Question for raiding illusionists

[Groma]

What kind of raid wide dps should an illusionist be doing in t7?  Never played one, but im looking at some raid parses(Halls of Seeing) and the dps from our illusionist seems really low.  Other then giving power regen, our illusionists only job was dps(no crowd control) and the occasional power feed(we had 9 healers, so didnt need it much) so i'm curious what kind of round about dps i should be looking for from an illusionist.  The raid wide 190dps i got was quite a bit less than i expected.  Thanks in advance for any replies.<div></div>

[Xanoth]

a lot more than 190 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />my illusionist alt is probably my most neglected 70 toon, only has about 12 masters or so (the cheap ones), no a whole lot of fabled gear, lacks a lot of good spell proc items (only has earing, pris2, and t6 poc hat from sunchild), has no adornments and only has about 60 AAs.his zone wide DPS in HoS would probably be around 600-800, depending how rusty i was. it should probably be able to go higher, not really sure.but a well equiped illusionist with the right gear and setup should be over 1k i'd have thought

[s]

<DIV>If he's got proper gear and is mastered out and has 98AAs, 1600+ ZW for HoS is easily doable. My best is at 1920 or so without using a pet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other zones (LoA, Labs, DT, CMF, MMIS (though dunno after changes)), 1500+ is easily doable except maybe FTH where I parse 1200-1500 atm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, not sure what type of guild we're talking about, who the player is and what his equipment is at, but I'd say I'd hit 1k barenaked..</DIV>

[Groma]

We play on an exchange server.  There were only 2 active illusionists on the entire server until he bought this one using Station Exchange, and has had it for less than a month.  If any of you have some time, can ya list out some of the more essential spells that he should be casting, or any spells that are not even worth the power consumption? Like 1300 of the 2000 spells cast all night were the same 3 over and over(don't have the log with me, but that just doesn't seem right). Appreciate the help guys. <div></div>

[Pins]

Spam all your damage spells.

[Mihos]

I am not setup for damage by any stretch, but I am still a little over the 1k mark average on most fights.  He should be spamming pretty much every damage and debuff.

[Ardnahoy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> NadKS wrote:<BR>We play on an exchange server.  There were only 2 active illusionists on the entire server until he bought this one using Station Exchange, and has had it for less than a month.  <BR><BR>If any of you have some time, can ya list out some of the more essential spells that he should be casting, or any spells that are not even worth the power consumption? Like 1300 of the 2000 spells cast all night were the same 3 over and over(don't have the log with me, but that just doesn't seem right).<BR><BR>Appreciate the help guys.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The big parses come on multi-mob encounters, but even versus single heroics in pick-up groups, you should be way above 190.</P> <P>If you want to be a DPS hog, pull up your pet and drop your +power +resist buff that uses concentration. Use the free slot to cast proc buff on yourself. Give your pet the same name as yours, that way his damage will count in your parses.</P> <P>While pulling, cast prismatic on the MA, that way, you sneak in 1500-1800 right off the bat to pad your average.</P> <P>Cast your lightning nuke in between every other spell cast. For example, lightning, DoT, lightning, AoE, lightning, prismatic, lightning, DoT, lightning, AoE, ect.... On multiple mob encounters, use every non-mez AoE spell you have (stun, mana sieve AoEs included). If you are lucky, you'll get a proc on the AoE.</P> <P>Finally, realize that we cast small nukes but we cast them quickly and often. We want items that will proc when we cast spells. With enough of these items, we significantly increase our DPS since we are the busy little beavers of the mage classes and are always casting spells. If you go chronomancer in the KoS tree, you will be casting so fast that you'll run out of spells to cast.</P> <P>You mentioned that there are only two active illusionists on the exchange server. I, as an active illusionist on the exchange server, wonder if we have ever grouped? The other night, I grouped with a level 70 illusionist - the first time ever that I have grouped with another illusionist. It was a pretty devastating combo. Next time you log on and see me online, send me a tell if you have any questions.</P>

[Phineus]

<DIV> You aint kidding about busy beavers. I maxxed the chronomancers line and its crazy. I think once your rolling its 93% cast haste. Im getting close to time compression and was told it works on our pet. </DIV>

[BrotherRathgar]

<P>Time Compression does work on your Pet :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P> <P>(Psst, there are more than 3 active Illusionists on The Bazaar server)</P>

[Groma]

Thanks for the tips guys.  We are on the Vox server, and to mind i can think of 3 illusionists that are NOT chinese farmers, and one has yet to hit 70.  I am not an illu, this was one of the guys on my raids.  Come to find out, he bought the toon on SE and did not even have all of his spells(not missing upgrades, missing the spells all together) which was the bulk of his problem.  I got him up to around 800dps in zones like lyceum and FTH, still isnt great, but its a good start and a far cry from sub-200 parses.  Again, appreciate the help. <div></div>

[Fidelity_DK]

<p>I got some questions regarding how to get the DPS that high..</p><p>What AA lines did you go for and did you skip the part of AA that benefit the group memebers..</p><p>I can make arround 1000 when i have the pet out helping me and nukeing like crasy getting power to arround 25% to get volatile Magic.</p><p>I made this with my AAs.. in Volatile Magic line i did 4 4 4 4 1 and in Empathic's Stamina i did 4 5 8 8 to benefit group members special for raids.</p><p>in the Illusionist tree i did Time line to Time comp and enchanting for the illusory arm and rest of the AAs in  penetration line.</p><p>Ofcause i dont have ubber gear so only got basic the stuff that drops arround EoF with nuke benefits.</p><p> Thank for an answer that comes out )</p>

[gchouin]

<p>Hey fidelity your EoF lines look like they are going in the right direction.  Max your prismatic chaos, your dots, synergism, your little blast anything that adds dps.  If you want to dps switch out your sta line and get perpetuity.  Now make sure to use sprint and time mana flow so that at the beginning of every fight u are at 30% and have a power boost inc.  Watch your dots lets them wear off so u get the damage at the end and reapply.  Prismatic chaos whenever it is up and your little blast inbetween spells to keep your perp maxed.</p><p>Proc gear helps there are at least 4 pieces that are easy to get.  Group setup helps.  Get a wizzy in your group, give him TC and make sure u keep him honest giving u frigid gift.  A fury for a little more int.  A troub for a nice spell proc.  Hope this helps!</p><p>When in doubt stick to Cala's advise "Spam all your damage spells" </p><p>Beguile, 70 Illusionist, Antonicas Nameless</p>

[Phineus]

 In labs I was around 300-500 but in LoA I was hitting 800 often during the night, without a pet. My what a level or two will give you. Looks like it wouldnt be a stretch to break 1k with a pet.

[Pins]

<cite>MarquisDesade wrote:</cite><blockquote> In labs I was around 300-500 but in LoA I was hitting 800 often during the night, without a pet. My what a level or two will give you. Looks like it wouldnt be a stretch to break 1k with a pet.</blockquote> You can easily get 1.4k without a pet in labs and lyceum.

[s]

<p>If I try I can parse 2k+ in lyceum and 1700+ in labs, both without using a pet.</p><p>Perpetuality + Volatile Magic + Time Compression line + Illusory Arm line + Troub + Proccing Gear, pretty much. Sometimes a wizard / warlock, sometimes a templar, fury, inq.. differs, but it doesn't make a huge impact on DPS.</p>

[Ardnahoy]

<cite>sro wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If I try I can parse 2k+ in lyceum and 1700+ in labs, both without using a pet.</p><p>Perpetuality + Volatile Magic + Time Compression line + Illusory Arm line + Troub + Proccing Gear, pretty much. Sometimes a wizard / warlock, sometimes a templar, fury, inq.. differs, but it doesn't make a huge impact on DPS.</p></blockquote><p> Does Illusory Arm damage count towards <i>our</i> DPS numbers?</p><p>Also, on multi-mob encounters, I find it pretty easy to get those parse numbers high (thanks to our AoE spells), but as the fights drag on, and only the main guy is left, I find the numbers starting to drop pretty fast.</p><p>I only have 3 proc items, and I always save a concentration slot to place our proc buff on myself, but my parses usually top out at around 800 max on pick up group heroic content, and about 1.2K on raids.</p><p>I think my low parses are due to the fact that I had opted out of the INT line to beef up my WIS line. Since I soloed my way to 70, I needed the extra subjugation from the WIS line. Once reaching 70, and joining a raiding guild, I am now considering dropping the WIS line for the INT line, and bypassing EoF AA's used for Mezzes and putting them into some DPS lines.</p><p>I may experiment with this soon and see if I will miss the added subjugation boost from the WIS line while soloing. Last time I dropped my WIS AA's, I was completely disappointed and ineffective as a soloer but that was before I hit 70 and started getting better gear. Soloing is no longer that important to me, but I do love being 100% on mezzes, and would hate to lose that.</p>

[Phineus]

<p> Illusory arm adds to whomever its on. </p><p> Im thinking raid dps has much more to do with proc gear and who is debuffing mental for you. No proc gear and no debuffs you might max out around 1200 dps on a solo encounter. </p><p> If I can parse 800 without a troub or vim I think I would be well on my way to 1100-1400 with. </p>

[Phineus]

<p> Yep, back to labs and parsed 600-900 all night(without a troub again). No proc gear and int in the 500s. </p><p> Those of you parsing 1400-2000. Can you tell me what the sorcerers, brawlers, predators and rogues are parsing? Give me an idea of what your raids debuffs are melee classes are doing. Also what is your raidwide dps on these mobs? </p>

[nisugy]

<p>I don't know what to make of illusionist DPS figures in isolation. What are the others parsing? Do these figures put you anywhere near the top 3 in the zonewide parse? It would be nice to get an idea. I don't expect to see the huge figures that I see on my wizard.  </p><p>I wanted a support / buff toon for raiding. I want to kick myself for rolling yet another DPS mage!! Please tell me this isn't so! </p>

[Kahna]

<p>Yes, I'm almost always in the top 3 in the parse, and I still have a ways to go to flesh out my gear. I outparse our wizard as often as not, and while she can hit bigger numbers than me on occasion, my dps is far more consistant then hers. </p><p> If you really want to play a raid support/buff class roll a bard, Bards are both rare and loved on raids for the support/buff role that they fill. However, keep in mind that there just isn't a whole lot of support that is needed on raids. Many bards end up feeling like little more than buff bots. </p>

[simpwrx02]

<cite>BrotherRathgar wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>Time Compression does work on your Pet :smileyvery-happy:</p> <p>(Psst, there are more than 3 active Illusionists on The Bazaar server)</p><p></blockquote> </p><p>Be wary of taking time compression off of a wizzy in your group.  Personally if i lost time compression to a pet I would stop casting frigid gift normally does around 6-8% zone wide damage for my illusionist, at master 1 his average proc is 660 and this is on every single spell for 17 seconds.  Remember in a raid the goal is to maximize raid wide dps not your own... I can get the exact same numbers if I dont cast frigid gift, but the illusionist will drop 6,000, by himself and about 12,000 with a pet on single mobs and way more on AoE fights.</p>

[Caetrel]

Trinigo@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><>I wanted a support / buff toon for raiding. I want to kick myself for rolling yet another DPS mage!! Please tell me this isn't so! </blockquote>You are a support/ buff toon AND a dps mage!  Rejoice!

[Jvaloth]

<p>I've finally started to get the hang of DPSing with chanter. Was tearing up FTH last night.</p><p>When I played around and used Master 1 pet w/ synergism AND Time Compression on it,  I was topping parse almost every fight! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>But thats a waste of raid DPS for the sake of my own DPS so I didnt do that long.  Was just testing some things.</p>

[jrm99002]

<p>I parse about 1700-2100 on single encounters - i'm typically 3rd or 4th on parse (usually the wizzies and assassins beat me) and the only thing i have cast on myself is synergism (figure i'm the fastest caster so i get the most use out of it). I went down the AGI and INT lines, getting the last abilities, pouring all spare AAs into AGI for faster casting. Went down time compression line and Illosry Arm line in KoS for added damage and shorter reuse timers. Hope this helps.</p>

[Iseabeil]

<p>Just out of curiosity, how much do a troub add to an illusionists dps in general? We only have one troub and pretty melee heavy, so Im usually sitting with a bunch of melee'rs in my lap, all beggin for double attack like a pack of puppies *grins* and the times when we got troub and illu in same group its usually our other illusionist. I normally parse between 800-1,4k depending on encounter type and debuffs, but as I generally only have my own buffs and fury buffs at times, its hard to know how well Im doin on dps and how well I could do.</p><p>On out of raid groups when I been with troubs Ive seen dramatic increase, but I dun know how it stands raidwise on it.</p>

[Pins]

<cite>Iseabeil wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just out of curiosity, how much do a troub add to an illusionists dps in general? We only have one troub and pretty melee heavy, so Im usually sitting with a bunch of melee'rs in my lap, all beggin for double attack like a pack of puppies *grins* and the times when we got troub and illu in same group its usually our other illusionist. I normally parse between 800-1,4k depending on encounter type and debuffs, but as I generally only have my own buffs and fury buffs at times, its hard to know how well Im doin on dps and how well I could do.</p><p>On out of raid groups when I been with troubs Ive seen dramatic increase, but I dun know how it stands raidwise on it.</p></blockquote>Troubadors add a lot.  Easily 400-500dps to ourselves.  To parse really high, you need a troubador.  Was bored last night and was using my pet, but did not put synergism/tc on him and was able to parse 3k consiently on single-targets with only a troubador and synergism on myself.

[Phineus]

<p> Having read over a few parses it appeared to me that a troub gave 30% more dps just in procs. Add crits, debuffs and int boost and its maybe 40%ish. </p><p> Ive been coming in 5th on the zonewide, coming in behind predators and rogues, without a troub. With the 30-40% increase a troub gives would put me a strong #2 I think. Im starting to break 1k on solos with only a couple pieces of proc gear and no wiz, fury or troub to buff me up(raid leader puts illus dps as very low priority). Feels odd to me. The other clothies really dont seem to know how to dps. Ive suggested they start reading their boards. Did miracles for my warlocks dps to find what others were doing. </p>

[Antryg Mistrose]

<cite>Iseabeil wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just out of curiosity, <b>how much do a troub add to an illusionists dps in general</b>? We only have one troub and pretty melee heavy, so Im usually sitting with a bunch of melee'rs in my lap, all beggin for double attack like a pack of puppies *grins* and the times when we got troub and illu in same group its usually our other illusionist. I normally parse between 800-1,4k depending on encounter type and debuffs, but as I generally only have my own buffs and fury buffs at times, its hard to know how well Im doin on dps and how well I could do.</p><p>On out of raid groups when I been with troubs Ive seen dramatic increase, but I dun know how it stands raidwise on it.</p></blockquote> Even ungrouped a Troubador adds DPS - Included in all their debuffs is 3.2k specifically to Mental.  Grouped, and you get the advantage of a 40% deaggro (which you will often need), a normal Synergism equivalent and a temporary 100% proc rate one, 7.5% spelll crits, 7.2% reduction in casting times, occasionally if you are good a 40% reduction in recast timers, and an extra FT58  to keep volatile magic maxed.  (assuming they have chosen the normal AA lines and are running the usual buffs). Given all these benefits accruing to the illusionist, you'd think the illusionist would cast synergism on the troub, but noooo, all I get cast on me when I raid is murderous design !

[khufure]

Antryg Mistrose wrote: <blockquote>Even ungrouped a Troubador adds DPS - Included in all their debuffs is 3.2k specifically to Mental.  Grouped, and you get the advantage of a 40% deaggro (which you will often need), a normal Synergism equivalent and a temporary 100% proc rate one, 7.5% spelll crits, 7.2% reduction in casting times, occasionally if you are good a 40% reduction in recast timers, and an extra FT58  to keep volatile magic maxed.  (assuming they have chosen the normal AA lines and are running the usual buffs). Given all these benefits accruing to the illusionist, you'd think the illusionist would cast synergism on the troub, but noooo, all I get cast on me when I raid is murderous design ! </blockquote> Lol.  You don't get apply poison to go with it? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[hardkortexan666]

I have to say I'm extremely pleased with the changes that's taken place with our class....back in the days of DoF I used to carry every hex doll made to swap out and debuff the mobs because our dps stunk, and keeping up group members mana wasn't a problem and got a little boring. Now with the new AP abilities it's made raiding much more enjoyable...Here's my parse from a couple o' months ago with only 60+ AA's on the first named mob in FTH. Wart - 291956 | 813 | cr 45 I have a screenshot but not sure how to link since it's not uploaded anywhere...Anyhow now that I've gotten 95 AA's I can't touch a warlok or wizzy who's gotten Time Compression on em, however it's nice to know we can do some nice dps and add great utility to our group for now /dance. I prefer to raid only with troubs also, their hate reduction is awesome and they add more dps to our group significantly.... ~Wart

[lik]

<div align="justify">Watching an Illusionist doing DPS is like watching a short person play basketball, Kinda funny and cool too see at first. But we all know its shortlived and should not be allowed. If the raid was looking for a true dps class,they would not have considered you at all. And if you are a player like my self, and knows the true function of the classses available in this game. You would sit back and laugh at  the idea.</div>

[Methriln]

<p>Liken...ty for your post "person who knows true fuction of classes". I needed a good laugh. If you really did know class fuctions like you claim you'd know your a [Removed for Content] for posting what you did.</p><p>Edit- Spelling errors</p>

[Caetrel]

<cite>liken wrote:</cite><blockquote><div align="justify">Watching an Illusionist doing DPS is like watching a short person play basketball, Kinda funny and cool too see at first. But we all know its shortlived and should not be allowed. If the raid was looking for a true dps class,they would not have considered you at all. And if you are a player like my self, and knows the true function of the classses available in this game. You would sit back and laugh at  the idea.</div></blockquote>Sounds like you got whooped in some One On One by a midget.

[Phineus]

 Coming in 3rd zonewide in labs now and 4th in LoA. I been playing around with using my pet on the zones that are on farm status. Im very impressed with the class so far. Although I cant get a troub to save my life.

[nisugy]

Phineus@Venekor wrote: <blockquote> Coming in 3rd zonewide in labs now and 4th in LoA. I been playing around with using my pet on the zones that are on farm status. Im very impressed with the class so far. Although I cant get a troub to save my life. </blockquote>Wow! Very nice! Something to look forward to when I get to 70. I'm not so stressed out about being buff / support / dps mage anymore!

[Controlor]

<img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> you peeps are giving us illys a good name on dps..... stop that. I like my role as buffing up and doing little dps it gives me time to play Solitaire. Not to mention most of that high dps i see your getting is with caster / scout group. Doesnt really translate compleatly to us who thrown in MT or MA group (lacking dirge and coercer). Where i have to focus on the pr of the tanks so drops my dps to bout 600.

[Tanan]

Phineus@Venekor wrote: <blockquote> Coming in 3rd zonewide in labs now and 4th in LoA. I been playing around with using my pet on the zones that are on farm status. Im very impressed with the class so far. Although I cant get a troub to save my life. </blockquote><p>Yeah using your pet in labs the other night did make a noticable difference, beat me all the way through the zone.  I like to use synergism and haste when I can.  It helps keep some people quiet when they don't get Time Compression.  I wish we could cast Time Compression on ourselves and put everyone to shame. /drool</p>

[Flipmode]

It always bugs me when Illusionists use their pets during a raid.  Keep in mind, the overall DPS your pet does vs the 3 conc slots you could have used to buff others is a waste.  You can still parse high without the pet.  Buff your raid and make other better.  Your raids will do more overall DPS.

[Pins]

<cite>Flipmode wrote:</cite><blockquote>It always bugs me when Illusionists use their pets during a raid.  Keep in mind, the overall DPS your pet does vs the 3 conc slots you could have used to buff others is a waste.  You can still parse high without the pet.  Buff your raid and make other better.  Your raids will do more overall DPS.</blockquote>Meh, depends on your group.  If you have a Wizard and Troubador in your group, 3 Synergisms provides less overall DPS than a M1 Pet.

[Tobby]

Playing the Raid Illusionist is a fine line of balance   If you want to see your name up on the dps parse then the Illusionist is really the wrong class for you IF you are doing your job.   On raid, in group of scouts and such you can bring 4-5,000 dps gain of the entire raid via buffs and debuffs on the mobs. You can stop 1/10 the damage inc from mobs onto the tanks. You can help with agro control and save those that pulled agro helping keep their dps up as well as a possible wipe of a raid.   If your wanting to be a low class wizard then that's one thing, but if you are wanting to build the overall raid dps higher not just your personal 1000 dps points then you need to focus on what the class really can do and learn to do it well.   Using the right set of AA lines you are either an effective support char helping the overall raiding team or you set out for personal glory + a mana battery. Oh yea that personal glory will parse less than an auto attack afk monk. On yard trash, if you are supporting those in your group to push the true Dps classes, you can run 600-800 without proc gear as they get in the way should you need to do crowd control.   This game is not all about dps. Some classes that is their job but not all classes are. Same with healers letting heals slide so they can make the personal dps parses it is of no value to anyone.

[Antryg Mistrose]

When I rolled an illusionist, I saw Mage and assumed DPS was a part of that.  Utility - bah, every class has utility  (well except sorcerers and predators). Buffing 24 people with breeze is not fun. Having mage level dps (that you have to really work for) is fun. I disagree with practically everything Tobby wrote: " If you want to see your name up on the dps parse then the Illusionist is really the wrong class for you IF you are doing your job."  My job?  since when did YOU get to define it?  Mezzing if thats what you think an illusionist's job is, is required in Nizera, and is useful in a couple of raids.  Apart from 4 keys for power management, what else apart from DPS is there to do? "right set of AA lines"  sheesh, how arrogant can you be?  There are several ways you can get Mezz resists down, no need to [Removed for Content] yourself for anything else (personally I have illusionary arm and are working on time compression with just enough spent in penetration to make sure Mezz's land). "yard trash.....without proc gear"  /boggle  a) You don't need to mezz hard trash b) proc gear does NOT interfere with mezzing (unless you accidently kill the mob in Blackscale Sepulchre perhaps) " This game is not all about dps."  No, there is debuffing/healing/MTing.  Personally I prefer not to MT raids as an illusionist, and my heals aren't so hot either. "Same with healers letting heals slide so they can make the personal dps parses it is of no value to anyone"  If you aren't in the MT group, your raid is decently geared, and you are jousting, most raids don't need much healing at all, and the 1400+ dps that some priests manage is of value. I'm a mage.  Mezzing is NOT required, [Removed for Content] right I'm going to DPS.  Deal with it.   (my troubador on the other hand .....)

[Mongowth]

Antryg Mistrose wrote: <blockquote> I disagree with practically everything Tobby wrote:                             </blockquote>I love you! I was reading that with horror... If you want to see your name up on the dps parse then the Illusionist is really the wrong class for you IF you are doing your job.<span style="color: #ff0000"> Bolox tbh! Illu's have been relatively crap and now seemingly have some form of use other than an afk buffbot and man has that taken it's sweet time. I remember Breeze and how I cried when it approached any raid! </span> On raid, in group of scouts and such you can bring 4-5,000 dps gain of the entire raid via buffs and debuffs on the mobs. You can stop 1/10 the damage inc from mobs onto the tanks. You can help with agro control and save those that pulled agro helping keep their dps up as well as a possible wipe of a raid. <span style="color: #ff0000">They should be waiting for the dps call and learn to control their agro imho... Illu's are crappy at dehate for personal use which is very sad and the only dehate we get is some form of suicide squad tactics by "lets see if we can teleport into a mob around us and probably not dehate the mob we originally intended anyways..." lol </span> If your wanting to be a low class wizard then that's one thing, but if you are wanting to build the overall raid dps higher not just your personal 1000 dps points then you need to focus on what the class really can do and learn to do it well. <span style="color: #ff0000">I focus on what class type I am and with chronomancering skills allowing me to do pretty much everything (apart from what I don't have from other AA trees of course) that I would do normally, only faster. </span> Using the right set of AA lines you are either an effective support char helping the overall raiding team or you set out for personal glory + a mana battery. Oh yea that personal glory will parse less than an auto attack afk monk. <span style="color: #ff0000">The beauty of AAs is that they're customisable, not dictated although there are obvious ones which stand out. No ones telling anyone how to set these up but there are preffered ways for preffered results. I'd love to see an AFK Monk step up against me in a raid parse! </span> On yard trash, if you are supporting those in your group to push the true Dps classes, you can run 600-800 without proc gear as they get in the way should you need to do crowd control. <span style="color: #ff0000">You can still push dps in your group which would have no bearing on myself... minus 1 conc slot for my Synergism but that still leaves a non-conc slot requirement for illusory arm and time compression, plus an additional 2 slots free for Rapidity/synergism on another. Stuns and Stifles again can be snuck in within about a seconds worth of cast time (with chronomancer abilities) and continue with your personal dps venture virtually unaffected. </span> This game is not all about dps. Some classes that is their job but not all classes are. Same with healers letting heals slide so they can make the personal dps parses it is of no value to anyone. <span style="color: #ff0000">It's a matter of finding balance and by the sounds of it, something you've not found within your class for dps/mana regen. A fury I know has this insane ability to heal and get [Removed for Content] good dps too... they've found a balance of their class, simple as that! more DPS equals, less time killing that one mob and moving on swiftly. Don't bag everyone else though, I'm just as guilty but each to their own and if you wanna play support I'm sure that's helpful but too boring and I get no satisfaction of gameplay outta that... playing the way I do in the guild that I'm in has yet to prove an issue and we're VERY successful! Agree with above too.... Mezzing is next to useless other than specified places... It sux but then you make the most and best of what you're dealt at the time </span><img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Mongowth]

and coloured writing doesn't come out as coloured writing <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[auk]

CC in raids is a crutch. It has its use in some (very few) situations, but more often than not, it is used to make up for a lack of something else in the raid... like healing, dps or debuffs. Continuing to use CC in raids only teaches the raid to continue relying on the crutch. The best thing an enchanter can do for his guild or raid force is to teach them to not rely on CC at all... because eventually those epic + 3-4 heroic encounters become 3-4 all epic, and CC is useless.

[gchouin]

<p>Tobby not sure where u are coming at.  Guessing you are not an illusionist though.</p><p>-Just doing Stun/stifle/dazes along with mana battery'ing and phasing would be equivilent to an assassin just auto attacking the whole raid.  They are done easily and quickly and leave alot of time left over.</p><p>-Personal glory parsing less then a autoattacking afk monk?  Either you have never seen a skilled illusionist in action or ED has some monks that can autoattack for sick numbers.  With the raid appropriately buffed with syns, TC, IA, hastes and group buffs an illusionist can easily do over 2k personal dps on almost any raid encounter.  The Curse of Insanity mobs are a [I cannot control my vocabulary].  </p><p>-This game is not all about dps.  It is about having fun and playing your class in the most effective manner especially on raids.  An illusionist can debuff, buff, CC, mana battery, ect on a raid and dps very highly.  If they are not doing all these things they are slacking.  The utility aspects can easily be done with proc gear on.</p><p>-And when i say dps very highly i mean you are making good T1 dpsers sweat it.  Monks give me a break.</p><p>Beguile, 70 Illusionist of Antonicas Nameless, Unrest</p>

[Eugam]

<cite>Pinski wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flipmode wrote:</cite><blockquote>It always bugs me when Illusionists use their pets during a raid.  Keep in mind, the overall DPS your pet does vs the 3 conc slots you could have used to buff others is a waste.  You can still parse high without the pet.  Buff your raid and make other better.  Your raids will do more overall DPS.</blockquote>Meh, depends on your group.  If you have a Wizard and Troubador in your group, 3 Synergisms provides less overall DPS than a M1 Pet. </blockquote>Amen to that.

[Phineus]

<p> Good point on the synergisms. </p><p> I been coming in 4th and 5th in eof without a pet in a high dps raid. I stun stifle and daze the mobs whenever they are up and can still put out good dps. With epic immunities it seems its better to give them longer cooldowns even if they are up.  Mezzing epics is pretty worthless but I do so in emergency situations. I do like that miracle mez for difficult pulls. Much more useful than any illus mez and any class can get it. </p>

[Ryk]

<cite>Eugam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pinski wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flipmode wrote:</cite><blockquote>It always bugs me when Illusionists use their pets during a raid.  Keep in mind, the overall DPS your pet does vs the 3 conc slots you could have used to buff others is a waste.  You can still parse high without the pet.  Buff your raid and make other better.  Your raids will do more overall DPS.</blockquote>Meh, depends on your group.  If you have a Wizard and Troubador in your group, 3 Synergisms provides less overall DPS than a M1 Pet. </blockquote>Amen to that. </blockquote><p> I am pretty sure your master pet is no better then mine.  </p><p>If your pet can out parse the DPS added by 3 synergisms you need to rethink who you are buffing or tell who you are buffing to stop sucking.</p>

[Beandip]

<cite>Rykal wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eugam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pinski wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flipmode wrote:</cite><blockquote>It always bugs me when Illusionists use their pets during a raid.  Keep in mind, the overall DPS your pet does vs the 3 conc slots you could have used to buff others is a waste.  You can still parse high without the pet.  Buff your raid and make other better.  Your raids will do more overall DPS.</blockquote>Meh, depends on your group.  If you have a Wizard and Troubador in your group, 3 Synergisms provides less overall DPS than a M1 Pet. </blockquote>Amen to that. </blockquote><p> I am pretty sure your master pet is no better then mine.  </p><p>If your pet can out parse the DPS added by 3 synergisms you need to rethink who you are buffing or tell who you are buffing to stop sucking.</p></blockquote>Lol it's not a matter of telling who you are buffing to stop "sucking" or rethinking who you buff, with a troub and wizzy in your grp your pet does more dps then 3 synergisms, synergism is a nice buff but people give it way more credit for doing what it in fact doesn't

[WAPCE]

<cite>Rykal wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eugam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pinski wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flipmode wrote:</cite><blockquote>It always bugs me when Illusionists use their pets during a raid.  Keep in mind, the overall DPS your pet does vs the 3 conc slots you could have used to buff others is a waste.  You can still parse high without the pet.  Buff your raid and make other better.  Your raids will do more overall DPS.</blockquote>Meh, depends on your group.  If you have a Wizard and Troubador in your group, 3 Synergisms provides less overall DPS than a M1 Pet. </blockquote>Amen to that. </blockquote><p> I am pretty sure your master pet is no better then mine.  </p><p>If your pet can out parse the DPS added by 3 synergisms you need to rethink who you are buffing or tell who you are buffing to stop sucking.</p></blockquote>Put up some numbers from Synergism-buffed Sorcerers and Summoners.