I would like to thank all those whiny illusionist for the coercer nerf.

[Esar]

<DIV>Today we were raiding, we were having a lot of mana issues.  We still beat the mobs, but just felt that coercers were way too underpowered.  I mean come on, coercers had better regens, illusionist had better mezzes.  Now what? coercers just plain simply suck.  I'm sorry but thank you for ruining a class that wasnt broken in the first place.  I hope SoE really reconsiders this.  Why have coercers in raid when illusionist can regen just as well and Mezz and drain better.  I'm not a enchanter class at all, so i wouldnt care which class illusionist or coercers are better, but from my observations it seems that coercers just simply suck now</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Esar</DIV> <DIV>50 monk.</DIV>

[xev]

<DIV>And this coming from a non-chanter says alot.</DIV>

[Oghi]

<DIV>Actually, what it says is this:  "I don't know any of the actual numbers or workings of the spells, as I've never played either enchanter class.  However, my raid had some problems today.  Clearly, this is because illusionists are overpowered."  Huh?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There probably aren't 3 illusionists posting on these boards who don't feel that coercers need some help.  Neither enchanter subclass is working very well right now.  The difference is this:  Most illusionist posts, Mayo nothwithstanding, discuss illusionist spells.  The most prolific coercer posters, however, focus on their incorrect impressions of illusionist spells.  We have one Mayo.  You have a dozen.</DIV>

[xev]

<DIV>Just tried a test with Anquish and Consuming Thoughts. They are not even worth casting now imo (as far as power regen capabilities go).</DIV>

[TeveLeezardba]

You have one Mayo because your class isn't a horrid failure. I guarantee if you were on our side of the fence you'd be just as upset. Might I also remind you, it only took one Mayo to screw us all(At least, thats the way most people percieve it. The truth of that situation is better left to each individual to decide) - You can't blame people for being vengeful about a person who screams his lungs out on forums about how our class needs to be nerfed(Though I will admit our former power regen was extremely high, however placing it in the dirt below the basement was not a solution to the problem). Yes, they(myself included) should just move on and attempt to get some semblence of a class from the Devs. However, with no information in sight - and nothing but negativity sitting on our screen when we log on our characters; do you really expect us all to bite our tongues and remain passive? Would you? Could you really place everything else aside when your entire character's play style was changed overnight without any comment from the developers? Could you just say "Oh well, those 50 levels weren't that long anyway. Guess I'll just cross my fingers and hope a whole bunch that the nice people behind the curtain will save my class!"? I highly doubt it, being objective about a game is extremely difficult when you've attached emotional stock in your character.

[KUPOPO]

<DIV>Don't blame the illusionists, blame SOE for using the greataxe where they should use a scalpel. They always do this, they give a class something that's a bit unbalancing at the beginning, and then overcompensate the opposite direction making the class too weak. It's not like this is the first time it's happened. It's just a shame that it happened to chanters, none of whom deserve it.</DIV>

[KornRollKid]

<DIV>Agreed and im a 38 illy</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>KUPOPO not chanters ... COERCERS name things right - NOTHING bad happend with Illusionists - heck you got your pet fixed, you got scorching beam fixed, you got 15 min duraion on all you buffs, you got practically every single spells of your FIXED .... coercer did not any single Fix but Beguile that been immideatly nerfed back to original stage</DIV>

[Tolt]

<DIV>illusionists were nerfed too.. our AE mana tap that gives mana to group was nerfed to almost nothing as well /shrug</DIV>

[CherobylJ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xevan wrote:<BR> <DIV>And this coming from a non-chanter says alot.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Alot of us are losing our guild Coercers to this...I kinda do think its part of our business.

[usaev]

<DIV>Im a templar and I feel for you guys...  A great guild member of ours was hit hard by this nerf but has since picked up and moved on.  I just hope they give back some of what was taken away.   Im really starting to get sick of SoE's thoughtless "balancing."</DIV>

[Spellbounders]

<blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<DIV>KUPOPO not chanters ... COERCERS name things right - NOTHING bad happend with Illusionists - heck you got your pet fixed, you got scorching beam fixed, you got 15 min duraion on all you buffs, you got practically every single spells of your FIXED .... coercer did not any single Fix but Beguile that been immideatly nerfed back to original stage</DIV><hr></blockquote>Scorching beam is not fixed.

[Surian]

First of all, I'm currently browsing the Coercer boards in hopes of digging up some information on what the coercer is currently capable of, and what needs to be fixed (long post incoming on some different part of the forums in the future, bwa-ha-ha. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )Second of all, as soon as I stepped in, I noticed that this forum is filled up with the similar content to most other forums... whining. Lots of whining. It's in the Illusionist forum, it's in this forum, it's in a lot of forums. There's good posts too, and there's whining posts. We Illusionists are not the only ones whining.In the Illusionist forum, which I make a point of checking quite regularly, I saw a -lot- more whining about the Illusionist class in general and why we suck... made by Illusionists. I saw occasional references to supposed stacking of group and single-target power regens in the coercer line, but these were often argued and no one ever actually provided sources or information -- just general statements.Not too long ago I -did- see people coming into the forums and crying: Illusionist nerf! Nerf 'em NOW! However, I did not assume that those people were all Coercers... they could have been any class, or just general forum trolls. They didn't really do anything except make general and argumentative statements anyways. For those that -did-, I'm not talking about you. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />The point I'm trying to make is this: I'm sure there's people crying 'nerf!' but they're not that bright, and eventually the nerf-bat will swing back around and hit them squarely in the face. I personally feel that -Enchanters- need some love and attention right now, although I will note that there's issues with -every- class and no one seems very pleased with the attention they are getting (or the lack thereof.)You cannot place the blame for something bad happening to your class, entirely on the shoulders of a different class. Although, I'm not entirely certain why I'm responding to such a flame-inducing thread... but oh well, I wrote so much already it'd be a shame to delete it now. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Once again: Enchanters need help. Enchanters. Not the 10-19 range either, I mean the 20-50 ranges of both Enchanter subclasses. Pointing fingers, calling names, and screaming NERF at the top of your lungs isn't going to solve anything.Few notes:Scorching Beam is not fixed.We have our own issues too.The 15-minute duration on buffs did not affect only Illusionists.I personally feel that right now Coercers are in more 'dire need' than the Illusionists, although there are -many- things that need to be looked at in both classes. I've managed to dig up some quite -informative- posts about Coercer concerns (already knowing my own class' pretty well,) and that's what I base my opinion on.But, once again, pointing fingers and whatnot will not get Coercers de-nerfed; it will not fix the issues in need of attention.Surianka45 IllusionistBefallenOfficer of Imperium<p>Message Edited by Surianka on <span class=date_text>03-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:54 AM</span>

[Orki who Pos]

<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT size=4>I hate to break it to you.. but right now illusionists can hold their ground in ANY situation. Even their single target dps is quite decent from 30ish to 40.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=4>Due to buffs (dont forget clarity/haste/extra attacks/proc dots) they are often the top damage dealer in the group, atleast from 20 to 45.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4>(if you make your entire group deal 50% more damage/second, it's the helluvalot of damage, and if you can at the same time lock down 2 mobs and manadrain a third with speechless, whoop)</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Coercers are currently decent, no more, no less.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>It's worth having a coercer in your group, or a second bard if you cant get a decent illusionist.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>And that.. is why coercers are complaining.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>It is alot more fun to be a "first pick" than a "second best", it was the same way at your soccer team in school, it was alot more fun to be the guy everyone wanted on their team, than to be the fat fella cheering on the bench.</FONT></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Orki who Posts on <span class=date_text>03-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:25 PM</span>

[yes4]

What I find amazing is that this is the place where people whine by far the most, and yet we will be the last one to get any update, regardless of what officials will say. And God knows what else Sony will nerf on the process, or change without telling us.

[Oghi]

<P>Orki, why do you insist on huge-font idiocy?  Illusionists can hold their own in single-target DPS?  That's ridiculous.  Unless you're hunting with lazy comrades, an illusionist will generally be the second-lowest DPS in *any* group.  Only the main healer will do less damage.  Any tank will generally double our damage.  I know this doesn't match your wild-[Removed for Content] guesses and preconceptions, but I actually parse this stuff, regularly.  Even when I go full-bore DPS, without any regard for stifles, crowd control, etc, I'll still lose out to any melee and most priests.  The relevant spells are mostly Adept III or Master-level, too, so it's not like I'm missing some upgrades.</P> <P>I don't know how coercers perform with single-target DPS.  I've never played one, and it's extremely rare for any group to include two enchanters.  I've not had an opportunity to parse one.  However, looking over the spells, it would surprise me if coercers didn't stink at single-target DPS, too.  Charm may provide some short-term spikes, but neither enchanter class scales well at all from 30 - 50 on the damage scale.</P>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Oghier while Illusionist STILL able outdamage priests .... coercer cannt - roflmao even Templars score higher DPS then coercer in group... on single target </DIV>

[Lanz]

<DIV>Although the agument here is HOW MUCH better illusionist is the Coercer weather its alot better or alittle better</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no doubt about it...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coercers are weak...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They need a little more DPS and stronger roots thats for sure.</DIV>