Opinion of a casual gamer. Need some experimented advises [Archive]

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ppRaistlin

09-23-2005, 01:30 PM

I mean yes..real casual gamer.. the proof ? I just tested yesterday night the combat changes lol.Lvl 29 here with combat XP disabled since the begining. So you can think on how long it takes for me to do a lvl.Well I have enjoyed my coercer before patch. Never done easy fights always trying to walk on the edge of the razor with my duo friend. Challenging is more important for me than efficacity. We have been able to retry the very hard combat 10 ou 15 times until we won, where the success may depend on one successful spell. Well it s our way of playing and the way we enjoy.And there is the patch. Now orange ++ and named red has turn to yellow ++ and white ++ but i don t care. The challenge has to be here so our fun will be here to.But...well i have the feeling (after a 3 hours game) that ,even if the gameplay is more interesting with all this news spells and effects, conccentration slot managing ect.., we have lost a lot a of reliability in crowd controling and other things.I will perhaps say idiotic things because i have never been a hardcore mathematic gamer (you know many words posted to calculate % effeciency in everything). So forgive me if my feelings are offending or completly wrong.But i need to know some things :1) With shortest mez and root on the same timer and even with charm and a more reliable AE Mez and root , do we not have lost a little crowd control capability ? I mean before the patch i was able to control group of 8 yellow and now ( i m not yet experimented with the new feature) i can barely control 5 foes. Well it does nt hurt me but i just want the opinion of experimented ones ?2) I have the feeling (remember i dont know the exact numbers) that our mana regen capability has been greatly reduced with breeze with little effect and Consume Ego and Essence fluctuation on the same timer ? is this feeling reality ?3) Charm : i know it has been discussed several times but i m in my office and my boss is lurking aroung. I can t mez him dont i dont have the time to read old post. My first feeling is that it s not very reliable. Well i can do with that. But i have read somewhere that + and ++ mob power and mana pool are reduced when charmed. Is it true ? what the other negative effect a charm has on + and ++ mob ? So is it really interesting to charm + and ++ mob ? ( i already know the effect of charm spell lvl on mob spell lvl)Well i hope, i have not been to hard to read. English is not my natural langageThanks in advance for your answersFarewell CoercersMessage Edited by ppRaistlin on 09-23-2005 02:33 AM

Dystr

09-23-2005, 08:07 PM

<blockquote><hr>ppRaistlin wrote: . . . But i need to know some things :1) With shortest mez and root on the same timer and even with charm and a more reliable AE Mez and root , do we not have lost a little crowd control capability ? I mean before the patch i was able to control group of 8 yellow and now ( i m not yet experimented with the new feature) i can barely control 5 foes. Well it does nt hurt me but i just want the opinion of experimented ones ?2) I have the feeling (remember i dont know the exact numbers) that our mana regen capability has been greatly reduced with breeze with little effect and Consume Ego and Essence fluctuation on the same timer ? is this feeling reality ?3) Charm : i know it has been discussed several times but i m in my office and my boss is lurking aroung. I can t mez him dont i dont have the time to read old post. My first feeling is that it s not very reliable. Well i can do with that. But i have read somewhere that + and ++ mob power and mana pool are reduced when charmed. Is it true ? what the other negative effect a charm has on + and ++ mob ? So is it really interesting to charm + and ++ mob ? ( i already know the effect of charm spell lvl on mob spell lvl)Well i hope, i have not been to hard to read. English is not my natural langageThanks in advance for your answersFarewell CoercersMessage Edited by ppRaistlin on 09-23-2005 02:33 AM<hr></blockquote> 1. Actually our crowd control abilities are much better. Mez has a shorter recast timer - old: 8 seconds new: 6 seconds - and a shorter cast timer - old: 2 seconds, new: 1.5 seconds. Tihs allows us to mez more mobs faster. AOE mez can now be chain casted on at least 2 whole groups. I have controlled 2 groups of 4 and 5 single ^^^ adds - thats 13. 2. Power regen was indeed lowered, but power costs were too in general. I agree it sucks to lose consume ego. 3. charm is pretty much a useless spell in my opinion. ^, ^^, and ^^^ mobs can be charmed, but they become just like summoner pets - a solo con version of themselves. their power and health are reduced while charmed, but goes back to normal when charm breaks. its just not worth it.

ppRaistlin

09-23-2005, 09:33 PM

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dystrax wrote: 1. Actually our crowd control abilities are much better. Mez has a shorter recast timer - old: 8 seconds new: 6 seconds - and a shorter cast timer - old: 2 seconds, new: 1.5 seconds. Tihs allows us to mez more mobs faster. AOE mez can now be chain casted on at least 2 whole groups. I have controlled 2 groups of 4 and 5 single ^^^ adds - thats 13. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Well good job Dystrax ... it may be that i have some old reflex that i have to banish and learn new lessons <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I am lvl 29 and each big encounter we have (i only duo) begins with a Terrible Awe then my good old Mezmerize and Fascinate did their jobs. Well with terrible awe now "unlocked" i have to learn the new way <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. In term of reliability what can you say between the old single mez and the new one ? <HR> Dystrax wrote: 3. charm is pretty much a useless spell in my opinion. ^, ^^, and ^^^ mobs can be charmed, but they become just like summoner pets - a solo con version of themselves. their power and health are reduced while charmed, but goes back to normal when charm breaks. its just not worth it. <HR> I can barely believe that the delevopment and testing team of sony have not seen that the behaviour of charm implies that charming ^ , ^^ and ^^^ means nothing...I dont know but i so evident that something else must hide here. Anyways thanks for your response Dystrax </DIV>

Oneira

09-23-2005, 09:42 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ppRaistlin wrote: <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dystrax wrote: 1. Actually our crowd control abilities are much better. Mez has a shorter recast timer - old: 8 seconds new: 6 seconds - and a shorter cast timer - old: 2 seconds, new: 1.5 seconds. Tihs allows us to mez more mobs faster. AOE mez can now be chain casted on at least 2 whole groups. I have controlled 2 groups of 4 and 5 single ^^^ adds - thats 13. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Well good job Dystrax ... it may be that i have some old reflex that i have to banish and learn new lessons <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I am lvl 29 and each big encounter we have (i only duo) begins with a Terrible Awe then my good old Mezmerize and Fascinate did their jobs. Well with terrible awe now "unlocked" i have to learn the new way <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. In term of reliability what can you say between the old single mez and the new one ? <HR> Dystrax wrote: 3. charm is pretty much a useless spell in my opinion. ^, ^^, and ^^^ mobs can be charmed, but they become just like summoner pets - a solo con version of themselves. their power and health are reduced while charmed, but goes back to normal when charm breaks. its just not worth it. <HR> I can barely believe that the delevopment and testing team of sony have not seen that the behaviour of charm implies that charming ^ , ^^ and ^^^ means nothing...I dont know but i so evident that something else must hide here. Anyways thanks for your response Dystrax </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Charm isn't useless I don't think but i can't see casting it on ^^ and ^^^ mobs....too risky. Charm is a solo skill, and based on the suggestions of others on this board so far, it's still better to send a pet in to attack and keep the mob busy while you cast spells on it. And like one poster suggested and which I tried out and like very much, if you let your charmed pet get beaten up pretty good, don't let it die, just release it and kill it. Easy xp.

PigLick

09-23-2005, 10:14 PM

<blockquote><hr>ppRaistlin wrote:<div> Well good job Dystrax ... it may be that i have some old reflex that i have to banish and learn new lessons <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I am lvl 29 and each big encounter we have (i only duo) begins with a Terrible Awe then my good old Mezmerize and Fascinate did their jobs. Well with terrible awe now "unlocked" i have to learn the new way <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. In term of reliability what can you say between the old single mez and the new one ? <hr>I can barely believe that the delevopment and testing team of sony have not seen that the behaviour of charm implies that charming ^ , ^^ and ^^^ means nothing...I dont know but i so evident that something else must hide here. Anyways thanks for your response Dystrax</div><hr></blockquote>Well, part of the problem with the changes to the mezes is that you were in one of those "sweet spots" we had pre-revamp. Due to the level restrictions on mez and the level at which they were assigned, there were a few spans of levels where you did have two effective single mezzes. Since all single mezzes are on the same timer now, that's not possible anymore, so to you it seems liek we lost some capacity. However, in a few levels you'd have found that your lower level mez would no longer have been an effective tool and would have been left with only one single mez. So while in those certain "sweet spot" level ranges we actually have lost a bit of mezzing, for the majority of our levels we have, as Dystrax pointed out, actually improved. As for the charming thing, it's not some sort of oversight, it was intentionally made that way. I don't completely agree with it, nor do I know of any other coercers who do, but it's not a matter of the devs/testers just "missing" it. Orinignally you couldn't even charm mobs with any up-arrows, but the testers rightfully pointed out that it was then too hard to find mobs to charm in many areas. So, they changed it so that we could charm up-arrows, but they felt it was too powerful for them to retain their full strength, so they made it into the current state of things. Unfortunately they never came to realize (or didn't care) that this leaves us in a ridiculous risk vs reward scenario where we take on incredible risk and get no real reward for doing it, which combined with the already dubiously short average charm durations, just makes it not at all useful or worthwhile to try charming up-arrows. PigLick<div></div>

AdiX__Styxx__

09-24-2005, 08:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ppRaistlin wrote: Well I have enjoyed my coercer before patch. Never done easy fights always trying to walk on the edge of the razor with my duo friend. Challenging is more important for me than efficacity. We have been able to retry the very hard combat 10 ou 15 times until we won, where the success may depend on one successful spell. Well it s our way of playing and the way we enjoy. I agree i play like this too altough i am lvl 52 coercer now! But...well i have the feeling (after a 3 hours game) that ,even if the gameplay is more interesting with all this news spells and effects, conccentration slot managing ect.., we have lost a lot a of reliability in crowd controling and other things. agreed wihta previous post its much better now! I will perhaps say idiotic things because i have never been a hardcore mathematic gamer (you know many words posted to calculate % effeciency in everything). So forgive me if my feelings are offending or completly wrong. dont worry you can take piglicks job then! But i need to know some things : 1) With shortest mez and root on the same timer and even with charm and a more reliable AE Mez and root , do we not have lost a little crowd control capability ? I mean before the patch i was able to control group of 8 yellow and now ( i m not yet experimented with the new feature) i can barely control 5 foes. Well it does nt hurt me but i just want the opinion of experimented ones ? pretty good controlling 8 yellow mobs pre patch! were they all linked? or just adds if they were adds it is les impressive if they were linked tehn you might become a really good coercer when ya reach teh end game! Post patch ya can do the same tho 8 linked mobs (are ussually down arrowed) but still. Charm a pet make him pull and take the first beating for ya then pick the mob to the left side of the group running after yer pet or the right side whtever makes yer boat rock then use aoe mezz the 4 mobs from left to right will be mezzed. now cast single mezz on teh fifth mob (they still beating yer pet if ya picked a HP one) 3 mobs to go pet shuld be near dead root # 6 then 7/8 will be coming for ya yer group mezz should have poped by now cast it on the last two mobs! Max hits ya should have taken is around three maybe 4 if yer solo this is acceptable now just finish them off one at a time or make em fight eachoter etc whatever ya prefer doign or makes ya laugh! i like to charm one and make a trol outta him and make him fight! haha 2) I have the feeling (remember i dont know the exact numbers) that our mana regen capability has been greatly reduced with breeze with little effect and Consume Ego and Essence fluctuation on the same timer ? is this feeling reality ? noone really cares about that! 3) Charm : i know it has been discussed several times but i m in my office and my boss is lurking aroung. I can t mez him dont i dont have the time to read old post. My first feeling is that it s not very reliable. Well i can do with that. But i have read somewhere that + and ++ mob power and mana pool are reduced when charmed. Is it true ? what the other negative effect a charm has on + and ++ mob ? So is it really interesting to charm + and ++ mob ? ( i already know the effect of charm spell lvl on mob spell lvl) experiment with it i made a nice soloing thread about the new coercer ya should check it out i use charm all the time and well my ratio on dying while using it is like 95% so 5% deaths thast quite good i made it ad 3 tho upgrade it asap! Well i hope, i have not been to hard to read. English is not my natural langage Thanks in advance for your answers Farewell Coercers Message Edited by ppRaistlin on 09-23-200502:33 AM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Gl buddy take care

ppRaistlin

09-24-2005, 02:35 PM

<HR> AdiX__Styxx__ wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ppRaistlin wrote: Well I have enjoyed my coercer before patch. Never done easy fights always trying to walk on the edge of the razor with my duo friend. Challenging is more important for me than efficacity. We have been able to retry the very hard combat 10 ou 15 times until we won, where the success may depend on one successful spell. Well it s our way of playing and the way we enjoy. I agree i play like this too altough i am lvl 52 coercer now! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I think that my two childrens will have 6 years when i reach this lvl and EQ 5 will be on the go <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />..but why not <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <HR> AdiX__Styxx__ wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ppRaistlin wrote: 1) With shortest mez and root on the same timer and even with charm and a more reliable AE Mez and root , do we not have lost a little crowd control capability ? I mean before the patch i was able to control group of 8 yellow and now ( i m not yet experimented with the new feature) i can barely control 5 foes. Well it does nt hurt me but i just want the opinion of experimented ones ? pretty good controlling 8 yellow mobs pre patch! were they all linked? or just adds if they were adds it is les impressive if they were linked tehn you might become a really good coercer when ya reach teh end game! Post patch ya can do the same tho 8 linked mobs (are ussually down arrowed) but still. Charm a pet make him pull and take the first beating for ya then pick the mob to the left side of the group running after yer pet or the right side whtever makes yer boat rock then use aoe mezz the 4 mobs from left to right will be mezzed. now cast single mezz on teh fifth mob (they still beating yer pet if ya picked a HP one) 3 mobs to go pet shuld be near dead root # 6 then 7/8 will be coming for ya yer group mezz should have poped by now cast it on the last two mobs! Max hits ya should have taken is around three maybe 4 if yer solo this is acceptable now just finish them off one at a time or make em fight eachoter etc whatever ya prefer doign or makes ya laugh! i like to charm one and make a trol outta him and make him fight! haha <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> Well the 8 controling mob situation comes from 2 adds 3 +3 + 2 original. But you re right there is no real proud because I have had 3 mez to do taht (Terrible Awe + the 2 single mez).(I am a fervent adept of Terrible Awe pre patch so do i from the great Blink misunderstood spell by the way at leas in duo mode). It s why i feel a ittle lost actually. Anyway i will train and study your technic <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Thanks <HR> AdiX__Styxx__ wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ppRaistlin wrote: 2) I have the feeling (remember i dont know the exact numbers) that our mana regen capability has been greatly reduced with breeze with little effect and Consume Ego and Essence fluctuation on the same timer ? is this feeling reality ? noone really cares about that! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Well i do care in fact. Because when fighting (duo mode with lvl 29 inqusitor) a named red +6 or 7 lvl above you, it s very useful to break combat with mez, resplenish mana with consume ego and essebce fluctuation and a good heal over time. With 3 or 4 mez your mana pool is full again. And you have a small chance to win. I have tried this beloved technic post patch with a group of two yellow ^^ and unlucky for us i have been unable to resplenish efficiently <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I guess i have to find something else... By the way it s very fun to play in duo mode wih inquisitor. You know, not very dps efficient but it s like playing magic the gathering with blue and white. You always have a chance to overcome a situation even a desesperate one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <HR> AdiX__Styxx__ wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ppRaistlin wrote: 3) Charm : i know it has been discussed several times but i m in my office and my boss is lurking aroung. I can t mez him dont i dont have the time to read old post. My first feeling is that it s not very reliable. Well i can do with that. But i have read somewhere that + and ++ mob power and mana pool are reduced when charmed. Is it true ? what the other negative effect a charm has on + and ++ mob ? So is it really interesting to charm + and ++ mob ? ( i already know the effect of charm spell lvl on mob spell lvl) experiment with it i made a nice soloing thread about the new coercer ya should check it out i use charm all the time and well my ratio on dying while using it is like 95% so 5% deaths thast quite good i made it ad 3 tho upgrade it asap! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I think it s the way i ll go. Charming has always been my favourite part a mmorpg games <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. But i feel that something need to be twinked on charm. I agree to decrease ^^ to normal ones but a way to increase the risk vs reward will be to made the charm use 2 concentrary slot for us coercer. Ther er will be more risk but infinitly more reward... ah yes one last thing i have think about since the new patch. Perhaps this has been already suggested but, what do you think about that : What if intelligence increased the number of concentration slot ? That sound like real effect on spending money to tweak int.I am not a great fervent int actual effect.

AdiX__Styxx__

09-24-2005, 08:08 PM

<DIV>Regen aka breeze was way overpowered at 50 i would regen 60 per click jsut by having breeze up i neer ran oop if i spammed Besklors and torment ! So it doesnt really matter yer inq still gets the clicks for power just a lil less and her / his spells should be costing less mana now so it evens out in the end! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And for duoing i dont like duoing wiht healers they jsut get in my way! /sigh i prefer duoing with a ranger / assasin or a wizz / warlock type necro and summoners are great for duo aswell!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But then i like odd groups wihtout a safety nett (healers) even took down a couple of named mobs way out of our league wihtout healers and wihtout tanks communication between players is what i love and it makes ya do amazin stuff!</DIV>

Dystr

09-25-2005, 08:44 PM

imo theres no difference in our power regen from pre patch. chain pulled cyclops for about 3 hours last night. with clarity, mindseye, and devouring thoughts going all the time no one in my group ever went below 60% power except the tank who almost hit 30% power once. When mindseye dropped a couple times i noticed a slight difference, but not much. Clarity is still an uber powerful spell. <div></div>

PigLick

09-26-2005, 06:07 AM

Yah, it definitely makes a significant difference. I don't have Mind's Eye yet, but there have been a few times in groups where I've gotten lazy and not used Devouring and I noticed a difference in the grou's power levels. I also accidentally dropped Refresh while in a group once and didn't notice right away and there was a significant difference. PigLick <div></div>