Coercer and Illusionist?

[Fornax_Lacer]

<DIV>Is one more favorable than the other?  They both sound pretty similar.  Anyone have any advice on which way to go?</DIV>

[Azmode]

<DIV>You probably know, but Coercer is evil only and Illusionist is good.  I do know that the Illusionist gets a castable Pet that you cant control. The pet just attacks the target and goes at it until it is dead.  The Coercer on the other hand can charm.   Illusionists may get more illusions and their clarity is a single target buff, while coercers get full party clarity buffs.  There are other differences also that I cannot think of off the top of my head.  The beta boards had some informative posts on this subject, unfortunately they were wiped.   Cheers</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Az</DIV>

[Fornax_Lacer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azmodeus wrote:<BR> <DIV>You probably know, but Coercer is evil only and Illusionist is good.  I do know that the Illusionist gets a castable Pet that you cant control. The pet just attacks the target and goes at it until it is dead.  The Coercer on the other hand can charm.   Illusionists may get more illusions and their clarity is a single target buff, while coercers get full party clarity buffs.  There are other differences also that I cannot think of off the top of my head.  The beta boards had some informative posts on this subject, unfortunately they were wiped.   Cheers</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Az</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Heh, honestly, I didn't know that.  I never had any part in the BETA, so this is all brand new to me.  Thank for the clarification.<BR>

[Azmode]

<DIV>No problem..glad I could help a little</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Az</DIV>

[kir]

Go coercer!!! It feels good to be bad <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Lara]

<DIV>I was under the impression that the enchanter class was the neurtal one for the mage archtype</DIV>

[LuckyLuci]

<DIV> <DIV>You probably know, but Coercer is evil only and Illusionist is good.  I do know that the Illusionist gets a castable Pet that you cant control. The pet just attacks the target and goes at it until it is dead.  The Coercer on the other hand can charm.   Illusionists may get more illusions and their clarity is a single target buff, while coercers get full party clarity buffs.  There are other differences also that I cannot think of off the top of my head.  The beta boards had some informative posts on this subject, unfortunately they were wiped.   Cheers</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Az</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually... Coercers get Clarity... Hate to break it to ya... Illusionists are just that... ILLUSIONists.</DIV></DIV>

[spinnak]

<DIV>anyone know about what kinds of illusions coercers are going to get compared to illusionists? i like my illusions :smileysad:</DIV>

[Azmode]

<DIV>The last time I checked the spell lists, coercers get evil based illusions.  Again, they could of changed it, but I know at one point they had Ratonga and Troll, and another one I cannot think of off the top of my head.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Az</DIV>

[Jester]

<DIV>Carefull of the information you are getting. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's a post of the latest information, 10/30/2004 beta patch. If you look under EQ2, you can find the latest known spells for all casters. I haven't looked there in a few and perhaps I got the information somewhere else, but I believe both Enchanters get a charm. The Coercer gets it earlier.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.clanwhitestorm.com/" target=_blank><FONT color=#003399>http://www.clanwhitestorm.com/</FONT></A><BR><BR></DIV>

[Dnip]

<DIV>Illusionist is kind of a dumb name. We get a few race illusions, but coercer gets some too. The only thing special is gnoll.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The class that gets the best illusions imho is the Conjurer who get elmental ones, as well as group elemental illusions. Kind of lame we get shafted despite our class name. Oh and the necro get skeleton, ghost, etc.. forms. Again, pretty lame we get shafted with a few stupid race illusions. At the very least we should be able to do evil race illusions too.</DIV>

[spinnak]

<DIV>i agree, illusionists should have all illusions available to other classes, plus some that only they get</DIV>

[spinnak]

<DIV>oh and coercers need more too <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Montol]

<DIV><FONT face=Century color=#3366ff size=2>yeah i thin beeing a dark elf Coercer is just so cool <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>As far as I can say coercer is classical raiding offensive enchanter of EQ1 and illusionist is just CC/buff [Removed for Content] <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Shat in the H]

<blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<DIV>As far as I can say coercer is classical raiding offensive enchanter of EQ1 and illusionist is just CC/buff **ZOMG** <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><hr></blockquote>Played EQ1 long? Enchanters where never offensive my friend, you've got that backwards, Illusionist is a classical defensive CC/buff **ZOMG** of EQ1 while a Coercer is a more offensive type subclass.

[SaeriBr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> [Removed for Content] in the Hat wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>As far as I can say coercer is classical raiding offensive enchanter of EQ1 and illusionist is just CC/buff **ZOMG** <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Played EQ1 long? Enchanters where never offensive my friend, you've got that backwards, Illusionist is a classical defensive CC/buff **ZOMG** of EQ1 while a Coercer is a more offensive type subclass.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Forgive me if im wrong here but isnt that what he said?<BR>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Oh ya I have played EQ1 since 1999 and were a enchanters and the enchanter - last category made possible defeating RD and RZtW with less then 40 ppl. Heh even seen what can do 5-6 hasted, duelwield pets to RZtW? My friend I have also a question for you did you ever had chanter with you grouped in LDON? Did you ever seen good enchanter w/o pet in LDON? - personal favorite mummies on hard in MMC - those beauties were hitting in 700s triple ... you just got LOVE this. And oh ya did you fogot what class soloed Wuosy first? - well it been enchanter. So enchanter it was main DPS sourse for any selfrespecting guild that were doing elementals and above</DIV>

[Phage]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>And oh ya did you fogot what class soloed Wuosy first? - well it been enchanter.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If you mean the dragon in Wakening Lands named Wuoshy. It was a shaman that first soloed him.

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Nope ... enchanter <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>Shaman soloed first soloed none dispelling lvl 52 dragon that roams somewhere near ToV doh fogot his hame... anyway that silly lizard in the end been soloed even by warrior. Wuosy been killed solo by enchanter first second been necro who had score on it - nowdays everyone who bored can do so. Btw druids aslo have score for "first solo dragon kill" - druid been first who solo Trakanon in OS and bard was the first who soloed Gore </DIV>

[Padi]

<DIV>looking at the spell lists I've seen, I'm sorry to break it to you, but coercers don't get group clarity.  They do get a group haste buff which is weaker than the single target illusionists version.  Being that you just attach the haste along with the clarity buff, it would seem you are in the same boat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, illusionists seem to get the better AE damage, which seems to be quite an effect tactic on the large down arrow pulls.  In my book they both seem pretty equal, and for my style, illusionists look to have the better end of it.  Others will disagree, which means balance in my book.</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Yes coercers have group crack at lvl 48 its calls Mind's Eye (requied toughtstone to cast)</DIV>

[Ol'b]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>looking at the spell lists I've seen, I'm sorry to break it to you, but coercers don't get group clarity.  They do get a group haste buff which is weaker than the single target illusionists version.  Being that you just attach the haste along with the clarity buff, it would seem you are in the same boat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, illusionists seem to get the better AE damage, which seems to be quite an effect tactic on the large down arrow pulls.  In my book they both seem pretty equal, and for my style, illusionists look to have the better end of it.  Others will disagree, which means balance in my book. <HR> </DIV> <P> </P> <P>I agree .... It would seem they are very even in the damage dept. but Illusionist has an edge in mezzing/buffing.</P>

[Jaxidi]

<DIV>As a 25 illusionist, I thought I would chime in here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First of all, illusionist damage is only comparable to healer damage, if that.  I had a healer of some sort (think it was some kind of druid, maybe) who was 2 levels lower than me and she was talking about a DoT she was using.  Her DoT did about twice as much DPS than my strongest DoT (gloom) does.  If I stack Gloom and Static Pulse on top of each other, then I get a little closer to her DoT damage.  Other than that, I just have my adept 1 nuke (forget it's name but it's my best DD) that nukes for about 40 damage per shot.  So in the damage compartment, I have a feeling coercers do a LOT more damage than illusionists do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Secondly, our illusions are dumb.  The only time I ever use my illusions are when somebody says, "Oh god, another gnome!"  That's when I turn into a half-elf (and usually drop it again because I like being short and being able to see more screen that's not my body).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the most part, illusionists are buff-b!tches.  We have the same problem you have with Breeze being 3-minute, single-target.  But on top of that, our haste is also 3-minute single-target (sure it's more powerful but comes at a painful-to-the-player price to keep up).  So with a good group xp'ing, we're spending most of our time buffing except when we need to be mezzing.  In between our non-stop buffing, we'll toss out stuns (just daunting gaze mostly, once a minute), weak dots, and stifles.  But mostly, we just buff, mez, stun, and stifle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coercers seem much less painful to play and have more options open to them.  As other threads state here, they can be a reliable source of CC, buffing, or DPS.  Illusionists can only do the CC and Buffing, definitely not significant DPS beyond what our buffs do.</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>The high I level my coercer the more I am comming to realization that coercer best suits for "traditional" dangeon crawl then group fight vs. single very tough targets (massive debuffing abilities with massive DPS) and deal with occasional adds. Illusionist on countary best suit for AE type of groups (which have a lot more place in EQ2 then it was ever in EQ1). Basically as it now...</DIV> <DIV>Enchanted lands - playground of coercers, Zek Orcish Wastes - illusionist play ground</DIV>

[Bravnik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Padien wrote:<BR> <DIV>looking at the spell lists I've seen, I'm sorry to break it to you, but coercers don't get group clarity.  They do get a group haste buff which is weaker than the single target illusionists version.  Being that you just attach the haste along with the clarity buff, it would seem you are in the same boat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, illusionists seem to get the better AE damage, which seems to be quite an effect tactic on the large down arrow pulls.  In my book they both seem pretty equal, and for my style, illusionists look to have the better end of it.  Others will disagree, which means balance in my book.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Sorry but we do get GROUP Crack at 48....reguires a thought stone to cast. Illusionist get AOE but AOE and MEZ don't work together. I will stick with my better DD spells for DPS along with my DoTs. AOE Damage is only used in certain situations at best (large yellow/orange mob pulls).</P> <P>However, the AOE Stuns are nice but that is just not enough to make me choose Illusionist over Coercer. </P>

[Padi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bravnik wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Padien wrote:<BR> <DIV>looking at the spell lists I've seen, I'm sorry to break it to you, but coercers don't get group clarity.  They do get a group haste buff which is weaker than the single target illusionists version.  Being that you just attach the haste along with the clarity buff, it would seem you are in the same boat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, illusionists seem to get the better AE damage, which seems to be quite an effect tactic on the large down arrow pulls.  In my book they both seem pretty equal, and for my style, illusionists look to have the better end of it.  Others will disagree, which means balance in my book.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Sorry but we do get GROUP Crack at 48....reguires a thought stone to cast. Illusionist get AOE but AOE and MEZ don't work together. I will stick with my better DD spells for DPS along with my DoTs. AOE Damage is only used in certain situations at best (large yellow/orange mob pulls).</P> <P>However, the AOE Stuns are nice but that is just not enough to make me choose Illusionist over Coercer. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Exactly how did you get to 33 not knowing how AoE and mez works together?  Haven't you ever been in Runnyeye yet?  Did you know that green icon AE's (almost all casters spells if not all) will not land on a mez'ed mob?  Have you ever been in a group that had another sorcerer or 2 and let them AE 3+ mob group encounters or mez a boss (such as the shift boss in the miner room of runnyeye) and AE the rest?  You'd be amazed at just how much easier it is.  Last time there, we were running side by side with a group that basically had no AE damage, and we did.  We killed about 2-3 times faster.  It was rather sick the difference that style of play is.</P> <P>You are right about the last group breeze, which has been mentioned prior, but keep in mind, that's almost your entire career without it.</P><SPAN class=time_text> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Sorry to sound harsh, but all these enchanters who refuse to utilize AE tactics have given a lot of people the wrong idea about our class and been turning enchanters down in favor of players who will play along.  I personally haven't seen this, but you see a lot of talk on the boards from people who see enchanters as a way to slow down exp due to not using their AE's or alowing others to use them.  AE encounters are everywhere.  Seems almost like every other pull, unless you specifically look to camp an outdoor location with single pulls exclussively.</P></SPAN><p>Message Edited by Padien on <span class=date_text>12-14-2004</span> <span class=time_text>05:35 PM</span>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Padien in RE its work like that ....</DIV> <DIV>Mez boss (single mez) and start circling with melancholy all bodyguards (usually 2-3) then nuke. In good group it take 1 mez refresh before bodyguards dead. Still athouth tecnically its AE fight coercer dont do any AE (well Adept 1 simple minds lol do around 70 per target... compare to despotic minds that hit relaible in mid-upper 300s for less power cost)...</DIV> <DIV>I agree thou that having wizard in group speed up things immerstively</DIV>

[Padi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>Padien in RE its work like that ....</DIV> <DIV>Mez boss (single mez) and start circling with melancholy all bodyguards (usually 2-3) then nuke. In good group it take 1 mez refresh before bodyguards dead. Still athouth tecnically its AE fight coercer dont do any AE (well Adept 1 simple minds lol do around 70 per target... compare to despotic minds that hit relaible in mid-upper 300s for less power cost)...</DIV> <DIV>I agree thou that having wizard in group speed up things immerstively</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Not saying that coercers have good AE's, I'm saying that AE is very common and good tactic and it works with mez too despite what many enchanters think.  It's also known be almost every other class without question and many enchanters fight against it.</P> <P>So telling me that AE is pretty much worthless is kind of being blind to what most people see and use.  Saying that the Coercers is worthless might be true, but when comparing the illusionist and coercer, you can't say that the illusionist AE is pointless because the coercer rarely uses his (because his doesn't hit for 200-250).  AE is used a lot in the game, and not in rare situations.</P><p>Message Edited by Padien on <span class=date_text>12-14-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:16 PM</span>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Padien I agree AE attack is vital part of game that's why so many classes have it..... including coercer (we got our first serious AE at upper 30s - discomforting gaze). All I am telling that using AE for coercer/illusionist is waste of power at least till time we get good one (its actually very important moment that ultimate spell for coercer is .... AE nuke)</DIV>