Am I being a baby?

[Jol]

<DIV>I have been hunting in Fallen Gate lately (lvl 22).  A lot of those encounters are multi-mob (4-6 mobs).  I ask the MT to make an attack macro (something like "Now killing a %T") so I see what they are attacking more easily (especially when waking one of many mezzed mobs, I like to know which one s/he is going for).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some people act like I'm either asking for a king's ransom or like I'm the newbie-est enchanter ever.  Am I?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jolla on <span class=date_text>01-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:33 PM</span>

[Padi]

<DIV>You could just as easily make an assist key to the tank and hit it as they go to pull and know what they are attacking.  In grouped encounters, mez really isn't important anyways.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Orki who Pos]

<DIV>Back in fallen gate the tanks generally had lousy gear..  (they might not anymore, since there are crafters now and gear is cheap)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If your tank has lousy gear, mez is great, just look at what doesnt have a HP bar going down, and mez that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A second more or less doesnt matter, take the time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've seen groups kick an enchanter because he kept crying when they broke mezzes, heh.</DIV> <DIV>If they break it, i generally dont bother to remez that mob.</DIV>

[Jol]

<DIV>Let's say we are fighting some mobs and a new group spawns nearby.   I have some (normally about 3 mezzed).  I would like to see "Attacking a Construct" so when the mez breaks on the construct I know it's intentional without having to lose my target to target the tank and look for the arrow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But it sounds like asking the tank to push a button is too much.</DIV>

[Padi]

<DIV>It's just not a big deal, and it's more than just pushing a button, it's rearranging your hotbar to fit in another macro among a ton of skills being used.  It really isn't needed.  You can visually see what they hit anyways.  If you are mez'ing 3-4 mobs, then you are not likely mezing anything critical, grouped mobs without an arrow or down arrow are very simple to take a hit from.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All you have to do is watch the double ups closely.  As long as they are mez'ed everything is good.  The only time it's not easy to tell what's being hit is on group mob encounters, which doesn't usually require a mez anyways.  You are likely cycling from mob to mob and reapplying mez, it doesn't matter which you mez as long as it's not the one taking damage if you really need to mez those.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It really isn't worth getting worked up about.  You'll start to notice in time that you can relax more than you realize.  Everytime I go to RoV with my alt, I always think about just how foolish I was being so mez happy.  Remembering trying to mez rooms forcing everyone to fight 1 at a time and failing to suceed, then going right back and AEing it to death with ease.  You too will come back one day and realize it just wasn't worth the frustration you are putting into this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just get people to assist and don't worry what's being attacked too much.  Tell him ahead of time if you think a particular mob needs to die next for strategic purposes, but generally speaking on common fights, it just doesn't really matter.</DIV>

[Padi]

<DIV>And for the record, while I never asked for what you are, I have been a mez happy enchanter when I was working my way up to the mid 20's.  I also got fussy often.  I just didn't realize a few things about how this game was designed.  For one, a group of 4 mobs hurts about the same as a single double up mob to the tank and takes about the same time if killed 1 by 1 (faster when AE's are involved). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can sempathize with you, but you will one day realize it just wasn't worth it, as most enchanters realize sometime before their mid 30's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Padien on <span class=date_text>01-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:19 PM</span>

[Nerj]

<DIV>Some nice groups I had, the MT would announce taunting %T in 5 secs. Gave me enough time to target an add. Mez was also nice when group was attacking RED^^ with 2 red^, no mez breaking an some fast kills</DIV>

[RaumUlAm]

<DIV>Hmmm .. I am a 25th level Coercer. In DAOC I played a Midgard healer with high Crowd Control spec. My group and guild is somewhat tank/healer heavy with only a single wizard and no scouts to speak of at our levels. I am finding my role to be indispensible given our group dynamics for the most part. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I am hearing here is that most enchanters/coercers are giving up on the class-defining ability of our class? Sounds pretty serious don't you think? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is apparent that SOE has reduced the 'necessity' for crowd control and has increased the ability of a group to get through 'linked' mobs with AOE combat abilities and magical spells but I would question a wholesale retreat from this, our unique ability. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*edit*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh .. and btw .. I get around this by making a macro which targets the MT .. I also use the arrows that highlight quite nicely what I target and what my target is currently targetting. I use this macro initially when the MT is pulling to discover what he is targetting so that I can switch to a different target to mez and when the mob we are currently fighting has died and he is choosing another target so that I can re-apply mez to the remaining quickly to re-assume my dps support.</DIV><p>Message Edited by RaumUlAmon on <span class=date_text>01-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:21 PM</span>

[Padi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RaumUlAmon wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hmmm .. I am a 25th level Coercer. In DAOC I played a Midgard healer with high Crowd Control spec. My group and guild is somewhat tank/healer heavy with only a single wizard and no scouts to speak of at our levels. I am finding my role to be indispensible given our group dynamics for the most part. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I am hearing here is that most enchanters/coercers are giving up on the class-defining ability of our class? Sounds pretty serious don't you think? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is apparent that SOE has reduced the 'necessity' for crowd control and has increased the ability of a group to get through 'linked' mobs with AOE combat abilities and magical spells but I would question a wholesale retreat from this, our unique ability. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>It's not that we don't mez, but the game was designed to be fought differently than DAoC or EQ1.  Basically a single encounter is designed to be the same difficulty as the next, weither it be 1 or 5 mobs in it (named mobs are exceptions).  When you pull a single linked group of 4 mobs, as a whole it's the same difficulty as a single group mob with no friends (double up mobs have 4 times the HP and damage potention as a no up mob).  These are designed to be fought with AE spells and abilities.</P> <P>What us enchanters have done is to not fuss over mezing within an encounter except in named mob situations, and mez adds as our primary mez duty.  I usually put mez on single up pulls too (just 2 in group) because AE's just don't do a lot then and they still have a little bite to them (still consderably weaker than a single double up).</P> <P>Another duty that the CC experts have is power draining to make the mob being fought much weaker since he can no longer cast or use abilities.</P>

[RaumUlAm]

<DIV>Hmmm .. I fail to see how EQII is somehow uniquely 'different' from any other MMORPG in this regard Padien. The basic premise is that multiple targets wacking on your MT produces lots of hurtin' for said MT, if your healers can't keep up then MT dies. The fact that EQII has nifty titles and graphics to signify varying strengths of similarly conned mobs also adds no unique element to combatting multiple targets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it's great that they have gone to the length of adding in 'smart' AOE spell effects and I strive to take advantage of this by mezzing only when, and in the amount that is necessary given a particular groups capabailities. But to say that there is something completely unique about EQII's implementation of 'linked' encounters to the extent that Crowd Control need not retain at least some of it's traditional importance is .. peculiar at best.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Padi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RaumUlAmon wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hmmm .. I fail to see how EQII is somehow uniquely 'different' from any other MMORPG in this regard Padien. The basic premise is that multiple targets wacking on your MT produces lots of hurtin' for said MT, if your healers can't keep up then MT dies. The fact that EQII has nifty titles and graphics to signify varying strengths of similarly conned mobs also adds no unique element to combatting multiple targets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it's great that they have gone to the length of adding in 'smart' AOE spell effects and I strive to take advantage of this by mezzing only when, and in the amount that is necessary given a particular groups capabailities. But to say that there is something completely unique about EQII's implementation of 'linked' encounters to the extent that Crowd Control need not retain at least some of it's traditional importance is .. peculiar at best.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>It's unique because in EQ1 and DAoC a group of 4 mobs hit like 4 single mobs.  If you go out and pull a mob and it had 3 linked mobs, that fight would be 4 times more difficult than another of the same level that came alone.</P> <P>In EQ2, if you bring back a group of 4 linked mobs, they would each be 1/4 the strength of a single mob pull.  Meaning the tank has nothing to worry about.  That also means AE spells are easily used and quite safe.  Even if the AE'er draws agro, a caster can tank a while against one of these group mobs.</P> <P>You will laugh or shake your head about this conversation within 10 levels, I assure you.  You realize just how silly your thoughts are today.  I know I do.  Everytime I go into Stormhold, Blackburrow or Ruins of Varsoon with my alts, I always remember just how foolish I was.  Sometimes I laugh about it, other times I feel a little stupid about what I used to do to myself and groups.</P><p>Message Edited by Padien on <span class=date_text>01-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:09 PM</span>

[Sanben]

I think having a 'mob incoming' message is very helpful, not essential but helpful all the same.It lets you know when a tank is pulling and gives you time to see what target he has so you can switch to a different one in the same group and mez it before it reaches you. Not mezzing grouped mobs only really applies if you have a sorcerer type in the group. Its also helpful if you are killing two ^ mobs with different names so you know which one to mez, usefull if you have to stand back and cant see the mobs until they are engaged.Its also helpful to other group members so they know not to buff/heal otherwise they get aggro straight away.I don't make an issue of it but will prefer to group with tanks who take the time to make macros. It's simple to do and show a bit of thought IMO.

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Well so speak if you have multiple within single encounter (aka pack of mob linked to each other) - mez rather bad thing to do.It slow down killing a lot. Yes AoE dont brake mez but preventing monsters from taking damage as well. You have spell Sillyblant (sp) use it - that's the case then you really want this, use your AE spells dont bother with mez. The only case then you might want to mez if you group pulling "boss-pack" in that case you want to mez boss and let group handle rest. Btw feel free to solo some mobs from that pack they realtively easy. Add's is different story - those need to be mezed usually to reduce healing burn out for group</DIV>

[Bloodtoo]

True for most group pulls mez is not really needed. Only when: mobs hit especially hard, the healer is not up to snuff or there are particularly nasty ones that need killing first/last. You get a feel for what a particular group can handle and when they need mez. Best to set what the groups expectations are when you join.Though I like the tank to have an /Inc announcement it's mainly to know when he's pulling. TO determine the MT's target I assist him/her right when he/she pulls to have the target selected, then if mezzing is required I tab off to the next mob and start mezzing. Tab again then mez until i tab to a target that has damage then i know i'm back on the main target. If mez gets broken by a pet or a player who doesn't know how to assist I don't fret just tab to the next target it's now his problem. Everybody finds their own techniques so take from this what you will and ignore what you want.

[11B3VB4]

<DIV>Not on topic</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jolla- You ever play EQL on ECI?</DIV>

[Zmokyn]

<DIV>I prefer to work with a tank that uses an Inc %t message.</DIV> <DIV>It alerts the group that a mob is coming, and warns casters to avoid agro-drawing spells.</DIV> <DIV>Its particularly useful in dungeons where maybe you cant see the pull until its right on top of you.</DIV> <DIV>If two encounter groups get pulled (accidentally?) then it clues you in on which group might need Mez or Awe.</DIV> <DIV>Its not a gamebreaker, but its another 5% increment in group efficiency and skill.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[neble]

<DIV>My chanter alt is still a lowbie, but by god I'd be lieing if I didn't say I had the most fun I've ever had in EQ2 last night.  Here's the scene:  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Small group, myself (lvl 15), tank (lvl 14), and a healer (lvl 14).  The 3 of us went all the way to the bottom of the Wailing Caves last night and camped the crap out of the place for 3-4 hours straight.  I don't even have breeze yet, but my mes must of saved us at least 4 or 5 times last night and seriously reduced downtime on the 2 single ^ encounters.   The other 2 did die once because we got 3 ^^ mob (4 in total including the one we were already fighting!) adds once which were just too many adds for me to handle with mes (on top of being the primary DPS).   There were 2 times though we got 2 ^^ adds to our already existing ^^ mob and I kept those suckers mesd as we picked them off each one at a time.  I was the party saver and I was the primary DPS all night doing twice the damage of the tank and 4 times the damage of the Priest when he had the chance to do damage.  There were full groups of lvl 12-14 people down there dieing cause of adds that my lowly group of 3 was whooping butt on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall the night was absolutly action packed and we gained a full level in xp plus some vendor loot.   So you can preach all you want about how worthless you think mes is in EQ2, but when a group of 3 w/ a chanter is doing what a group of 6 can not I can't help but laugh in your face.</DIV><p>Message Edited by neblehK on <span class=date_text>01-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:33 PM</span>

[Jonto]

<DIV>Two comments:</DIV> <DIV>1.  Several peeps have said in their replies that mezzing on grouped pulls is not needed.  My answer to them is:  STOP SMOKING CRACK!</DIV> <DIV>Yes it is technically possible to tank the group in some cases as a low to mid 20's lowbie.  It also makes the tank feel very hairy chested and manly when he can survive it at the expense of a ton of healing and wards forcing un-necessary risk as well as too many power regen breaks.  That is also a horrible habit to get in to when in the higher end game you will get totally owned because you have no clue how to do it the right way.  The only time you should not mess with mezzing adds is when you cannot find a good chanter and have no other choice.  Even then, find a bruiser and let him handle the adds with mezz / fear / FD.</DIV> <DIV>2. Any tank that has a clue will make the inc message and use it consistently.  This is for the benefit of the whole group but mostly for the shammies and their wards and other healers to a lesser extent.  Getting behind on heals and wards is the death of the group at worst and slows the grind at best.  If the tank does not and refuses, then kick them and get a tank with a clue.  It is better to spend some time looking for a tank with a brain then it is to recover shards and pay back exp debt.  The chanter benefit from the inc message because he can run out fron and catch one of the adds on the way in but that is not required, just a convenience.  Who the tank is targeted on is way easy to see without the %t message, that is just gravy.  I speak from experience both as a tank, a healer, chanter and DPS classes and 5 years of EQ experience and an entire family that plays EQ.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jonto]

<DIV> <P>__________________________________________________ _</P> <P>Padien Wrote:</P> <P>It's unique because in EQ1 and DAoC a group of 4 mobs hit like 4 single mobs.  If you go out and pull a mob and it had 3 linked mobs, that fight would be 4 times more difficult than another of the same level that came alone.</P> <P>In EQ2, if you bring back a group of 4 linked mobs, they would each be 1/4 the strength of a single mob pull.  Meaning the tank has nothing to worry about.  That also means AE spells are easily used and quite safe.  Even if the AE'er draws agro, a caster can tank a while against one of these group mobs.</P> <P>__________________________________________________ _</P> <P>That is so not true...  You will in fact see that they try to even out each encounter in a relatively small geographic area by making (for example) a single move ^^, then making a two mob linked group ^, and a three mob linked group on level, and a 4 mob linked group overconned, but that does not imply that the tank is safe with 3 mob.  Tanks that insist on letting everyone beat on them just wanna look kewl when in fact they are costing overall exp because of all the power regen breaks, exp debt and shard recoveries they cause because they want to be macho.</P> <P>AE spells from caster classes are safe because they do not break mezzed mobs.  That is new for EQ2.  Mele AE abilities are a problem however because they are mostly circular attacks and many of them in fact do break mez.  The amount of damage they do is small by comparison so normally you are faster and more efficient to just have everyone stay on a single mob and mez the rest.</P></DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Jontomm - mind if I ask your lvl?</DIV> <DIV>Myself I am lvl 45 coercer (rank 3 on server), Padien is lvl 50 illusionist so we both speaking from first hand expirience of end-game.....</DIV> <DIV>FYI total DPS of group 4 normal conned mob about to be equal of DPS single ++ coned mob or 2 + conned mob of equal lvl... More over total DPS of group 6 - conned group slightly less then DPS single ++ and DPS of group of 8 - - conned mobs .... laughtable mage can tank em.</DIV> <DIV>So speak "encounter" no matter how many mob it have not requied mezing unless it boss pack (boss need to be mezed). "Normal" tank in his 40 capable easy tank 4 white ++ conned mob at time w/o taking much damage</DIV> <DIV>I have strong feeling my friend that you barely made to lvl 20 and just got title coercer - so you have long road to learn game mechanic in EQ2 which is quete different from what you got use to have in EQ1</DIV> <DIV>Mondor lvl 45 coercer of EM from Nektulos</DIV>

[Padi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> neblehK wrote:<BR> <DIV>My chanter alt is still a lowbie, but by god I'd be lieing if I didn't say I had the most fun I've ever had in EQ2 last night.  Here's the scene:  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Small group, myself (lvl 15), tank (lvl 14), and a healer (lvl 14).  The 3 of us went all the way to the bottom of the Wailing Caves last night and camped the crap out of the place for 3-4 hours straight.  I don't even have breeze yet, but my mes must of saved us at least 4 or 5 times last night and seriously reduced downtime on the 2 single ^ encounters.   The other 2 did die once because we got 3 ^^ mob (4 in total including the one we were already fighting!) adds once which were just too many adds for me to handle with mes (on top of being the primary DPS).   There were 2 times though we got 2 ^^ adds to our already existing ^^ mob and I kept those suckers mesd as we picked them off each one at a time.  I was the party saver and I was the primary DPS all night doing twice the damage of the tank and 4 times the damage of the Priest when he had the chance to do damage.  There were full groups of lvl 12-14 people down there dieing cause of adds that my lowly group of 3 was whooping butt on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall the night was absolutly action packed and we gained a full level in xp plus some vendor loot.   So you can preach all you want about how worthless you think mes is in EQ2, but when a group of 3 w/ a chanter is doing what a group of 6 can not I can't help but laugh in your face.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by neblehK on <SPAN class=date_text>01-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:33 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I think you are not reading very well.  I don't think anyone here has said not to mez adds.  I believe we've all been saying that's WHEN you need mez.  It's within the muli mob pulls we are saying you don't need mez.  The ones that are linked in a single pack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jonto]

<DIV>Tanatus,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My current chanter is lvl 29 along with a predator, rogue, crusader and brawler all in their teens.  My wife drives a 29 shammy.  I also had a 70 chanter, 58 wizzy, 70 pally, 70 cleric, 68 shammy, and 69 rogue in EQ 1 all of which I leveled from scratch.  The wife drove a 70 drood, 70 warrior and a variety of other chars in EQ 1.  I may not be god's gift to EQ but I do have a clue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now a question for you since apparently you are god's gift.  How did you not commit suicide and delete your character if you lvl'ed all the way to 50 and all you did was buff the group and put out sad dps?  A chanter's defining characteristic is crowd control since SoE decided that we no longer would be alowed to use charm.  Without crowd control, you become a tick on a dogs back and just parasite your way thru the levels.  All the way, your groups were hurt because you did not do your job.  That is sad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Jontomm on <SPAN class=date_text>01-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:16 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Jontomm on <span class=date_text>01-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:17 PM</span>

[Padi]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=49919" target=_blank><SPAN>Jontomm</SPAN></A>, we all have gone through the stage of believing our mez's are super uber and powerful.  I doubt anyone on these boards did not once believe that their mez was god's gift to success in this game.  The thing is, most eventually learn otherwise.  Yes, mez is very helpful at times.  Yes, it will save lives to a point.  Most enchanters start off believing if a group of 4 no arrow mobs comes, you have to mez or the group wipes.  That's just not the case in this game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are times you get added double ups.  That's what mez is for.  The thing is, that doesn't happen often with a good group, but that's when our mez is needed.  Sadly many enchanters do quit after realizing how meanless mez can be in this game.  I personally don't play mine unless I'm going somewhere dangerous, because I'm a buff bot with sub par damage...though our buffs do acount for plenty of damage, it's just not a fun way to play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Go to some other forumns and see what other classes think of enchanters.  I bet you see a lot of, "I hate enchanters, all they do is [FaarNerfed!] about mez and slow down xp down.  Give me any DPS or another healer and we'll pull faster".  Granted a lot of this is false to a point, but it's due to enchanters who are overly excited about mez in a game where mez is very limited in use.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No one wanted our job to be so limited in mezing when we started playing...it just happened to be the way it is.</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Jontomm I came from EQ1 from moderatly high raiding guild I was 1 kill away from PoTime (RC was missing) I have retied my necro soon after GoD been released so I havent had a chance hit mark 70 but I been lvl 65 necro with  297AA on the moment of retiement (necro that was born in november 99). I had alt enchanter with no where near as much AA as my necro have... none the less here is a reason why I made coercer and why I still play it</DIV> <DIV>I firmly believe that SOE created coercer class to be champion of DPS in game (via charmed pet or why else we would give charm?) for a price of high risk doing so. I was looking carefully trough all spells that different classes had and come to conclusion that Coercer will most close resemble in stile my necro from EQ1 - aka mad DPS via dots and charmed pet plus plenty utilities spells that make my soloing my smoother. Honestly I been partial between necro and coercer ... but then happend 2 things</DIV> <DIV>a) I recalled who made EQ2 and who did 17 nerfs in first 19 patches to necro ... </DIV> <DIV>b) I looked on amount summoners around ....</DIV> <DIV>So I said screw this and made coercer - never regreted it. I do more DPS then any wizard or warlock (well at least till time they got fixed lol) till lvl 35 I was able outdamage every single class in game but after lvl 37 I suffered same problem that every mage did (still I DID have a good time). I have several utilities that make me more then wellcome in groups. First and foremost I grant magic immunity no more no less... Only poison attack usually capable brake trough my ward and mintigation buff.  My crack work like PHoT (power heal over time). I can seriously weaken mob via stifle, stun, slow, powerdrain and on top of I can mez which is rarely needed so speak. EQ2 not EQ1 crowed control here much differ from what you seen in EQ1. </DIV> <DIV>Me and Padien talking here about crowed control as general - if you play carefull you dont need it at all - at best you can say "it good to have mezer". Reality my fried is fact that enchanter in EQ2 more like shaman in EQ1 if you change regrow of EQ1 shammy for Breeze line of EQ2 chanters you will get twins brothers <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Jonto]

<DIV>You are the only chanter I have ever seen who claims to out-dps any dps class with a straight face.  Congratulations,, you sound very convincing...   Oh well..  You have been there I have not..  So what I am hearing from you is that chanters can just be bots in the upper levels and are too boring to live (aside from the wild and quite unique claims of uber dps).  I know that all groups want a chanter for crack and haste but any bot can do that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have no interest in playing a mindless idiot's bot class...  Sux to have gone this far and just have to quit playing a class that used to be fun...  Gratz.. u have convinced me that being a chanter sux.</DIV>

[Orki who Pos]

<DIV>>I have no interest in playing a mindless idiot's bot class</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, when you DO get that one or two ^^ adds every two hours, your mez is a good thing, it saves the group 5 minutes of running back after an evac.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But otherwise.. it's your buffs that gets you invited, that's what counts.. sigh</DIV>

[neble]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Padien wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> neblehK wrote:<BR> <DIV>My chanter alt is still a lowbie, but by god I'd be lieing if I didn't say I had the most fun I've ever had in EQ2 last night.  Here's the scene:  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Small group, myself (lvl 15), tank (lvl 14), and a healer (lvl 14).  The 3 of us went all the way to the bottom of the Wailing Caves last night and camped the crap out of the place for 3-4 hours straight.  I don't even have breeze yet, but my mes must of saved us at least 4 or 5 times last night <STRONG>and seriously reduced downtime on the 2 single ^ encounters</STRONG>.   The other 2 did die once because we got 3 ^^ mob (4 in total including the one we were already fighting!) adds once which were just too many adds for me to handle with mes (on top of being the primary DPS).   There were 2 times though we got 2 ^^ adds to our already existing ^^ mob and I kept those suckers mesd as we picked them off each one at a time.  I was the party saver and I was the primary DPS all night doing twice the damage of the tank and 4 times the damage of the Priest when he had the chance to do damage.  There were full groups of lvl 12-14 people down there dieing cause of adds that my lowly group of 3 was whooping butt on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall the night was absolutly action packed and we gained a full level in xp plus some vendor loot.   So you can preach all you want about how worthless you think mes is in EQ2, but when a group of 3 w/ a chanter is doing what a group of 6 can not I can't help but laugh in your face.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by neblehK on <SPAN class=date_text>01-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:33 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I think you are not reading very well.  I don't think anyone here has said not to mez adds.  I believe we've all been saying that's WHEN you need mez.  It's within the muli mob pulls we are saying you don't need mez.  The ones that are linked in a single pack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You aren't either, I bolded the part of my post above that you're so focused on discussing.  Maybe it changes at level 50, but if I can make the healers job easier by mesing mobs that are part of a multi mob encounter, than I will.  I personally think you guys are full of [FaarNerfed!] about mes being useless even when you're not getting adds, but I guess I'll have to wait and see.  Right here and now, mesing the second mob in a 2 mob/single arrow encounter drastically improves the amount of downtime when hunting in a 3-4 person group.  Maybe it's not a big deal in a 6 person group, but I don't usually make full groups because I group with friends.<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by neblehK on <span class=date_text>01-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:05 AM</span>

[Llars]

<DIV>To break away from the bickering for a moment, I have a question th the high level EQ2 Enchanters.  I understand where you're coming from on the importance of mezzes.  I have a 21 Illusionist and a high level clued me in some time last week.  I was in complete denial for about a day ("  pfft... he doesn't know what he's talking about.  How'd he ever get to his 40's...) but the more I thought about it it started to make sence.  I'm actually cool with that because what I've always like about casters like enchanters was the diversity of their spells.  However, spell diversity doesn't really amount to much when you're forced to constantly mez the entire fight, though I found that enjoyable in the past also.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, my actuall question is; do you feel less usefull to groups than other members now, or is that just how some percieve you?  It still seems to me that an enchanter has a lot to offer other than buffs with the power drains, stifles and stuns.  As a matter of fact, a lot of the spells seem even more usefull to me now that I realize that everything doen't always need to be mezzed and untouched.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>[edited before my 6th grade english teacher saw]</DIV><p>Message Edited by Llars on <span class=date_text>01-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:32 AM</span>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Folks ... first thing you should face EQ2 is not EQ1 .... and as a such Enchanters are NOT crowed control bots or mana pumping [Removed for Content] (this role belong to wizards and warlocks lol j/k)</DIV> <DIV>Look carefully trough spell list for every mage type class look on spells lines, resistance type and so forth...</DIV> <DIV>I give you some information to think about....</DIV> <DIV>Wizard - around 12 nukes 3 major nuking line 1 major DoT line </DIV> <DIV>1 Powerfull long recast primary nuke, 1 fast recast low damage nuke, 1 powerfull AE ... very powerfull at lvl 50, 1 Elemental resistance decreasing DOT</DIV> <DIV>Untility include root, single target mez that not really practical since it root wizards, evac, short term stun, mana transfer spell</DIV> <DIV>Spells are elemental resistance based....</DIV> <DIV>Warlock in a sence its same wizards with more emphasis on single target DD and less powerfull AE with spell based on Noxious resistance</DIV> <DIV>Coercer .... 4! major nuking lines 1 heavy (well relatively heavy lol anyway) slow recast, 1 fast cast low damage, 1 with root built-in and 1 AE DD ... weak, all DD overall about 30-50% weaker then equal version of wizard or warlock but to ofset this we been given 2! Dot lines Cerberal Spasm-Anguish-Torment and Static Pulse-Gloom-Melancholy-Despair. All out [FaarNerfed!] arcane resistance based spells. As utility we been given SAME - mez (just better), no evac, but instead will have long lasting Stun, Stifle, PowerDrain, somethat [FaarNerfed!]tier root, Pretty much useless AE mez (about as much usefull as single target of wizard/warlock one)</DIV> <DIV>Oki enouth talk so what the point?</DIV> <DIV>Point is simple - ALL mage archtype was meant to be DPS in their own way that's for one</DIV> <DIV>Wizards - Massive AE DD, Heavy single target DD, weak dots - elemental attack</DIV> <DIV>Warlock - Massive AE DoTs, Massive single Target DD  - noxious attack</DIV> <DIV>Coercer - Massive single target DoT, moderate damage DDs, weak AE DD - arcane attack</DIV> <DIV>Illusionist - Massive AE DD, moderate damage DoT, weak single target DD - arcane attack</DIV> <DIV>Necromancer - Massive damage via Pet, moderate DoT damage, weak DD - noxious attack</DIV> <DIV>Conjurer - Massive damage via Pet, moderate DoT damage, weak DD - elemental attack</DIV> <DIV>In a long run all classes from same archtype meant to come more or less equal DPS wise just different forms of doing damage (clever solution that worked well in EQ1 btw)</DIV> <DIV>What the difference aside of type and form of damage? - well utility... Some might say crack line of coercer/illi superior over any other form ... not true so to speak. Smart warlock/wizard - can if needed serve as mana pump as efficient as enchanter and mode rodes from summoners are neat. See role of regulators of mana flow can be done by any mages .... in a different way...</DIV> <DIV>Crowed control - well enchanter got mez, wizards got evac, warlock got mez - anyhow again each class have a way to deal with adds (pets can perfectly off-tank if needed)</DIV> <DIV>So I tell you thing that Developers were trying to tell us from very begining - no matter what class you choose withing archtype they ALL can perform same action in different way of course</DIV>

[Padi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> neblehK wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Padien wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> neblehK wrote:<BR> <DIV>My chanter alt is still a lowbie, but by god I'd be lieing if I didn't say I had the most fun I've ever had in EQ2 last night.  Here's the scene:  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Small group, myself (lvl 15), tank (lvl 14), and a healer (lvl 14).  The 3 of us went all the way to the bottom of the Wailing Caves last night and camped the crap out of the place for 3-4 hours straight.  I don't even have breeze yet, but my mes must of saved us at least 4 or 5 times last night <STRONG>and seriously reduced downtime on the 2 single ^ encounters</STRONG>.   The other 2 did die once because we got 3 ^^ mob (4 in total including the one we were already fighting!) adds once which were just too many adds for me to handle with mes (on top of being the primary DPS).   There were 2 times though we got 2 ^^ adds to our already existing ^^ mob and I kept those suckers mesd as we picked them off each one at a time.  I was the party saver and I was the primary DPS all night doing twice the damage of the tank and 4 times the damage of the Priest when he had the chance to do damage.  There were full groups of lvl 12-14 people down there dieing cause of adds that my lowly group of 3 was whooping butt on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall the night was absolutly action packed and we gained a full level in xp plus some vendor loot.   So you can preach all you want about how worthless you think mes is in EQ2, but when a group of 3 w/ a chanter is doing what a group of 6 can not I can't help but laugh in your face.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by neblehK on <SPAN class=date_text>01-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:33 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I think you are not reading very well.  I don't think anyone here has said not to mez adds.  I believe we've all been saying that's WHEN you need mez.  It's within the muli mob pulls we are saying you don't need mez.  The ones that are linked in a single pack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You aren't either, I bolded the part of my post above that you're so focused on discussing.  Maybe it changes at level 50, but if I can make the healers job easier by mesing mobs that are part of a multi mob encounter, than I will.  I personally think you guys are full of [FaarNerfed!] about mes being useless even when you're not getting adds, but I guess I'll have to wait and see.  Right here and now, mesing the second mob in a 2 mob/single arrow encounter drastically improves the amount of downtime when hunting in a 3-4 person group.  Maybe it's not a big deal in a 6 person group, but I don't usually make full groups because I group with friends.<BR></P> <P>Message Edited by neblehK on <SPAN class=date_text>01-26-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:05 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Every example except that one highlighted example is about adds.  I was saying that is WHEN you need to mez, is when you get the ^^ adds.  And if you've read my posts, you'll have seen that I've also said that mezing 1 of a 2 group pull isn't a bad idea, since AE's are kind of pointless on 3 mob pulls and ^'s still have a little bite.  Granted in the high level game, even they are a joke to most tanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was agreeing with your choices on when to mez, so please back down and focus on the conversation about the 3+ mob pulls the rest of us were talking about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The sad thing is, as you level up and tanks get better at their job, you will find yourself without adds most the time.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Padien on <span class=date_text>01-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:59 AM</span>

[Aomirc]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jolla wrote:<BR> <DIV>Let's say we are fighting some mobs and a new group spawns nearby.   I have some (normally about 3 mezzed).  I would like to see "Attacking a Construct" so when the mez breaks on the construct I know it's intentional without having to lose my target to target the tank and look for the arrow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But it sounds like asking the tank to push a button is too much.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Have a play with your display options (bear with me)</P> <P> </P> <P>You can change them so that whatever you are targetting has an arrows above it's head, but also an semi-transparent arrow above the head of it's target</P> <P>(You target tank using F1-6, and you can see that he's targetting mob 3 for example)</P> <P> </P> <P>I use this method at the moment and have found it's much easier to keep the mobs mezzed as well as throw in a Gloom or something on the tank</P> <P> </P> <P>It also works the other way, like if something that is mezzed has decided that it's gonna take out a healer, then you will be able to tell because the healer will have the semi-transparent arrow not the tank...</P> <P> </P> <P>This worked well last night in the Valley of Zarvonn with groups of up to 6 Red con mobs for me at 17, but has worked well ever since I changed them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

[Jol]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 11B3VB4 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Not on topic</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jolla- You ever play EQL on ECI?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Sure did.  I'm Jollaa on Unrest now.  (Can you believe Jolla is reserved? Bah!)  Who are/were you?