How Effective is Beguile?

[mark2424]

<DIV>Hi all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can anything be beguiled, what are the limits?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Elysius</DIV>

[Clarat]

<DIV>Beguile is broken, it does not work.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We go until level 37 without the benefit of a pet, and when we get to 37, the spell is useless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As of now, it is bugged, in that after charm breaks about 60% of the time all involved npc's become no loot / no xp.  I believe what happens is that charm breaks, then the charmed npc or other npc hit each other, the game thinks something is bugged because npc's are randomly doing damage to each other, and turns everything into no xp to prevent exploits.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even if the spell weren't bugged, I'm pretty disappointed with beguile.  We already undergo the hardship of being a pet class, in a manner, but without the pet for 74% of our levels.  When we finally get beguile the result</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*should be at least as powerful as a similar level pet class's pet*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no reason to expect any less.  Charm is our defining spell, we go 3/4 of our career as a Coercer without a pet, it should be at least as powerful.  Following the logic of other spells, App1 beguile should last 30 seconds, Master 1 would be 75 seconds (250%).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This alone is crazy if it is in fact true.  Other pet classes get a very nice controllable pet that lasts until it dies - if we get a pet that maxes at 75 seconds it will be a farce.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE, if you aren't going to fix beguile anytime soon, at least in the true bug sense, then let us 'charm from the ether' a summoner/necro type pet until you fix it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is crazy that the spell that drew many of us to this class isn't operational.  It is equivalent to assassins not getting backstab until level 37, then they find out backstab is bugged and you can't click the button, yet nothing is done about it.</DIV>

[Valdaya]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Claratar wrote:<BR> <DIV>We already undergo the hardship of being a pet class, in a manner, but without the pet for 74% of our levels.  When we finally get beguile the result</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*should be at least as powerful as a similar level pet class's pet*<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Who said we were a pet class?  If we were, we'd always have a pet.  Conjurers/Necromancers are pet classes, we aren't.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want charm, go play a Troubadour.  They get charm at a much lower level than we do, and it works better.  And they aren't a pet class either, for the record.</DIV>

[Azmode]

<DIV>First off... <FONT color=#cc33cc>Valdayana, who the hell are you to tell us to play a bard if we want charm?    I did my homework when I chose my class and I knew Coercers received a charm spell.  Many of us chose the class because of the spell.  Now, at level 20 Troubs get a gimpy charm which if you read their forums is also broken.   We receive our charm at level 37 and this spell is also broken.   Do you know what the word COERCE means?  Let me help you a little.</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#cc33cc> <OL> <LI>To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel.</LI> <LI>To dominate, restrain, or control forcibly: coerced the strikers into compliance. See Synonyms at <A href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=force" target=_blank><FONT color=#0033ff>force</FONT></A>.</LI> <LI>To bring about by force or threat: efforts to coerce agreement</LI></OL> <P>Who do you think should be the master of mind control?  We have to wait 17 more levels to get our charm spell, but its OK for you that this spell is broken beyond believe and tell us to play a dam bard if we want to charm mobs?  Please do not insult my intelligence.</P></FONT> <DIV><FONT color=#cc33cc></FONT> </DIV>

[Mall]

<DIV>I'm a 30 Coercer, and I'm afraid I must agree with Val here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not think that SOE intended us to be a "pet" class as we were in Eq1.  Even when I read the spell description before I started the chanter, I didn't think it was going to be useful.  Maybe a little more useful than it actually is (from the accounts I'm reading), but not like in EQ1 when the charm became a full fledged pet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually, I think it would be way overpowered to have the beguile as a full fledged pet.  Mind you, I didn't think that until I got my level 27 and 28 nuke spells, but man, I put out some serious dps now when I'm duoing with my Wiz partner of the same level.  I don't do quite as much dps as him, by design, but with the regen and 15s nukes, we can duo all day almost on even con mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not know what SOE was thinking even putting in the "stun", which is what it really is, but I don't think we can have a pet at that level and be balanced. Maybe I'll change that thought when I get to 38, no idea at this time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Videk 30 Coercer, Mistmore</DIV>

[Valdaya]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azmodeus wrote:<BR> <DIV>First off... <FONT color=#cc33cc>Valdayana, who the hell are you to tell us to play a bard if we want charm?    I did my homework when I chose my class and I knew Coercers received a charm spell.  Many of us chose the class because of the spell.  Now, at level 20 Troubs get a gimpy charm which if you read their forums is also broken.   We receive our charm at level 37 and this spell is also broken.   Do you know what the word COERCE means?  Let me help you a little.</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#cc33cc> <OL> <LI>To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel.</LI> <LI>To dominate, restrain, or control forcibly: coerced the strikers into compliance. See Synonyms at <A href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=force" target=_blank><FONT color=#0033ff>force</FONT></A>.</LI> <LI>To bring about by force or threat: efforts to coerce agreement</LI></OL> <P>Who do you think should be the master of mind control?  We have to wait 17 more levels to get our charm spell, but its OK for you that this spell is broken beyond believe and tell us to play a dam bard if we want to charm mobs?  Please do not insult my intelligence.</P></FONT> <DIV><FONT color=#cc33cc></FONT> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Like Mallez says, it's a tricky balance issue.  We're already very powerful in terms of dealing damage in our 30s, along with more utility than any other caster class.  Giving us an effective charm on top of all that could push us into brokenness and nerfs.  Most people who complain about charm here seem to want an EQ1 style charm.  I was an enchanter in EQ1, I know what that was like, and it would severely unbalance us here.  I did the whole 'solo the level 65 giants in the Bastion of Thunder' thing back then, so I know what a 'broken' charm spell is capable of.  I'd just as rather not end up with a similar case here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Azmodeus, you say you did your homework.  If you did, you'd know that Troubadours received more charm spells, and at an earlier level, than Coercers do.  And yes, you can quote the dictionary definition of Coerce, but then you're in the same boat as the whiners at the Illusionist board who complain about their illusions and how 'useless' they are.  But they're Illusionists, right?  Why do Conjurers get a cool "Illusion: Fire Elemental" spell instead of Illusionists, who actually have Illusion in their name?  What about Inquisitors, shouldn't they be able to interrogate enemies to learn information?  I mean, you know the definition of Inquisitor, right?  You can quibble about names all day long, but the fact remains that Coercers would be unbalanced if we had a charm spell even remotely like EQ1's.  While it'd be nice if they could fix the 'no experience' bug that currently exists, increasing the spell's duration or making any such changes to the spell would be very detrimental to the game as a whole.  And that's just the way it is.</DIV>

[Azmode]

<DIV>Nope, sorry If I wanted to play a bard, I would of played a bard.  I have always played pure casters, and I will continue that route.  I am HUGELY dissapointed with the Coercer, and the gimpy or broken spells at the current state right now.  At least I am putting my money where my mouth is and stopping my subscription.  Who knows, maybe SoE will put the Fun back in the spells some day.  </DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Folks I dont want to be rude but mildly say you are not qualified talk about beguile unless you have it....</DIV> <DIV>a) I made this choice solely because of Beguile haveing in mind to be the best DPS class in game</DIV> <DIV>b) As it now beguile not work even on grey conned mobs - its either brake instantly (90% of time) or last long enouth for charmed pet to make 1 move and thus bug encounter into no-loot mode (10%)</DIV> <DIV>c) if I wanted to play CC  or buff [Removed for Content] I'd make illusionist but I made coercer to be top DPS class in game because then I looked on spell line I see - 3! nuke spell line, 2 dot spell line and on top of it ! Charmed Pet </DIV> <DIV>Each class have 2 class spesific ability that UNIQUE those ability define class face if you will and in case you havent notice Coercers have a such unique abilities 2 spells one of em Beguile and other is Reak of Terror</DIV>

[Galaa-]

<DIV>Maybe ppl still don realise that, of the 3 different mage types, Sorcerer are the DPS, Summoners are the pet class and Enchanters are the Crowd controllers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you wanna play a pet class, play summoner.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For DPs, try sorcerers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IF u really love charming that much, the bards are better in it than chanters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don get me wrong, I LOVE to be able to charm mobs as pet too. I was a tamer in UO, chanter in EQ1, and creature handler in SWG. I always love playing around with mobs. I would prefer beguile to be as powerful as charm is in EQ1, but I know my role as a chanter is CC 1st, fun with mobs secondary.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Galaa-SG on <span class=date_text>01-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:09 AM</span>

[Orki who Pos]

<DIV>Galaa, if you think sorcerers are the top dps class, you need to get a parser, and group with both a sorcerer and a summoner post 25.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>you'll be suprised.. very suprised.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In very short fights (blues and below), or against huge amounts of mobs, the sorcerer can keep up..  during normal gameplay.. *shug*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9966>Oh, and btw.. as a chanter, your main role in this game is downtime reduction, not mezzing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Sure, mezzing helps, but very often there will be multiple adds in a big group, and you cant do squat besides yelling evac anyway.</DIV> <DIV>In 95% of the situations where you mez, a secondary healer or tank could have done atleast as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once you get refresh at 33, life changes with two breezes and consuming thoughts.. basically you will be so busy casting breezes/hastes/silence, and they have so high an impact by eliminating downtime, that everything else becomes secondary in an average-or-better group.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9966>(Mana regen will be in the same area it is out of combat with average food, 50ish/tick)</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Orki who Posts on <span class=date_text>01-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:37 PM</span>

[Clarat]

<DIV>I hate to pull the level card, but some of you that are lower level are not seeing how the Coercer is panning out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am currently level 41, fighting things level 41-47, in Feerot and Everfrost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coercers have really three spells that set them apart - the mez line, breeze line, and beguile.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Beguile is broken, buggy, useless.  If we don't even argue how poweful it is right now, it is outright broken and not usable unless you want to bug an encounter for some reason.  Lets say that it wasn't broken, and as some people suggest, it shouldn't really have any real use or value, but is a 30 second fun spell that you'd never dare use.  (When I do play with it and use it, the hate is so bad when charm breaks you wouldn't want to actually use it - again, when, if ever would there be a use for this spell?  There isn't).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So that leaves mez and breeze.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can easily go 5 hours of playing without mezzing.  Mez is basically useless.  If it is a linked group encounter, you wouldn't mez cause people AE'ing is way more effective, if it is a single encounter and you get an add, the tank just taunts it and you carry on.  If i don't need to mez lvl 45 adds, I don't see a future in needing it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know people will try and argue this - I too was an eager Coercer in my 20's thinking I would mez adds and this and that, I eventually realized it just isn't required and doesn't make a difference.  I speak from a lot of hours, obviously.  Be ideal all you want, you'll see when you are higher level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So charm doesn't work, and people think that it should basically be a fun spell.  Mez just isn't required (sure there will be an odd time when it is handy, I cast it sometimes when a npc thumping a mage, then the tank breaks the mez, taunts it, and we carry on, all within a few seconds).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So congrats, your career is, yes, breeze / refresh until you are high enough to cast group clarity.  Thats it.  We are not masters of CC, we are power givers to reduce downtime.  I didn't mention group mez, cause it doesn't work, and again, I don't run into encounters where it required.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are happy being a second rate nuker and casting breeze / refresh non stop until level 47, then congrats, this class is for you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was expecting charm to have *some* use, and give us something different than other classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have no problem grouping, because refresh/breeze does reduce downtime.  I don't mez, I don't charm - I would if there were *any* use, but there isn't. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Blub]

<b>I can easily go 5 hours of playing without mezzing. Mez is basically useless. If it is a linked group encounter, you wouldn't mez cause people AE'ing is way more effective, if it is a single encounter and you get an add, the tank just taunts it and you carry on. If i don't need to mez lvl 45 adds, I don't see a future in needing it.</B>And after the Tank taunted it, you wouldn't mezz it for what reason? I want to see the healer who is able to keep a tank pounded by two orange or red ^^ mobs alive. Yes if the group has two healers that would work but thats the point with a chanter it also works with one healer.Mezz is not required anymore in any groups, but its far from useless (well except group mezz, which is indeed useless because of its recasttimer).I agree on beqguile however, they need to fix this giving us such a crappy spell is just ridiculis. It doesnt needs to add much DPS or anything but it needs to be not useless.<p>Message Edited by Blubby on <span class=date_text>01-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:03 AM</span>

[Ramir]

<DIV><FONT size=2> <P><EM>Beguile is broken, buggy, useless.</EM></P> <P>Since most of the level 50 game is camping way-grey mobs, this isn't strictly true.</P> <P>Against way-grey mobs, Tyrannical Mind is unuseable (mob too low). Our reactive damage shields don't function because we never get hit. Our level 50 AE is bugged (it's the same spell as our level 50 stun, so doesn't do any damage). Haruspex, even if it worked (which it doesn't), wouldn't work against way-grey mobs. So we're reduced to two DoTs, Seizure, and a grey AE nuke that wasn't very good even when we first got it. With Adept III Beguile, you can usually hold a + or less mob 25 levels below you for 30 seconds, and use it for additional dps.</P> <P><EM>And after the Tank taunted it, you wouldn't mezz it for what reason? I want to see the healer who is able to keep a tank pounded by two orange or red ^^ mobs alive.</EM></P> <P>Clerics get reactive complete heals at level 41 which render tanks effectively unkillable. Since taunt is significantly more effective than mesmerize at controlling crowds and the tank can't be killed while the Cleric is alive, there is no reason to mesmerize (or even bring a second healer).</P></FONT></DIV>

[Blub]

<b>Clerics get reactive complete heals at level 41 which render tanks effectively unkillable. Since taunt is significantly more effective than mesmerize at controlling crowds and the tank can't be killed while the Cleric is alive, there is no reason to mesmerize (or even bring a second healer).</b>So a cleric and a tank could kill lets say vision of vox if they bring enough time? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Well I must admit, i'm not at this level range yet (but in the thirties), however I doubt that a tank can hold ^^ adds over a long time without any problems. If it really is that way then i'm sure SOE will nerve it pretty fast, because it would make the "endgame" way easier than the mid-range game.

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Claratar I am lvl 40 coercer now I am partially agree with you (say in most parts...)</DIV> <DIV>Beguile is broken and useless</DIV> <DIV>Mez? well .... it have some use then you killing +++ X2 group kind of ecounters with many adds - you mez boss and let group do some cleaning... Adds? Well our clerics arent 41 yet so group still somethat relay on mezing adds or turning off AE casters but.... *Sign* Our Magic Damage Ward sooo effective that there is no reason anymore to lock AE casters </DIV> <DIV>Stun? well again usefull vs. something unusually hard hitting or casters but oh wait we fogot mana drain lol</DIV> <DIV>Mana taping - that is truely usefull beleive you or not on EF boat ride with Consuming toughts and Anguish I was able suck dry dragon in less then 120 second</DIV> <DIV>Crack - well is usefull its a REAL reason why groups want to have coercer - Refresh+Breeze during combat extremely usefull but... as RamiroS said outside of combat? bleh tier 4-5 drinks you WILL regenerate faster then pulls happend</DIV> <DIV>Point where I'd agrue with you is "second rate nuker" - well stacking 3 dots + 2 nukes (with mana taps we can keep this circle infinitive) on a single target we no better no worst then wizard ~200 damage/tic via dots 450 Despotic Mind (adept 1) (on fully debuffed target) 185 Muddled thinking (adept 3) - we certanly not worst DPS class lol. </DIV> <DIV>But! all in all by lvl 40 we realized couple things .... CC aren't make a difference between life and death and I believe as RamiroS said having reactive Cheals virtually make tanks unkillable so go figure. Our DPS arent that great still better then some classes that "considers" as DPS (like monks or burisers or berserkers), Heck lol I still able outdamage rangers or my lvl w/o much trouble. I come to said conclusion that coercer as it now mostly support class with massive abilities of "healing" mana pool of group</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Blubby as long as cleric can keep up with mana (aka do nothing but healing) .... tank unkillable even vs. +++ X2-3 group kind of mobs</DIV>

[Parabola10]

<DIV>Well, what i thought was true, is being proven by those higher than me. I am lvl 33, and thinking of giving up. I realize I am nothing but a breeze [Removed for Content], and that bothers me alot. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>CC is never used in this game, maybe the occasional add here and there, but, so many aoe's that it is almost poinless to mez groups of mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes a TON of our spells are broken. I have never seen the aoe mez work, and there are 4-7 others I read on posts that just dont work period.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a broken class, and imo a mostly broken game, bahh fewk it.  Why cant people admit it, so many defend it. I am done defending it, i keep waiting for the next patch to fix things, but, all they do is break more stuff. SOE really dropped the ball if you asked me. All of us who studied this class and found it intriguing are left with a breeze [Removed for Content], 2nd rate nuker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im sick of it</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Parabola so to speak its not problem of coercer rather all casters .... as usual for EQ. No offense to developers but EQ2 been designed by team that made orginal EQ and Kurak (aka Vision (tm) team) and all veterans of EQ remeber how "usefull" were ANY casters during that time (save chanters). Why "I" dont give up - simple reason as soon as [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] hit fan and developers will see that lvl 45+ population of players consist only from melee and priests 1 of 2 things may happend. A) Casters get beafed B) Melee got nerfed</DIV> <DIV>Look at lvl 41 I have no problem in solo orange conned mob (solo) .... if I manange find one lol. Heck I'd prolly give a shot for solo low red mob (lvl 47-4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> if I could find any mob of this lvls marked "solo"... Problem comes then we start talking about "pack" of green conned mobs - ANY melee (including priests) can solo 3-5 greenies group .... try it with enchanter and you will be toasted... I'd say safely you can solo pack of monsters that at least 8 levels below you then our AC/damage avoidance become high enouth so we can solo (aka killing 4 deers lvl 33 at lvl 41 was rather funny... still I took a little damage). </DIV> <DIV>EQ2 have a bit less problem then EQ1 had by Kurnak and Velious time but! a lot more problems then EQ1 had past PoP time</DIV> <DIV>So folks dont give up - keep in your head history of necros in EQ1 from glory to dust from dust to glory ... tough second step took like 3 years <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Aery]

<DIV>man i figured the total uselessness of charm was being excagerated atleast a ittle till i got it. Tried it a couple times in normal groups (fighting oranges) and learned quickly that was a no go all instant breaks. So I was out in commonlands today raising fishing skill. I decided to try it out on some way grey mobs (level 12-15) out of 4 cast 2 insta breaks one about 1 second and the top one may have made 2 seconds. </DIV>

[Clarat]

<DIV>I'm lvl 47 now, with Beguile at Adept III.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I still haven't found a true use for the spell. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Off the top of my head, about 25% of the time the charm breaks in the first few seconds, 75% of the time it lasts 15-30 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Usually about the time I get the charm in, target the pet, and tell it to attack, it seems to pause a few seconds, then start swinging, and thats about when charm breaks.  The npc is usually pretty upset at me and thumps me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, I'm not casting cause i'm trying to get the pet happening, and the tank has to taunt to get this thing off me, and I'm not down in hp a bit because i got swung at a few times, so I need a little heal - there is 0 effective DPS out of a charmed pet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't know what the solution is, but having a high level spell that has no effective combat use is very disappointing.</DIV>

[Zmokyn]

<DIV>I hear you on the reactive CHeals making crowd control irrelevant.</DIV> <DIV>But the usefulness of that one technique to own all, suggests that a nerf of it is imminent, doesnt it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am amazed that people say they are leaving the game already because of stuff like this. Two months from release and already its unfixable? Irredeemable? A lost cause?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If nothing else, EQ1 should have taught us that there will be constant tweaks, nerfs, bugs and fixes. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. Any EQ1 veteran should be embarrassed to complain that what they got was not what the SOE marketing fluff promised. I mean, you didnt really believe any of that stuff, did you?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you cant stand being a buff bot for a while, go start an Inquisitor, and pray that the CHeal nerf doesnt arrive before you hit level 41.</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Beguile will get fixed eventually. But its anybodys guess what usefulness it might then have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQ isnt about having the most godly set of abilities. If you want that, go play a single player game with the cheat mode turned on.  Its about teamwork, and beating the challenge, regardless of what tools you have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[Zmokyn]

<DIV>I hear you on the reactive CHeals making crowd control irrelevant.</DIV> <DIV>But the usefulness of that one technique to own all, suggests that a nerf of it is imminent, doesnt it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am amazed that people say they are leaving the game already because of stuff like this. Two months from release and already its unfixable? Irredeemable? A lost cause?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If nothing else, EQ1 should have taught us that there will be constant tweaks, nerfs, bugs and fixes. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. Any EQ1 veteran should be embarrassed to complain that what they got was not what the SOE marketing fluff promised. I mean, you didnt really believe any of that stuff, did you?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you cant stand being a buff bot for a while, go start an Inquisitor, and pray that the CHeal nerf doesnt arrive before you hit level 41.</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Beguile will get fixed eventually. But its anybodys guess what usefulness it might then have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQ isnt about having the most godly set of abilities. If you want that, go play a single player game with the cheat mode turned on.  Its about teamwork, and beating the challenge, regardless of what tools you have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[Petgroup]

<DIV>I'm a level 42 Coercer. I charmed a level 18 Elephant in the commonlands for 4 seconds. Beguile is broken.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can go on forever about other mobs in groups, higher level mobs etc but I thought that the elephant would show clearly how bad this spell is. There is no reason why an adept 3 beguile is not lasting a full 30 seconds when I am taking 0 damage and aren't moving on a GREY MOB. </DIV>

[Jurojin]

Personally, I think it's [FaarNerfed!] that the Enchanter sub-classes (Coercer, Illusionist) are given strong DOTs and DD spells. Why? What does that have to do with Enchantment? Not a [FaarNerfed!] thing. These two sub-classes should be doing what the name implies: making mobs do what they wouldn't normally do in their right mind. In other words, coercing them into it, or giving them the illusion they are/are not.If I want DOTs, I go to a Shaman. If I want DD, I go to a Wizard. Enchanter sub-classes are for CC and Charming. They are not a pet class. They are not Shamans or Wizards. Stop making them as such. The class is broken. You should be charming earlier. That is what an Enchanter does.

[Jurojin]

<blockquote><hr>Parabola1022 wrote:<DIV>CC is never used in this game, maybe the occasional add here and there, but, so many aoe's that it is almost poinless to mez groups of mobs.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Are you even playing the same game? CC never used? Just going into Runnyeye or any dungeon for that matter, your better off having a chanter than someone AOEing to death. We had about 15 mobs at once the other night in Runnyeye and no way would AOE had helped that. But everything was fine b/c of the chanter and CC.You must be playing WoW. =)