Beguile Works

[Bravnik]

<DIV>Yes...it does...as of 2/18/05</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just got Beguile and was in RV. At App1 I was able to Charm mobs Orange to me and the Charm lasted the full 36 Seconds each and every time. Never did it break early except when I actually got it to stick on a lvl 43 mob and it lasted about a second. But on Orange and below Beguile was lasting the full 36 Seconds with hardly ever a resist. Now this was in a group and I would Charm one of the Mobs in an Encounter Pull and have it beat on the mob the MT was fighting. I would then switch to assist the MT and keep my eye on the Charm icon. When it got close to wearing off, I would select my pet and wait for it to drop and recast Charm. However, I will tell you to let the Tank get a few taunts in before you cham otherwise after about 3 charms on the same pet, the Tank will not be able to pull it off you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also tested the breaking of the encounters. If you attack an Encounter (2 mobs in CL both ^ up) and then charm. The mob you attack will have agro on you the whole time and the encounter will not break. However, if you don't attack first and just Charm one of the mobs and it gets agro, then the encounter does break when the charm wears off. This might be a bug but possibly not and is intentional to keep us from soloing using Charm. I think it is a bug because the deterent of soloing using Charm is Instant Death as both mobs immediatly agro on you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In RV I was able to Charm any mob Orange and Below including ^ up mobs without any issues. I repeat, the spell lasted the full 36 seconds each and every time. The pet Follows, Guards even and you can move around and do Damage and cast spells all while the mob is charmed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This was at App1. I just got Beguile Adept 1 but it didn't show any changes to the spell when I applied it and I have not tested Adept 1 yet (It better still work after I upgraded the spell or I will be [Removed for Content])</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I took my new spell to RE for a bit and got in a lower level group. All I did was Charm mobs up before the Clays. The only issues I had was one or two resists and one time the pet went off and attacked without me telling it. Possibly I hit Guard Me by accident is why. It only happened one time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, it appears you can't Charm any ^^ + mobs. It says the mob is too powerful reguadless of level. I NEVER had the spell break the encounter while in group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway. As far as I'm concerned.....Beguile is fixed (Unless Adept 1 screws it up that is) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Sna]

<DIV><FONT size=1>Sure it works, it charms a mob and you can tell the mob to attack.....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1>Were you able to do all your usual DPS though when you had a pet charmed? Did you check to see if your damage actually went down while you had a pet charmed?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1>Beguile is  functional now and it makes a nice toy spell but I was hoping for something that would actually increase our DPS not just substitute one type of DPS for another. In all honesty I think you would have been doing more damage just using your old spells than charming a pet but I havent done any details analysis of that its just how it feels.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV>

[Bravnik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snaig wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT size=1>Sure it works, it charms a mob and you can tell the mob to attack.....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1>Were you able to do all your usual DPS though when you had a pet charmed? Did you check to see if your damage actually went down while you had a pet charmed?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1>Beguile is  functional now and it makes a nice toy spell but I was hoping for something that would actually increase our DPS not just substitute one type of DPS for another. In all honesty I think you would have been doing more damage just using your old spells than charming a pet but I havent done any details analysis of that its just how it feels.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Well I guess some people are never happy. We complain and complain that the charm does not stick for more than 1 sec on a Grey mob and they fix that and here you are complaining some more. I'm happy myself to be honest and parcing can tell if the pet does any good DPS. I think you need to wait for that before you cry some more.</P> <P>Don't you think?</P>

[Sna]

<DIV>Yeah your right, before I make sweeping statments like Beguile isnt working I should test it out properly, try different situations and bug the problems if I find any, not just jump right in there and say it isnt working before I know. Silly me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh wait! I did that already and it is bugged and not working properly as reported by several others on this forum.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are happy with beguile then I am happy you are happy but those of us who want something better are not necessarily wrong nor are we crying about it. Infact this board has had some of the most mature and calm posting I have seen on all the class boards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Happy charming.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[outputrotati]

<DIV>I noticed it worked last night as well.  I tried it out for hsits and giggles and it stuck.  I find its most effective against Single Arrow mobs.</DIV>

[Bravnik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snaig wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yeah your right, before I make sweeping statments like Beguile isnt working I should test it out properly, try different situations and bug the problems if I find any, not just jump right in there and say it isnt working before I know. Silly me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh wait! I did that already and it is bugged and not working properly as reported by several others on this forum.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are happy with beguile then I am happy you are happy but those of us who want something better are not necessarily wrong nor are we crying about it. Infact this board has had some of the most mature and calm posting I have seen on all the class boards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Happy charming.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>We begged to have it at least STICK and now it does. For the full 36 Secs. My comment to you was that you didn't even acknowledge the fact that having it at least stick now was a HUGE step. Instead you immediatly went to complaining that is still didn't work. My post was on the fact that it now STICKS and works as intended (IE. Sticking on mobs and lasting the full 36 seconds). Not the fact that it was just a fun spell or not really worth using. I was posting my happyness that it now was fixed per the descrition where before it was BROKE based on the description.</P> <P>However, I'm not sure if it helps or not as there is no way to know how much damage the pet is doing. The parcer I use does not see the pet. Our DPS might just go down because we are not really able to take our attention off the pet due to the short duration of the spell. So we can't really cast our damage spells on the target. But this is for debate in another topic after some testing has been done.</P> <P>As it stands now, it is just a fun spell to use. Not actually a class defining spell yet, but still usable. With some practice it might even be worth using regularly on group mobs. We will know over time and SOE I'm sure will monitor its use. After some testing has been done maybe we can get the time extended or something to make it a more class defining spell.</FONT></P>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Actually I can confirm that ...</DIV> <DIV>After 1 week none stop camping of WebClaw I finally manage to pop [Removed for Content] (1 of cheiftains for Torbin Eyepatch) knowing about [Removed for Content] agro that cause now our spells specally mez and tash (ravage psy) I was trying to cast annoing damenator on tank but accidently hit beguile.... to my HUGE supirise it sticked like a glue on lvl 49 yellow conned to me goblin...</DIV> <DIV>Hint:</DIV> <DIV>Fastest way brake charm - "dismiss pet" command ,,,,</DIV>

[vic2]

<DIV>Fixing something that should never have been broken in the first place does not warrant a pat on the back.</DIV>

[Nerj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>Actually I can confirm that ...</DIV> <DIV>After 1 week none stop camping of WebClaw I finally manage to pop [Removed for Content] (1 of cheiftains for Torbin Eyepatch) knowing about [Removed for Content] agro that cause now our spells specally mez and tash (ravage psy) I was trying to cast annoing damenator on tank but accidently hit beguile.... to my HUGE supirise it sticked like a glue on lvl 49 yellow conned to me goblin...</DIV> <DIV>Hint:</DIV> <DIV>Fastest way brake charm - "dismiss pet" command ,,,,</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Question?</P> <P>With they way our spells work, i.e. -- if I target MT and cast damge spell it hits MT target, if heal spell hits MT, does it work that way with a "charmed" pet?</P>

[Petgroup]

<DIV>Beguile does stick now, the pet does do damage, I can get hit for 2k damagge and still have mob charmed, he can get hit for 6k damage and still be my pet, I can run around for 36 seconds with him.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now for the bad part, it still lasts 36 secs, should be at least 3min & the random no experience bug is still in effect. I killed a few lizards in Lavastorm on the beach. I got xp 50% of the time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Beguile is still broke but its on its way to where it should be. This is a plus for us :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Icewolf99]

yeah 36 seconds is next to useless 3 mins would barely be enough 5 or 10 mins more reasonable. Then again all other games let you keep charmed pet as long as you want, then again SOE thinks their way is the only way.

[outputrotati]

<DIV>36 seconds is fine.  If you take longer to kill something then you're doing something wrong.</DIV>

[Icewolf99]

You are kidding right? When I fight group mobs, it takes me way over 36 seconds, I've taken over a couple of minutes more times than I can count. 36 seconds is only 4 or 5 casts. It takes me that many to kill most solo mobs a few levels into grey. I'm currently level 28 with all spells adept 1 or app IV.

[Blub]

Beguile ist not supposed to be used to solo group mobs. If it ever does this, it would get nerved pretty fast.I think its pretty fine the way it is now, except the encounter bug.

[Huskyla]

<DIV>Beguile has been working pretty good for me as of late.  I still get an occassion broken encounter, and can't tell if its completely random or due to some combination of group spells being used.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the 36 seconds, IMO its not bad.  I'd prefer a little more time .. around 1 minute.  With 36 seconds, casting twice on a mob is down-right dangerous right now for extended fights.  With buff and charm agro, the tank may have a hell of a job getting the mob off of you, probably impossible if you cast Beguile more than twice.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As is, I usually charm once, and then just lay off after the first mob.  I suppose if there are multiple mobs left after the first Beguile that I could switch to another target and charm, but I haven't been that brave.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Curious question as well.  Has anyone charmed a caster class like a priest and seen them heal your party?</DIV>

[Aoi]

<DIV>Here is what my own testing of Beguile has uncovered:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Per the OP, it does indeed work in every was he has explained.  You asked for more testing, and here is a post by someone who has done some as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I personally don't think DPS is the end-all-be-all test for charm usefeulness.  If you are going to complain that nuking will give you better DPS, then of course you have to add on the mitigation of the dmg that the tank would have taken.  Think of Beguile as a mes that DoTs the MA mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do have something to add regarding why charm breaks encounters.  I am 39 with adept1 Beguile, and this testing was done fighting at the farm in RV.  When charming mobs in relatively short fights, not once did it break the encounter.  However, when we got an add fighting a double-up scarecrow, I charmed the add and kept it charmed via recast for about 2 full minutes (caster mob).  On about the 5th recharm, the encounter broke on the double-up.  After I released the charmed mob, it indeed gave exp to the group and could not be taunted off me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hypothesize that the encounter broke when the charmed mob's dmg output exceeded the rest of my group.  I have not attempted to use charm to solo (its just not effificent), so I cannot say if the theory of the charmed mob taking agro breaks encounters as well (though it admittedly makes sense).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Additionally, I am currently able to charm more than one at a time.  The pet window will command all of them in unison, and release all when commanded as well, regardless of elapsed spell duration.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So how much of this is intended?  No idea.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cyene</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Few more updates here ....</DIV> <DIV>Beguile have fairly high lvl cap ... lvl 49 mobs still easy charmable, for best result use Ravage first then Beguile</DIV> <DIV>Beguile cannt be casted on double arrow mobs at Apprentice 4 lvl (any different with Adepts?)</DIV> <DIV>Beguile in sence AE attack of coercer - aka usuable with max efficiency only if you fight pack or boss pack</DIV> <DIV>Beguile can be effective CC in  case if you have add as pack (2 mob at least) </DIV> <DIV>Beguile have fairly good resistance rate aka its rarely get resisted</DIV> <DIV>Best way to end up beguile - press dismiss pet and immideatly cast stun (Eeri Focus)</DIV> <DIV>Pets have full array of special attack of original mob (lol seen what can do pyreduke and diviner of Tyrr pet in Solusek Eye ... nice mildly say)</DIV> <DIV>All I can say thanks SOE for fixing Beguile today I felt like a true coercer in Solusek charming every multimob encounter with great success</DIV>

[outputrotati]

<DIV>It's not terribly effective in dealing with adds.  The reason is that if he fights another encounter, it will break and you won't get rewards.  This is probably a bug and should be fixed</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Beguile kind of sucks with a aggro-weak tank like a paladin.  It is awesome with other classes that can hold aggro well though.</DIV>

[Bravnik]

<DIV>I played a LOT with Charm this weekend. The more I play with it the more I like it. Yesterday in RV we were killing the NightBloods. These I swear were made for charm. A lot of the mobs come in 2's one being Double Up the other Single Up. Told the MT I will Charm the single and it worked very very well. Noticable differance in the fights if there was no charmed mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The most I have found that you can Charm without getting serious agro after is 2 times (Using a Guardian or Zerker, One time with Pally or SK). I normally use Dismiss Pet and then Stun the mob with my long time stun. By this time the Tank should have gotten agro back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's best to tell the MT to AOE Taunt before you Charm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I didn't realize we could Charm more than one pet. That rocks as Charm is a good way to perform CC on mobs that resist Mez.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also found that Charm is a better way to pull a mob off an overnuking Wiz or Priest. Beguile casts faster than Mez and is less resistant on those "Get it off now or their dead" situations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The biggest thing charm brings to the group is FUN. Yes FUN for everyone. As an example:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yesterday in RV, as I stated above, we were killing NBs. I was using charm and having a blast. Couple times I got bad agro after and came close to dieing. That and the fact everyone had never played with a charming Coercer before, the group complained that maybe Charm was not a good idea. So I stopped using it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guess what, not 5m later the group said they where bored with the grind. The healers where complaining that they had a ton of power and nothing to use it on and the MT was talking about how boring it was to tank. I said "Do you want me to start using Charm again" and the reply was YES! The reason? It kept them on their toes. It added a new flavor to the group. I got hit so the healers had to keep their eyes on me. The MT had to watch his pulls and target the proper mobs. I called my Charms and Called my Breaks. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Charm brings something to groups that was not there before. FUN and Skill. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course, you have to know when and where to use Charm. That is a given.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Manusra]

<DIV>Great news, I just hit 37 and am looking forward to messing with it.</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Can anyone confirm that we can have more then pet with charm? if so ... it might be a little overpowered. </DIV>

[Aoi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>Can anyone confirm that we can have more then pet with charm? if so ... it might be a little overpowered. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Yes, I can confirm this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, when you factor in the cast time and time to re-target, the 36 sec duration is hardly enough to do any real damage with 2 pets.  I doubt it is intended, but its hardly useable even with that ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, the adept1 Beguile did not allow me to charm a double-up arrow, FYI.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cyene</DIV>

[Shagittari]

<DIV>The biggest problem I have with beguile is that after a mob is charmed group members can no longer use Tab to target nearest enemy.  Once a mob is charmed it must be mouse clicked to be targeted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This pisses off almost everyone in the group and there is no end to the complaints every time I use it.  I tried to tell them that Coercers don't have the luxury of using Tab to target beacuse its at best unreliable but they didn't care it created more work for them and changed their play style.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Heres to hoping this targeting issue gets resovled so I'm not told not to use charm.</DIV>

[outputrotati]

<DIV>The only person that should have to target mobs is the tank.  Everyone else should have '/assist tanksname' macros.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Shagittari]

<DIV>That doesn't mean that people don't complain.  I was reporting a bug not asking for your help on how to play the game.</DIV> <P>In the situation I was reporting we had 3 tanks that were taking turns.  After all since tanks do so much damage its not unusual to have lots of them in a group.  They all complained when I used the spell, talking back and forth as to how annoying it is. <P>  <P>I told them it was payback for all the mezzes they broke.</P><p>Message Edited by Shagittarius on <span class=date_text>02-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:52 PM</span>

[Bravnik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shagittarius wrote:<BR> <DIV>That doesn't mean that people don't complain.  I was reporting a bug not asking for your help on how to play the game.</DIV> <P>In the situation I was reporting we had 3 tanks that were taking turns.  After all since tanks do so much damage its not unusual to have lots of them in a group.  They all complained when I used the spell, talking back and forth as to how annoying it is. <P>  <P><STRONG>I told them it was payback for all the mezzes they broke.</STRONG></P> <P>Message Edited by Shagittarius on <SPAN class=date_text>02-23-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:52 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>LoL - I use Charm for the exact same reason at times. I'm trying my best to mez a mob and they keep breaking it with AOE. So I charm one, thus taking it out of combat and use it as a DOT.<BR>