I found out how coercer "charm" spell works. [Archive]

12-04-2004, 03:48 AM

<DIV>Does charming a mob that is part of an encounter break the encounter?<BR>If no, do you have to release and kill the pet before you get encounter credit?<BR>Is the recast time still 8 seconds?<BR>Does the power cost allow you to drag, say, a green^^ mob and attemt to keep it perma charmed?<BR>Do succesive charm casts have highier chance of resist/break?<BR>If you root a mob before charming it, will the root remain in effect once charm lands? when it breaks?</DIV> <DIV>Does the agro generated by your pet vanish or transfer to you when charm breaks? when it dies?<BR>Does melancholy remain in effect when the mob is charmed? If yes doest it improve duration/reduce chance of breaking early? If no does it reduce initial resists?</DIV> <DIV>When charming a mob with its own buffs do they remain in effect? Do they take effect on you? On your group?</DIV> <DIV>Does charming different mobs (with different resistances) affect resit rate significantly? duration? Are animals generaly more reliable pets than humanoids?</DIV> <DIV>Are there any special/named npc's you cannot charm? If so what was it and does it simply reist every time or did you get a message that this monster is uncharmable? Have you tried named mobs?<BR>If you charm a single mob that is by itself a group encounter, do you get encounter credit for slaying it when charm breaks? ie: sic it on another mob, cast a single dot so it wins marginally remaining at 20% hp or less, break charm, kill it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't hold out on us, we're dying of curiosity =)</DIV> <DIV><BR>Next step would be lvl 45 to test it in conjunction with Ravaged Psychie.</DIV> <DIV>Then how effective it is in the end game. What's the maximum level mob a level 37 spell will affect?</DIV>

Aelvena

12-04-2004, 11:51 AM

<DIV>Grats SOE lev 37/38 are crap(like a lot of other spells ), yes incl charm</DIV> <DIV>oki its a charm thread....so charm first...</DIV> <DIV>i have charm but i never use it: </DIV> <DIV>-30 sec is a **mods 4 teh win!!1!** short time (i have just app2 atm)</DIV> <DIV>- if you move charm will breake</DIV> <DIV>-if the charmed mob take damage, charm will breake</DIV> <DIV>i dont know any situation where you can realy use charm</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the haruspex (level 3<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> spell is more a joke, wonder why they dont call it a funspell - mobs made ae damage on allys if they attack ...but the damage is so very very low ... you dont see anything on the hp bar after 4,5 ae atatcks</DIV> <DIV>lev 37 - unless spell too, i dont have the spell in my spellbar - i never use it</DIV> <DIV>why? - ok the idea is nice...the spell root the maob and the mob do like 50% damage if they rootet with this spell, BUT in reality - what kind of root hold longer than 2 sec if 6 player hit and nuke the mob? - you cast this spell and after the next nuke or attack ability of anyone in the party is the spell over...1-2 sec</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>a wizzard made more and more damage with the level he raise up, a cleric have better heals...all class have a upgrade over some time...but not the coercer....</DIV> <DIV>i still use with lev 38 my lev 28 dd, my lev 22 mez (grey), ae mez is a joke (longer recasttimer than the spellduration on adept 1)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we have a lot of groupbuffs, ok but...manaregenspell is singletarget and the short duration made it almost not impossible buff all partymmeber permanent</DIV> <DIV>i dont see any different between the low level int group buff and the high level one...ok i have more int and agi...but i nuke with the same damage, manaregen is the same....thanks soe for the upgrades every 4,5 levels...lol</DIV> <DIV>i try the procbuff now some time... - the tank or rogue dont have any proc in all the time ....unless spell atm</DIV> <DIV>why group with a coercer? - just for mez? </DIV> <DIV>if we are supporter than give the buffs a longer duration than 2-3 min or made the singlebuffs to groupbuffs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ok the eq1 enchanter is overpower - i have a chanty in eq1 since beta....</DIV> <DIV>but the eq2 chanter (coercer) is a joke atm - i dont know what kind of role he play in a party...no damagedealer (ok if i ll be a dd i ll play a wiz) - but he isnt a supporter atm - no fulltime supporter (to weak buffs with a to short duration)</DIV> <DIV>beside bosskills and like this is a party atm better if they kick the chanter and take a wizzard or warlok.</DIV> <DIV>and no, i am not a noob chanter ....atm nr1 worldwide coercer and chanty since closed beta</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Aelvenara on <SPAN class=date_text>12-03-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:53 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Aelvenara on <span class=date_text>12-03-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:56 PM</span>

Ramir

12-04-2004, 05:24 PM

<DIV><FONT size=2> <P><EM>Does charming a mob that is part of an encounter break the encounter?</EM></P> <P>No.</P> <P><EM>If no, do you have to release and kill the pet before you get encounter credit?</EM></P> <P>I'd have to test this - I've never had a charmed pet who lasted until the encounter was over.</P> <P><EM>Does the power cost allow you to drag, say, a green^^ mob and attemt to keep it perma charmed?</EM></P> <P>The power cost is reasonable. You can't 'perma-charm', since you can't cast charm while its your pet. You have to let it break first.</P> <P><EM>Does the agro generated by your pet vanish or transfer to you when charm breaks? when it dies?</EM></P> <P>Does melancholy remain in effect when the mob is charmed? If yes doest it improve duration/reduce chance of breaking early? If no does it reduce initial resists?</P> <P>When charming a mob with its own buffs do they remain in effect? Do they take effect on you? On your group?</P> <P>Does charming different mobs (with different resistances) affect resit rate significantly? duration? Are animals generaly more reliable pets than humanoids?</P> <P>Are there any special/named npc's you cannot charm? If so what was it and does it simply reist every time or did you get a message that this monster is uncharmable? Have you tried named mobs?</P> <P>If you charm a single mob that is by itself a group encounter, do you get encounter credit for slaying it when charm breaks? ie: sic it on another mob, cast a single dot so it wins marginally remaining at 20% hp or less, break charm, kill it.</P> <P></P> <P></P> <P>Don't hold out on us, we're dying of curiosity =)</P> <P>Next step would be lvl 45 to test it in conjunction with Ravaged Psychie.</P> <P>Then how effective it is in the end game. What's the maximum level mob a level 37 spell will affect?</P> <P></P> <P>12-03-2004 02:48 PM Rate this message: 1 2 3 4 5 (Best) </P> <P>Report Abuse to a Moderator </P> <P></P> <P>Reply </P> <P></P> <P>charm is the worest crap ever at the moment, like a lot of other coercer spells [ NEW ] Options </P> <P></P> <P>Aelvenara</P> <P>Newbie</P> <P>Posts: 2</P> <P>Registered: 11-09-2004</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Viewed 43 times</P> <P> </P> <P></P> <P>Grats SOE lev 37/38 are crap(like a lot of other spells ), yes incl charm</P> <P>oki its a charm thread....so charm first...</P> <P>i have charm but i never use it: </P> <P>-30 sec is a **mods 4 teh win!!1!** short time (i have just app2 atm)</P> <P>- if you move charm will breake</P> <P>-if the charmed mob take damage, charm will breake</P> <P>i dont know any situation where you can realy use charm</P> <P></P> <P>the haruspex (level 3<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> spell is more a joke, wonder why they dont call it a funspell - mobs made ae damage on allys if they attack ...but the damage is so very very low ... you dont see anything on the hp bar after 4,5 ae atatcks</P> <P>lev 37 - unless spell too, i dont have the spell in my spellbar - i never use it</P> <P>why? - ok the idea is nice...the spell root the maob and the mob do like 50% damage if they rootet with this spell, BUT in reality - what kind of root hold longer than 2 sec if 6 player hit and nuke the mob? - you cast this spell and after the next nuke or attack ability of anyone in the party is the spell over...1-2 sec</P> <P></P> <P>a wizzard made more and more damage with the level he raise up, a cleric have better heals...all class have a upgrade over some time...but not the coercer....</P> <P><EM>i still use with lev 38 my lev 28 dd, my lev 22 mez (grey), ae mez is a joke (longer recasttimer than the spellduration on adept 1)</EM></P> <P></P> <P>I </P> <P>we have a lot of groupbuffs, ok but...manaregenspell is singletarget and the short duration made it almost not impossible buff all partymmeber permanent</P> <P>i dont see any different between the low level int group buff and the high level one...ok i have more int and agi...but i nuke with the same damage, manaregen is the same....thanks soe for the upgrades every 4,5 levels...lol</P> <P>i try the procbuff now some time... - the tank or rogue dont have any proc in all the time ....unless spell atm</P> <P>why group with a coercer? - just for mez? </P> <P>if we are supporter than give the buffs a longer duration than 2-3 min or made the singlebuffs to groupbuffs</P> <P></P> <P>ok the eq1 enchanter is overpower - i have a chanty in eq1 since beta....</P> <P>but the eq2 chanter (coercer) is a joke atm - i dont know what kind of role he play in a party...no damagedealer (ok if i ll be a dd i ll play a wiz) - but he isnt a supporter atm - no fulltime supporter (to weak buffs with a to short duration)</P> <P>beside bosskills and like this is a party atm better if they kick the chanter and take a wizzard or warlok.</P> <P>and no, i am not a noob chanter ....atm nr1 worldwide coercer and chanty since closed beta</P> <P></P> <P></P></FONT></DIV>

Ramir

12-04-2004, 05:24 PM

<DIV><FONT size=2> <P><EM>Does charming a mob that is part of an encounter break the encounter?</EM></P> <P>No.</P> <P><EM>If no, do you have to release and kill the pet before you get encounter credit?</EM></P> <P>I'd have to test this - I've never had a charmed pet who lasted until the encounter was over.</P> <P><EM>Does the power cost allow you to drag, say, a green^^ mob and attemt to keep it perma charmed?</EM></P> <P>The power cost is reasonable. You can't 'perma-charm', since you can't cast charm while its your pet. You have to let it break first.</P> <P><EM>Does the agro generated by your pet vanish or transfer to you when charm breaks? when it dies?</EM></P> <P>Does melancholy remain in effect when the mob is charmed? If yes doest it improve duration/reduce chance of breaking early? If no does it reduce initial resists?</P> <P>When charming a mob with its own buffs do they remain in effect? Do they take effect on you? On your group?</P> <P>Does charming different mobs (with different resistances) affect resit rate significantly? duration? Are animals generaly more reliable pets than humanoids?</P> <P>Are there any special/named npc's you cannot charm? If so what was it and does it simply reist every time or did you get a message that this monster is uncharmable? Have you tried named mobs?</P> <P>If you charm a single mob that is by itself a group encounter, do you get encounter credit for slaying it when charm breaks? ie: sic it on another mob, cast a single dot so it wins marginally remaining at 20% hp or less, break charm, kill it.</P> <P></P> <P></P> <P>Don't hold out on us, we're dying of curiosity =)</P> <P>Next step would be lvl 45 to test it in conjunction with Ravaged Psychie.</P> <P>Then how effective it is in the end game. What's the maximum level mob a level 37 spell will affect?</P> <P></P> <P>12-03-2004 02:48 PM Rate this message: 1 2 3 4 5 (Best) </P> <P>Report Abuse to a Moderator </P> <P></P> <P>Reply </P> <P></P> <P>charm is the worest crap ever at the moment, like a lot of other coercer spells [ NEW ] Options </P> <P></P> <P>Aelvenara</P> <P>Newbie</P> <P>Posts: 2</P> <P>Registered: 11-09-2004</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Viewed 43 times</P> <P> </P> <P></P> <P>Grats SOE lev 37/38 are crap(like a lot of other spells ), yes incl charm</P> <P>oki its a charm thread....so charm first...</P> <P>i have charm but i never use it: </P> <P>-30 sec is a **mods 4 teh win!!1!** short time (i have just app2 atm)</P> <P>- if you move charm will breake</P> <P>-if the charmed mob take damage, charm will breake</P> <P>i dont know any situation where you can realy use charm</P> <P></P> <P>the haruspex (level 3<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> spell is more a joke, wonder why they dont call it a funspell - mobs made ae damage on allys if they attack ...but the damage is so very very low ... you dont see anything on the hp bar after 4,5 ae atatcks</P> <P>lev 37 - unless spell too, i dont have the spell in my spellbar - i never use it</P> <P>why? - ok the idea is nice...the spell root the maob and the mob do like 50% damage if they rootet with this spell, BUT in reality - what kind of root hold longer than 2 sec if 6 player hit and nuke the mob? - you cast this spell and after the next nuke or attack ability of anyone in the party is the spell over...1-2 sec</P> <P></P> <P>a wizzard made more and more damage with the level he raise up, a cleric have better heals...all class have a upgrade over some time...but not the coercer....</P> <P><EM>i still use with lev 38 my lev 28 dd, my lev 22 mez (grey), ae mez is a joke (longer recasttimer than the spellduration on adept 1)</EM></P> <P></P> <P>I should </P> <P>we have a lot of groupbuffs, ok but...manaregenspell is singletarget and the short duration made it almost not impossible buff all partymmeber permanent</P> <P>i dont see any different between the low level int group buff and the high level one...ok i have more int and agi...but i nuke with the same damage, manaregen is the same....thanks soe for the upgrades every 4,5 levels...lol</P> <P>i try the procbuff now some time... - the tank or rogue dont have any proc in all the time ....unless spell atm</P> <P>why group with a coercer? - just for mez? </P> <P>if we are supporter than give the buffs a longer duration than 2-3 min or made the singlebuffs to groupbuffs</P> <P></P> <P>ok the eq1 enchanter is overpower - i have a chanty in eq1 since beta....</P> <P>but the eq2 chanter (coercer) is a joke atm - i dont know what kind of role he play in a party...no damagedealer (ok if i ll be a dd i ll play a wiz) - but he isnt a supporter atm - no fulltime supporter (to weak buffs with a to short duration)</P> <P>beside bosskills and like this is a party atm better if they kick the chanter and take a wizzard or warlok.</P> <P>and no, i am not a noob chanter ....atm nr1 worldwide coercer and chanty since closed beta</P> <P></P> <P></P></FONT></DIV>

12-05-2004, 01:16 AM

<DIV>Somehow, I expected charm to be .. well.. not what I expected.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the root that makes the mob do 50% dmg, I can see throwing that on one of the adds, you can only mez 3 mobs at a time so with a 4th add it cant hurt to throw this on it so it does half the damage while it waits to be run over by the assist train.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>by perma charm, i meant recast when it wears off. but if it breaks every time you move its pretty pointless to try to drag a mob with you. Even more so that you rarely fight less than oranges in a full group so I can see it beeing hard enough just to find something it'll stick on. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Jbex on <span class=date_text>12-17-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:45 AM</span>

Manusra

12-11-2004, 12:02 AM

<DIV>You should be able to charm a mob and keep it for like 5 mins then recharm. Why cant we have true charming :smileysad:</DIV>

Ol'b

12-11-2004, 09:19 AM

<DIV> <DIV>Grats SOE lev 37/38 are crap(like a lot of other spells ), yes incl charm</DIV> <DIV>oki its a charm thread....so charm first...</DIV> <DIV>i have charm but i never use it:</DIV> <DIV>-30 sec is a **mods 4 teh win!!1!** short time (i have just app2 atm)</DIV> <DIV>- if you move charm will breake</DIV> <DIV>-if the charmed mob take damage, charm will breake</DIV> <DIV>i dont know any situation where you can realy use charm</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the haruspex (level 3<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> spell is more a joke, wonder why they dont call it a funspell - mobs made ae damage on allys if they attack ...but the damage is so very very low ... you dont see anything on the hp bar after 4,5 ae atatcks</DIV> <DIV>lev 37 - unless spell too, i dont have the spell in my spellbar - i never use it</DIV> <DIV>why? - ok the idea is nice...the spell root the maob and the mob do like 50% damage if they rootet with this spell, BUT in reality - what kind of root hold longer than 2 sec if 6 player hit and nuke the mob? - you cast this spell and after the next nuke or attack ability of anyone in the party is the spell over...1-2 sec</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>a wizzard made more and more damage with the level he raise up, a cleric have better heals...all class have a upgrade over some time...but not the coercer....</DIV> <DIV>i still use with lev 38 my lev 28 dd, my lev 22 mez (grey), ae mez is a joke (longer recasttimer than the spellduration on adept 1)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we have a lot of groupbuffs, ok but...manaregenspell is singletarget and the short duration made it almost not impossible buff all partymmeber permanent</DIV> <DIV>i dont see any different between the low level int group buff and the high level one...ok i have more int and agi...but i nuke with the same damage, manaregen is the same....thanks soe for the upgrades every 4,5 levels...lol</DIV> <DIV>i try the procbuff now some time... - the tank or rogue dont have any proc in all the time ....unless spell atm</DIV> <DIV>why group with a coercer? - just for mez?</DIV> <DIV>if we are supporter than give the buffs a longer duration than 2-3 min or made the singlebuffs to groupbuffs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ok the eq1 enchanter is overpower - i have a chanty in eq1 since beta....</DIV> <DIV>but the eq2 chanter (coercer) is a joke atm - i dont know what kind of role he play in a party...no damagedealer (ok if i ll be a dd i ll play a wiz) - but he isnt a supporter atm - no fulltime supporter (to weak buffs with a to short duration)</DIV> <DIV>beside bosskills and like this is a party atm better if they kick the chanter and take a wizzard or warlok.</DIV> <DIV>and no, i am not a noob chanter ....atm nr1 worldwide coercer and chanty since closed beta</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Aelvenara on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>12-03-2004</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>10:53 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Aelvenara on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>12-03-2004</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>10:56 PM</SPAN></P> <P></P> <DIV> <P><A href="http://www.feral-fires.com/" target=_blank>www.feral-fires.com</A></P></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im Having many of the same issues as my Coercer gets into higher levels.. Im very curious if the DD Illusionist get at 29 stacks up to the Coercer 28 DD despotic mind .. If it does anywhere near the damage then thats total BS.... As far as i can tell the Illusionist is every bit as offensive as the Coercer and they get a AOE mezz.. The AOE my coercer has atm is totally worthless and from what i hear the Illusionist is a better upper level buffer....</DIV>

kil5t3

12-12-2004, 09:38 PM

Wow, some people have real issues with "coloring within the lines." Anyway...JBex is right on about "Forced Hesitation" (root). I couldn't have said it better myself.Of course, you want something more challenging, well...Instead of rooting or stunning the mob and negating it's damage, you can "root" yourself (not really, but the spell will break if you move so...) and instead the mob does full damage... to another mob! OMG!!"If you move, charm will break."If you have to move every 30 seconds or less, you have other issues to worry about. Either take your hand off the directional keys and spam your, "/em is a twitcher" hotbutton, or figure out who's training you. (If you accidently get another encounter to add, you have your, "Oops, we missed our stage marker and should have been standing over there... now save us!" spell... you know the one.)"If the charmed mob takes damage, charm will break."I'm sorry, but our purpose is not to compete with other archtypes. We are mages first, lest you forget. Put simply, this is a dps/cc spell, not an "insta-fighter" spell. (I. personally, cannot find any information about the alleged Illusionist "equivalent," so I have no way of comparing the two.)Also, it sounds like this spell is no different than any other, in terms of what mobs it will land on and how often it will land on them. Upgrade it decently and I'm sure it will serve its purpose as a useful CC spell quite well.The average large encounter has, what... 6 mobs you need to worry about? Call it cake, call it pie, call it - mez three, charm one, root one, stun one, we're done!I'm just going to come out and say it - Aelvenara, you've been playing your EQ1 chanter for way too long. I only hope you stick around...

Orki who Pos

12-13-2004, 04:41 AM

<DIV>>The average large encounter has, what... 6 mobs you need to worry about? Call it cake, call it pie, call it </DIV> <DIV>>- mez three, charm one, root one, stun one, we're done!<BR></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4>If there's 6 non caster mobs in camp, try just saying "AE" to the group instead and stun one, way easier, way faster, way more efficient.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4>I hate to break it to you, but CC isnt needed in single encounters anymore.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><BR><BR>>I'm just going to come out and say it - </DIV> <DIV>>Aelvenara, you've been playing your EQ1 chanter for way too long. I only hope you stick around...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=5>Hint: <FONT size=4>Try the above, you'r the one stuck in the wrong game here if you mez that mutch</FONT>.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS: 2 healers arent needed for that tactic, it can be hard if its a shammie, otherwise its cake, and if there's another mage class, its easier than you think.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PPS: It's getting abit annoying on theese forums with medicore players, and people that dont know what they'r talking about, telling good ones that this is not eq1.</DIV>

kil5t3

12-13-2004, 03:05 PM

Yes, I keep forgetting, there's a big difference between a casual gamer and "the frequent gamer" (whatever term you prefer to use.) I try to make do with whomever I can get in a group because I don't have a lot of time to play and would rather not spend what time I have waiting for all the right people to show up. Please forgive me if this is not on par with the average player, but that's who I am. I'm here to have fun. Everyone I play with is happy I'm in their group and happy with my tactics. That's all I care about and for those like me, I think it will work as well.No, I don't usually mez that much. It was simply an example of a hard encounter. I should have made that clear then, but I am now.I don't know why you included my statement to Aelvenra, you didn't comment on anything he said, except for having played eq1.What's your idea of a mediocre player? A good player? I can't tell what your ideas behind these terms are, please explain.I think it was pretty clear why I said, "This is not eq1." I'll only say that when I think it's appropriate. In fact, that's the first time I've said that to anyone, ever. A lot of Aelvenra's comments seemed obviously mis-guided. Either tell me specifically why you think I shouldn't have said that, or don't reply becuase your intention would obviously then not be to communicate. If he wants an apology, he can ask for one himself. If you want an explination, just say so.<p>Message Edited by kil5t3lr on <span class=date_text>12-13-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:10 AM</span>

Orki who Pos

12-13-2004, 03:46 PM

<DIV>The thread is about charm, and charm needs some work.. but to sum up where you went wrong...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In eq1 very few classes had efficient AE spells, and mobs had high HP, so area damage was mostly inefficient. (uneless the group was built for just that)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In eq1 on multi mob pulls, you mezzed the adds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In eq2 on multi mob pulls (1 encounter) the mobs have significantly less hp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In eq2 many classes have area attacks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In eq1 warriors did not have area taunt</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In eq2 they do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To sum theese up, in eq2, on multi mob pulls (1 encounter) it's alot more efficient to do area damage than mez, even more so for illusionists than coercers.</DIV> <DIV>The exception is on spellcasters that does area damage. (6 of them can hurt)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When pulling 2 mobs, area damage isnt that good, so mez/charm one. (Unfortunately charms not that good, so just mez it)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS: If you only have 2 hours to play, use those 15 minutes it takes to get a good group, even if it takes 40 minutes to make one, you'r still better off with that than joining a bad group.</DIV>

kil5t3

12-14-2004, 08:57 AM

I see what your saying about AE and I appreciate the way in which you described your ideas.I guess I have a problem finding any tank that can hold aggro on more than one mob at a time for very long. I don't know why this is, but I have tried using very little CC and it fails. The tank takes too much damage at once and the healer has to rush health to him, which leads to the healer getting attacked. So, I stop that from happening. If I knew what all those tanks were doing wrong, I wouldn't hesitate to tell them. Either the tank needs improvement, or it's the fact that we're always fighting encounters of 5-6 orange++ mobs. It could also be that it's not just the tank, but other members of the group as well. All I know is, I've tried doing it both ways and only one has worked consistently so far. Were it that the tank could live without the healer casting so much, I'm sure I would take this into account and do more of what you're saying because it's obviously a good idea. I still cast AE spells when I know they'll be effective. Again, I think you have much better luck finding good players than I do, even though I try as much as you suggested. So, you can make use of different tactics when with a good group, which for you is pretty often, but with my tactics I can make almost any group work and still have a good time. I think both our approaches are valid, just under different circumstances. To each their own.

Lord Bi

12-14-2004, 08:36 PM

Sorry to hijack further, but...Maybe before you come here criticizing people and speaking down to everyone, you wanna get _your_ facts straight.<DIV>In eq1 very few classes had efficient AE spells, and mobs had high HP, so area damage was mostly inefficient. (uneless the group was built for just that)</DIV>This statement is non-sequitir. If it's true that a) "very few classes had efficient AE spells", and b) "mobs had high HP", then it does NOT follow that "area damage was mostly inefficient".Also, a) is debatable based on your definition of "very few" and "efficient", and b) is also questionable since some mobs had very few hps.Maybe what you meant was, if a) and b), then most groups didn't utilize aoe tactics because it wasn't _as efficient_ for that group as some other tactic?I'll assume that's what you meant, and while it's at least logically coherent, it's wrong too. The reason is, in eq1 if you ever _could_ manage to ae a significant set of mobs (say around 10), it was ALWAYS more efficient (in terms of mobs or xp per minute, say) than anything else. Even if half your group was sitting around doing nothing, it was still more efficient.<DIV>In eq1 on multi mob pulls, you mezzed the adds.</DIV>Not always, and the obvious exception is the aoe group we're discussing. Off-tanking is another example.<DIV>In eq2 on multi mob pulls (1 encounter) the mobs have significantly less hp.</DIV>OK, if you say so. <DIV>In eq2 many classes have area attacks.</DIV>OK, if you say so.<DIV>In eq1 warriors did not have area taunt</DIV>Huh? Yes, they did actually, but if you'd actually done any aoe grouping in that game you'd know that it doesn't matter since the enchanter(s) job was to stunlock everything. This was the critical lynchpin of the aoe group, and without it you were screwed. Nobody, not even a warrior, can take that many mobs pounding on them at the same time, obviously.<DIV>In eq2 they do.</DIV>Disregarding, based on false premise.AOE has a place in eq2, just like eq1. It's not _always_ the best choice now, just like it wasn't then.

Orki who Pos

12-15-2004, 06:19 PM

<DIV>In eq2, if you have 2 mages with decent AE (non-coercers) and the pull is 3+ mobs in 1 encounter.. AE damage is the best strategy, every time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The trick is in eq2, when an encounter has 10 mobs in it, they will both hit for less, and have significantly less hp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>btw:</DIV> <DIV>>This statement is non-sequitir. If it's true that a) "very few classes had efficient AE spells", and </DIV> <DIV>>b) "mobs had high HP", then it does NOT follow that "area damage was mostly inefficient".</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>No, it is the reasons why it is efficient in EQ2 where it was not in EQ1.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>>In eq1 on multi mob pulls, you mezzed the adds.</DIV> <DIV>>Not always, and the obvious exception is the aoe group we're discussing. Off-tanking is another example.</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Off tanking was used, when you did not have an enchanter in the group, when the mob could not be mezzed, or when your enchanter was busy charming.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>AE groups was a rather extreeme beast in eq1, and was nerfed hard. It would not have been possible without an enchanter and often two. (I played one)</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>>Huh? Yes, they did actually, but if you'd actually done any aoe grouping in that game you'd know that it doesn't matter since the enchanter(s) job was to stunlock </DIV> <DIV>>everything. This was the critical lynchpin of the aoe group, and without it you were screwed. Nobody, not even a warrior, can take that many mobs pounding on them </DIV> <DIV>>at the same time, obviously.</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Very late in the game warriors got an area taunt, but as you say, it was useless due to that they couldnt take the hits.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>In eq2 they both have the area taunt, and can take the hits. = my point</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In eq1 you had to build your group specifically for AE damage, in EQ2 most groups have the ability.</DIV> <DIV>The difference here is vast, it goes from rather uncommon, to rather likely, and changes the gameplay..... as i was trying to illustrate.</DIV>

Orki who Pos

12-15-2004, 06:30 PM

<DIV>>I see what your saying about AE and I appreciate the way in which you described your ideas.<BR><STRONG>Thankee :o)</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR>>I guess I have a problem finding any tank that can hold aggro on more than one mob at a time for very long.</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Yes, that is the hard part, when i find one i write his name down, so i know who to look up when making a group.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>>The tank takes too much damage at once and the healer has to rush health to him,</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>When that starts to happen, it's gonna hit the fan. Very often we try with a blue group first to see how it pans out.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>What you need is a good guardian, with very high ac. If you got a paper tank, he's going down too fast.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>>If I knew what all those tanks were doing wrong, I wouldn't hesitate to tell them.</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Me too, i dont play a tank, and my RL friend who plays one holds aggro nicely.. he plays like i probably would.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Just keep an eye out for the good ones.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>> fighting encounters of 5-6 orange++ mobs.</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>When you write orange ++, i hope its not orange ^^ mobs, </STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>If more than one of those are in the camp at once, definitely mez it. Those are NOT made for area damage.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>If more than 3 orange ^^ mobs are in camp i usually start yelling evac, heh.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>- There is no real point in fighting multiple encounters at once since area spells mostly hit one encounter only, and i have never seen an encounter with more than one ^^ mob.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>The mobs made for area damage has no ^'s at all.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>The boss in an encounter might have ^^, but the rest will have none, in that case, mez the boss and AE the rest.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>> It could also be that it's not just the tank, but other members of the group as well.</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Some classes (bards/monks/...) can significantly boost the tanks survivability, but besides that, it's all up to the tank really :o(</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>I have 2 lists, the good list and the bad one.. i wont group with a tank from the bad one.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>>Again, I think you have much better luck finding good players than I do, even though I try as much as you suggested. So, you can make use of different tactics when</DIV> <DIV>> with a good group, which for you is pretty often, but with my tactics I can make almost any group work and still have a good time. I think both our approaches are</DIV> <DIV>> valid, just under different circumstances. To each their own.</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Yes :o(</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Half of it is luck, half of it is experience, and knowing exactly who/what to look for.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Having played online games on a rather excessive level earlier helps.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>A good trick is, allways take charge. If i dont, someone worse might.. atleast that's my reasoning. :p</STRONG></DIV><p>Message Edited by Orki who Posts on <span class=date_text>12-16-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:54 AM</span>

kil5t3

12-16-2004, 03:58 AM

When I wrote ++, I meant ^^. I find groups all the time where everyone's very close in level and looking to do these encounters. Like you said, though, it can't be done without CC. The nice thing about it is that there's so much xp packed into that one group, that you're much less concerned with any scarcities.I see a lot of people on my server taking this approach, so I only assumed... too much. By my logic, I thought you were doing AE with mobs of that relative level. Obviously, there were some oversights, but this happens all the time, so the only point is that we were able to uncover them.The groups I'm in kill an orange++ mob in less than a minute (I haven't timed it). Judging by your reaction before, you might be inclined to disbelieve me. If I haden't experienced it for myself, I'd have the same reaction. I just know it happens and I love it. Anyway, throughout the entire assist-train process, I keep everyone's power at least above 1/4, the cleric can focus on the MT and keep his health above 1/4 and everyone else can "goto town." All I need to do is know which mob the tank will attack first and go off that. In between casting CC, I'm DoTing the active mob, casting breeze on whoever needs it (priority: cleric, MT, me) and converting my health to power at every opportunuty. Once in a while, we need a break, but mostly we just grind along. Like you said, "take charge." Well, I think I do that to such an extent as to be working way more than everyone else! I certainly don't mind...On a side note, I also like killing ++ mobs because they drop the most loot.How do you progress through an encounter?p.s. - Another factor, which I just thought of, is what levels our spells are at. It would take a lot of time to understand how that factors in, though...<p>Message Edited by kil5t3lr on <span class=date_text>12-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>03:00 PM</span>

Krelfeari

12-16-2004, 10:36 AM

<DIV>Ok, Ok, /em spits out his bubble gum</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me just say that some of the people on this forum need to use their brains a bit. If u think charm sucks don't spam and flame the forums cause ur ego from EQ1 is transcending time and space and *gasp* even video games. Don't start trashing or blabbering on about classes you have not played. If you are a coercer and have never played an Illusionist then shut up.</DIV> <DIV>I don't care if your best friend joey is an illusionist and says its better</DIV> <DIV>I don't care if your mom is an illusionist and says its better</DIV> <DIV>You don't really have any idea unless you've played one so if u have not stop comparing them and shut up.</DIV> <DIV>Also, if i wanna repeat what forum mods that work for SONY have said then i will go ahead and say "THIS IS NOT EQ LIVE" so you can take ur lvl 65's and all your PO KRAP somewhere else other than these forums.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I swear lol, you concieted unhappy little people.....YOU COULD NEVER BE PLEASED!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not in a million years of infinite wealth and good fortune could you be content?! IF THE COERCER SUCKS THEN CHANGE YOUR * zzzz [Removed for Content]* CLASS AND SHUT.......quiet down please....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you think you can make a better game go ahead and try, i'll whatch you suck and i'll point and laugh the whole time.</DIV> <DIV>Don't like EQ2's classes or their skills then leave. Atleast go into the game and send in some feedback. But your an absolute [Removed for Content] if you really believe your spamming and flaming here is gonna get a dev member at Sony to think "Wow this complaining, whining, unhappy, pathetic little person has a good point and i'll get to work right away just to please them and make their tiny world alllllll better!" well.....YOUR WRONG......go to bed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> blah....lucan for pres damnit....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/em washes the taste of hate and dissrespect out of his mouth from reading this thread.</DIV>

Borgenhau

12-17-2004, 11:10 AM

<DIV> So in a nutshell it sounds like.. in EQ2.. charm isn't there to give you a pet. It's CC. It's taking something that's specifically *not* your slave and forcing it to take an action/actions that it really doesn't want to. It's like a mez that lets you have the mezzed mob do a little damage to another mob that's engaged by someone else in the group... It's not a tool to aid in soloing, nor to give you DPS to make a nuker gnash their teeth. It's still a useful spell.. yes, it doesn't resemble charm in EQ1.. forget EQ1. EQ2 has a different take on the way things would work should a fantasy world come to life and none of it is unreasonable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> You are wrapping the mind of a creature to your will.. it requires you to stay still and concentrate on the task, this is not unbelievable.. dominating a mind, even a simple one would take a considerable amount of focus. It has a low duration; you're not going to be able to hold that degree of concentration for a long time.. this is a creature with free will that wants to do something else and is fighting your mind every step of the way. It is as much a matter of mind as of magic... you're not just lulling it into a confused or pacified state like simple mesmerization but forcing it to do things that require it's own mental power yet against the natural wishes of it's will. If the creature is hit, preservation instincts are going to kick in... pain often has a way of forcing your mind to pay close attention to what's happening around you and this is not a voluntary servant.. and the more reasons it can find to build strength against your domination the easier it will be to break free.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> It's not broken or crap just because it doesn't work the way it does in another game or doesn't meet a persons specific expectations on how it should work. It works in line with the idea of how it was designed to work. </DIV>

Azmode

12-17-2004, 08:12 PM

<DIV>Lets not forget the Illusionists castable pet that yes adds to their DPS. I say poop to the speculation that charm is only supposed to be used for crowd control. We know how craptastic AE Mez is, and why give us a charm, just give us another mez spell if it was intended to be CC. </DIV>

Nalaa

12-18-2004, 02:09 AM

<DIV>How ironic that when the game launched all the coercers were talking about how much illusionists sucked since they didnt have charm...</DIV>

Krelfeari

12-18-2004, 01:25 PM

<DIV>Ok....i've cooled off since my last post and i gotta say that u guys are overreacting....imagine getting this to ad1 or even just app3.....30 seconds....thats 30 seconds of making one mob in the encounter attack another mob in the encounter. just don't use it till tank has aggro and the monster u charm won't get hit unless the enemy uses an aoe attack!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This DOES increase ur DPS and the enchanter pet sucks cause it goes stright till it dies at the target, this creature we can actually make do whatever....hell we could take the most powerful monster of a group and not just CC it but lead it awat for 30 seconds stright, then MEZ it when charm wears off.....the group has the rest of the encounter dead by the time they are ready to kill the big guy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sure it might get resisted or not work but think of the other applications....lead it away for 15 seconds, tell it to stay, then run back to group.....then it has to run all the way back essentially taking it out of the fight for a good time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or charm the creature and just have it assist the tank for a little more damage! I think ur forgetting the strength of charm. Imagine taking over the groups mage and forcing it to attack its comrades, its gonna use a spell for sure! it might even debuff them! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what if chanter gets a one shot pet that explodes upon death!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We can take over a creatures mind and command it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Picture an encounter yourself and a tank and a healer. Normally u would just mez an encounter member and tank move in taking heals to kill them while the creatures u mezzed stay that way till he moves to them but not with charm, with charm u can not only take out the groups say, healer or mage but ALSO cause it to harm its team members. this spell has the most damage potential of all the CC moves because it turns the mezzed creature into a source of damage for your side.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think its cool even if i have not got it but go ahead an keep complaining about it if ya like, its not gonna change a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] thing.....hell.....the servers are'nt even up lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>p.s. Lucan for Pres!</DIV>

Farba

12-18-2004, 04:55 PM

Problem is, in most groups i am in, we are killing oj-red con mobs, and from what i read here, you can't charm oj-red cons :/

Ganx

12-18-2004, 05:58 PM

<DIV>A lot of good points, but I have to jump in and say that I believe charm should work the way the majority is thinking. There's a reason why most everyone is saying it should just be a charm, strait out. Because that's what charm is - strait up. </DIV> <DIV>In no way can I see charm being broken if it lasted "30 seconds" even if the mob takes dmg. I understand it's suppose to be a CC type spell, but with the limited CC we get, why... why such a unlreliable spell? Fascinate is done... the AE mez is pretty much worthless... so I think rolls over into the relief of knowing there's a charm spell coming up. Then to find out it's as reliable as Michael Jackson as a nanny?</DIV> <DIV>The other thing, come on this is one of the major things that seperates coercers from illusionists. I was really looking fw to having a pet. How annoying is it to cast breeze every 3 min. Try casting charm every 30 seconds. I could deal with that, if it worked the way it should be expected. As well, it's not like coercers get charm at lvl 20. It's something that you really have to work to attain. I can't see how having charm mechanics the way they are *could* be, being "broken" or overpowered. All other mmo's I've played, charm can last minutes, or hours. It was perfectly balanced then. 30 seconds for a pet? Come on now, that's hardly overpowered and not even easy to maintain. But it would work and help out a lot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It was said already, but the best way I can see to use charm, is on multi pulls. Just charm the lesser and let him have at it with the tank while the rest of the mobs are mez'd. Sure, that would work and that's exactly how I was going to use it. But what's the agro like on charm like when it breaks? The mob it's beating on for X seconds isn't building agro on it, cuz it once the charmed mob is hit, where's it going to go? Ohhhhh that's right... me. Should I stun it and cause more agro? or hope the tank can tuant it off and priest will keep me alive. Or... should I just mez the mob from the get-go and not even ever use charm. Too risky</DIV> <DIV>See what I'm sayin? Will I still use charm? Yeah, probably, but I think there's some issues that need to be worked upon with charm and the AE mez. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by h00drat on <span class=date_text>12-18-2004</span> <span class=time_text>05:02 AM</span>