Mystics got AOE mez? Seriously?

[Krelfeari]

<DIV>I had no idea any other class got any form of AOE mez whatsoever. I knew warlocks and other mages had some aoe spells and some fighters/scouts get some stuns attached to some attacks....and that bruiser even gets fear+mez but thats all either stun or single target CC as far as I knew.....then I was reading around researching what I would re-roll and checked mystics 50+ spells and saw this...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>Mystic 27 Quelling Spirits Mesmerizes all enemies near the mystic and reduces their hate towards the shaman. Any hostile actions taken on them will break the mesmerize effect.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>Mystic 41 Accordant Spirits Mesmerizes all enemies near the mystic and reduces their hate towards the shaman. Any hostile actions taken on them will break the mesmerize effect.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>Mystic 55 Harmonious Spirits Mesmerizes all enemies near the mystic and reduces their hate towards the shaman. Any hostile actions taken on them will break the mesmerize effect.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>This....has been here....all along? I wanna die, really I do. I also gotta wonder about its duration....they get upgrades to this as they level on....so if it has over a 15 second duration and anywhere near a less than 15 second recast timer I will go absolutely APESH!T.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I tried to find the exact figures on its cast time, duration, and recast time but the mystic forum only has vague spell descriptions stickied and nothing giving specifics. But let me be the first to say that I am seriously nutso about this......really....really nutso.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Again, please realize I'm not asking this ability be taken away from mystics, but by norrath if they can handle an AOE mez I know we should be able to handle a slightly better one since a large part of our entire class is CC.</FONT></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Krelfearius on <span class=date_text>11-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:17 AM</span>

[Nuhus]

<div></div>Thats one of those "oh [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]" spells with a long recast time.... <img src="http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/7219/untitled0ur.jpg"> And I'm sure they have all the same recast timers up the line. Alot of classes have some spells that slightly resemble others in some ways, but not near as effecient.... Nothing new. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Nuhus on <span class=date_text>11-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:58 AM</span>

[Tanit]

<div></div>OMG NO! How horrible !!!! Anyway, this is probably like the defiler version which fears, which means it's a pbae mez. Do you really think this is even remotely usefull for cc as the enchanter versions? And please stop making posts when you dont have a clue what you're talking about. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Tanith_ on <span class=date_text>11-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:01 PM</span>

[Nuhus]

Every class gets things like that... For example. <img src="http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/7523/untitled5aw.jpg"> <div></div>

[Krelfeari]

<P>actually every single healer class has some sort of pbaoe effect spell, prolly all on same timers, but they do anything from just root to mez, to pacify, to even fear.....I just couldnt find anywhere listing their timers.....thanks for posting the pic nuhus, but I think its worth mentioning that at 27 I can mez 4 mobs....regardless of the recast timer I can never keep more than 6 locked down tops......if locking down 4 is powerful, locking down with pbaoe is even more powerful and since we get psychic wail long after 27....uh....yeah....I think theirs on a 5 minute timer and them not being overpowerd seriously proves the fact that our aoe mez being 45 seconds was not overpowered.</P> <P>call me silly, but I didnt see anyone breathing a huge sigh of relief after that patch and saying "wow finally! now those darn chanters will stop owning EVERYTHING!"</P>

[Krelfeari]

<P>also I don't think u can really compare reek of fear to quelling spirits....one has a 5 min timer the other 15, one is a pbaoe mez the other is a single target proc from melee attack right? that doesnt stack up if u ask me.</P> <P>I'd also love to see if that mez the mystic gets is only a 15 second mez or if its longer.</P> <P>also, i think its defiler that gets pbaoe fear....on the same 5 minute timer i believe....which imo is much better than a fear on proc from melee damage by enemy.</P> <P>hey nuhus can u gimme a link to where u get ur spell pics or did u look the spell up on broker?</P>

[Nuhus]

<div></div><div></div><img src="http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/616/untitled6ht.jpg"> I'd say considering the recast time is shorter than the duration ours is much more powerful. Theirs is more of a hate reducer like the previous spell I posted that Coercers get at level 40. They rarely use theirs as I rarely use mine (the "oh [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]" spells.) Granted max AOE is four, but if you can consistantly keep them mezzed that can hold off alot of damage. Edited for correction. <div></div><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Nuhus on <span class=date_text>11-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:33 PM</span>

[Nuhus]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Krelfearius wrote:<p>also I don't think u can really compare reek of fear to quelling spirits....one has a 5 min timer the other 15, one is a pbaoe mez the other is a single target proc from melee attack right? that doesnt stack up if u ask me.</p> <p>I'd also love to see if that mez the mystic gets is only a 15 second mez or if its longer.</p> <p>also, i think its defiler that gets pbaoe fear....on the same 5 minute timer i believe....which imo is much better than a fear on proc from melee damage by enemy.</p> <p>hey nuhus can u gimme a link to where u get ur spell pics or did u look the spell up on broker?</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Actually, I'm a sage. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Ok, well I'll compare this.. Same timer.... <img src="http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/515/untitled1pb.jpg"></span><div></div><p>They are both almost identical, they just work in slightly different ways. </p> <p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Nuhus on <span class=date_text>11-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:07 AM</span>

[PigLick]

<span><blockquote><hr>Nuhus wrote:<div></div> Damage breaks their AOE mez. Ours does not. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Nuhus on <span class="date_text">11-27-2005</span> <span class="time_text">10:16 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Err..huh? Damage does break our AoE (encounter) mez. In fact, any damage will break any mez, but I assume you're talking about AoE damage, but that also breaks our AoE (encounter) mez. Only our single-target mez protects from AoE damage. I don't have a problem witht mystics/defilers/whoever having an emergency mez spell, so I'm not arguing that one way or another, but I did want to address that statement about our AoE (encounter) mez. PigLick</span><div></div>

[Nuhus]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>PigLickJF wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Nuhus wrote:<div></div> Damage breaks their AOE mez. Ours does not. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Nuhus on <span class="date_text">11-27-2005</span> <span class="time_text">10:16 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Err..huh? Damage does break our AoE (encounter) mez. In fact, any damage will break any mez, but I assume you're talking about AoE damage, but that also breaks our AoE (encounter) mez. Only our single-target mez protects from AoE damage. I don't have a problem witht mystics/defilers/whoever having an emergency mez spell, so I'm not arguing that one way or another, but I did want to address that statement about our AoE (encounter) mez. PigLick</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Doh! My bad.  The Mystic has a sure chance to break with any "Hostile" action and defiler has a likely chance of breaking on any "Hostile" action, I assume which means anything whatsoever will break it, or in the Defiler's case possibly break it... Sorry.</span><div></div><p>Either way, them having those emergency spells does not bother me though. <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>They are all just rarely used emergency spells. With the Coercer spell I was just pointing out we get them also, and all of them are mainly about hate reduction. </p> <p>And myself, I have a defiler, group wards and heals generate a heck of alot of aggro, I think thats why they get the shorter timers. </p> <p>And krel, you are welcome for the info, I'm sure if you asked a Mystic they could tell you, I really wish durations showed in my spellbook, but they don't. </p> <p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Nuhus on <span class=date_text>11-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:01 AM</span>

[Endraal]

Please note that the defiler fear works on epics. The coercer one doesnt. <div></div>

[Krelfeari]

<P>oh nice, see I knew we were gettin' gimped somewhere. LOVE to say I told ya so......i told ya so. </P> <P>I gotta ask too, does the root/pacify sister versions of this spell work on epics as well? I see the mez is heroic or weaker....i'd like to hear how mystics feel about their version not working but defilers fear working just fine on epics.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Krelfearius on <span class=date_text>11-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:07 AM</span>

[Nuhus]

Please note that the spells posted do not show all the detail. I'll show you the spell I have rarely  used. <img src="http://img496.imageshack.us/img496/5152/untitled3yn.jpg"> 5 meters, short duration...... All the healer classes have these (5 minute recast hate reducing spells) that work in different ways. Play a healer, see how useful it really is, thats all the advice I can give you. IMO, I don't think healers really care about those spells too much. <div></div>

[Trathe]

<P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Coming from a 54 Mystic who also plays a 38 Coercer I have to say… ZOMG nerf Mystics!!!1!!one!!!1..</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Really now.. as other have stated every priest class gets some kind of deagro spell some are root (NERF Druids!!!111!) some are fear.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The Mystics first one is a fear (in the teens) and then become a stun (not Mez) it lasts for around 3 or 4 seconds I haven’t timed it.<SPAN>  </SPAN>From what I have seen it acts like any other stun hitting the mob does not wake it but the duration of the stun real short.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Basically is it a “Oh Crap the tank can’t taunt for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and I am getting my [Removed for Content] handed to me give me time to ward/heal myself so I don’t die and cause a party wipe” spell.<SPAN>  </SPAN>It used to be on a 15minute timer but they made all priests on a 5 minute timer.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">It isn’t a AOE Mez it is a PBAoE Stun that is on a 5 minute timer.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I realize Coercers have justified complaints but this one is not one of them.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Trathe on <SPAN class=date_text>11-28-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>08:11 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Trathe on <span class=date_text>11-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:11 AM</span>

[Nuhus]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Trathe wrote:<div></div><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><b>“Oh Crap the tank can’t taunt for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and I am getting my [Removed for Content] handed to me give me time to ward/heal myself so I don’t die and cause a party wipe” spell.</b><span> </span></font></font></span></p> <hr></blockquote>lol.....  I know exactly what your talking about. Thanks for coming by and giving a Mystic's view. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span><span></span></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Nuhus on <span class=date_text>11-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:26 AM</span>

[Krelfeari]

<P>my argument is simply that regardless of the 6 seconds or the 5 meters, first off, we can't fear stun mez or silence an epic pretty much at all....even a single one...this works on all surrounding mobs.</P> <P>next, our emergency spell as u call it is on a 15 minute timer and works on 1 mob that actually hits us.</P> <P>theirs require no mob attacking them and can be casted thrice as often.</P> <P>giving another class a single ability that makes them better at CC in certain situations...specifically raids here...but not to mention that they can mez without the 4 target restriction regardless, enchanters should get some form of short cast PBAOE mez at a level its usable. </P> <P>Also, all healers never using these moves often at all just goes to show how useless CC is at all. Also, I'd like to point out that I was crafting just now and the apprentice4 of the shamans PBAOE fear gave more hate reduction than my level 31 coercers stun. The shamans fear was a lvl 13 spell. FUN FUN! </P> <P>P.S. Wards might get lotsa aggro but I bet if I cast my sybillant line along with the healers wards that I'll get aggro every time. Our procs give crazy spontaneous aggro and yet our only considerable hate decreasing ability has a 3 second cast time and works on only 1 target at a time.</P>

[Trathe]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Krelfearius wrote:<p>my argument is simply that regardless of the 6 seconds or the 5 meters, first off, we can't fear stun mez or silence an epic pretty much at all....even a single one...this works on all surrounding mobs.</p><p>next, our emergency spell as u call it is on a 15 minute timer and works on 1 mob that actually hits us.</p><p>theirs require no mob attacking them and can be casted thrice as often.</p><p>giving another class a single ability that makes them better at CC in certain situations...specifically raids here...but not to mention that they can mez without the 4 target restriction regardless, enchanters should get some form of short cast PBAOE mez at a level its usable.</p><p>Also, all healers never using these moves often at all just goes to show how useless CC is at all. Also, I'd like to point out that I was crafting just now and the apprentice4 of the shamans PBAOE fear gave more hate reduction than my level 31 coercers stun. The shamans fear was a lvl 13 spell. FUN FUN!</p><p>P.S. Wards might get lotsa aggro but I bet if I cast my sybillant line along with the healers wards that I'll get aggro every time. Our procs give crazy spontaneous aggro and yet our only considerable hate decreasing ability has a 3 second cast time and works on only 1 target at a time.</p><hr></blockquote>Psykoala,Coming from some one who has raided.  While not the biggest raiding guild on AB (your server) due to some changes lately I can tell you for sure that no one in their right mind would want to fear an epic raid mob.  You want to lock down the main mob and deal with any adds the encounter may have or choose to ignore the adds depending on the situation.  Fear does not come into that equation it is to fickel.  Stunning and rooting is another thing entirely.  But, I would like to inform you that the Mystic Stun per the description only works on heroics!  I can not be used in a raid setting.  The fear has no epic limitation in it but I for one will not want to cause a raid wipe (notice I didn't say potentially).Yes our has a faster recast time. </span><span>  Mages can control agro by watching their casting rate.  </span><span>Priest unlike mages just can't stop healing. Well unless we don't want the tank to fall and then have the mob come after us.  Mages also have the choice of having a single target deagro coercers once every 30 seconds.  While priests don't we have this one spell line (clerics have some more).  Once again it is NOT a mez.  It is a STUN.  Stuns = short duration Mez's= long duration.  If it were a 15 second duration Mez then I would say yes you have a right to complain but in this case you don't because it does not last that long.Last... I play a coercer too.. I use Haruspex and Despotic Mind as one of my forms of "DPS" if you want to call it that.  I have never had problems with agro issue for the spells and I don't even use the deagro spell Bewilder.  While with healing if the tank is not on top of their game when then the proverbial [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hits the fan I will get agro.  Sorry I just don't have your problems.  The times as a coercer I DO have agro problems is when I get a resist on a Mez after some silly fighter/rogue (rogues been getting on my nerves lately normally them) wakes the mobs.Seriously you are really barking up the wrong tree here.</span><div></div>

[Krelfeari]

<P>I'm not complaining about your guys ability being overpowered or even useful. I'm pointing out that if you can be given an emergency fear for emergency situations that does work in raids, why can't we have 1 short stun or 1 short silence that works in raids? like just 1 little thing to save the team....currently we afk with breeze going from what I've heard from most the level 60 coercers on this forum.</P> <P>also the deaggro thing, well...I am using master2 sybillant.....fighting orange ^^^ clays in RoV with a group of 2 rangers, a defiler and a templar, and an SK and myself, I could pull aggro literally whenever I wanted and I think thats pretty bad since 1 ranger was pulling then SK taunted off of ranger to tank.</P> <P>with orange ^^^ and a tank 1 level higher than me, she got sybillant procing pretty fast....like immediately fast....and if I didnt wait for the mob to be down atleast 10% I had aggro without question. It got to the point that I'd cast sybillant then my deaggro stun just incase....then I just got lazy and started waiting till deeper into the bar to start casting. </P> <P>Fighting tough mobs in a group I've always been able to get aggro....I did the same thing with sybillant master2 even in a group with a bruiser as MT down in edgewater drains. Also did it back in FG before I finally got a little too high for that place. Granted I dunno what level of taunts the tanks had, they were pickup groups, maybe they had app1 and its their fault, but in my experience I could pull aggro off of one of those sticky traps for mice if I tried.</P>

[Furrfoot]

<blockquote><hr>Tanith_ wrote:<div></div>OMG NO! How horrible !!!! Anyway, this is probably like the defiler version which fears, which means it's a pbae mez. Do you really think this is even remotely usefull for cc as the enchanter versions? And please stop making posts when you dont have a clue what you're talking about. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Tanith_ on <span class=date_text>11-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:01 PM</span><hr></blockquote>It is very very useful. In many high level groups, you don't need to do CC at all or only for short times. Our increased ability in this is totally unneeded. If we have better at all, ours beeing limited to 4 targets.To illustrate, lets exagerate. Everyone gets AOE Mez with 1 minute duration. We get AOE mez with 1 hour duration. Is this useful, and does this explain t4 DPS and no other remarkable utility that fills any role needed for this game?The fact is, many other classes get watered down versions of our spells that are just enough most of the time, and we are not needed, or due to our other capabilites beeing "balanced" for this, not even wanted.BTW, conjurers get encounter pacify+stiffle. Yes it does stop ALL damage from those mobs too, and doesn't have the 4 target limit we do.Furrfoot57 Sarcastic (Coercer)

[Krelfeari]

<P>gees Furr, ur the man....where did u get that huge fat brain cause I have been lookin' all over for one just like it and christmas is comin' up sooo......:smileytongue:</P> <P>seriously tho, good call....also, yes, you have an OH CRAP aoe cc move....but if chanters got an OH CRAP heal that healed less and was less useful than your heal....well....would that be ok?</P> <P>I hear the "BUT UR NOT A HEALER STUPID!!!! DUHHH!!" coming already, but whats ur point? Ur not a chanter but u get crappy cc? were not a healer but we get crappy heals? sound fair? no? sound stupid? yes.</P> <P>give a bruiser good stuns, mez, and fear and give a monk good stuns with stifle.....ok.....give the chanter CC.....umm...but wait....doesnt like....5 classes already have that? So what does enchanter do other than poor DPS?</P> <P>Other classes don't get a weak form of the conjurer pet. Why do u get a weak form of our CC? </P> <P>We don't get a weak version of tanks taunts, priests heals, so why do so many other classes get a taste of our unique line of spells?</P> <P>I personally think its cause CC is so weak right now that giving it to most classes doesnt really overpower them. Thus making it one classes focus underpowers said class. Giving CC to others just makes said class feel like someone kicked him in the crotch. For lack of a better term.</P>

[NighthawkX]

<P>I have a coercer, and a defiler and all I can say is you have to be joking complaining about this spell.  First off 5meters is melee range only, you have to be right next to it.  5 minute timer and short duration if you are jealous of that I just don't know what to say. I have not once ever seen or heard of a defiler on a raid running into the epic to use this spell.</P> <P> </P> <P>As for you getting a heal sure we will give you a group heal on a 5 minute timer that heals for 50 damage, and than you can brag about how awesome a healer you are.  If this is something your willing to get in a fret about you will never be happy.</P> <p>Message Edited by NighthawkX on <span class=date_text>12-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:57 AM</span>

[Krelfeari]

<P>ur missing the point, its not that I want a heal for us, that was an example to show you how wrong this move is.</P> <P>Your all here saying its useless and nobody uses it. Well I don't see any of the healer forums asking for these spells to be changed to removed or traded for a new ability. But I see lots of enchanters asking for nearly useless spells to be changed.</P> <P>Also, so it is a melee range fear thats on a 5 minute timer with short duration eh?</P> <P>CC subclass coercer. Our fear doesnt go off til we get hit (melee range) and then only affects 1 enemy and has a 15 minute recast timer. Oh, and doesnt effect epic.</P> <P>Now you honestly ask me if we would trade in our little fear there for urs? Every coercer and their uncle will say yes. Hands down. Its a NO BRAINER.</P> <P>So, why do healers have a cc ability better (works on epic) than us? Its like giving us another classes niche equivelant. Its insulting to the CC class that another classes abilities can work on epics for one, and that they can perfrom what were meant to do. Nobody gets a chanter for CC as is, so why further weaken our purpose by giving so many other classes CC?</P> <P>I would think you would have an OH CRAP heal instead of OH CRAP cc.....thats kinda our department.....</P> <P>I don't care if u don't use the spell, I don't care if its useful or not. Currently our stuns, silences, fears, NONE work on epic TO ANY degree. Even if you have one that works on them like crap, thats MORE than NONE.</P> <P>To say that aoe fear is a healer spell when the cc classes of the game...I mean heck I gotta wait til really high levels to get PW and its OUR pbaoe crowd controller. Your fear could theoretically instantly fear 8 mobs and save the group. An illusionist couldnt. Neither could a coercer. If in that situation your cc is better then give us a situation, maybe identical one, where we have better heals? No, thats dumb. Doesnt make sense and doesnt fit class roles.</P> <P>u guys get aoe fear WITH deaggro in the teens to match my nearly level 30 stuns deaggro. Again, deaggro, not a healers traditional role and not once mentioned in their class descritption...weird....but urs also works on multiple targets at a lower level...u get this move in the teens I wait til 20's to get my aoe mez and it has a target limit!</P> <P>Really, guys, seriously....and its not even just you, too many classes have CC and thats part of what makes enchanters less needed. If we were the only class that could stop an adds damage instead of letting more than half the classes in the game do it...maybe we might be more wanted in groups for the ability to do so.</P> <P>Granted CC still doesnt compare to damage, there are a few places it comes in handy but now a chanter isnt needed for those cause a group with a necro, a bruiser off tank, a ranger, a conjurer...whatever mt u want and name any healer...heck that group could lock the mobs down for nearly as long as they want and all of them put out more dps than the enchanter except for maybe the healer.</P> <P>explain to me the balance in that. PLEASE.</P>

[Trathe]

<DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#000000> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Krel… you are missing the point to.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I play a Coercer and I play a mystic I see both sides of the equation.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>First your complaint was Mystics and mez (which was pointed out to you it isn’t) then it’s fear.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I in no way shape or form will try to use my mid teen PBAoE fear spell because it will be resisted in a heart beat.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Resists is based on level and grade of the spell and the level of the caster vs the level of the mob.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Else you could be using your MII fascinate in the 30’s reliably.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Now that leaves the Defiler PBAoE fear.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Which again fear is not a good form of CC in any shape or form.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>If you are worried about healers have CC go to templars they hate their semi mez like abilities and don’t count it as utility(wait did I say mez?).</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>I didn’t I say I don’t use it.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I do.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Do I use (Mystics PBAoE stun vs non epics) it offensively in a CC capacity?<SPAN>  </SPAN>I think I can count it on my hands <SPAN> </SPAN>once or twice since I got in LU13.  Why?  Because it is on a 5 minute timer.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Should the Defiler work on Epics probably not.. does it?<SPAN>  </SPAN>I am not sure.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Plus I am for one NOT going to try and find out since fearing an Epic (read RAID Mob) goes against most tenets for raiding you are trying to Lock Down the raid mob not cause it to run like a little school girl.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Plus it is totally unpredictable, well at least how it works in EQII.<SPAN>  </SPAN>In EQLive fear was a bit more predictable when I played BUT still unpredictable then, I used to fear kite mobs w/ a necro, enchanter and me a shaman in EQlive pre SoL.<SPAN>  </SPAN>In EQII Fear is even more so unpredictable.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Your concept of CC (Crowd Control) is different than mine in Fear there is NO CONTROL over where the mob goes!<SPAN>  </SPAN>It could go running off into a wall, off into another pack of mobs, or just break almost immediately.<SPAN>  </SPAN>That is not control that chaos.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Do you realize that an OH CRAP heal would entail… MORE AGGRO? <SPAN> </SPAN>You probably didn’t because that is what it did before and it worked like crap.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Heals = Aggro</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Deaggro not being a healers role… okay… take away all those scouts agro shunts as well Krel ya can’t have them being able to control their agro too.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Wait! They have stuns and Mez’s too take that away… They have fear too!<SPAN>  </SPAN>Noooo tell me it ain’t so!<SPAN>  </SPAN>Boy those scouts are weird!!!<SPAN>  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Any good group with the right healing and good tank can take on multiple encounters, and your theoretical 8 mob encounter.  That is your problem Krel CC is not King like it was in EQLive.<SPAN>  </SPAN>If CC isn’t needed as much, there still is a need in situations just not as much as EQLive.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>I am now wondering if you are that kind of enchanter that Mez’s one of the 4 mobs pulled from a Linked encounter and screams when the tank or some one else wakes it.<SPAN>  </SPAN>That linked group encounter is meant for a group of 3 to be able to deal with it there is no need to mez it.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>There is only 3 things that are needed really in game… DPS, Healing and Tanking.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Asking form more CC will not help you in any shape or form.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Since you have mentioned in other posts that you played EQLive then you know that Bards had charm and mez, necros had fear, all priests had root, some preists had stuns, boy I could go on about classes having skills that were utilized by enchanters.<SPAN>  </SPAN>It isn’t that other classes have some of the skills of enchanters.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Which they do, granted thay can’t not use them nearly as in a constant state of use as a enchanter (coercer/illusionist).<SPAN>  </SPAN>The problem is that the _need_ for CC is much much less than it was in EQLive.</FONT></SPAN> Bards had Mez and Charm in <SPAN> </SPAN>EQLive too (at least when I last played).</SPAN></P></FONT></DIV>

[Krelfeari]

<P>Umm...I dunno how ur dissagreeing....summarizing what I said is "chanter cc is crap and not needed"</P> <P>You said....chanter cc is crap and not needed.</P> <P>also, yeah in EQ1 other classes had CC but chanters had the best. CC was useful in eq1 tho so enchanters were useful. In eq2 cc is not useful so enchanters are not so useful.</P> <P>I suggested that if so many other classes didnt have CC, it might become more sought after. This makes sense to me. Lower supply to increase demand. Sure its not a perfect sollution but it would be a fast fix.</P> <DIV>Replace all the other classes CC spells with more unique abilities. Nothing about a bruisers description of being a brutal fighter makes me think they could mez or fear something to crowd control. Nothing about a healer seems scary enough to make me scared. These cc abilities could be replaced by new, more unique spells to add more favor to classes and by doing so, add flavor to the chanter by giving him the dominant cc position.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I played a chanter to level 24 in eq1.....its not like I was hardcore or anything....I said I played it....I was an alt aholic and made nearly every class to level 15+ but thats hardly an experience in the game as a whole. I usually got tired of a class right after finishing my beginner AQ's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, finally, I know darn well I use my de aggro ratonga trait ALL THE TIME and its on a 30 minute timer and currently drops hate by 900 I think. So to have a 5 minute timer spell that dropped nearly as much aggro AND feared/rooted/stunned or any of the other after effects of this line of spells that other healers have, would be absolutely great imo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And sorry for mixing up mystics with the aoe mez....thats what the spell description says at the eq2 class spell lists....but a lot of spells in the game toss around the terms stun and mez even in the same spell description.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I never said to take away healers and scouts abilities to manage their aggro, but believe me, coercer procs can pull aggro off just about anything, especially if what ur fighting has any aoe attacks. You prolly know this, especially if you took master2 sybillant at 24. Given that our damage is proc based and one of the most unpredictable and burst-proned damage types in the game, combined with the fact that were an enchanter subclass...well, yeah I think I should get a spell that deaggros for atleast as much as a healer, even if its on a 5 minute timer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Call me crazy here, but I don't see anyone at the mystic forum complaining....and I see a lot of coercers complaining....granted their not all mad about mystics aoe fear or healers aoe cc, but they are definitely mad about enchanters lack of usefulness through cc. I didnt see any mystic posts with lots of mystics talking about how their primary or secondary role was not important to groups. Also, nowhere near as many classes have heals as classes that have CC.</DIV>

[Furrfoot]

<blockquote><hr>Krelfearius wrote:<P>gees Furr, ur the man....where did u get that huge fat brain cause I have been lookin' all over for one just like it and christmas is comin' up sooo......:smileytongue:</P> <P>seriously tho, good call....also, yes, you have an OH CRAP aoe cc move....but if chanters got an OH CRAP heal that healed less and was less useful than your heal....well....would that be ok?</P> <P>I hear the "BUT UR NOT A HEALER STUPID!!!! DUHHH!!" coming already, but whats ur point? Ur not a chanter but u get crappy cc? were not a healer but we get crappy heals? sound fair? no? sound stupid? yes.</P><hr></blockquote>You sound confused. You do realize I am a Coercer, and not a Mystic, and I am complaining, do you Krel? My point is, sure Mystics and everyone else's CC abilities are far inferior to ours, but they are enough most of the time, and a group of 6 can alternate them to overcome long reuse timers. And *that*'s the real problem, our superior abilities are not needed due to game mechanics, yet this is our primary focus.To exegarate again, if you gave everyone the half healing power of current healers, and doubled current healers' healing powers for them, still almost noone would need a healer because that amount of healing would simply not be needed (except for some raids maybe, but I doubt that).Likewise we are useful too seldom.Furrfoot60 Bored (Coercer)