Coercer to Illusionist as 3rd toon

[CrazyPaladin2]

<DIV>Up till recently I have 2 boxed a Templar and Assassin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This may seem like an odd pairing but has worked for me.  It has of course gotten easier as I mastered out my spells and improved my raid gear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With some difficulty I can 2 box Den and do Obelisk up to final named.  Without difficulty I can handle Nest and all of SoS.  Any yellow heroic mobs are also not so difficult.  I sometimes run into trouble with large groups of mobs, adds, or mobs that hit like a truck and do it fast (2k+).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of my limitations and the fact that I was getting a little bored, pushed me to pursue a 3rd toon to box.  I primarily thought of a buff-bot class (no offense) that as I got used to playing 3 toons could add alot.  I also wanted a toon that could be of use on raids to fill an empty spot if needed.  I considered troub/dirge/coercer/illusionist and finally just went with a char I had.  A coercer with the intent to betray.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So... here I am at the point where I need to decide.  I primarily need a class that will compliment both of my existing ones.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any info you can give me would be helpful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1st things that come to mind are buffs.</DIV> <DIV>Coercer dps buff...  I get a self dps buff so much prefer the illusionist haste.</DIV> <DIV>Group stat buff... agi/int for coercer int/wis for illusionist.  My assassin loves int more than any stat because its hard to increase.  Agi is nice for tanking also.  I give the edge to coercer in my case but the int/wis can be nice for resists and my templar.</DIV> <DIV>Power/resist group buff... both classes are equal to me</DIV> <DIV>Power regen buff... is this the same for both?</DIV> <DIV>10 min power regen buff (thoughtstone needed)... is there one for illusy?</DIV> <DIV>Invis... Illusy wins by far with a group invis!</DIV> <DIV>Single Target hate increaser...  this can be nice, but not a biggy.  What do illusionists get in its place?</DIV> <DIV>spell shield...  I just throw this on and pay no attention.  seems to be a buff that is like a % chance damage shield against spells?  What do illusy get?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats all I can think of for buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mezz spells.. I plan on using them alot, but for now I barely touch em while lvling the coercer.</DIV> <DIV>Both get single target and encounter mezz?  I hear our guild chanters mention ae mezz.  The icon is green so I assumed it only hit the mobs in the encounter.</DIV> <DIV>True ae damage spell.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coercor gets 1 blue ae damage spell with a stun.  Do Illusionists?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Instead of continuing and breaking down every debuff, damage spell, stun, root, stifle, pet, or anything else i'll stop here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am really interested in illusionist.  The aa's seem to win hands down.  If any of you experienced illusionists (especially ones that betrayed) can give me some info I would really appreciate it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks a ton!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Manyak]

<DIV>to compliment ur other 2 toons, id take an illusionist. double attack + haste on the assassin, and then spell haste on the templar for faster heals.</DIV>

[Damsk]

<P>CrazyPaladin2:</P> <P> </P> <DIV>1st things that come to mind are buffs.</DIV> <DIV>Coercer dps buff...  I get a self dps buff so much prefer the illusionist haste.</DIV> <DIV>Group stat buff... agi/int for coercer int/wis for illusionist.  My assassin loves int more than any stat because its hard to increase.  Agi is nice for tanking also.  I give the edge to coercer in my case but the int/wis can be nice for resists and my templar.</DIV> <DIV>Power/resist group buff... both classes are equal to me</DIV> <DIV>Power regen buff... is this the same for both? <FONT color=#cccc33>If you choose, at 64, The M2 version of Epiphany you get 42 per tick, if you add that no to EoF AA's then you can get 52. I took the M2 version of group mez since it's our weakest mez ability whereas Coercers rock at this spell</FONT>.</DIV> <DIV>10 min power regen buff (thoughtstone needed)... <FONT color=#cccc33>is there one for illusy? No.../sigh i want this badly gives a nice increase in mana regen 14.6 to the group along with your mana regen+EoF. I think there should be spell comperable to this for Illy...........makes me wanna convert /wink.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Invis... Illusy wins by far with a group invis!</DIV> <DIV>Single Target hate increaser...  this can be nice, but not a biggy.  What do illusionists get in its place? <FONT color=#cccc33>We get a hate reducer also, costs concentration but nothing that increases.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>spell shield...  I just throw this on and pay no attention.  seems to be a buff that is like a % chance damage shield against spells?  What do illusy get? <FONT color=#cccc33>Same, not sure how Coercer gets but it has a count limit to it, 3.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Mezz spells.. I plan on using them alot, but for now I barely touch em while lvling the coercer.</DIV> <DIV>Both get single target and encounter mezz?  I hear our guild chanters mention ae mezz.  The icon is green so I assumed it only hit the mobs in the encounter.</DIV> <DIV>True ae damage spell.  <FONT color=#cccc66>Yes, we get 2 Direct Mezzes and 1 group..we also get an emergency mez that barely works, mezzes for 6 secs i think, nice if your running. Not sure how your mezzes work either but our 2 Direct mezzes are un-interuptable. We can cast em on the "fly".</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coercor gets 1 blue ae damage spell with a stun.  Do Illusionists? <FONT color=#cccc66>We get 2, 1 does a interupt at the end of the Over time damage and the other does stun in the same manor. We also get a group stun.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc66></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc66>Hope this helps <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV></DIV>

[Manyak]

<DIV>just correcting the errors in the last post</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Damsk wrote:<BR> <P>CrazyPaladin2:</P> <DIV>Group stat buff... agi/int for coercer int/wis for illusionist.  My assassin loves int more than any stat because its hard to increase.  Agi is nice for tanking also.  I give the edge to coercer in my case but the int/wis can be nice for resists and my templar.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>you forget that illusionists have another temporary group int buff that buffs for like 160 more int 1/2 the time...coercers can't match that INT buff. And that buff also increases casting skills, which makes the templar heals cost less mana.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Damsk wrote:<BR> <P>CrazyPaladin2:</P> <P> </P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Single Target hate increaser...  this can be nice, but not a biggy.  What do illusionists get in its place? <FONT color=#cccc33>We get a hate reducer also, costs concentration but nothing that increases.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>spell shield...  I just throw this on and pay no attention.  seems to be a buff that is like a % chance damage shield against spells?  What do illusy get? <FONT color=#cccc33>Same, not sure how Coercer gets but it has a count limit to it, 3.</FONT><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>ok first of all we DONT have a hate reducer, we have a deaggro+dd spell proc - big difference. coercers have a hate reducer that works the way u say it.</DIV> <DIV>second, spell shield is a complete waste......i mean imagine coercers saying that they are better cuz they have mindbend.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Damsk wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Mezz spells.. I plan on using them alot, but for now I barely touch em while lvling the coercer.</DIV> <DIV>Both get single target and encounter mezz?  I hear our guild chanters mention ae mezz.  The icon is green so I assumed it only hit the mobs in the encounter.</DIV> <DIV>True ae damage spell.  <FONT color=#cccc66>Yes, we get 2 Direct Mezzes and 1 group..we also get an emergency mez that barely works, mezzes for 6 secs i think, nice if your running. Not sure how your mezzes work either but our 2 Direct mezzes are un-interuptable. We can cast em on the "fly".</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coercor gets 1 blue ae damage spell with a stun.  Do Illusionists? <FONT color=#cccc66>We get 2, 1 does a interupt at the end of the Over time damage and the other does stun in the same manor. We also get a group stun.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc66></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc66>Hope this helps <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>1 - "True ae" = blue AE, not the green "encounter AE".</DIV> <DIV>2 - Just so u know, the coercer mezz can be cast while stunned/stifled. Figured id just add that in.</DIV> <DIV>3 - We DONT get any blue AEs except that emergency 6 sec mezz on a 5 min recast.</DIV><p>Message Edited by DaMutation on <span class=date_text>01-16-2007</span> <span class=time_text>08:44 AM</span>

[CrazyPaladin2]

<DIV>:smileyhappy:Thanks for the info.  It helped a bit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The aa's you peeps get are amazing so that was almost enough to put me over the top.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm gonna run thru betrayal and probably stick it out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I been saving aa's for EoF line.  I think illusionary arm or something.  The 25% double attack.  That one is amazing.  I also want the spell one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any suggestions on what to spend 20aa on to get those?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am also curious on what you think for enchanter KoS aa's.  Before I checked out illusy aa's I already had 37 so I went 4/4/4/8 agi and 4/4/8 sta.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So when I betray what masters are a must have?  Are the ancient spells for illusy good?  How bout bloodline spell?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seems enchanters are really amazing in certain zones.  I have really learned to appreciate them when going thru Nizara.  The crab also is so much easier.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So onto mez... generally not needed that much when raiding.  Still... when 3 boxing I think mezzing will add alot.  So will stuns/stifles and such.  I don't have that much faith in mana drains.  I'm not that experienced with my coercer but they seem worthless.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Due to the great buffs that require concentration I never charm with coercer and probably won't use personae.  It's a huge shame.  Those are supposed to be class defining spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So i'm curious what some of you do when grouping.  Especially on named or combats that last a little longer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Start with debuffs, throw out some stuns/stifles on encounters or mob, add dots, recast?  I have played my assassin and templar so long I could tell you exactly what I do based on short or long combat.  So what do you do?  Are there spells that you don't even have on your hotbar cause they are worthless?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the info.  I look forward to learning a new class and seeing what I can do!  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit Added:</DIV> <DIV>So I have been seeing alot more mezz resists since EoF.  I assume it is the orange and yellow that are much tougher.  Does going with hardcore +subjugation help alot? </DIV><p>Message Edited by CrazyPaladin2 on <span class=date_text>01-16-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:01 PM</span>

[Manyak]

<DIV>Well heres the thing. If u want ur toon to be a buff bot and just wanna throw out an occasional mezz or stun here and there, go STA 4/4/8/8 and WIS 4/4/8/8. If u wanna go down the AGI line ur spell casting will be so fast that u wont be able to keep up with it AND ur other 2 toons at all. And as far as the EoF AAs, take everything in those 2 lines except Breeze and Abolish Hope (the dot+mental debuff, i dunno which version u have atm), and put only 1 pt in cure arcane. U should have enough left over to play around with afterwards that u can prolly put some in ur mezzes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second, the pets are not class defining skills at all. For both classes they are only there for soloing really, and maybe in groups if u can get a rediculously good one. They aren't class defining at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The bloodlines spell is the same as the coercer's, mana cloak. And yes, u should get it if u dont have it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if ur thinking of only upgrading important spells to masters....id say ur buffs and nukes are the most important.</DIV>

[Terron]

<font color="#ffff00">Note my illusionist is on</font><font color="#ffff00">ly level 48.</font> <blockquote><hr>CrazyPaladin2 wrote:<div></div><div>So onto mez... generally not needed that much when raiding.  Still... when 3 boxing I think mezzing will add alot.  So will stuns/stifles and such.  I don't have that much faith in mana drains.  I'm not that experienced with my coercer but they seem worthless. <font color="#ffff00">Our personnae cast mana drains. Combine them with some of our own and it isn't too dificult to rapidly drain some mobs of all mana when soloing. Until level 48 the only one was also my single target stun. I haven't too much experience with the new one that drains mana and gives some to group members. </font> </div> <div> </div> <div>Due to the great buffs that require concentration I never charm with coercer and probably won't use personae.  It's a huge shame.  Those are supposed to be class defining spells. <font color="#ffff00">Our personnae is SOE's way of allowing us to solo, not a class defining skill really.</font> </div> <div> </div> <div>So i'm curious what some of you do when grouping.  Especially on named or combats that last a little longer. </div> <div> </div> <div>Start with debuffs, throw out some stuns/stifles on encounters or mob, add dots, recast?  I have played my assassin and templar so long I could tell you exactly what I do based on short or long combat.  So what do you do?  Are there spells that you don't even have on your hotbar cause they are worthless? <font color="#ffff00">Our spells are generally quick to cast and quick to refresh. There are useful spells I frequently don't get a chance to use as I am too busy cast more useful ones.</font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">The first one I use is generally the temporary buff that procs for extra damage on the next 3 hits.</font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">I might use the construct limited pet next on tough looking mobs, but with full groups most mobs go down too fast for it to be worthwhile.</font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">I'll also generally only use the debuffs on tougher mobs, since being single target they are a wasted on most mobs when grouping.</font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">If the tank is suffering I'll use a stun to give the healers a break.</font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">I'll keep an eye out for adds that need mezzing.</font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">Otherwise I'll use my nukes and encounter DoT.</font> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote><div></div>