spell does affect their own spells.One thing that I think has changed is the mobs hit points when charmed, was fighting with a charmed scout mob against the centurions in Halls of Fate, charmed mob gained agro from the Pally with Amends on the Warlock and the Centurion hit for 10k+ and and the mob was still up, Was surprized that the mob was still standing from such a hit. The centurion then proceeded to kill the pet in the next hit for 8k. Not sure if it is the level of the mob or if they made any other 'stealth' changes to the mechanics of charming?<div></div>

[Spellz]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>MJDevos wrote:<div></div>Depends on the zone, mostly for melee mobs.My guidelines is a Mage, Scout, Priest type mobs.Caster Trash mobs tend to just cast between 2 different spells, while Melee trash mobs mostly just auto attack and might through in a Combat Art or two if you are lucky.In Halls of Testing with Master 1 Domination I would charm a scout mob and this is what I saw. Did not matter if it was a single, double, or triple up mob. Auto attacked between 400 and 950 Combat Art 1 between 1.2k and 1.5k Combat Art 2 between 4.0k and 8.5kThe melee mobs in Halls of Fate tend to use more Combat Arts than Trash mobs.As for Caster pets, it does look like the quality of the spell does affect their own spells.One thing that I think has changed is the mobs hit points when charmed, was fighting with a charmed scout mob against the centurions in Halls of Fate, charmed mob gained agro from the Pally with Amends on the Warlock and the Centurion hit for 10k+ and and the mob was still up, Was surprized that the mob was still standing from such a hit. The centurion then proceeded to kill the pet in the next hit for 8k. Not sure if it is the level of the mob or if they made any other 'stealth' changes to the mechanics of charming?<div></div><hr></blockquote>Thought i read on these forums that SOE put a patch in, that anything above a single^ (ie. ^^, ^^^ and names) all scale down to just a single ^?</span></div>

[Chrysostom]

<span>"Thought i read on these forums that SOE put a patch in, that anything above a single^ (ie. ^^, ^^^ and names) all scale down to just a single ^?"</span><div></div>Close.  They get the hitpoints of a no-arrow. If this creature had 10k+ hits as a no-arrow then the ^^^ version probably have around 60-80k.

[Chrysostom]

<div></div>OH! As to the original question.  Depends on the persons I am grouping with and the availability of a good pet. I am nearly always grouped with guildies <grin>, so it comes down to the pet.If a good dps pet is available I will usually charm. Lets face it, charm is a major portion of our DPS and in this game its all about Tank, healer, DPS.  When I get to CC its just the icing on the cake.<div></div>Edit: heh. I lyke speelling, its gude<p>Message Edited by Chrysostom on <span class="date_text">03-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:53 AM</span></p>

[Tanatus]

<div></div><p>Order of preference for me</p><p>Wizard pet (example are: corpse flame, corpse candle), Warlock pet (Ravasect Spellspiner), Fury Pet (Fetidhorrors, Ravasect drones), Brigand pet (Ravasect Stalker)</p><p>Bear in mind that fury pets with M1 charm have primary attack nuke 1.8-2.3K and use it very often, as well as AoE nuke for about 1.2-1.5K, toss here fact that they have high index of selfpreservation and in certain conditions can cast group heals. Fetidhorrors nuke upward 3.3K</p>

[Willm]

<div></div><p>I personally prefer not to charm during groups.  I think the hate buff on the mt and the hastes on the melee is too important for that.  Sometimes if there are too many adds, I'll charm one as to not worry about it for a bit.  Having a charmed mob needs too much attention.  I would rather be available for mezzes and power maintanance instead of worrying about my pet adding to any problems.</p><p> </p><p>Sinestra</p><p>Befallen</p><p>67 coercer</p>

[Thro]

<div></div><div>To each his own. But assuming you have a master 1 charm spell, a charmed pet is going to add far more DPS to a group than our autoattack DPS buff. The DPS buff on the main tank is often nice, as it helps them to maintain aggro without needing to burn combat arts. But in general, groups don't run out of power when together with a coercer, and what this means is that most players will be spamming combat arts, so the DPS buff will only be adding trivial extra damage.</div><div> </div><div>On the other hand, a good casting pet will almost always do more damage than you, as a coercer, can do yourself using your reactives, DoTs, and DD spells.  So at the very least, a pet doubles your DPS. With a good pet, a coercer becomes a DPS class, and can fulfill that role. Without a pet, a coercer remains more of a utility class. So, if the group requires that you play more defensively, for whatever reasons, then perhaps a pet is not so necessary (and can occasionally become a liability in these situations). But if you find yourself doing little more than nuking in a particular group, you're really hurting your contribution in the DPS department by not using charm.</div><div> </div><div>Finally I should say, that even in those situations in which you find yourself playing defensively, a charmed pet can be a terrific addition because it allows you to contribute in terms of damage, while focusing on casting your stuns, stifle, and mezzes.</div>

[fat to]

If a mob has any up arrows on it when charmed, the charmed mobs hp drops to that of a no arrow mob is my understanding. I haven't tested this out yet, but does the mob's damage scale down as well? Maybe the mobs damage is just dependent on the quality of the charm? Does anyone ever charm a double or triple up on purpose in dungeons?pumpkin 31 coercer / 38 woodworker nagafen<div></div>

[Enil]

I charm 1up and 2up all the time in groups.  I refrain from using 3up and the seldom I do, only for a short time.  That might change after next patch when we will be getting a warning when charm is about to break and the mob gets mezed for a short while when it does.  This change might make it "safe" for us to use 3up all the time.  Keep in mind though that a 3up is not a better pet than a 1up of the same type.  Well, except for a larger powerpool that is.  How many times have you seen a 1up pet get out of power anyways?<div></div>