Consolidated List of Coercer Issues

[Nibbl]

<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Please note - This thread has been closed/moved to the new v2.0 on the spells/abilities board. That thread was started per a request for a mod I will be keeping it updated with all feedback from this board and that board in a clean manner to they can make some use of it</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=34176" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=34176</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for your support in this class... we will get it turned around!</DIV><p>Message Edited by Nibbles on <span class=date_text>03-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:52 AM</span>

[Nibbl]

<DIV>Please add onto this list and I will update the top thread as often as possible until we have a full list compiled. Also, please only comment about spells you have 1st hand experience with. Do not comment on spells that you *hear* from others as broken as it does not really add an creadence to this list.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hopefully some lvl 50 coercers can comment on the higher spells and if we have issues there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV>

[Ol'b]

<DIV>Level 28 -  Despotic mind : this spell does far too much damage for level 28.  </DIV> <DIV>  > Level 42 - Tyrannical mind (despotic mind upgrade): Needs to be upgraded with either more damage or add an interrupt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 24 - Simple Minds : terrible dmg vs power cost .. I dont think anyone uses this spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 24/37 - Sibyllant/Haurspex : Not sure many use this either , would be nice if the spell would trigger upon death also. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 35 - Empathic link : Very seldom does this spell proc (I'm not  sure it does at all), causing most coercers to not use it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 38 - Annoying Demeanor : This spell has great potential , if it just worked a little better.. I only have Adept 1 and it dosent work that well. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But mainly Beguile needs to be tweaked, this crap up there ^^ is prolly just me dreaming..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Actually Haruspex is my primary AE attack ....</DIV>

[Gnus]

<blockquote><hr>Ol'boy wrote:<DIV>Level 28 -  Despotic mind : this spell does far too much damage for level 28.  </DIV><hr></blockquote>What? LOL... a 24th level wizard gets a 300 damage spell... I think it is ok for our level.... Nice attitude... I'm past 28th, so I'll nerf all the up and coming coercers, but fix my spells...

[Dro]

<DIV>I agree on all the spells, but not on the Very Light Armor issue - it shouldn't mitigate more - we should either get better avoidance (since we are wearing practiically nothing and carrying almost no weight) or have some Magical Rune that wards or buffs mitigation. We don't want to tank - we just want to live long enough to do our CC job.</DIV>

[Ol'b]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>What? LOL... a 24th level wizard gets a 300 damage spell... I think it is ok for our level.... Nice attitude... I'm past 28th, so I'll nerf all the up and coming coercers, but fix my spells... <HR> </P> <P>Im sry i should have been more clear . The damage on despotic mind is fine , my problem is the difference between despotic mind and tyranical mind. One being level 28 and one 42 there is not much diff. in dmg at all .  </P>

[Ol'b]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Actually Haruspex is my primary AE attack .... <HR> </DIV> <P> </P> <P>Dosent that make you sad ? I have adept 1 and it hits for 160 on avg id say. A level 34 or 35 Inquisitor spell Heritic flames is an AOE(triggers when a mob dies, so it never goes unproced like Haurspex can) does on avg 200+ dmg( to the entire group including dead target) and has a much much shorter recast time allowing it to be used more than once in a group encounter of non arrow mobs. Shouldent an offensive enchanter be able to do more aoe dmg than a cleric ?</P>

[Fendrak]

You should add the issue with the Maintained Spell window that only displays 12 buffs. That makes it quite hard when you have to keep your group buffed with refresh and mez a lot of mobs. They never said anything about it, I am pretty sure it's a bug. I was hoping it would get fixed quickly but I was proved wrong once again.

[Nibbl]

<DIV>Ol'boy, can you give deeper descriptiosn of some of these spells? I am only 35 atm so for some spells, I do not know what their inteded purpose is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other than that, keep the list coming!</DIV>

[Gnus]

<blockquote><hr>Ol'boy wrote:<DIV><HR></DIV><P>Im sry i should have been more clear . The damage on despotic mind is fine , my problem is the difference between despotic mind and tyranical mind. One being level 28 and one 42 there is not much diff. in dmg at all .  </P><hr></blockquote>Ok, my bad... I did mis understand... knee-jerk sarcasm retracted...I second the buff window needing more than 12 buffs.. Also, there are a few levels (until 39.6) where there are orange and yellow mobs we can't mes (can't mes 41+). They should up the max level for mesmerize so we don't have those few levels where our CC is greatly diminished.

[Uuzi_Fai]

We need to be able to see who broke the mez.

[Nibbl]

<DIV>List is growing... I know there have got to be more issues out there. Can any higher level coercers comment on the spells and possible issues/solutions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV>

[mino]

<DIV>Its absolutely ridiculous that I get out dpsed by tanks that are only 3 levels higher ... and I am not talking about 1 or 2 points here ... we are talking on average they were doing 50-67 dps and even when I focused completely on DPS the highest I could manage was around 35-40 this is ridiculous I would understand this if we had decent CC but in EQ2 our CC is really substandard therefore we need to at least be able to do some damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>oh at the time we were parsing this I was 29 and the tanks were 32</DIV><p>Message Edited by minobu on <span class=date_text>02-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:40 PM</span>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>If you cannt out DPS tanks at your 30s its your faults not game mechanic</DIV> <DIV>Untill up to lvl 35-37 I was out DPS every single class in game period</DIV> <DIV>Back to problems </DIV> <DIV>They do exist but its not something that make class unplayable</DIV> <DIV>Our proc line totaly broken - supose to add mental DD upon attack but it dont ... (Empathic and Synergetic Links)</DIV> <DIV>Beguile - according to spell description its not broken .... but in sence it useless 0-1% chance to charm??? </DIV> <DIV>Agonizing Silence is somethat broken because we can use Withering Silence for Stifle raid mobs and cannt use upgrade for same purpose....</DIV> <DIV>Our 50 spells totaly broken - its copy and paste of lvl 44 Ilusionist spell basically short duration AE stun that cost 500 power</DIV> <DIV>And last but not least...</DIV> <DIV>We do NOT have single upgrade for offensive spells in our lvl 40+</DIV> <DIV>Adept 3 tier 1 protean spells AS GOOD AS adept 1 tier 2 protean spells at lvl 50</DIV> <DIV>Masters from tier 1 protean spells SUPERIOR over adept 1-3 tier 2 protean spells</DIV>

[Nibbl]

<DIV>Hmm,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have not seen that, espically around teh high 20's to low 30's. I can out damage my entire group if I concentrate on DPS. Only class that can out do me is a scout.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I normally toss on 2 debuffs, HO my despotic mind and mind jolt, tosee anotehr DoT, back to HO again, and then repeat until the mob is dead. I can get 50-70 DPS depending on the mob if we are fighting 1 target.</DIV>

[Nibbl]

<DIV>dbl post</DIV><p>Message Edited by Nibbles on <span class=date_text>02-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:07 PM</span>

[Enkan]

<DIV>After the last patch on 02/17/05 my DPS is still lower than a figther and a scout class!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Based on the information that has been released by Sony, the Archtype of mages are suppose to be the no.1 in DPS followed by the scout classes, figther and then lastly the priest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As it stands now any scout class can out damage me. Yes I do have stuns and mez along with haste and breeze but that should not take away from my ability to do damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just like there are plenty of different ways for the Archtype of Priest to heal I should also be able to do damage to my targets and outdamage any scout class. Right now that is not so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do remember Moogard saying that Enchanters and Summoners would be looked at soon on their roles on DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the interim I am creating a Wizard just in case. I do not expect neither want my Enchanter to do the same damage as a Wizard/Warlock but for the Archtype sake please allow us to do more damage than the scouts and figther thru our DoT's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Enkanto try first upgrade you spells at least to Adept 1 lvl... Dont expect that you can out DPS scout if you spells at App2-4 lvl...</DIV> <DIV>Personally I prefer keep my primary offense at very least Adept 3 lvl and buying at first occasion Master 1</DIV>

[Nibbl]

<DIV>Do we not have any other issues with spells at this time? Also, has anyone tried the new beguile... looking at other posts, it may have been fixed somewhat. Any comments on the new spell change?</DIV>

[mino]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you cannt out DPS tanks at your 30s its your faults not game mechanic</DIV> <DIV>Untill up to lvl 35-37 I was out DPS every single class in game period</DIV> <DIV>Back to problems </DIV> <DIV>They do exist but its not something that make class unplayable</DIV> <DIV>Our proc line totaly broken - supose to add mental DD upon attack but it dont ... (Empathic and Synergetic Links)</DIV> <DIV>Beguile - according to spell description its not broken .... but in sence it useless 0-1% chance to charm??? </DIV> <DIV>Agonizing Silence is somethat broken because we can use Withering Silence for Stifle raid mobs and cannt use upgrade for same purpose....</DIV> <DIV>Our 50 spells totaly broken - its copy and paste of lvl 44 Ilusionist spell basically short duration AE stun that cost 500 power</DIV> <DIV>And last but not least...</DIV> <DIV>We do NOT have single upgrade for offensive spells in our lvl 40+</DIV> <DIV>Adept 3 tier 1 protean spells AS GOOD AS adept 1 tier 2 protean spells at lvl 50</DIV> <DIV>Masters from tier 1 protean spells SUPERIOR over adept 1-3 tier 2 protean spells</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> </DIV>I know in your infinite wisdom your thoughts are so enlightening but I do have my spells upgraded and I cast ALL of my damage spells even the grey ones and the dots so don't tell me in your eloquent way :smileyindifferent: that I don't know how to play my class I might not be in my 40s but I most certainly can tell when my damage is off if I have all adept 1 damage spells and so do the tanks I should not have to use HOs to outdamage them give me a break.  When I do use HOs yes my damage goes up but lets compare apples to apples here if they are not using HOs I SHOULD NOT have to use HOs to equal or outdamage them.  Just so you know Sony must agree as they are looking at our damage according to Moorgaurd.

[Kna]

Personally, I was really disappointed with Forced Hesitation. It is the upgrade for binding light but binding light is a far superior spell. I'd use binding light over Forced Hesitation forever, exect binding light no longer works on MOBs around my level. Binding light has a 1 sec cast time which makes it a very useful soloing spell and a back up CC spell. On the other hand, Forced Hesitation has a 3 sec casting time which really makes it pretty useless IMO compared to most of the other spells we use. It'd be ok if the root didn't break when the MOB was attacked, but if you lock a guy down with forced Hesitation, if he gets hit, it pretty much always breaks, making it about as effective as a slow casting mez spell that still lets the MOB attack. You would think our upgrade spells would improve as we level up, not get worse, which is what has happened with this spell.

[Nibbl]

<DIV>Updated w/  Forced Hesitation issue</DIV>

[Shagittari]

<DIV>Please add more info to beguile, After a mob has been charmed players cant use 'Target NEarest Enemy' key to target the previously charmed mob.  This causes people to ask us not to use beguile in group situations.</DIV>

[Blackguard]

Thanks for the list.

[DionysosTom]

<DIV>One problem : it seems that a charmed mob which charm has ended, keep all the buffs (reverse proc , regen, but also all the groupbuff such as HP, AC.... it makes him really tough to fight when the fight doesnt broke &nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nice post even if I can not agree on the first point all the other point seems what I saw from the coercer of the group <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tomas</DIV>

[ClawHammr]

<DIV>Guess I wont be rerolling a Coercer !  Is there ANY class that isnt heavily bugged?</DIV>

[Sondr]

<DIV>since this list obvioulsy gets some attention.. could you pls add psychic wail to it? (its strangly the exact same spell as the AE stun - demoralizing gaze or what its called)</DIV><p>Message Edited by Sondrax on <span class=date_text>02-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:27 AM</span>

[Dro]

<DIV>Can you update to mention the problems with root line since the last content patch - ie the root breaking immediately, or on HO trigger,  or just...</DIV> <DIV>An additional nice to have - resist messages appearing in text window rather than as graphics above the mobs head</DIV> <DIV>Some white and lower spells are still fizzeling despite what last patch said.</DIV> <DIV>Will racial traditions be moved to the new buff timers - they are currently still 3 mins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Clarat]

<DIV>As a 50 coercer, my biggest concern is that Adept 3 is NOT an upgrade to Adept 1 or less.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as I can tell this is the case in many classes.  Considering the rarity of Rubies, is it really meant that spending huge cash to upgrade a spell has basically no effect?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm appreciate that we seem to have been getting some attention lately, but this is a big issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Adept III beguile lasts 36 seconds, I believe the Adept 1 shows the same.  Since they both show 0-1% chance of working, as far as I can tell, Adept 1=Adept 3.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A near master of a spell should last longer than the base 36 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other than that I'm very happy with my class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A bonus would be:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seeing who broke the mez</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ability to see more buffs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Having thoughstone generation linked to something other than Tyrannical Mind (its embarassing when you are trying to dispatch a lvl 30 npc for some reason, and can't use your big nukes to take it out)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 47 Fatal Hesitation, at Adept 1, breaks within seconds on ANYTHING i cast it on.  It's root/10% slow.  I'd be way happier ditching the slow aspect, and make it an effective root/dot or something.  I assume it breaks so often because the slow would be overpowered - ditch the slow component for something else and make it last longer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make thoughstones rentable.. I don't see the overpowering of this, after a typical night i can end up with 80 or more.  All it means is that it is a royal pain when I login to get the initial thoughtstone.  I logged in tonight, to go to Cove of D to fight that angler, I had to take a 20 min detour into varsoons to fight things to get that initial thoughstone to begin the fight in CoD.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Try finding something in Thundering Steps that'll get you a thoughstone - everything is lvl 25-31, so you can't use Tyrannical Mind (spell too powerful), everything i tried Haruspex on was spell too powerful.</DIV>

[Dro]

<DIV><FONT size=2> <P>[double post deleted]</P></FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Droo2 on <span class=date_text>02-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:19 AM</span>

[ericb1]

Aye. The root (Binding Lights) breaking problem is the biggest issue for me at my level currently (29). It is breaking immediately so often I spend 10 minutes running around trying to kill a mob that should take 30 seconds. It breaks early, often breaks immediately on landing it (no resist message), seemingly breaks often when pressing the HO starter button (this might be coincidence but it happens so often that I'm not sure it is). Before this patch I felt it worked as it should. Sometimes resisted, sometimes broke early. Now it's an exercise in futility.Also the root teleport bug is there. Sometimes you root the mob and it teleports to you. From this point forward it continues to teleport to you regardless of what you cast...roots, stuns, mezzes.

[Shagittari]

<DIV>I also wanted to comment on our AoE Mezmerize spell.  This spell is not so useful would be nice if at least we could cast single target mezzes on mobs currently mezzed by our group mez and not have both the effects wear off when the group effect wears off.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That would be more useful without modifying the entire way the spell works.</DIV>

[Gnus]

<blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:Thanks for the list.<hr></blockquote>I missed it the first time I was checking on this... but y'all realize we did get a reply... It would be great if they start looking at this stuff...

[mino]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Claratar wrote:<BR> <DIV>As a 50 coercer, my biggest concern is that Adept 3 is NOT an upgrade to Adept 1 or less.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as I can tell this is the case in many classes.  Considering the rarity of Rubies, is it really meant that spending huge cash to upgrade a spell has basically no effect?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm appreciate that we seem to have been getting some attention lately, but this is a big issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Adept III beguile lasts 36 seconds, I believe the Adept 1 shows the same.  Since they both show 0-1% chance of working, as far as I can tell, Adept 1=Adept 3.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A near master of a spell should last longer than the base 36 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other than that I'm very happy with my class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A bonus would be:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seeing who broke the mez</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ability to see more buffs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Having thoughstone generation linked to something other than Tyrannical Mind (its embarassing when you are trying to dispatch a lvl 30 npc for some reason, and can't use your big nukes to take it out)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 47 Fatal Hesitation, at Adept 1, breaks within seconds on ANYTHING i cast it on.  It's root/10% slow.  I'd be way happier ditching the slow aspect, and make it an effective root/dot or something.  I assume it breaks so often because the slow would be overpowered - ditch the slow component for something else and make it last longer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make thoughstones rentable.. I don't see the overpowering of this, after a typical night i can end up with 80 or more.  All it means is that it is a royal pain when I login to get the initial thoughtstone.  I logged in tonight, to go to Cove of D to fight that angler, I had to take a 20 min detour into varsoons to fight things to get that initial thoughstone to begin the fight in CoD.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Try finding something in Thundering Steps that'll get you a thoughstone - everything is lvl 25-31, so you can't use Tyrannical Mind (spell too powerful), everything i tried Haruspex on was spell too powerful.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I was curious don't know if its different for you at 50 as I am only 33 but couldn't you go find a grey mob and cast despotic mind or sibylant (well sib wouldn't work they would never hit you =) )  or will really low grey mobs no longer produce thoughtstones because I could swear that I had gotten thoughtstones from casting despotic mind on grey mobs before as they just have to die before impairment gone ... ??</P> <P>I am probably missing something but was just curious because when I hit 50 that would suck pretty bad to take 20 minutes to get first thoughtstone</P>

[Nibbl]

<DIV>Clawhammer - the class is a fun class... just needs some work. If you are looking for the perfect class with no issue, you have a long road ahead of you...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sondrax - I have no experience with Psychic Wall... could you give a brief description of what it is supposed to do and what is seems to do when cast?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, list has been updated... keep the ideas rolling in!</DIV>

[Breez_Bay]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Having thoughstone generation linked to something other than Tyrannical Mind (its embarassing when you are trying to dispatch a lvl 30 npc for some reason, and can't use your big nukes to take it out)</P> <P> <HR> </P> <P>I agree 100%.  In the 30s it is the exact same story with Despotic Mind.  I could 1-2 shot mobs if I could cast it but because it produces a thought stone I get the message spell is too powerful.</P> <P>Couldn't they just make it so that the works fine on greys, but does not produce a thought stone?</P> <P>Also the mezz stacking issue sucks.  For the few levels I can use Mezz and my training Mezz it is a nightmare that the both stop working when the oldest wears off.  Keeping 4 mobs mezzed AND remebering which mezz was on which mob is a nightmare.</P> <P>/em prepares to dodge rotten tomatos</P> <P>Has anyone asked if Refresh and Breez are supposed to stack?</P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Gnus]

Breez_bayou... that issue has been fixed. Mes no longer drops just because the oldest one drops... Mes's Stack if you will.... oh, and stuns stack too...

[Nibbl]

<DIV>Yeah, think that has been fixed... ive noticed it in Live which is nice.  As for bereeze and refresh, they are not supposed to stack. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Probably a bug that they are not on the same timer</DIV>

[Shagittari]

<DIV>Breeze and refresh is not a bug that they are not on the same timer.  During one patch they made them both on the same timer.  Then they said this was a mistake and moved them back to seperate timers.  If you cast both at once you will only get the bonus of the higher level one so they dont really stack.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Shagittarius on <span class=date_text>02-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:16 PM</span>

[xxalan]

<DIV>don't forget coecers are enchanters too so put some issues with low lvls up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was in a group with another enchanter a while back, and i was 19 and he was 18.  After he hit 18.6, he scribed his breeze adept III, and laughed at me because i could only afford appr IV.  So I asked him what his regen rate was, he said 11 every 6 seconds(or something like that). I had recently reset all my files, so my obscenity filter was on, therefore I don't know exactly what he said when I told him mine was doing the exact same(granted 1 lvl higher), but I think it was something to the effect of, "hey, this wasn't worth paying 15 gold for."  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also blink says it will teleport me but i have never had it happen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Great thread btw, it is nice to see someone trying to help their own class without whining, and presenting reasonnable solutions, rather than whining about another class being better *cough mayo cough*.</DIV>

[xtroze]

<DIV>Bah post lag</DIV><p>Message Edited by xtrozero on <span class=date_text>02-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:35 AM</span>

[xtroze]

<DIV>AOE mez needs to act like normal mez where the mob stays mez until it is hit without all loosing mez if anyone of the mobs are hit. As it is now I would say it has been useful zero times for the last 10 levels.  Our root upgrade is really bad. I do not understand the logic how an upgrade from level 20s to 30s takes 3 times as long to cast.  That would be like a wizard gets an upgrade nuke that does the same damage but takes 3 times longer to cast. Many upgrades from app1 to adept 3 are so low that it makes no reason to upgrade many of our spells. Our haste spells from app1 to adept 1 is 2% more. Big woop!! SOE for once actually look as the spells and either just do away with them or give us something we can use and something we would want to pay 2pp to upgrade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like so many other spells it seems that SOE is afraid that they might be too powerful and they end up making the spells basically worthless in any situation.  Even with many negitive draw backs that is not enough. I guess a class like the wizard that just needs to target the MA turn their back to the fight a nuke as 99% of their efforts needs more look at then a class that does a half a dozen things in one fight alone. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The bottom line is we want DoT that we can depend on to give us good damage to power to cast, a fix to the mez, root, charm etc problems. If you really want us to have all these useless spells or spells that become downgrades then this class is going nowhere fast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by xtrozero on <span class=date_text>02-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:42 AM</span>

[Dro]

<DIV>I had occasion to use our AE Mez a few times over the weekend, and noticed that although it works - when the spell refresh counter on it seems to start from the time it ends - so you can't keep the encounter mez'd. Anyone else notiuce this? seems like a bug to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dro]

<DIV>Can you please update the root/teleport issue as it's not just mobs teleporting - this happened since day 1 - but that roots in general seem to be broken since hte last patch.</DIV>

[Nibbl]

<DIV>droo2 - </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does the AoE Mez break when other mobs are hit in the group? I will have to test this when I get back on later this week. It would make the spell somewhat worth casting again when you pull 12 goblins at once...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a side note, I pulled out the damage parser to see where my 35 coercer stacked up... I was amazed to find myself outdamaged by a guardian in guardian stance! I was laying on the damage as best I could (deebuff, nuke, HO, Master I nuke, more debuffs, more nukes) Basically, the most damage I can lay out and I came up at the bottom of the stack. Only person who was worse was the cleric who just healed...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think our damage needs to looked at brought in line with others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My reasoning would be equal to a scout but not a wizard... but thats just me</DIV>

[Shagittari]

<DIV>Yes the only class I can outdamage is the cleric, and if i get a ressist or 2 and the cleric is nuking they can come pretty close to outdamaging me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The best damage that i've found is to cast your 2 debuff spells then chain nuke your 3 major nuke lines.  When the debuffs run out cast them again.  Throw in mind gorge if your waiting for a spell to refresh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you spend the time landing all of our DOT lines you will do less damage then just all out nuking.</DIV>

[Jos]

<P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffcc>Thank you Nibbles for this list. <FONT color=#ccff00>I am a level 38 Coercer and can confirm ALL of these issues.</FONT> The most disturbing to me are the long casting times for our root (Forced Hesitation - upgrade for Blinding Light), and short duration stun (Bewilder - upgrade to level 18 stun) The result of these two issues now makes it impossible to quickly get a mob off you. The ONLY way to solo is to be able to land a stifle and then TANK the mob. (It may help if the root did not break almost immediately, even without the mob taking damage.)</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#00cc99>***Nibbles - Please add to the list some issues I discovered regarding the Beguile spell.***</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccff00>The first issue with Beguile is that after the pet is released it still retains ALL of the 'group' buffs.</FONT> <FONT color=#ffffcc>That means the pet which is now coming straight for you is buffed to the gills with Haste, (group power regen when I get it), Priest buffs that increase Stamina/HP/AC/etc.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ccff00>The second issue is that if you then cast "Dispel Arcane" on the former pet, it actually Cancels ALL those group buffs on your own party! </FONT><FONT color=#ffffcc>Now the mob is officially no longer part of your group, yet casting Dispel Arcane will cancel your group buffs for EVERYONE in your party. I don't think "Dispel Arcane" even works that way when you cast it on a regular mob (one that hasn't been charmed). <SPAN> </SPAN>As far as I can tell it only has a chance to dispel the single mob you targeted, not the whole group of mobs. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffcc>The result is that you either have to contend with a fully buffed former pet coming to eat your lunch, or you cancel all of your party’s group buffs!</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffcc></FONT></SPAN> </P> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffcc>Thanks again for starting this thread!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffcc></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffcc>peace and safe travels,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffcc></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffcc>Josza - lvl 38 Barbarian Coercer</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffcc>The Walking Dead - Liaison Officer</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffcc>Lucan D'Lere</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

[Encantador]

<DIV>Could you add an irritation to the list. The Recklessness spell can be cast at any time while it is active, but once it fades then the recast timer starts. This is very irritating as I must monitor this buff as it comes towards the end of its 10 minutes. I don't mind monitoring things like mezz which are part of each fight, but I do think buffs should be cast or recast as needed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nibbl]

<DIV>encanta</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allot of our spells are like that. If you refresh them prior to expiring you do not have to wait but if you let it fall, then you have to wait on the timer. I think this is part of the design as it spans multiple spell lines and other classes encounter the same thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, updated the main list with new infromation and updates. Please keep the input coming and let me know if any of the issues are addressed.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Nibbles on <span class=date_text>03-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:44 AM</span>

[Nima]

To add in the 'nice to have' section : * Under a charm spell, mob should be tagged with 'pet' suffix. * Add an option to filter pet dmg. * A warning message on stiffle/drain spell line. On some encounters stiffle/drain lands but they ONLY drain !Time to time, I noticed even if you give the order to attack. Pet stays static.Charm duration extension is a good idea. It should be at least @ 52/60 seconds but I am against recharm factor.Iyah

[Cazhm]

<DIV>Nice list going <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would like to add that coercers cannot group together and be effective. The higher level coercer will overwrite any lower level coercer dots, mezzes, roots etc ( i understand why breeze etc doesnt stack together ). Just cuz same class shouldn't mean that you can no longer contribute. I know assassin's have some of the same issues together and I am sure other classes as well. But it was one of the reasons I came to EQ2 was that groups didnt have to be perfect set of classes to succeed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ghouli]

<DIV>You mentioned 1 spell where the upgrade is virtually the same as the spell it replaced</DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____</DIV> <DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT face=Verdana size=2><STRONG>Level 42 - </STRONG>Tyrannical Mind <STRONG>-</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><SPAN> <FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2><SPAN><STRONG>Issue:</STRONG></SPAN><SPAN><STRONG> </STRONG>This spell is labeled as an upgrade to our level 28 damage spell. As a level 42 spell, the amount of damage over its original spell is almost non existent.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2><SPAN><STRONG>Solution:</STRONG> </SPAN><SPAN>Increase Dmg output of this spell by some factor greater than 15%.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In actual fact I don't think any of our Damage spells after about LVL 32 is an upgrade,  things such as Discomforting gaze, Siezure and Torment are names only and again do virtually nothing above the spells thay supposedly replace.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't have figures on me but i'm sure somebody on this forum can supply.</DIV> <DIV><SPAN><SPAN><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <P><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2><SPAN><SPAN></FONT></FONT> </P></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>

[Scally W]

<DIV>Another beguile bug....  When a pet is charmed multiple times it can become a broken encounter and hold the group in attack mode even after it is recharmed.  In addition when the encounter breaks due to charm bug, the mob never loses agrro toward caster.  I had a turtle in EL I was playing with last night that broke then fought on its own for awhile.  I went to other side of zone and then back for a quest.  Low and behold my old pet found me (about 30 min later) and still had a grudge.  I'd also like to add the duration is so short as to make the spell too cumbersome to use.  More time is spent on the pet maintenance (keeping it charmed) than it's worth for DPS.  I do better just casting my attack spells it seems than trying to use a pet and squeak a couple of nukes in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also the warping mob bug is still with us.  I think this comes as a result of stun/root combos.  I had a rooted mob warp on top of me and continue to do so even after I then mezzed it.  I eventually ran but the mezzed mob warped along with me for about 3 min (I kept remezzing to escape) until I finally zoned.  A truly ridiculous scenario, which on more than one occasion has resulted in my death.</DIV>

[Nibbl]

<DIV>Updated with comments from above</DIV>

[JohnJac]

<DIV>Will we ever be fixed? <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Cornbread_GA]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>The level 50 spell Psychic wail PRE-patch would land on Epic mobs.  My primary nuke at lvl 50 is Despotic Mind and Seizure... rougly average 450 and 200 respectively.   That rules out any true DPS during an epic fight.   The only real things we can do now is Ravaged Psyche and Despair.   So during epic fights we can debuff roughly 2k to all resists.....   and thats it.    Spamming devouring thoughts etc., but even that line has been nerfed.   </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Post-patch our ***LEVEL FIFTY*** stun no longer lands on epic mobs.  So we get to stand around gimply and watch everyone else be useful.   Sure, wizards can nuke for 3600 +/-  and we cant even stun a mob for 6 seconds every 45 seconds....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even without that our mana regen would make us useful.... but that has been nerfed as well.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Christ's sake give us a purpose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tinky Vonwinky</DIV> <DIV>LvL 50 Coercer</DIV> <DIV>Mistmoore</DIV>

[Cornbread_GA]

<DIV> <DIV>According to the Game Booklet included with EverQuest II:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Coercer</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>"<EM>Coercers dominate the minds of the weak and paralyze their foes through inflicted confusion and catatonia.  They are able to enhance the mental abilities and combat prowess of their allies.</EM>"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>************************************************** ********************</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> ..... yeah ........  right....</DIV></DIV>

[Nibbl]

<DIV>FYI - We are being heard it seems and issues are being looked at for the coercer class and enchanter class overall.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will be revising the Consolidated list and posting it on the skills/abilities board with changes on its format so it will be of more use to the Dev team...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's hoping!</DIV>

[Breez_Bay]

<DIV>Maybe it is just a pet peave of mine but is there any chance they will every change pets breaking mezz?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once the necro gets hit his pet is now bent on a suicidal mission and will do everything to get its master killed by breaking the mezz I tossed on said mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I duo with a RL friend who plays a necro.  His pet tanks for us and this has been a huge problem recently.  I long for the EQ1 days (once they finally enacted this) where pets wouldn't break mezz.</DIV>

[Zansh]

<DIV><FONT size=2>There is a spell issue that I believe is being overlooked in the main list Nibles.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Anguish is our level 31 DOT/power drain over time spell.  The spell is our upgrade to Cerebral Spasm (much like Bewilder is our upgrade to Stupefy).  Cerebral Spasm casting time 1, Anguish casting time FOUR.  This issue is identical to casting time issue with Bewilder (casting time FOUR) and Stupefy (casting time 1).  Four second casting cost is too high.  On regular or lower mobs i can't even finish casting it before it is dead.  On double up mobs and better I can cast it two or three times, but it kills my DPS because i'm not nuking while i can standing there watching that four second casting bar on Anguish pass by.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Insidious of Butherblock</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>31 Coercer/34 Alchemist</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>

[Nibbl]

<DIV>I agree that the cast time is long but as a tactic you shuold try casting that spell 1st. This spell has an Extremely long range for casting and you can start it way before the mob gets to the group. By the time the spell goes off, the mob is ontop of the group and you can jump into debuffs and DD nukes for your main DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also - I am closing out this thread of mine in favor of an update one on the new board which I have gotten a direct response back from Blackguard on so I am going to stick with the new one from here on out -</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=34176" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=34176</A></DIV>