spells used @lvl50

[Mondwaecht]

<DIV>This thread is ment to collect all spells that are used (even if only rarely) if your alter ego is lvl50. With rarely I dont mean spells you need to use to kill greys/fun spells.</DIV> <DIV>This would help me in knowing what to upgrade to Adept III.</DIV> <DIV>I'll try to keep the first post updated</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>LVL, Spellname,  (Damage (or effect)/Mana cost @ Adept 1/3/4 Master1)</DIV> <DIV>42.6 Tyrranical Mind (?/?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>43.6,  Seizure,  (?/?) (unless you got Muddled Thinking Master 1 (?/?))</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>42, Despair, (?/?) (unless you got Melancholy Master 1 (?/?))</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>?, Torment (?/?) (unless you got Anguish at Master 1(?/?) ->have not found this spell on coercer spell list ( <A href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/list/abilities_coercer.php" target=_blank>http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/list/abilities_coercer.php</A> )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This 4 spells to upgrade first</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not so important to upgrade:</DIV> <DIV>48, Mind Eye, (?/?) </DIV> <DIV>46, Clarity, (?/?) </DIV> <DIV>38, Enthrall, (?/?) </DIV> <DIV>45, Ravage Psyche (?/?) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Mondwaechter on <span class=date_text>02-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:39 PM</span>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Well I hate to tell you but none of spell you have mention is worth to upgrading into Adept 3...</DIV> <DIV>You need get Adept 3 for those (I try to put it in order of importance/usefullness)</DIV> <DIV>Tyrranical Mind </DIV> <DIV>Seizure (unless you got Muddled Thinking Master 1)</DIV> <DIV>Despair (unless you got Melancholy at Master 1)</DIV> <DIV>Torment (unless you got Anguish at Master 1)</DIV> <DIV>This 4 spells to upgrade first</DIV> <DIV>Mind Eye</DIV> <DIV>Clarity</DIV> <DIV>Entrall</DIV> <DIV>Ravage Psyche</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rest of spells good as is or Adept 1</DIV> <DIV>Note: Demoralizing Gaze and Psychic Wail broken atm and untill they fixed I dont see single reason waste presious rhodium on it. Even then or better say IF those spells will be fixed I'll upgrade only AE DD and only if base damage per target will be 300-350 at very least. </DIV>

[Mondwaecht]

<DIV>@Tanatus: thank you for the feedback...I've updated the first post and added some table fields that should help deciding about important spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>@all: any more feedback?</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Rule of the tomb for offensive spells </DIV> <DIV>At lvl 50 Adept 1 (sometime Adept 3) of tier 2 Protean Spells (spells that we are getting from lvl 37 to lvl 50) do EXACTLY same damage like Master 1 spells of tier 1 Protean Spells (spells that we are getting from lvl 20 to lvl 36) but tier 1 Master STILL better because it cost you less power</DIV> <DIV>To illustrate this at lvl 49</DIV> <DIV>Muddled Thinking Master 1 (lvl 26DD)- 190-233 damage</DIV> <DIV>Seizure Adept 1 (lvl43DD) - 185-226 damage (at lvl 50 I presume it will do exactly same at M1 of MT)</DIV> <DIV>Anguish Master 1 (lvl31DOT) - 110 damage per tic</DIV> <DIV>Torment Adept 3 (lvl45DOT) - 107 damage per tic</DIV> <DIV>Generallys speaking for offensive spells upgrade from Adept 1 to Adept 3 increase damage by ~10% -</DIV> <DIV>Examples:</DIV> <DIV>Torment Adept 1 at lvl 50 - 97 damage per tic</DIV> <DIV>Adept 3 - 110 damage per tic</DIV> <DIV>13% damage increase</DIV> <DIV>Tyrranical Mind Adept 1 at lvl 50 capped at 571 damage or so</DIV> <DIV>Adept 3 at lvl 50 - 656 damage</DIV> <DIV>14% damage increase</DIV> <DIV>Rest 4 spells I have mention you might consider to upgrade if you have spare rhodium/ruby</DIV>

[Mondwaecht]

I finally got my lvl50 now...thought again about this old post here and know now that upgrading for us is useless since it doesnt matter if we do 500Dam or 550Dam... Only thing I find worth upgrading is Clarity since there are some guys on Raids that seem to need even more mana than I can give. <div></div>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>All I can say more often then not Adept 3 not good enouth to pierce resistance of certain mobs  - you need master 1 at very least better master 3</DIV>

[Cornbread_GA]

<DIV>My most-used list would consist of:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI><STRONG>Clarity</STRONG>    (<EM>Master 1</EM>)  - Increase Max Power by 235.  Increase power by 40 every 6 seconds.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Besklor's Mind Gorge</STRONG>  (<EM>Training option</EM>) - Group mana pump.  The only group pump to NOT be nerfed. Gives back approximately 260 mana over its duration.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Torment</STRONG>   (<EM>Adept 1</EM>) - Moderate DoT damage.  Slight power drain.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Despair</STRONG> (<EM>Master 1</EM>) - Moderate DoT damage.  10% attack speed debuff. -1293 to Mental, Magic, and Divine.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Seizure</STRONG> (<EM>Adept 3</EM>)   - Quick recast nuke.  <STRONG>Interrupts target</STRONG>  and drains power.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Tyrannical Mind</STRONG> (<EM>Adept 3</EM>)  - Nuke + summons thoughtstone.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Withering Silence</STRONG> (<EM>Adept 3</EM>) - Level 30 stifle + mana drain.  Only stifle to work on epic targets.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Velocity</STRONG> (<EM>Master 1</EM>) - 37% Haste.  Not currently upgradeable.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Ravaged Psyche</STRONG> (<EM>Adept 3</EM>) - Decrease mitigation vs. all magical damage by 1105.</LI></UL> <P>Theres several other spells that get used a lot during raids, but most are very situational.. like Psychic Wail and Dreadful Awe.  Can significantly lower the amount of damage your tank takes if used properly.  Generally the three most important to have on any given MOB would be Ravaged Psyche, Agonizing or Withering Silence (depending on ^^ or ^^^), and Despair.</P> <P>With the combat revamp coming, it would be a good idea to upgrade every spell that you could see as useful.  It might not make a big difference now, but chances are there will be a noticeable difference in most of our 'un-upgradeable' spells.</P> <P>Tinky Vonwinky of the Shard</P> <P>50 Coercer Mistmoore.</P> <P>-- STATIC --</P><p>Message Edited by Cornbread_GA on <span class=date_text>05-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:47 AM</span>

[Sy]

I picked<b> Liskias Grievious Quietude</b> instead of <strong>Besklor's Mind Gorge.. </strong>Course i picked this before the nerf sicne i had master 1 ......... however.. One benefit.. is that Quietude is an Epic silence.. has worked real well .. and ive never had power probs..ANy thoughts? Wondering if i should respec if im ever allowed to again! <div></div>

[Orki who Pos]

<P><FONT size=4>Syan, i am pretty sure that it does NOT silence an epic mob (^^^ mobs)</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=4>It LANDS on them, and you get the ICON that it's ticking, but in fact, the mob is NOT stifled, it just takes damage from the dot.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4>It still uses all special attacks.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=4>If it actually IS an epic stifle, please let us know, since that would be tremendously usefull. I'm however rather certain that it's not, and that's why i took the mind gorge.</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT size=4></FONT></DIV>

[Dystr]

Orki, i agree with you.  i can land withering silence on epics, i get the icon.  if i chain cast it and keep it on all the time, the mob should never be able to cast.  however, damage logs show that the mob is casting like a [Removed for Content] the entire time.  i have to assume that the lvl 40 upgrade does the same thing.  if it does actually stifle, please for the love of god let us know becuase i will respec and choose that.  as it is me and my co-coercer just switch off BMG, draining for ~600 power/minute.  but if i can stifle, that will be WAY more useful. <div></div>

[Chath]

Syan, please (pretty please!  pretty pretty please!) confirm your claim.  I was all set to go with BMG at 40, but if LGQ really is an epic-capable stifle, I will <EM><STRONG>gladly</STRONG></EM> take LGQ instead.

[Sy]

Well good points guys.. I was quite sure it worked.. But ill try to confirm tonight.  Anybody got any ideas for an easy raid mob i could test this on?  One that doesnt proc its spells and one that i can test quite a few times during battle without gettin my 50coercer spanked. <div></div>

[Orki who Pos]

<FONT size=3>if you have a log file from any raid, you can just check in that one for the spell, and then the next 70ish lines to see if it does special attacks.</FONT> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>

[Chath]

<DIV>I'd go for Lord Ree in Wailing Caves.  He's only level 16, but he's epic x2, so he should be immune but incapable of touching you.  If you fail to stifle him, then it's a pretty safe bet you're not stifling anything else, either.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There's also a level 20 epic x2 vulrich in the Commonlands you could try, just east of the dervish camps along the south wall of the zone that's probably easier to get to (since Lord Ree requires two different keys to reach), assuming it's up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Chatham on <span class=date_text>05-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:37 PM</span>

[Sy]

Cool Ill goto WC tonight and log it. BTW Stifle is only supposed to work on cast spells not any special ability.  At least I thought... <div></div>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Syan wrote:Cool Ill goto WC tonight and log it. BTW Stifle is only supposed to work on cast spells not any special ability.  At least I thought... <div></div><hr></blockquote>Stifle works on any and all abilities. Combat Arts and Spells are the only 2 forms of abilities that are in the game, and all of these are unusable when stifled.

[Chath]

<P>The description of Withering Silence on the web site (as of right now) says "Drains Power over-time and reduces the casting ability of an opponent.", but it really prevents all specials like every other stifle I've ever heard of.</P> <P>I find it vital for soloing.</P> <P> </P>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>It not prevent specials of epic mob .... unfortunally and again unfortunally only "power drain" part work</DIV>

[Mondwaecht]

<P>found a second spell woth upgrading since I use it since level 14 (up to lvl 50)...its Gloom</P> <P>so there are 2 Spells worth upgrading (in my eyes):</P> <P>Clarity</P> <P>Gloom</P>

[Mondwaecht]

just found another sad reason for not upgrading ANY spell to Adept3... On my server (Innovation) were just 2 active coercers @lvl50...one has quit...now there are 2 active coercers above lvl45 ( http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/eq2form.m?Form=Character.Search.General&serverId=210&classId=27&minLevel=45&maxLevel=&name= )...now guess what I need to pay for my Master1 spells...yes, its less then a Ruby would cost dont really understand why we are just 2 45+ Coercers since I love to play my class with all the possibilities it has...on the other hand...getting killed by greys pretty often and casting crack on 24 people isnt really fun...but well...each class has its good and bad sides. <div></div>

[Zmokyn]

<P>Regarding Liskias, it is my belief that it does have some effect on stifling epic mobs, but the stifle isnt complete.</P> <P>During several attempts on Udalan, we logged casting output from the Lich. On attempts without 100% stifle in place, he pushed out a lot more special melee and casting effects, than when a coercer chain-cast Liskias on him. Liskias did not shut him down completely, but it certainly appeared to cut his damage output from specials by around 50%. </P> <P>On that attempt, he didnt get Incinerate or Nil Distortion off at all.</P> <P>Is it possible that there are two kinds of abilities which mobs get? Some are "innate" and can be used through stifle. Some are "cast" and can therefore be stifled.  We noticed on other mobs, that some of their effects stop when they run out of power, but other continue and dont seem to use any power.</P> <P>Thoughts?</P> <P>Zmokynne M'Raz</P> <P>50 Coercer of Shadow Company</P> <P>AB</P>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Did you also had a warlock casting on Lich Vulian Interference? if so then it was effect of Vulian</DIV>

[Axamand]

<P>I normally will not post on this forum because it seems like a bunch of whiners lamenting their loss of dire charm but I do have to comment on this.</P> <P> </P> <P>I am a level 50 Coercer on the Oasis server and I farm Miraguls Menagerie and Icespire Summit daily.  My brother, a 49 Guardina and myself do this and we only have four people total.  In these zones are two epic mobs, Myrgoth and the Gale Marshall.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>In a smaller four man group you have a much finer feel for what your damage mitigation is accomplishing but one thing to me is clear.  Withering silence drastically mitigates the amount of damage that a epic mob does.   I normally keep stifle up at all times but occasionally ill get a resist and the damage increases dramatically.  I will see dips into orange whereas previously an occasional yellow was all to be seen.</P> <P>Additionally it seems that none of you drain power because if you did it would be noticed that these mobs still 'cast' when they are out of power.</P>

[Erow]

<P>Axamander, I agree, but take it one step further.</P> <P>A 50 Paladin and I duo MM, MG, Vault and Iceberg (if he's up) usually everyday. Haven't tried to duo Icespire yet because our Stifle doesn't work on true Epics (^^^). Very fun and rewarding.</P> <P> </P>

[Tanatus]

<P>*Sign*</P> <P>Good wizard or warlock can solo every single zone you have mentioned...MM dont have any epic mobs so to speak, neither do EB...</P> <P>Coercer can stifle everything that ++ but nothing that +++ monk and guardian can stifle +++ </P>

[Orki who Pos]

<P><FONT size=3>I'll have to agree with tanatus there...</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ccffff size=3>It is indeed impressive that your group of 4 can kill instances a warlock or wizard can solo... </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>Well, not quite THAT impressive.. but still, you probably do them faster than the soloing sorcerer (there was a bard doing one of them too a while ago).</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>I'm sorry if i fail to see why it balances the class, or makes it even OK.. but that is probably just me.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>I'll still stand by the words, that the coercer in that group could have been replaced by a warlock without any loss in effectiveness.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>The perfect duo for places like those are actually one of each sorceror classes, then they just mow down the mobs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>

[Tanatus]

<P>Heh speaking of which Orki for [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and gigle me and my guildmate wizard (both char lvl 47) layed waste on LS gaint area duo.. Basically several times we had to fight 2 giant simutaniously. In the end we came to comclusion that with maximum we can probably handle killing 4-5 heroic giants at same time (no linked encounters) - provided if we can get em in tight enouth pack...</P> <P>True is that while my guild gathering for raid my warlock from boredrom always roaming around and solo every heroic mob he see ... coercer usually not picking even on solo mob bearing in mind how long it take to kill</P>

[Orki who Pos]

<DIV><FONT size=3>I'm still having problems with the lvl 50 ^^ giants (i'm only lvl 45) i seem to win about 50% of the time. (still ok xp, and tons of fun since one kill removes debt)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>My problem with the giants is that they can one-shot me at a decent range, so having a healer along dont help. Those barrages/whatever for 2250 are no fun when you have about 1800 hp.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Getting an initial resist is a killer, or getting two root resists in a row just as bony is about to expire  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Btw, If you havent allready, get bony grasp adept3'ed, it sticks and lasts significantly better on orange con heroics like that.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>PS: To those still having the hots for coercer crowd control.. the above is how a warlock handles a yellow/orange ^^ add.... He kills it. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Just like for the coercer, two resists in a row on an angry orange ^^ mob, kills the caster in one hit.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>

[Tanatus]

<P>Nah here is a trick...</P> <P>a) Bony have good range - cast it from max range</P> <P>b) If it stick debuff mob immideatly CoE have short range, CM have good range if it not stick just yell and run</P> <P>c) Never ever hesitate land FM to early - better be safe then sorry...At lvl 47 you'll get Cower - good root but tricky to use - you need first cancel all dots THEN land cower - it hold mob solid like a rock as long as mob not take any damage</P> <P>d) Generally speaking killing heroic mobs that +5 lvl to you not worth while, ideal prey is low yellow (+1 lvl), even or high blue (-1lvl). Btw you can hit giants with Curse of Nill (-44str/int) -it will soften barrage a lot</P>

[Cornbread_GA]

<DIV>I dont know what you whiney [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] keep crying about... I have no trouble soloing anything.   Hell, before they fixed the root / snare of ^^^ mobs, you could use Ego Blast and solo ^^^ like Seraph of the Stags (DONE IT BTW SIRS).   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Learn your class.   Stop [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing on the boards, and maybe practice a little? <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tinky Vonwinky, Hero of Kugup</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>I LOVE to see how you solo Seraf of Stags with Ego blast  and no mez or stuns</DIV>

[Cornbread_GA]

<P>Ego Blast and Psychic Wail both used to hit ^^^ mobs.   Now you know.</P> <P> </P> <P>Tinky Vonwinky, Hero of Kugup</P>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Lets see .... PW 3s cast 6s recast, EB root duration 6s ... sorry I dont see how one could solo using those spells ....</DIV> <DIV>Yes one could kite on horseback using wand  providing enouth space  and absence of adds .... but otherwise? no</DIV>

[Cornbread_GA]

<DIV>Every post you have ever made has been some pesimistic closed-minded view.... usually in whine-format.  I am here telling you how things CAN be done and you continue to doubt them, even though you yourself proposed a very valid solution.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe you could do unequivecal feats of uberness if you would TRY them, as opposed to rejecting the possibility w/o any investigation.  Before the patch which removed the ability to root or snare ^^^ mobs, it wasn't that difficult.  Another coercer on my server solod Ssith Rageclaw in RV (48^^^ if I'm not mistaken..).   Of course it is irrelevant and impossible now, but with a snare doll and some skill, <STRONG><U>ANY NPC that had no casting ability was VERY easy to dispatch</U></STRONG> <EM>prior to that patch</EM>.  A little creativity can go a long way.   Snare doll, Nuke wand, horseback..... all good and valid ideas, even if it is too late for you to act upon them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coercers world-wide [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and moan about how we are impotent and dependent upon other classes, and its simply <STRONG><U>not</U></STRONG> true.  We are just as capable as any other class of doing anything they can do... if not more so.  Experiment a little... go beyond the "NUKE STUN NUKE" mentality and expand your capabilities and knowledge of your class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Look long ago (right after wizards and warlocks been fixed and enchanters been promissed fix in next LU ... 5) I made an alt warlock... Once at LU5 SOE abandon thier promiss to fix coercers any time soon I said screw it - I want have fun NOW not 4-5 months from now... So I leveled my warlock to lvl 50... Well guess what I found that soloing named mobs with warlock is simply cake walk. Let me put this very simple and blant - if I can land Bony grasp on mobe that mean I WILL kill it. Why would I bother with spending 11-12 min on slow and risky killing Efreety lord with coercer then I walk in with my warlock and kill same efreety in 2-2.5min top 3X safer 6X faster. Look I soloed for a first time Tundra Jack with warlock at lvl 46 - you wellcome try solo em with coercer at lvl 50 and see how long it take (btw [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ers been beefed resently so be carefull). Killing named in FE was ... let say farming in spare time before raid start.</DIV> <DIV>Let me put this way with my coercer at lvl 44 I have soloed bloodtristy leopad (named lvl 46 kitty in EF) - took me nearly 20 min because of resists (in that time perplexity was interuptable and casting time was 4s and was no share dolls). Then I seen a picture of guardian who was soloing same kitty at lvl 46 in afk mode with just autoattack on ,,,, I said screw it.</DIV> <DIV>The only reason why I said about horse, snare and wand is point that ANY class solo heroic mobs but coercer is THE WORST at it. Please name me single class that solo worst then coercer there is none</DIV> <DIV>Please understand what 12-15 min per killing double arrow up for book quest aren't fall in most ppl conception of fun. Please understand that been a buff-bot on raid is not that most ppl enjoy in this game. If that would not be true you would see a lot more coercers roaming land...</DIV> <DIV>As it stands now? - practically noone playing coercers at lvl 50, you can see some ppl attempting to prove that veterans wrong about coercer and playing twinks. So what? right now that coercer crop just hitted lvl 37-40 aka brick wall, by lvl 45 they realize that class is boring play and gimpled beiond believe compare to ANY other class and everything will back to point where we started.</DIV>

[xev]

<P>At 50 and on raids what i use is:</P> <P>Seizure</P> <P>B-mind gorge (the training option)</P> <P>Ravaged psyche</P> <P>Agonizing Silence on raid adds</P> <P>CLARITY x24 people (which is the sux)</P> <P>That other DD spell (Despotic Mind?), to get thoughtstones.</P> <P>Mezz, depending on the raid.</P> <P>and Manashroud (when the main tank get low on power).</P> <P>Oh, and haste, which i don't think amounts to a whole lot.</P> <P>Most of the time, I'm justs casting Clarity. I get bored alot on raids to be honest. </P>

[Tanatus]

Actually coercer haste have 1 use lol .... good as timer for recasting crack - 2 groups - Haste - 2 more groups - once haste down time start recast crack