Level 38 coercer in trouble ...

[nithrill]

<DIV>Hi all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>today I was adventuring in Rivervale with a pickup group ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>... obviously my mezzing ability wasn't very helpful at all since we were pulling level 42+ mobs (yellow+ to me) and my grey (yes grey) mezmerize only works on 41 and below, my group mez was ok at times but didn't help alot when four 44s agroed on us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>... we did ok I guess and wiped only three times, and always due to adds or due to pulling a group of four.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>I guess I could blame people in the group for these wipes ... the tank, the secondary, the healer, the wizzy or the nekro ... since I'm at it I could even blame the nekro pet, but the fact of the matter is that I was completely useless to the group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just couldn't crowd control to save my life ... then after the second wipe I noticed I got an upgrade ... yes ladies and gents ... I got enthrall.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not that matters improved alot ... I used to have two mezzes ... today I have only one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We pull a group of four ... I try to mez ... oops ... resist ... tick, tick, tick (waiting for recast) ... mt low on health ... tick, tick ... healer gets agro ... mez ... yes ... landed one ... tick, tick, tick ... healer dies ... tick, tick ... mt dies ... tick ... secondary ... tick, tick ... yes ... interrupted ... grr ... the restful sleep.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After this the group pretty much disbanded.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After leaving the group I decided to go to zek and finish some roaming quests.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thought this was going to be easy ... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>... whilest walking I see some deer I need for a quest ... but ther is an orc in the way (a green, no arrow, level 33)... he is standing by himself ... no targets close by, other than the deers ... so ... I land a mez ... ops, sorry ... that is enthrall ... anyway ... out of nowhere come his buddies and start pounding on me ... interrupt ... (I start thinking to my self ... if only I could cast uninterruptable mez) ... interrupt ... interrupt ... grr ... death.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>... ok, I wasn't about to give up ... I go fetch the body ... this time there is nothing close to the deer (I guess I showed those orcs and they decided to bail) ... there are four of them ... and I've got ae mez, right ... wrong ... ae mez all but one ... then mez that one ... arrgh ... now I notice that my new enthrall and my mezmerize spells are on the same timer ... panic ... quick search through my book and I find my class trait (*$%#&! I was smart picking that one) ... click, click, click ... I manage to finish one deer ... but then another gets loose ... resist ... tick, tick ... two shots from the deer and I'm in the red ... mez and /yell ... phew ... start running ... see one of the deers heading for me ... but it stops after a while ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>... whilest standing there considering my options two blue snakes decide that I would make an intresting playmate ... two interrupts later I'm on the ground.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My subscription is due to be renewed 13th of April ... So, my question is this: why should I endure on? I was so looking forward to joining my friends, who are all lvl 50 btw and all starting to raid in zones I don't even have access to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why should I wait for LU#7? For that o'so mighty dps upgrade we have been promised ... why ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know for a fact that I won't be able to stun/mez mobs with my superior dps, so is there any reason I should stay.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rerolling is not an option btw... I've already spent 5 months on this toon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess I'm just looking for someone to say: "Don't worry, we are all with you there... Both of us... Things will get better ......... Honest".</DIV>

[Knightma]

<DIV> <DIV>Nithrill, I'm not going to tell you to stick around or quit.  That is your choice.  My only advice is to wait a bit and make that decision when you have not had such a bad day.  I'm sure that every other Coercer can tell you stories of how they wracked up massive debt one day and couldn't seem to kill anything in group or solo.  I myself could tell you how I had to work off over 70% debt during my trek through Level 47...but you don't want to hear about that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have no idea if LU #7 will help the Coercer class or hurt it.  I have tried to get used to playing the class as it constantly has been "tweaked" over the last month or so.  I am fully ready for more "tweaking" that will both help and hinder the class as it now stands.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does the Coercer class get better from 38 to 50?  General consensus is, not really.  You are getting close to the point where Crowd Control is not quite as needed as it has been.  Your DPS is not going to improve signifcantly, and most other classes will.  Your utility will consist of Breeze, and most other classes will have no idea what other utility you might bring to the table.  Beguile, as it stands now will be more of a fluff spell for you to use when soloing, as the chance for it to break encounters will probably not be enjoyed by any xp group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Despite that, you probably won't have too much trouble finding groups.  You will be generally appreciated and warmly treated.  You will occasionally save a groups collective butts with your mez.  You will find that your stun and stifle seem to be your best spells, even though no one else will realize you are even using them.  And if LU#7 goes well for Coercers, you will see an increase in your DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all, you've invested 5 months in your Coercer, don't let one bad day erase that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nyco Tine</DIV> <DIV>50 Coercer, Permafrost</DIV> <DIV>Retired.</DIV></DIV>

[Kreat]

At 36 I hardly ever bother mezzing unless its an add since I tend to get resisted a lot, I tend to rely on stuns and stifles to CC rather then building up tons of hate on a mob from a failed mezz, heck, when I solo, I just stifle the buggers and take the hits as the time I spend regenning in between fights is less tedious then root-dotting and nuking.I know where you are at and how you feel though, I had to leave my Coercer alone for quite some time after we kept getting changes every week, so if it helps, roll up an alt, play it to see the other side of the fence and see how those classes work and how you can work better with others as a coercer, it truly does make a difference <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ubertakt]

<DIV><FONT size=2>This is more of a curiosity question, but did you guys in the 35-38.6 range focus your character on getting your int as high as possible, with character traits, gear, etc.?  I know I had trouble in that level range also, but I really did not have a problem with resists until I was near 38.  I think my resist rate might have been as high as 20%, but that's just a guess.  It was probably lower.  Most of the time I ran in to the simple but effective "Target too powerful" message.  Sometimes I wonder if resists are affected by my int.  At 42 I could mez lvl 50 mobs about 25% of the time.  Now at 43.5 it's more like 80-90% of the time.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>So if you get a chance check your int and post it.  For reference my int at 36 was probably 150+ buffed.  Of course now it's a little higher.  At 42 it was about 190 (buffed).  Now it's 198 (buffed).  </FONT></DIV>

[Kreat]

<blockquote><hr>Ubertakter wrote: <DIV><FONT size=2>This is more of a curiosity question, but did you guys in the 35-38.6 range focus your character on getting your int as high as possible, with character traits, gear, etc.?  I know I had trouble in that level range also, but I really did not have a problem with resists until I was near 38.  I think my resist rate might have been as high as 20%, but that's just a guess.  It was probably lower.  Most of the time I ran in to the simple but effective "Target too powerful" message.  Sometimes I wonder if resists are affected by my int.  At 42 I could mez lvl 50 mobs about 25% of the time.  Now at 43.5 it's more like 80-90% of the time.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>So if you get a chance check your int and post it.  For reference my int at 36 was probably 150+ buffed.  Of course now it's a little higher.  At 42 it was about 190 (buffed).  Now it's 198 (buffed).  </FONT></DIV><hr></blockquote>Only thing int helps with is your power pool, and since I can buff my own and my groups power pool by 500+ I don't really worry about a few measly points of intelligence, it's at 140 unbuffed, and honestly, that is just fine as long as you keep your subjugation capped<p>Message Edited by Kreated on <span class=date_text>04-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:25 AM</span>

[nithrill]

Thanks,

[Ubertakt]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> I wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT size=2>...  Sometimes I wonder if resists are affected by my int.  ...</FONT><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT size=2>Pathetic though it is, obviously I need to quote myself.  I know that int probably only affects power pool.  Howerver, as stated in my quote, I have often wondered about int affecting resists.  I saw this as an opportunity to collect some information.  I have done some experiementation myself and I was hoping that others might have done the same.  I plan on doing some more now that I have enough inventory space to remove all of my equipment.  I expect to find that there is no difference, but I wonder if there is some threshold value or similar system depending on what level mob you are casting on.  If anyone has tried this, how about some results.  So far I haven't seen any effect, but I am curious if it also has to do with "spell level".</FONT></DIV>

[Tanatus]

<P>a) from lvl 38 coercer go down hill with each lvl you feel weaker and weaker in relation to other classes</P> <P>b) Int dont have what so ever effect on resist I had chance test it with 242 int and 150int - no visible difference... more over once you hit mark 200 int (including food/buffs/ect) - each point of int do .... nothing not even power</P>

[Kreat]

<blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<P>a) from lvl 38 coercer go down hill with each lvl you feel weaker and weaker in relation to other classes</P> <P>b) Int dont have what so ever effect on resist I had chance test it with 242 int and 150int - no visible difference... more over once you hit mark 200 int (including food/buffs/ect) - each point of int do .... nothing not even power</P> <hr></blockquote>What he said <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[ProteusTielaxi]

<P>Of course, you were using Adept1 or better Enthrall, right?</P> <P>I don't get resists very often..on mobs yellow or lower. Orange/red, sure, the resist rate goes up, but still perfectly usable. If mez doesn't land, I can stun, or root.</P> <P>The key to success is level of spells. At 39, ALL your major spells should be AdeptI..and your primary combat spells preferably higher. It does make a huge difference.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Icewolf99]

well i took my coercer out today after a few weeks of retirement, i really forgot how terrible he is, can't solo anything without risk of death on every single pull.  I keep reading about stifiling and tanking  , well i tried that, got the everloving crap beat out of me, stifle didnt help at all, and yes its adept.  Back into retirement for him.  I'll try him again after the fix, if he still sucks, DELETE. <div></div>

[Enil]

Level 42 Coercer here.  Yes, as we level we are slowly going down the drain.  We get less useful roots (longer to cast), fewer big stuns (replaced with longer casting and shorter duration stuns) and our damage is nothing to shout about.  However with skill we can be quite useful with a group.  I have Enthrall at adept III (a must!  borrow, beg or whatever, this is a must.) and it sticks to level 49 mobs sometimes.  But don't focus too much on your mez, you can still save the day with your stuns and EoA mez, even with beguile if all else fails (when there are no double ups), better to have a broken encounter than lose the fight.  Every second counts in a tight spot.  Select the first mob in the incoming add, cast mez and when it is going out hit tab to select the next and cast the big stun.  Then select the third mob with tab and cast mez (should be ready), hit shift-tab and cast the little stun (the big stun is expiring soon), then cast mez on that one but time it so that it does not land before the stuns wear out.  Even if one of the mez fails you are still taking most of the firepower out of the picture and give your group valuable time to recover. <div></div>

[azathr]

<DIV>I didn't have any trouble at 38.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I rarely mezzed when I was grouping, instead I'd make sure to stifle and stun, mez usually would get broken anyways.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I solo'd the solo Demons in EL mostly, pulled with Anguish, threw a stun/stifle on it as it approached, threw a gloom and a melancholy, started HO, hit it with despotic mind, finished HO with 2ndary nuke, stifle again, HO again...dead Demon.  Sometimes it was touchy, but usually I was fine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now that they have fixed group mez I am having an even better time soloing in the Feerrott.  I am soloing the weak Lizardman groups, and I realized Coercers are now built to solo the 'solo group mobs' much better than most other classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I Start with AE Mez and mez the whole group of 2-3 of them.   I enthrall one, cycle to the next and long-stun it, then throw on Gloom and Melancholy, start HO, throw Despotic mind, if 3 member group I cycle to the next and enthrall it as AE mez has almost worn off by now.  Finish nuke and first mob should be dead....the 'solo group' mobs have ridiculously low HP.  Lizardman strike helps, but not required.   Stifle next lizardman, throw on Gloom and Melancholy, HO and despotic mind and nuke to finish it...repeat with last.  Its really really really really really easy and the xp is pretty good.   At 39 I could solo groups of 3, even three level 40s.   They are healer type caster groups, so its important to keep the active ones stifled.  Their melee dps can be laughed at.</DIV>

[Tanatus]

azathrai I hate to mention it but paladins start solo nightbloods in EL at lvl 31 ... while you can do it barely at lvl 37-38....

[Erow]

<DIV> <DIV>The trouble is the difficulty of the class. I have successfully solo'd both of the starter nameds for BBC heritage. Lvl 42 Opalla (Grey) in Blackborrow and Lvl 44 Redak (Green) in Stormhold. Not to boast, but I know a few other classes that couldn't solo these mobs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The trick with this class, is patience. You can't go gun-ho into a fight and expect to tank the mob, but with the right combination of Mez and Stun, you can solo pretty ok. If your good <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>Couple things to keep in mind.<BR><BR>Your gear is king, just above lvl. SOE did us a favor by telling us our gear sucks, aka Treasured, is acceptable aka Legendary, and is desirable, aka Fabled.<BR><BR>Someone asked about INT. Int is important, if you plan on buffing a Raid force, but by the time you get there, your regen will be so rediculous, its kinda a non issue. Robe of the Invoker +20/tick, GEB +20/tick, Clarity +40/tick, and Mind Gorge +64/tick lol. Mana pool isn't that big of an issue because you CANNOT use it all.<BR><BR>Focus on AGI, this is your avoidance. The higher your avoidance, the less you get hit. At lvl 50, I will typically resist any casting attack, and if I do get hit i'll stifle shortly there after. But getting melee hit will "wtfpwnt" you so fast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm still learning new things about this class. It is extremely complex and very difficult to play well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see too many would-be wizards playing chanters and are mad they don't have the dps to compete. Call me crazy, but go play a wizard. I do have my own set of issues. I wish we had a group invis. That traded for beguile is huge, expecially since beguile is still unusable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as what to look forward to in the high lvls. There is a lot. Since we are extremely rare. There are less then 20 total chanters on innothule over lvl 40; that still play. I think 5 or less lvl 50's that still play. The way the raid content is designed, power regen is nice, power drain is crucial. I'm not going to say we are "required" for raiding x4's but I will say we are a much welcomed addition to any raid.<BR><BR>Grouping is a different issue. I get to use my abilities more in a duo/trio situation than in a full group. Heres an example. We took 3 of us to Miragul's. A Templar, A guardian and me - Coercer. Haven't tried it since the buff, but we completed it without an issue. Sure it took a while, but it was a blast taking that last named caster out. "Stifle is king" <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We could potentially be the most powerful class, if played well. I think sony knows this, and is cautious of this. They always nerf first and find a balance later. I wish my stun and stifle worked on epics, even if the duration is less than half. From an offensive side, I'm pretty useless on raids, just add some marginal dps. From a utility side, well, you the idea.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope this helps,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Erowen on <span class=date_text>06-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:33 PM</span>

[Ubertakt]

<P><FONT size=2>I've done some testing as well and have also come to the conclusion that int doesn't effect resists.  Currently at 44 I can mez level 52 mobs with very few resists.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>I wouldn't say that mez is useless in full groups.  In my opinion there are a few things that determine when to use mez:</FONT></P> <OL> <LI><FONT size=2>Group Composition:  In groups that can do a lot of AoE damage it is probably better to use stun on the primary mob and let the others be nuked down.  In groups that only have melee characters, or in other words low AoE damage, I like to use mez just to manage the battle.  Usually this helps the healer conserve mana and keeps a nice constant flow of mobs incoming.  Of course all this depends on what you fight.</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT size=2>Group Character:  Have the people in the group played with an enchanter before?  Do they even know what an enchanter is or does?  Sometimes education is required.  Sometimes people want to be educated; most of the time they act like *$%#&! 12-year olds.</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT size=2>Mobs:  What are you fighting?  Are you fighting in an area that consists of many solo ^^?  Or are they a bunch of lower level mobs?  As far as determing use of AoE on encounters, I let the healer decide.  If the healer is having trouble or recongnizes that the mobs have some very tough special attacks, then some damage reduction may be in order (i.e. mezzing).  If the healer hardly ever heals then nuke them quickly.  The point is that since healer is closely monitoring the damage being taken by members of the group, they are a good judge if mezzing is required or not.</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT size=2>Guild:  Are you grouping with guildmates?  They are more likely to realize what an enchanter can do and will usually provide reliable input on what needs to be mezzed and what doesn't.</FONT></LI></OL> <P><FONT size=2>OK, short on time here... here is an example.  In fighting down through Soulsek's Eye most of the mobs are single encounters of ^^.  All are aggro and are closely packed, so in going down there with some guildies I was constantly mezzing the adds.  This allowed us to maintain control of the situation.  I usually didn't worry about mezzing if it was an encounter of single ^ or no arrow mobs.  Result:  We had no problems at all.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>I guess the point I'm trying to make here is good groups realize the usefullness of an enchanter and that good groups are hard to find, so don't feel too bad if you feel kind of useless sometimes.  Also, always try to remain flexible.  Sometimes it's also hard to find groups that are willing to take on challenges.  It seems like most people aren't interested in doing things that are challenging.  Of course raids are a different situation entirely.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Let me summarize:  Sometimes mez is good; remain flexible.</FONT></P>