Low Level Coercers are . . . ?

[Oneira]

<DIV>Abysmal at soloing.  Or else I'm just incompetent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Soloing 22 nerius pirates and crabs on Nek beach as a lvl 22 coercer.  straight no-arrow individual mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. charm blue mob (ferocious crab)  one lev less than me in the hopes that it will decrease resists and breaks.</DIV> <DIV>2. send charmed pet after 22 solo mob.</DIV> <DIV>3. start HO, finish HO.  </DIV> <DIV>4. Root mob</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Result?  multiple deaths.  Why?  </DIV> <DIV>1. charmed pet breaks coerce approximately 50% of the time before the combat is half over.  So what do I do?  Quicktly root the enemy mob and hope it isn't resisted.  If it is, I'm dead.  Then stun my pet to give me a chance to recast.  Cast coerce again.  By this time my health is at 25%, and if i'm lucky, nothing is resisted and I'm back on track.  </DIV> <DIV>2. DPS.  There's just nothing there.  I can't possibly do enough damage over time to take down the first mob anytime soon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My conclusion is that right now, as a 20's coercer, I can't solo squat.   I am not a viable soloing class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adding to the misery is the fact that most or all of the new spells have no upgrades atm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[PigLick]

The way you're doing it isn't pro-active enough and takes way too long once the charm has already broken. Root the mob first thing- damage doesn't break our roots anymore, and with the durations and recasts the way they are you can easily keep a mob perma-rooted, especially when you add in the root/nuke spell line (ego shock/blast, etc). That way you don't have to spend precious time rooting it after your pet breaks. Stay at your max casting range from the pet and mob, and keep your pet targetted (remember hostile spells you cast will hit your pet's target if you have your pet targeted). When the charm breaks, you have your pet (now ex-pet) already targeted, so just immediately cast mez, not stun. Stun cast times are way too long. If you have good reaction times, you'll have your pet mezed before it even gets to you, or at least before it gets more than a couple hits in. Since the other mob is still rooted, they're both  locked down within 1-2 seconds of the break, and you've taken little to no damage. Now just recharm and repeat. Alternatively, if both mobs are low enough, you can just finish them both off with root/nuke. If your pet has been dotted mez will obviously break which is the only downside of this method. However, the mez will usually at least buy you a few seconds, if a dot breaks it you'll have to rely on root (first choice) or a stun as a last resort if root isn't available (or start with one of those if you know your pet is dotted, but it's usually tough to tell if they are). If you continue to have too much trouble with charming (it is a learned skill and it's not easy), consider just root-nuking. It's safer but probably slower. Just root a mob , then lay on your dots, nukes/HOs, etc, making sure it stays rooted. Experiment with the most efficient order to cast your spells in to maximize dps, HOs, etc. Lastly, if you haven't upgraded your spells, look into it. It can be expensive and they're not always easy to find, but check the broker every time you go to town. Upgrades make a big difference, especially on your nukes and other key spells. PigLick <div></div>

[Oneira]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PigLickJF wrote:<BR>The way you're doing it isn't pro-active enough and takes way too long once the charm has already broken. Root the mob first thing- damage doesn't break our roots anymore, and with the durations and recasts the way they are you can easily keep a mob perma-rooted, especially when you add in the root/nuke spell line (ego shock/blast, etc). That way you don't have to spend precious time rooting it after your pet breaks. Stay at your max casting range from the pet and mob, and keep your pet targetted (remember hostile spells you cast will hit your pet's target if you have your pet targeted). When the charm breaks, you have your pet (now ex-pet) already targeted, so just immediately cast mez, not stun. Stun cast times are way too long. If you have good reaction times, you'll have your pet mezed before it even gets to you, or at least before it gets more than a couple hits in. Since the other mob is still rooted, they're both  locked down within 1-2 seconds of the break, and you've taken little to no damage. Now just recharm and repeat. Alternatively, if both mobs are low enough, you can just finish them both off with root/nuke.<BR><BR>If your pet has been dotted mez will obviously break which is the only downside of this method. However, the mez will usually at least buy you a few seconds, if a dot breaks it you'll have to rely on root (first choice) or a stun as a last resort if root isn't available (or start with one of those if you know your pet is dotted, but it's usually tough to tell if they are).<BR><BR>If you continue to have too much trouble with charming (it is a learned skill and it's not easy), consider just root-nuking. It's safer but probably slower. Just root a mob , then lay on your dots, nukes/HOs, etc, making sure it stays rooted. Experiment with the most efficient order to cast your spells in to maximize dps, HOs, etc.<BR><BR>Lastly, if you haven't upgraded your spells, look into it. It can be expensive and they're not always easy to find, but check the broker every time you go to town. Upgrades make a big difference, especially on your nukes and other key spells.<BR><BR>PigLick<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I didn't realize that damage doesn't break our roots anymore.  That would really make for a big change in tactics!</P> <P> </P> <P>The problem with spell upgrades right now is that the new spells, like Coerce, are simply not available.  I can't even get an app II version from guys in NFP.   I have heard that Sages are complaining about not having the new spells in their books at all. . .I assuming that will change. . . i just pray it's soon. <BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Oneira on <span class=date_text>09-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:29 AM</span>

[PigLick]

<span><blockquote><hr>Oneira wrote:<div>I didn't realize that damage doesn't break our roots anymore.  That would really make for a big change in tactics!</div> <p>The problem with spell upgrades right now is that the new spells, like Coerce, are simply not available.  I can't even get an app II version from guys in NFP.   I have heard that Sages are complaining about not having the new spells in their books at all. . .I assuming that will change. . . i just pray it's soon. </p> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Oneira on <span class="date_text">09-22-2005</span> <span class="time_text">09:29 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>As far as roots, let me expand, I don't want you blaming me if anything goes wrong, hehe. There are two types of roots now, those that have a chance to break on damage, and those that have a chance to break randomly (or periodically). Our roots are the second type, so no amount of dsamage will cause them to break early. However, that doesn't mean they always last their full duration. They can (and will) sometimes break early with no warning, so you still have to watch out for that. Usually if you've been nuking, dotting, etc you'll be on top of the mob's hate list, so if root breaks prematurely it'll ignore your pet and make a beeline for you. Just wanted to make sure I clarified that so you wouldn't think root is completely reliable and risk-free, hehe. Still, early breaks are pretty infrequent and since root has a decent recast time and we also have our root/nuke line, it's usually not a problem to keep a mob perma-rooted. For example, with an Adept I root I was able to keep ^^^ mobs 5 levels higher than me perma-rooted the other night while myself and the warlock and inquisitor I was grouped with nuked them down. We killed about a half dozen of them like that and none of us ever even got touched by one, so while the roots aren't perfect, they're pretty darn reliable if you pay attention. As for upgrades, it's true you may not be able to find an upgrade for your charms (although I know I got an AppII of one of them off of an NPC vendor on test, don't remember which spell it was though), but the rest you will. Like I said, check the vendors (they may even have upgrades for charm). If you already have most or all of your spells (or the key ones at least) upgraded then this is obviously not necessary, but I figured I'd throw it in there because upgrades do make a pretty big difference. PigLick</span><div></div>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<P>the spells are in the books! i got adept 3 dominate today made hell of an upgrade from appr 1 with a average of 2 min duration b4 break it went up to 4/5 min still testing!</P> <P> </P> <P>btw piglick great answere to his Q's just add in that he should just let his pet die during the fight its only there to make the procs for damage happen altough not sure if ya got yer sybelant line at that lvl yet!</P>

[Belaythien]

In my experience at level 26 anything higher than a green or very low blue pet is more of a handicap than a help. At level 26 I usually don't use pets above 22 as it would break in almost every othe fight. Coercer pets can't tank mobs (weak or break often, hardly any aggro) so it doesn't really matter if they are smaller. They aren't much of a help anyway. As far as I can tell their only use is to give the rooted mob someone to hit so sibyllant can proc (Level 23 spell if I remember correctly). Our pets are basically a very very very very ... very weak DOT that can turn on you. Usually you are better off without a pet as the risk-reward ratio is too bad. Either your charm will break every minute or so or your pet is so weak that it hardly hits your target and if it does the damage is neglectable. Just concentrate on rooting the enemy and forget the pet. It's more like a fun spell than a real use. As for spells .. sages can make them. I got a coerce app4 a few days ago. I still wonder how big the advantage from app1 to app4 really is. There was no noticable lower resist rate from app1 to app4. <div></div>

[PigLick]

<span><blockquote><hr>AdiX__Styxx__ wrote:<div></div> <p>btw piglick great answere to his Q's just add in that he should just let his pet die during the fight its only there to make the procs for damage happen altough not sure if ya got yer sybelant line at that lvl yet!</p><hr></blockquote>Nah, I don't agree with that so I wouldn't add it in. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> For one thing, as you said, he doesn't have Syb yet at that level (as far as I remember, at least). Furthermore, it's wasteful to let the pet die. Better to keep it just barely alive so you can finish it off yourself and get some easy xp. That's my normal mode of operation and it works great. I don't thik of charmed pets as long-term helpers I'm going to keep around. I charm them, let them get their butt chewed while helping me kill their buddies, then turn on them when they're weakened and finish them off. It's the coercer way. Why should I let the mob kill them and miss out on that experience? Maybe that's part of the reason I don't think charm is as horrible as so many others do, because I've adapted to how it is. My pets rarely if ever last more than 1-2 fights, because by that point they're inevitably down in the yellow/orange/red health range, so I break charm, root them, and kill them, then start fresh with a healthy new pet and repeat. I've not to expect to have my pet around for 10 minutes to be some sort of loyal companion I'd be upset, so that's not how I view charm, and it's not how I use it. My favorite tactic is to find 3-4 mob linked encounters. Charm one, group mez, sick pet on one, help pet kill it, then move on to the next, continuing to keep the others mezed while I help the pet kill them one at a time. When the last one is dead, the pet is nearly dead as well, so I finish him off and get the encounter xp bonus for doing the same thing I would have done on a series of unlinked solo mobs. Hardest part of this tactic is finding good spots with the correct difficulty, number, and level of linked mob encounters. PigLick</span><div></div>

[zit]

i also suggest to test different kind of mobs. my experience with root is that some mobs would break it early every time, while on other types of mobs it sticks for the whole duration almost every time. my guess is that for charm it should be similar. pre combat change the scare crows in TS have been the most famous example for high resist mobs, that always would break a spell early. you sure wouldnt like them for a pet. :smileywink: also upgrading charm should help.

[Oneira]

<P>Thanks PigLickJF.  Your suggestions were a big help and I'm starting to get the hang of Coercers.</P> <P> </P> <P>One question about Sybillant: Does it work with a charmed pet? If i send in a charmed pet to attack and cast sybillant on the mob, that is.  </P>

[PigLick]

Yep, that will work just fine. Since Sybillant is a spell you cast on a hostile mob, it doesn't matter what it's target is. I imagine it would work just fine even if you cast it on a mob some other person/group was fighting. PigLick <div></div>

[Mournso]

<P>The thing to remember though is not to stun the mob. Syb only has a chance of going off on a successful mob attack. If it's stunned it's not beating on your pet. You can also think about dropping some of your self buffs and hasting and hate buffing your pets. The other thing you want to do if you can is find scout based mobs. They do a crapload more dps than others and that's what you want your pet for. For example spiders seem to be scout based. Try sending one of the spiders in EL against a turtle and don't help it. You'll be amazed at the difference in dps between the two.</P> <P>I love how my Coercer plays since the revamp and I'm with Pig, I think charm is fine. Sure it breaks often, but if you're quick with a mezz and you keep your target rooted it's pretty smooth xp. Heck, with a warlock duoing with me last night I was doing heroic mobs at the same level as me.</P>

[Vandame]

With adept 3 charm I have had little problems with white and yellow con mobs break charm, of course this is still very early into this chars development.    Last night my defiler friend and I engaged a heroic encounter of a war elephant and tamer.  Rooted the tamer, mez'ed the elephant *I have found that elephants seem to always break root very early* charmed the war elephant and used it to kill the tamer.  After that the defiler healed and buffed the Elephant.  After that we used the elephant as our tank to bulldoze through the orc lines.  It was still much easier to fight single mob encounters as the Elephant did not seem to do any sort of AOE's and any attacks would draw the attention of the rest of the encounter upon us.   When I am solo I tend to leave the pets behind as I find it easier to simply root, dot, nuke and move onto the next mob while the dots finish it off that and the pet is extremly weak compaired to its brothern.  (guess soe does not want to repeat its previous mistake of allowing mez giants to kill the sleeper) <div></div>

[ebm7]

<div></div><hr><p></p><p><font size="1">I love how my Coercer plays since the revamp and I'm with Pig, I think charm is fine. Sure it breaks often, but if you're quick with a mezz and you keep your target rooted it's pretty smooth xp. Heck, with a warlock duoing with me last night I was doing heroic mobs at the same level as me.</font></p><hr><font size="1"><span>I couldn't agree more, Mournsong.  I have duoed from IoR to level 31 with my buddy who chose to be a warlock.  The duo is quite powerful.  At 31, I have only been in one proper group with a tank and healer.  At this point I prefer the duo.  I've only started my coercer about a week before the combat changes, but I was lvl 22 when they hit; at first I was really disappointed with the combat changes and nearly deleted the character.  However, with a little patience and a lot of dying, I finally learned how to both solo and duo effectively.  It is true that our DD sucks and our DoTs are small.  Coercers don't burn mobs down like other casters.  At lvl 22, without the Sybillant and Despotic Mind reactives, it was quite frustrating.  But persevere!  At 22 I used the pirates, crabs and spiders in Nek to refine charming and soloing tactics.  PigLick got it right.  His synopsis is quite accurate.  One thing I would like to add is that the chief benefit of charm is not necessarily to have a buddy to pal around with like Summoners and Illusionists have, but to turn the encounter numbers into an advantage. </span></font><p><font size="1"><span>For example, my ideal solo encounter is a group of 2 ^^ mobs.  Pull with charm and send the pet to attack the other before it can hit you, then root/burn the mob.  The best result is that you kill the uncharmed with very little life left on the pet, which you then break charm and kill.  Excellent xp.  Groups of 3 also work very well: use the same tactic and either mezz or root/burn the third while your pet occupies the other.  I use this approach both when I solo or duo. (The very limited time I spent in a full group I only used charm when we got adds and things were getting ugly.  Charming a blue^^^ goliath gets a lot of praise from your group mates btw...) </span></font></p><p><font size="1"><span>My recommendation, refine your charm soloing skills on green to blue non-heroic group encounters of 2-3.  When you get comfortable with the tactics, move to the Gnolls in TS near tower 1 (especially if you have Gnoll mastery).  The xp is constant and excellent.  Once you have both Sybillant and Despotic Mind, start doing Owlbears in Nek.  Find another caster of similar level to duo with if you're running out of power in these fights.  Once you get Terrible Awe, you can start soloing encounters of up to 5 with practice.  I recommend xping in small groups (I like mage duos and trios) against heroics one or two levels lower.  If you are soloing, maybe 3 or 4 levels is good...fewer charm breaks.</span></font></p><p><font size="1"><span>I'm looking forward to the next 29 levels.  This class is fun to play!</span></font></p><p><font size="1"> </font></p><p><font size="1"><span></span></font></p><div></div>

[Sta]

<P>Charm must have been fixed, no? Or does it work better at lower levels?</P> <P>I am not even a coercer yet, lvl11chanter, yesterday I had a lvl 13 ball thingy in Forest Ruins charmed for 3 full durations and it rocked all the golems. I really had a blast <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P>Same in Oakmyst, only had breaks very very rarely.</P> <P> </P> <P>Mahg</P>

[PigLick]

Yah, lower-level coercers have been reporting less problems with charm. Mobs get more difficult the higher you get, which includes higher resist rates. Higher resist rates of course leads to more frequent charm breaks, so the higher level you get, the worse charm gets. I've seen a few higher-level people saying their charms are working better now, but I've noticed no difference at all in mine, so i think they were just having a lucky streak. PigLick <div></div>

[Signal9]

<DIV>Charm seems to work better at lower levels.  Some of us have speculated that it's an offshoot of resist numbers for those low mobs being so much lower than they are on the higher level mobs.</DIV>

[dizzi73]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stain wrote:<BR> <P>Charm must have been fixed, no? Or does it work better at lower levels?</P> <P>I am not even a coercer yet, lvl11chanter, yesterday I had a lvl 13 ball thingy in Forest Ruins charmed for 3 full durations and it rocked all the golems. I really had a blast <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P>Same in Oakmyst, only had breaks very very rarely.</P> <P> </P> <P>Mahg</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I assume youre planning to be an Illusionist? Those are Qeynos zones, and unless you are uber and ran there or unless you plan to betray you'll be an Illusionist come 20.</DIV> <DIV>I'd recommend to play an Illusionist anyway, so at least you made the right choice of starting city.</DIV> <DIV>In regard to charm, it does get harder with level, I'm level 53 and even though it seems a teeny bit better of late it still breaks far more often than lower levels.</DIV> <DIV>Good luck with whichever you choose <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Sta]

<DIV>Kittiara: Mahg is a froglok so I had to start in Qeynos =)</DIV> <DIV>But this town is not filthy enough so I will definately move <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  (and besides I dont want an Illusionist)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allthough I have to withdraw my saying that it is easy, very very few mobs that are good to charm, I have had the best luck so far with the corrupted fairies in Oakmyst (100% no break) , also I was fairly lucky with the shrillers in Vermins Snye </DIV> <DIV>(at lvl 12 I can charm and keep lvl 14 shrillers at quite high frequenzy, although breaks from time to time)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont see the point in having these continuous checks on breaks. The first few times it was quite thrilling knowing it might not hold, </DIV> <DIV>but after a while I started getting anxious </DIV> <DIV>and now im anxious AND annoyed. </DIV> <DIV>And neither of those feelings should be a ground stone in a class. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Comparison: A warrior not knowing if his taunt is gonna lower or highten the monsters threat level to him.</DIV> <DIV>Or a mage not knowing if his spells are gonna heal or damage the mob.</DIV> <DIV>Or a priest with the same problem as the mage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually, that is what it is like now, you just dont know if the Charm spell is gonna help you in the next battle or kill you. Lotto.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U>Nay, better if they make it harder to succeed in charming the mob, and then let the timer be fixed at X mins.</U></DIV> <DIV><U></U> </DIV> <DIV>And the fix for 3-up-arrow mobs, I think, is not the most beautiful <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Brgrds</DIV> <DIV>Mahg lvl12 chanter</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Stain on <span class=date_text>10-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:28 PM</span>

[Thro]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PigLickJF wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AdiX__Styxx__ wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>btw piglick great answere to his Q's just add in that he should just let his pet die during the fight its only there to make the procs for damage happen altough not sure if ya got yer sybelant line at that lvl yet!</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, I don't agree with that so I wouldn't add it in. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> For one thing, as you said, he doesn't have Syb yet at that level (as far as I remember, at least). Furthermore, it's wasteful to let the pet die. Better to keep it just barely alive so you can finish it off yourself and get some easy xp. That's my normal mode of operation and it works great.<BR><BR>I don't thik of charmed pets as long-term helpers I'm going to keep around. I charm them, let them get their butt chewed while helping me kill their buddies, then turn on them when they're weakened and finish them off. It's the coercer way. Why should I let the mob kill them and miss out on that experience?<BR><BR>Maybe that's part of the reason I don't think charm is as horrible as so many others do, because I've adapted to how it is. My pets rarely if ever last more than 1-2 fights, because by that point they're inevitably down in the yellow/orange/red health range, so I break charm, root them, and kill them, then start fresh with a healthy new pet and repeat. I've not to expect to have my pet around for 10 minutes to be some sort of loyal companion I'd be upset, so that's not how I view charm, and it's not how I use it.<BR><BR>My favorite tactic is to find 3-4 mob linked encounters. Charm one, group mez, sick pet on one, help pet kill it, then move on to the next, continuing to keep the others mezed while I help the pet kill them one at a time. When the last one is dead, the pet is nearly dead as well, so I finish him off and get the encounter xp bonus for doing the same thing I would have done on a series of unlinked solo mobs. Hardest part of this tactic is finding good spots with the correct difficulty, number, and level of linked mob encounters.<BR><BR>PigLick<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm just a newbie and only have a low level coercer. I like your suggestions/style of using charm more as a short-term utility. The big drawback, however, is the incredibly long cast time on charm which essentially limits its use to before the combat begins and not actually within the heat of battle. Coupled with the fact that it takes up three slots, it isn't effective really in groups, and that really bums me out. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It seems to me the devs should get clear on what charm is meant to be used for, is it meant to provide the caster with a temporary pet, or is it meant to be a form of CC and extra damage? If the former is the case, then they need to dramatically reduce the resist rates, particularly in light of the fact that mobs scale down to the caster's level. Because mobs scale down, having a charmed mob isn't any more powerful, really, than what illusionists get. So there wouldn't be any real harm in lowering the resists. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, if charm is meant to be a form of CC + damage, then there is no problem with the high resist rates. However, what there is a problem with is the casting time, which is so long it has no real utility in most in-combat situations. Personally, I would prefer charm this way than having more reliable pets. To me, charm as an in-combat form of crowd control would be great, and would help to define the class more. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my lowbie opinion, reducing the casting time of charm alone would fix the power completely. Of course, it would be a type of fix that might not suit everyone's playstyle, but in light of the fact that mobs scale down to caster level anyway, there doesn't seem to be any real advantage to charm working as providing a temporary pet, why not just give us a fixed pet like illusionists? The advantage of charm over having a pet is that you end up killing the charmed pet as well as taking it out of the picture (CC) and letting it do a bit of damage (the disadvantages are obvious). Those are some terrific advantages. But with the long cast time it is hard to really take advantage of such advantages short of when you are soloing (even then it isn't easy). I really would like it if charm were made to be solo friendly, as well as group friendly. Lowering the cast time wouldn't really alter its current solo effectiveness, but would greatly increase its attractiveness to being used in groups. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Throne on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:08 AM</span>

[Vandame]

<div></div><p>As this is an alt I have not had an issue with getting my coerce spell to Adept 3.   Solo'ing I always go looking for a pet to charm and prefer warrior/tank class mobs as the goal is to keep them charmed as long as possible.  With Sibyllant being a master 2 and Despotic Mind being an Adept 3 I have found solo'ing anything a breeze.  The pet is not there to damage anything; its attack is a nice dot at best.  Its purpose is to be beaten up on so that either Sibyllant or Despotic Mind proc and kill the targeted mob.  Given that these mobs die in one or two hits in my early 30's I have found that I often go looking for green non agi based tank mobs to increase the rate I take down my target (the faster they hit my charmed pet the faster they kill themselves)</p>It is a pain to deal with charm breaking and even with an Adept 3 it seems to break easily, but having a disposable pet in which i can have it kill its friend then turn on it and kill it for exp and loot is a pretty nice spell.  I do not think it would be in our best intrest for them to make to many changes to the charm spell line besides maybe a slight modification to how it checks if its resisted. <div></div>