Frustrating problem... Somebody solve it for me.

[Risq]

<DIV>I am finding that when the tank usually guardian, sometimes sk,  pulls mobs, outside or indoor, more than occassionally the mobs pulled will bypass the puller and head straight for me.  Luckily taunt works pretty decent at this point, but sometimes I take a beating requring heals.  This happens even if I have not buffed or cast any spells AFTER engagement.  I have had this happen even though I have not casted a single damage spell or buff for 2 pulls.  I  am level 22 and usually group with players around 3 to 4 levels higher than me.  I do take the time in between pulls to refresh haste and breezes .... is this causing it?  Is there something another class can do?  It's very frustrating.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any suggestions? </DIV>

[Fade]

<DIV>Daunting gaze and stupify are your friends. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cast it as first spell </DIV>

[Gorillaste]

<DIV>Happens to me all the time too.</DIV> <DIV>We can't seem to figure it out. We;ve tried everything, but sometimes mobs just get it in their head that they want to stomp the coercer.</DIV>

[Xy]

This happens to me all the time. So much so that my group notices it and tells me to stop casting on the mobs so early. I'm not casting on the mobs at all. My guess is the group buffs we have are a pulsing type spell that refreshes every so often and the buffing causes agro. What leads me to believe this is if you walk far enough away from your group you will lose their buffs and they will lose yours. What I can't figure out is why the monster would pick the chanter over any of the other buffing classes. But I don't know if other classes are running 4+ buffs at any given time as I am. /shrug But it's really annoying to pull groups of 5 and have 4 of em run at me every time.

[Skivviss]

<DIV>I've started to wonder if this is because I keep breeze on the puller/main tank in my groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't recall it happening until I got breeze, does anyone else notice this correllation?  (But I swear it doesn't always happens so it may be sporadic?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Chog]

<DIV>I noticed in Nek Forest the other day that the two lowest level characters in the group (me and the cleric) were getting agro on the pull consistently. I assumed it was level based. There is a level component to agro in EQ1. Maybe that's true of EQ2, and its even larger in EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW, this happened to me even when I was only maintaining 1 group buff. At the same time, the other mage and the shaman, who were also maintaining group buffs, got no agro, only the cleric and me.</DIV>

[Orki who Pos]

<DIV>For me it's only an issue every 20th fight or so, and then i pop in blink.  It helps, alot.</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Lol yes its level based ....somethat</DIV> <DIV>As a coercer I am usually lowest lvl in group (lvl 25 atm) sometime secondary healer can be same lvl or lower.  So MT already have hot-key "Stay on current target - I am taunting **mods 4 teh win!!1!** out coercer". He always turn auto afftack "off" and single target taunt always get mob of my inki sorry [Removed for Content]. Anyway at lvl 25 I can stay ground vs. lvl 27-30 mobs fairly good (aka I can tank em for a little while) I usually get hurt badly then I have to stop lvl 32+ mob if I not get instant heal I am pretty much toast in single round off attack</DIV>

[Serinde]

I've also read that this behavior is part of NPC AI.... like us, they will attack healers and casters first.

[Thi]

It don't think it's an issue based on the chanter being lower level than the rest of the group. I have had it happening quite a few times by now, especially when a group of mobs rushed unexpectedly at my group without the tank having pulled and taunted them and there were other group members with lower levels.So far I think the "pulsing buff" theory fits best. Other buffs like shields, wards, reactive heals etc. don't pulse, they just constantly stick on their target without actively doing anything. When you look at your power bar while having Breeze on yourself you notice not one but two increases per tick. It seems that our Breeze ticking away on up to 6 people is counted as 6 casts per tick with a little bit of aggro on each cast. So while the tank had time to grab aggro - no problem for the chanter. When no one has aggro, the chanter gets it <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Edit: I have compared myself to an EQ1 bard before because of the endless chain casts of Breeze and Alacrity. Thinking how EQ1 bards were indeed drawing aggro with their constantly pulsing songs, this pulsing buff theory makes us seem like something of an EQ2 equivalent to the EQ1 bard.And remember how the bards were always turning off their songs on incoming or else get rushed by the pull?EQ2 chanters - welcome to bard-dom <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Thila on <span class=date_text>12-03-2004</span> <span class=time_text>06:58 PM</span>

[Azmode]

<DIV>MOB AI has a big thing to do with it.  The MOB wants to take the casters out first.  Bards also get tons of aggro when they have songs going.   If you cast group haste as a Coercer before the tank can build aggro, you will make all the MOBS very angry on you.  </DIV>

[Jb]

<DIV>After considerable testing I do believe breeze is causing this massive aggro, however it is not so much that the buff is "pulsing". </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem is that while breeze is a buff, it effectively "heals" the power of the target for X points every Y seconds. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That means that when you get an add agroing someone in the group, or the tank pulls with a low damage/agro attack, in a matter of seconds you heal 6*X points of power generating agro before anyone else does anything. (short of the healer casting a large heal between the time breeze ticks and the instant you eat dirt) The main problem comes in with respawns agroing group members in the back where the tank can't see/target/taunt them in time. Forget the 1 second stun, I've had trouble getting off blink when agro'd from behind. Not to mention in a dungeon it may be better to stand your ground and bite the bullet rather than blinking into more agro causing a definate wipe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason you dont see that kind of agro with reactive heals is they offer no actual healing until the benefactor is hit. The shaman ward offers no aggro drawing effects untill it is recast (assuming it was cast before the pull in the first place). Druids get the worst of the three as casting regeneration causes the same effect as breeze agro wise. I have recently grouped with a druid as a backup healer who kept up regen and nuked while a shaman was our primary healer and he was getting the same excessive (sp?) agro problems as I have, as he did not factor the agro from regen into his nuking. This is extremely hurtfull to druids as it essentially requires a group delving into the deep to have a shaman primary healer with a cleric backup, at least by view of shortsighted players. (I will take a druid with a skilled player at the helm over an average shaman)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aside from beeing tiresome and causing burnout, this is another reason to limit your use of breeze. I always keep it permanently active on the healers, but the rest of the group is a tossup. The main tank is the next priority if he is using considerable power as he needs it to keep agro. The dps will often need it but more as an occasional heal for their power on a tough fight than a permanent buff. Mages also have their own means of improving power regeneration and should not solely rely on you. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I find that often I go without breeze myself. Not having to constantly expend power to give it to everyone in the group (who may never get below half in the first place) combined with consume ego and food/drink helps me maintain my own power at a safe level, and the less often I cast it the more often I dont have to wait for recast timer when someone really needs it. On a tough pull consume ego (at least at adept1) also gives you more than sufficient power to breeze yourself after initial cc, and there is plenty of time for it in between re-mezes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also can safely say that not beeing a buff bot does not hurt my group, as although everyone I group with knows I have breeze and what it does, I have only had one person ask for it and only in one instance (while we were standing around at zone waiting for another group member, a quick tell explaining the duration and recast time of breeze solved the issue). Not having debt to work off from freak agro one/two shotting me when I dont hit stun fast enough or get interupted is just another benefit to using your abilities wisely.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Haste can also be annoying at times as it has relatively high hate, however it seems to only generate it at the time it is cast. You can also avoid it's recast timer if you refresh it before it wears off, take advantage of this when the group is finishing off the last mob in the pull, before the tank runs off and pulls mid cast, as the last time it happened to me stuns were down and it took considerable effort on the healers' (plural) part to keep me alive.</DIV>

[Sanben]

Haste is a big aggro so don't cast it at the start of battle or in battle unless the tank has a good aggro on the mob.Haven't found breeze making much difference to aggro really, perhaps because it's cast individually while haste buffs the entire group.

[Jb]

<DIV>You cast breeze as a buff on individual people, but that is not what draws aggro. What draws agro is that every 6 seconds, You are deemed to have "healed" the player's power pool. You therefore get aggro for a 12 point heal (at adept 1 lvl 21) for every group member that has the effect currently active. Keep it on the whole party thats 84 points every 6 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Normaly this is not something that gets you crazy aggro from a mob. Where it does matter is when an extra add agroes someone in the group. Within 6 or more often less than 3 seconds, breeze will "tick" and restore the power generating agro towards you and the mob, or to be exact, the entire encounter that added will charge straight for you. Your only salvation is a quick fingered tank and healer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a long distance pull of 5-6 mobs when a tank pulls with the bow or a single target spell then runs back, breeze will tick 2-3 times before he reaches the group. Unless he did an ae taunt on the way and fires off hold the line when he gets to the group, all the mobs he didn't hit are on you. Now sure I can stun one and mez another before they get to me, but when's the last time you lived through 2-3 swings for 150-200 plus combat arts hitting for 400-550 or more in the low 20's? Usualy by that point all I have left is stupefy and even that doesn't help enough without a shaman's ward. I'm not even including resists fizzles or other such factors in the equasion.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I could blink when I see them charging for me, but a) it has a 9 minute recast b) it can put me in the middle of more agro c) it changes my position and therefore the direction of the mob, whether I loose agro or not, and could make the tank trying to taunt misstarget given unfortunate enough timing. Which according to murphy's law will happen more often than not, especially given a timeframe of 1-2 seconds.</DIV>

[Xalorous]

<DIV>I have had this problem happen to me once.  Result was total party wipeout from two orange mobs.  Same 1,2 group that we'd been fighting for a couple of hours with no problem.  When I was mezzing, stunning, and dotting.  I had kept breeze up all night long, so I'm not totally convinced that was why they aggroed on me.  We were relocating our group from one camp to another and they popped on us.  I was their first target.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was in the middle of the level range, we were 18-22.  No pull was involved.  I did notice them starting to come after me on the multiple pulls, but I think I had a very good pulling main tank.  I got hit maybe once or twice.  Never even used stun to keep them off.  I think he was using hold the line, or some other group taunt, as soon as he got to the group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another thing I have noticed is that, when fighting mobs that talk, they will occasionally say, "Kill the caster first!"  Remind you of anything?  I think maybe SOE decided that what works for us should work for the mobs too.  And made the low AC, low health pool caster the first priority, with the despised healer second.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Either way, the interim solution, (maybe permanent) is to ask the MT to group taunt as he reaches the group, to make him aware that mobs like to go for us, and the healers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Krowe Barre</DIV> <DIV>20 Coercer</DIV> <DIV>Blackburrow</DIV>

[gim]

The two reasons, as far as I can tell, are AI and Breeze. Breeze counts as heals, and Mobs are programmed to seek out healers and casters in many encounters... but you guys have probably figured that out already :p

[ganthornrodsu]

ive noticed this more often on long pulls. What happens is ill have haste up which is nasty agro when you initially cast it as we all know but when the tank runs far away to get something out of range of the buff it falls off, then when hes running back he gets into range and the haste hits him again and the mob thinks its as if you just cast it

[Tr]

<DIV>Hey, lvl 33 Coercer here form Innothule server. </DIV> <DIV>The Cause:  The problem you are having has nothing to do with the AI. It is rather simple actually... it all depends on your tank. If the puller pulls with an arrow then yes, when the mob aproaches it will pass the puller and the rest to beat on you. Why does that happen? It happens because arrow pull does not generate enough agro for the tank, so at the moment the person who is most beneficiarry to the group get all the agro. As a coercer i have 2 buffs always on (Signet of Insight) and (Power of Suggestion), plus the 5 Breezes for all of my groupies, plus (recklesness), makes a total of 8 buffs. This is what causes the agro. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solution:   Tell your tank to pull with Taunt instead of an arrow. Taunt generates way more agro then all your buffs combined, therefore you never get agro. If the mob you are trying to pull is in the middle of other mobs and only way to pull is by using arrow, then it is tanks responsibility to click taunt button when mob is in range but before it gets to the group. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall:  You do not have to do anything to try to lessen your agro, except ofcourse not to buff on pulls. It is tanks responsibility to keep the mob on himself. So either tell him to pull with taunt, or taunt just before mob reaches the party. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I havn't had this problem you're having in a long time. Happens once in a while, probably once per playing session, but then again people I group with are great at what they do. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[CappyFu]

<DIV>Luckily, I've have some great tanks grouping with me through my career. They pull with arrow/taunt/spell then when running back to the group the mobs will start breaking off him torward either me or the cleric. He then hits Shout (Area Taunt) and he pulls them all back to him.  Looks pretty funny at times you see a scary mob running at you then get pulled back like a yo-yo.</DIV>

[mou]

<DIV>This problem occurs on nearly every pull for me.</DIV> <DIV>I can stand there and not buff, not cast, not stun, not mez...just stand there...and the mob will go past a tank taunting....past a wizard nuking...past a healer healing...and attack me.</DIV> <DIV>I can sit and do absolutely nothing but cast breeze and recklessness BEFORE the mob was engaged (not yet taunted, not yet nuked, not stunned, not mezzed, nada, nothing) and catch agro EVERY time.  This particualr problem has nothing to do with actions during combat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Something is obviously wrong with the AI not taking into account active combatants versus non-active combatants.</DIV> <DIV>If I generate agro with dots and mezzes, fine...but getting attacked when I havent even cast during combat is wrong, badly wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think its the tank in my group or someway I play?  It isn't, check out this example that happens all the time as well:</DIV> <DIV>Cleric agroes a mob while running along path.</DIV> <DIV>Mob immediately turns and runs at me.  I am not close.  I did not agro the mob.  No one attacked the mob yet.  but the mob attacks me and not the cleric.</DIV> <DIV>I don't mean the cleric ran away from it and it agro'd me, I mean the mob IMMEDIATELY turns and runs at me even if I am not in range.</DIV> <DIV>The only time this doesn't happen is if I cast invisible on myself...THEN, the cleric gets the agro and not me in this same situation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both cases sound like major bug problems with agro BEFORE combat.</DIV> <DIV>No activity during combat should mean no ADDED agro....or at least I shouldnt die first on a run somewhere because ANY person in the group agro's...when I didnt.  At the very least they should die first, not me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/bug reported and hoping for a fix.</DIV>

[Valdaya]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mouse wrote:<BR> <DIV>This problem occurs on nearly every pull for me.</DIV> <DIV>I can stand there and not buff, not cast, not stun, not mez...just stand there...and the mob will go past a tank taunting....past a wizard nuking...past a healer healing...and attack me.</DIV> <DIV>I can sit and do absolutely nothing but cast breeze and recklessness BEFORE the mob was engaged (not yet taunted, not yet nuked, not stunned, not mezzed, nada, nothing) and catch agro EVERY time.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think its the tank in my group or someway I play? <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Yes, it's the tank in your group.  Breeze counts as a 'mana heal' each tick of effect that it has, and that little bit of mana restoration is causing the agro on you.  How do you solve it?  Have your tank pull with his Taunt/Shout skill.  Then he'll have generated enough agro to hold things off you, because the agro you've earned is very small, it just happens to be more than anyone else has at the start of a fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the tank pulls with arrows which generate minimal hate, or a wandering monster just agros on a group member on its own, they'll come after you due to Breeze.  So, have a talk with your tank and have him change his pulling style.</DIV>