Possible problem with agro management

[Inglorion]

<div></div><div>To say this first and out loud, this is not a "flame" or "unhappy post 1234512123"....just a concern and a heads up and - naive hope - that we might get a confirmation that this was intended or a fix if it wasn't.</div><div> </div><div>I don't usually post, but the funniest thing happened today when I tried to submit this as a bug report....filled out all the appropriate fields in the bug window, and yet the submit button never lit up so I could submit it - even tried to clear my cache and cookies in IE and run completely default UI as per suggestion from others that that might be the problem....to no avail, so my bug report window is bugged....kinda like a Monty Python sketch...."i'd like to report that the report about the report is flawed" :smileyvery-happy:</div><div> </div><div>Anyways, I was solo'ing mobs with charm today as i have done many times before. The particular case which I tested out 8 times was this: a solo encounter of 2 mobs one arrow down each in Tenebrous Tangle. Usually, when you charm one mob, they both bee-line to you and the uncharmed mob hits you once or twice before the charmed pet pulls agro off you if you do nothing to aggravate the mob any further. If you have done something more to make the mob mad at you, you could use the agro lowering spells to make sure the pet took the brunt of the dmg dealt by the uncharmed mob.</div><div> </div><div>Now the issue at hand is this: today when i charmed one mob, the second mob kept hitting and hitting me no matter how much dmg the charmed pet dealt. I even tried to wipe the agro list with the Amnesia spell which used to be a sure way to wipe the agro list and make the pet the top priority of the uncharmed mob (Amnesia stuns for a brief while and puts whomever does offensive action while mob is stunned on top of the agro list).</div><div> </div><div>Here is my thought on this. Has the change in the encounter counter affected how mobs react to these agro management spells? All the 8 times I tried this, I did nothing more than charm, cast Amnesia, then root while the charmed pet pounded the uncharmed mob from full health to death, recasting Amnesia whenever it repopped to cast. At NO time did the  uncharmed mob switch to target my charmed pet, which is definitely a change from how this used to work.</div><div> </div><div>My question is if this was an intentional change and if so howcome it was not announced, or if it was unintentional and if so if we should expect it to change or stay as it is - at the very least, it would be nice to just get a "it is working as intended"-response, so we have a clear expectation on what we have to adapt to.....I was lucky to discover this doing fairly "easy" mobs - ie green mobs - but I can imagine there might be some out there who aren't as "lucky" running around in places like Bonemire.</div><div> </div><div>Anyways, I think most coercers will agree that we are decent at adapting to changes....just hard to adapt unless you know about them :smileywink:</div><div> </div><div>Kind regards,</div><div> </div><div>Inglorion, 63 coercer, Mistmoore</div><div>Jokers Wild</div><p>Message Edited by Inglorion on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:10 PM</span></p>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<div></div><p>Question... all 8 times you tested this, was it on the same type of creatures?</p><p>The reason I ask is because now that creatures use abilities associated with their class, you may have been charming a Scout NPC that was using Evade the entire fight, heh. He'd never get aggro because he's wiping it himself.</p><p>Which is kinda cool, if it were used in a group situation (your pet would never draw aggro)... but utterly useless in soloing.</p><p> </p><p>A little side track.. why is it that those plant-like things can totally destroy the yellowjacket wasps in a couple hits? The same spells and melee that do 200-300 damage on everything else (including myself), seem to do 3500 or 7000 damage to these wasps! Very strange.</p><p>Didn't get a chance to test things, so maybe wasps have this MASSIVE negative to a certain resistance (like poison?), which would explain why my nukes were still doing their customary 300 damage on em.</p>

[Daz]

<div>I am not sure myself. I was playing around with charm in Shattered Weir and a few times the ashengaze basilisks would not stay agro'd on my charmed basilisk at all. I would do the same things you said you were doing and it would still chase me lol./shrug. It was not consistant though.</div><div>One funny thing happend is I charmed one basilisk and put it on another, my charm broke and they ignored me and kept fighting til one was dead. The winner came at me then. I am used to when charm breaks having both turn their agro to me.Oddness!</div>

[Mandelbro]

You might want to try not using Amnesia, as it doesn't work quite how you say it does.  When the stun wears off, ONLY YOU are on the aggro list.  Damage done to the mob while it is stunned does not count.  You may want to Amnesia followed by your Confoundment line, which actually lowers your hate.Try dropping your mental mitigation buff and putting hate on your pet.  See if that works.I haven't noticed any aggro change in fighting.<div></div>

[norberg]

I drop instigation/Incitement to decrease charm resists and free up one conc slot. Then I start the encounter with AoE mez, put ravaged psyche on mob to charm, then charm him. Next I put hate buff on charmed mob (and sometimes velocity if I also drop Signet of Reason/enlightenment) and tell it to attack the other mob (its still mezed tho). Thereafter I root the mob to be atttacked and mez any other mobs so they can stand in line. After this I cancel AoE mez and then its just damage procs, DoT's and watch the fight.I never get hit, why should I?Our hate buff is awesome, our MT almost never looses aggro on raids when its on her, even with assassins/warlocks/wizies going crazy. Add our superior powerregen, manacloak, channel and amnesia for reseting hate list when MT goes down any raid leader would miss out not to have a coercer in MT group. Now we even get AA's that'l be good for aggro management in raids.Raukhur, Splitpaw, The dark vengeancelooking at coercing from the bright side<p>Message Edited by norberg02 on <span class="date_text">03-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:38 AM</span></p>

[Mage-Apprentice]

<div></div><p>I found the same/similair prob as well, but didn't test it that deep (main reason I tried to solo ^^^ mobs with a ^^^ pet (no other mobs nearby hence why the high risk)).</p><p>What I did found is this.</p><p>I have a pet and order to attack a mob, nothing happens</p><p>I have engaged a mob, add comes (mezz), pet dies, both engaged mob will have a agrolock on me, they will never, ever attack anything else (perhaps an other PC that agros it and stand nearby, but not an other new charm).</p><p>So if you loose your charm, the game-mechanic leads to think that you and only you have engaged the encounter (it even may be that my autolock makes my new pet I gain in-combat imune to anything).</p><p>However I didn't pull a group-encounter with charm at all.</p>

[Aranieq]

<div></div><p>I've noticed the same issue, myself in the overrealm.  I tend to pull with charm alot when taking down a pair of ^ . Of course this means pet doesnt have the agro buff on him untill after charm.  Once pet has agro buff on its not a prob at all but a mob that didnt get hit by me, casted on, rooted, dot nothing at all should easily be "taunted" off by ANY action from my pet regardless of agro buff.  If a member of my group hits it once it will come off me its just with the pet I think.  The pet hits harder than my groupmate did so i dunno what the issue behind it is. </p><p>I'm not really up in arms over it since I can mezz / charm but the extra step to mezz SHOULD be more agro than just pulling with charm.  I just think it might require a /feedback  even /bug persoannly, just so dev's realize it is a little weird to get more agro from not actually tocuhing the mob than by casting controll spells on it.</p>

[JackAll]

<div></div><p>Im fairly sure it works something like this:</p><p>When you charm a mob it creates a kinda a new encounter/group with the the charmed mob so...</p><p>If you are in 1 or more active encounters and you charm a new mob that mob seems to be locked out of the encounters you are in. They will compleyly ignore it no matter what you do.</p><p>Try rooting the mob you are fighting and back up with your pet hitting it.</p><p>What should happen is the target mob should switch to your pet but it doesnt if you charmed the pet after you engaged the target.</p><p>Using amnesia will not work because your pet cant get on the hate list as it is locked out</p><p> </p>

[Apathyloves]

I've been noticing similar things particularly the charmed mobs that break continue to beat on the victim till one loses and comes after me.  What I'm wondering if this is new since...<ul><li><a target="_blank" href="message?board.id=stat&message.id=266">2006-03-01</a></li><ul><li><strong>Charmed pets that die will no longer count as an encounter that you're currently participating in.</strong></li></ul></ul>Willbender.Nektulos

[JackAll]

<div></div>No, its been like this since the combat changes

[Dorfls]

There is a bug here somewhere.  I was using my tried and tested solo charm approach in Sanctum of Scaleborn last night on pairs of heroic mobs.  All of a sudden there was a particular mob who would not attack my charmed pet even after I rooted him and backed off.  I had not attacked him in any way and there was no way I should have been on top of his aggro list.   My pet conitued to beat him down and eventually killed him - but even throughout the long fight I held aggro.The next fight I tried was the same so I pulled the pet back off, mezzed the group , camped and came back.  The problem then went away.  This is new and a problem.  BUT very rare.I read the OP a few days ago and thought he was nuts and a noob - but there is an issue here.  So apoligies there, you ahve identified an issue.I pride myself on my ability to charm and fight and have been mastering the art for a while.  There was something wrong with the mob or my pet.<div></div>

[Gammelt]

<div>The selection of your charmed pet is very important.  For example I try never to charm a pet with an AE spell.  Guaranteed to aggro something wandering by.</div><div> </div><div>Also, the second or third spell I cast is always root.  yes, I know that if I dot the mob the root has a greater chance at breaking, but if for some reason that even conned pet breaks charm I only have 1 mobs to mezz then recharm while the original mob is still rooted.</div><div> </div><div>I seldom hunt with a charmed mob in KoS .. but I always selectively choose a pet when I am harvesting.  The cool thing about that is I can continue harvesting while my pet pulls aggro off me.  I finish my harvesting od the node, cast root, back off and nuke.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Dorfls]

Thanks Gammelt, but we know how it should be done.  There is a bug here somewhere that is random and rare that causes the aggro to be unshiftable.  I am a level 66 coercer and have been charming for a long time.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Aranieq]

<div></div><div>I Have the legendary agro redux procing robe myself and have found on a few odd occations that even with a rooted AND Confounded(agro redux coercer stun) and AD3 of my agro buff on my pet that the agro is not shifting.</div><div> </div><div>Now I tend to tank all my solo mobs unless they are ^^ so I don't notice how often this is happening and when it does occur it ussually because I have overestimated my avoidance/HP just a little more than ussual and require a root to regain composure.  Or when im Jumped by a couple adds and it's time to play it right.  I'm not saying this is a sure thing, just adding that I have noticed quite a few weird agro anomallys that my experience as a coercer says I really should have been able to dump the agro and couldnt.</div>