DPS tips?

[Turb]

Hi,I have a L45 illusionist that I started playing again recently, and have taken him from 35ish to 45 in a couple of weeks. I'm enjoying it a lot, and the crowd control has been very use in Runnyeye, Cazuc Thule and now Permafrost. I'm very happy with my crowd control play, as are groups I'm with, once we agree what the rules of engagement are <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />However, in some cases we're piling through mobs that don't need CC applied. And then I'd like to work at maxing my DPS. Currently when grouped I parse poorly (using ACT), around 100dps or so tops. When grouped I'm also using my haste and spell proc/hate redux on other group players or their pets, but that's DPS for someone else <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />One problem is my DPS spells are mainly Adept I, while I've got Adept III or Master I CC spells. So I can see one path for me there. At the same time, I want to save some cash for the important Masters for L57-70.What I'd like advice on is how to maximise the use of the spells I have.Against tougher targets I'm using my three damage reduction spells - stun, stifle and daze - on the target early. I lead with my debuff, stun, slap my two DOT spells on, then daze/stifle, slipping in the fast recycle DD spell as and when. I'm maybe not getting the prismatic proc buff in as much as I could. As the mob goes down I sneak in a group power regen, then after combat is over I use the 10% mana buff on the MT (who's usually got lowest power). I rarely seem to find time to get contruct of logic? out.Is that a sane strategy, or am I missing tricks? I always assume haste and spell procs on team members is better than me using my pet, in a group setting.I don't yet have any AA's invested; I only have 8 or 9 since I missed gaining AA's from L20-35ish. I'd like to spend AA's to help my CC primarily, and boost DPS as a secondary effect (at least till raiding levels). My INT is OK, but not yet really near the cap.Any advice welcome!Thanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Turb0T on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:12 PM</span>

[Zebsen]

<P>If you're looking for DPS:</P> <P>Use the spell proc buff on yourself.  Also, stuns and stifles are great, but if you have adequate healing, you don't need them.  Just keep pouring on the DPS instead.  If you have problems with spells refreshing (nothing up to cast) start alternating your quick cast/recast nuke between spells.  So, prismatic chaos (melee proc), shim beam, wither hope DoT, shim beam, brainburst, shim beam, etc.  That's more for longer fights.  Throw in stuns/stifles as needed per the tank's health (below 50%).  If he's in the green constantly, just keep nuking.  Stuns and stiffles just slow down DPS if you don't need them.  Know what your group can handle and adjust accordingly.  Your DPS will suffer if you have to assist the healers with damage mitigation (stun stifle daze).</P> <P>As long as your targets aren't impossible, lead with construct and maybe a DoT (wither hope line that debuffs resists) before your first long cast stun.  These do damage while you stun and do other stuff.  If your tank is really in trouble by this point, use the quick cast AoE stun, then follow it with the longer cast/duration stun.  In 5 levels you'll be able to do very nice damage while stifling (color shower), especially on groups.  If you can get DoTs going while doing your standard nuking, you'll get your DPS up quickly.  I think that construct > brainburst DoT > wither hope DoT for damage.  Wither hope debuffs though, so if your target is a high yellow con, it might be best to land that one first if you're likely to get resisted.</P> <P>Obviously spell upgrades are key, especially to the damage spells you use the most.  Getting your int up close to the cap is another good idea, as this boosts all spells across the board. </P> <P>Except against large groups, your best DPS spell is probably your melee proc.  I would try to cast this every time it refreshes.  </P> <P>There are some other people that parse more than me here, and they may tell you differently, but those are my thoughts.</P> <P>Zebsen</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Mihos]

<P>Lots and lots of proc items and quick casting spells.</P> <P>I do more damage with procs than I do with damage spells.  I am usually top ten on raids.</P> <P>I didn't do any damage AAs, wisdom and sta for me since I raid lots.</P> <P>Mihos</P> <P>add:  not to mention you can kill some stuff with nothing but mez.</P><p>Message Edited by Mihos on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:00 AM</span>

[Banditman]

Dynamism on yourself for sure.  This is very important.Against groups of mobs:Use everything you have.  Start with your 9 second AE.  Follow with your AE stun.  When you get to 50 you'll have Color Shower.  Use your AE Power drain (also gives your group power back).  Keep refreshing your 9 second AE.Keep in mind that every AE deemed "hostile" has a chance to proc for you.  Because of this, when fighting groups of mobs, cast every AE type spell you have, regardless of whether it actually does damage or not.  This can include your AE Mez.  I like to make sure I have one of my AE DoT's running before I use my AE Mez (unless I actually WANT the mobs to stay mezed).Against single targets:I always lead with the DoT that debuffs.  It makes everything else do more damage and land more easily.  Don't be scared to use your AE DoT on single targets.Keep your eye on Word of Force!  What a great spell this is.  It is one of the few spells that grows as you level up.  For a few levels before you get a new class nuke, Word of Force is actually superior.  It also works out better in spell chains for timing.  Because it casts slower you actually have less down time waiting for spells to cast.  It sounds counter intuitive, but I saw a very distinct and noticeable difference in my DPS when at L53 I switched to Word of Force over my Ad3 class nuke.Construct is a nice spell, but it needs to go on early and only for long fights.Cast, cast, cast!  If you aren't casting, you aren't proc'ing.<div></div>

[Zebsen]

<P>Since almost all of the spell proc gear that I'm aware of is T7, you won't get much as far as spell proc damage at your level.  Other than that, there are several strategies here that should help in the short term. </P> <P> </P> <P>Zebsen</P> <P> </P>

[Pins]

Cast damage spells, and continue casting them, just don't stop, unless CC is needed.

[Turb]

Thanks guys.After using the spell proc buff on me, and using the prismatic proc on me or the MT (which I have now taken M2 of) when up, and investing in a handful of Ad3 damage spells, I've gone from 100 dps typically to well over 200, and in the Clefts last night against orange con mobs usually topping the dps in a group with a wizard and necro in. Against groups, with 300 dps+. The wiz and necro are probably slacking, but it's nice to know now I'm contributing when my stun/mes/stifle isn't needed. I'm still keeping CC my main focus, but want to maximise damage when CC isn't needed.Now all I need to do is commit my AA points <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Turb0T on <span class=date_text>08-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:04 AM</span>

[Melmoth1820]

<DIV>Agility line ftw.  Put as many points as you can into chronosiphoning (2nd rung) till it hits 8.  Nothing gives you as much bang for only a few aa points as that ability.  When you get 25 points you can respec and go down to the last ability in the line.</DIV>

[kavic44]

<DIV>1) Push your int up to cap, and make use of Transient line just before the pull.  Careful with the timing because a dead chanter can't do dps =)</DIV> <DIV>2) Spells to Adept3/M1 is a huge boost, but I understand saving for the higher up ones.</DIV> <DIV>3) As you get higher level, group with a Troub and Wiz.  Ice Lash and Note procs are your best friend.</DIV> <DIV>4) Raid with a Brigand.</DIV> <DIV>5) Cast, Cast, Cast...when yer finger shrivels up and goes limp.....cast again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Basically, raising int+spell level and casting a ton with proc gear equipped will get you good dps.  Great dps requires assistance from several other classes in the right group formation, or spending all of your time toggling the sprint button.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Myrh</DIV><p>Message Edited by kavic44 on <span class=date_text>09-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:54 AM</span>

[Vol]

<P>     For the short fights while grouped, against heroic mobs, I try to get all my DOTs on the mob first while throwing in Shimmering Beam every time it is up until all my DOTs have been casted. Then I'll throw in Prismatic Chaos on the MT so the DOTs and Prismatic Chaos are going off at the same time while I hit the mob with a Shimmering Beam, Tumor, Shimmering Beam combo. For most heroic mobs, they are dead by this time. If not, one of the AE DOTs is expired and ready to be recasted and I can hit the mob with Shimmering Beam again afterwards. If, the mob is not down, I'll use the power drain spells, since they should also set off my damage proc'ing gear. </P> <P>     For longer fights, the concept is the same, but I try to cast as many hostile spells as I can so damage proc gear has a its chance to go off. Mixing in the other spells in our arsenal as needed, ie: power regen, mezzes, stun, etc. Casting order is just one small part of the DPS. Damage proc gear being another part of your DPS. If you can afford it, self buff yourself with Synergism so you also have that spell proc and agro reduction. </P> <P>     Maxed INT helps and Momentary Sentiment can help also.  </P> <P>     As for damage proc gear, I have heard different rumors on what helps it proc more often. One, being drunk (with maxed alcohol tolerance). Two, higher INT. I don't know if there is anything that really makes your gear proc more often or not.</P> <P>      AA lines: I too put most of my points in the Chronomancer's line  with 8 points in to minimize my recast times and 8 spent on the last one for Perpetuality (theory being the more often I cast, the more chances my gear and spell proc buff have to trigger). I also put just enough points over in the line for spell crit chances to be maxed. The remaining extra points spent on reducing my casting times.</P> <P>     As it is now, since I don't have all the damage proc gear I want yet,  I average 500 to 750 DPS with my highest score being at just over 900 DPS on raid mobs. Depends how often I have to cast my utility spells (non-DPS) spells.</P> <P>     Another raid illusionist says she averages 900 DPS by putting the 8 points I spent on Perpetuality instead on the the last one in the spell crit line where her spells do extra damage when her power is under 30%.  I asked how she continually got her power that low so she could average 900 DPS. Simple answer was, she sprints before the fight to get her power down. I assume she has a lot of Flowing Thought and power potions to help off set the increased power drain side effect that results the from faster spells casting due to the points spent on the chronomancer's AA line.</P> <P>     Xantilly 70 Illusionist</P> <P>     Don't know how much this helps you. But, heard more arguement damage proc gear than anything else to help your DPS.</P>

[Tuleri]

<P>What they said....I lead with devour hope, then the 30 second INT/skill buff, then bombs away.</P> <P>And use your pet, give it dynamism.  Also make sure to have your pet attack when new target is given.</P> <P>Unless having to do cc, my concentrations are: dynamism self, dynamism pet, pet x3.</P> <P> </P> <P>Easily reach 700-1000 DPS every fight.</P>

[Sector11]

<div></div><font size="2"></font><font size="2">I'd have to agree.......If I'm put in the caster group during a raid, my Personae seems to be a better choice than using 3 synergism. We tend to be wizard and conjuror-heavy in the Legion of the White Rose, and by my parsing, the pet puts out higher (and more consistent) DPS than the procs from the other casters.Between that, and experimenting with the DPS AA spec (8 points Chronosiphoning + Volatile Magic) posted in another thread here on our class boards, I'm starting to achieve a consistent 800 DPS while still doing stun/stifle and power regen. On some fights, I've been topping 900 as well.I'm rather impressed by this, especially considering that we don't have a Brigand or Defiler to do massive debuffs (the Legion is Qeynos-only). A few more proc items, and I expect to be hitting near to that 1K mark as well.</font><div></div>

[Kuragi]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems like bad design or something that you would do better using personae in preference to 3 Synergisms.   Of course, the Synergism also has hate loss, for more than the damage it does, so that's another benefit to it. Oh, and by the way,  unlike Haste, Synergism is castable on a raid friend, not just a group friend, so you can always cast it on somebody.   <div></div>

[Rayvne2]

<P>I do consistantly much more dps with my pet up then I do by casting dynamism.</P> <P>I'm currently speced down the stamina line for the extra healer crits and hate reduction.</P> <P>How much of a dps boost does the int line give you?</P>

[Sector11]

<div></div><blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">Kuragi wrote:I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems like bad design or something that you would do better using personae in preference to 3 Synergisms.   Of course, the Synergism also has hate loss, for more than the damage it does, so that's another benefit to it.Oh, and by the way,  unlike Haste, Synergism is castable on a raid friend, not just a group friend, so you can always cast it on somebody.<hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote>Ah, but therein lies the whole issue. It wasn't always this way. The normalization of spell procs done in LU23 severely hindered the amount of damage that Synergism provides. Prior to that update, Synergism was always my buff of choice, and I would make sure to put it on whichever group/raid members had the fastest-casting spells and combat arts. I did so in order to maximize the DPS from the spell.When they normalized the proc based off of cast time, though, the proc's damage was not increased to scale accordingly. I believe this was an intentional decision on the part of the game developers, since from my understanding, at the time they saw behavior such as I mentioned above to be an unintended and unwanted benefit. Procs, apparently, are just supposed to be additional damage.... nice, but not part of strategic gameplay - and definitely not necessary.Now, the developers have reversed course a little bit on that, adding the deaggro component to Synergism (and thus bringing back some strategy choices), but since the deaggro only fires when the spell procs, I personally haven't found it to be much use. If somebody is going to pull aggro off the tank, the cumulative hate reduction from the procs isn't going to stop that - it will only delay it a little bit... and it doesn't matter at all when a wizard lands a 26,000 point crit on Fusion.<span></span>Procs off of weapon attacks are normalized too, but since haste increases autoattack speed, it increases the number of chances fighters to proc and scouts to proc. Increased base autoattack damage + more chances to proc = better overall damage output than that provided by Synergism.As a final disclaimer, I should reiterate that these conclusions come from my experience while raiding with a Qeynos-only guild, focusing on maximum DPS, and of course is entirely dependent on the makeup of the raid force and its groups. In standard quest/xp group setups, as I mentioned previously, the pet goes away and I use both synergism and haste as needed. In groups, survivability is key, but when raiding, who cares if you sacrifice a sorceror or two? <span><span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></span><div></div>

[Pins]

Synergism is also a lot easier DPS. The pet is a pain to use in zones such as Halls of Seeing, Deathtoll, and Labs(which is 3 out of 4 zones ...), or against Contested mobs.

[Banditman]

And finally, if the spell mechanics work like the melee mechanics, you can use AA's to greatly reduce your casting times, thus giving you a greater chance to proc whatever effects you might have available.<div></div>

[Sector11]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%"><font size="2">Pinski wrote:Synergism is also a lot easier DPS. The pet is a pain to use in zones such as Halls of Seeing, Deathtoll, and Labs(which is 3 out of 4 zones ...), or against Contested mobs.</font><hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote><font size="2">No disagreement there. Good ol' buff-and-forget-it. The pet does have the drawback of being susceptible to AE's, since it runs in and melee attacks, so a lot of time is spent recasting it once it goes down.</font><blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%"><font size="2">Banditman wrote:</font><font size="2">And finally, if the spell mechanics work like the melee mechanics, you can use AA's to greatly reduce your casting times, thus giving you a greater chance to proc whatever effects you might have available.</font><hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote><font size="2">That's true. </font><font size="2">With Chronosiphoning maxed, we get 30% spell haste, which will increase your own chance to proc. However, I can't reliably know if the recipients of Synergism have any type of spell haste at all.</font><font size="2">There's a greater question here though - are we only looking at personal DPS here, or our contribution to the overall DPS of the group/raid?It's one of the "problems", as it were, with our class and DPS parsers. Since such a good chunk of our damage is indirect, parsers attribute it to the other player. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Prismatic Havoc the only spell proc we have that actually counts toward our own damage totals when it's not cast on ourselves?I guess I'm talking about generating the maximum damage possible for the group or raid, whether I get credit for it or not.If I'm looking for just my own numbers, as ACT parses them, I'll spend my concentration on the pet (named after myself), synergism on both myself and the pet, and use Prismatoc Havoc and Chronosiphoning every time they're up. Other than that, I'm making sure all the DoTs are always ticking, and throwing in Shimmering Beam in-between the other spellcasts.</font><font size="2"></font><p>Message Edited by Sector11 on <span class=date_text>09-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:17 AM</span>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Sector11 wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%"><font size="2">Pinski wrote:Synergism is also a lot easier DPS. The pet is a pain to use in zones such as Halls of Seeing, Deathtoll, and Labs(which is 3 out of 4 zones ...), or against Contested mobs.</font><hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote><font size="2">No disagreement there. Good ol' buff-and-forget-it. The pet does have the drawback of being susceptible to AE's, since it runs in and melee attacks, so a lot of time is spent recasting it once it goes down.</font><blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%"><font size="2">Banditman wrote:</font><font size="2">And finally, if the spell mechanics work like the melee mechanics, you can use AA's to greatly reduce your casting times, thus giving you a greater chance to proc whatever effects you might have available.</font><hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote><font size="2">That's true. </font><font size="2">With Chronosiphoning maxed, we get 30% spell haste, which will increase your own chance to proc. However, I can't reliably know if the recipients of Synergism have any type of spell haste at all.</font><font size="2">There's a greater question here though - are we only looking at personal DPS here, or our contribution to the overall DPS of the group/raid?It's one of the "problems", as it were, with our class and DPS parsers. Since such a good chunk of our damage is indirect, parsers attribute it to the other player. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Prismatic Havoc the only spell proc we have that actually counts toward our own damage totals when it's not cast on ourselves?I guess I'm talking about generating the maximum damage possible for the group or raid, whether I get credit for it or not.If I'm looking for just my own numbers, as ACT parses them, I'll spend my concentration on the pet (named after myself), synergism on both myself and the pet, and use Prismatoc Havoc and Chronosiphoning every time they're up. Other than that, I'm making sure all the DoTs are always ticking, and throwing in Shimmering Beam in-between the other spellcasts.</font><font size="2"></font><p>Message Edited by Sector11 on <span class=date_text>09-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:17 AM</span><hr></blockquote>When you could increase the overall raid's DPS more by casting Rapidity and/or your group buffs, instead of your pet.

[Manyak]

<DIV>when aria/maestro/firigd gift are available, the pet does more dps than 3 synergisms, and can be estimated to do more damage than haste when there is little to no DPS buffs for the people being hasted in the group.</DIV>

[Sector11]

<blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%"><font size="2">Pinski wrote:When you could increase the overall raid's DPS more by casting Rapidity and/or your group buffs, instead of your pet.</font><hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote><font size="2">Which is why, if you'll read my previous posts again, I said I use the pet if I'm put in the caster group. </font><font size="2">Otherwise, I spend my concentration on haste and group buffs in pretty much <u>every other</u> group setup.</font><font size="2">When I'm spending concentration points, in order:    Seal of Ascention is always up    Synergism is on myself</font><font size="2">    Aspect of Lucidity is used only if the magic/mental/divine resists are needed - the added power is just a side bonus</font><font size="2">    Haste goes on any fighters/scouts in my group    Synergism goes on any casters in the raid if  < 3 concentration is remaining, otherwise the Personae is used.Could I drop Synergism from myself? Probably. I imagine that I'll have to do so as we head towards Deathtoll (we're not there yet), and replace it with having Aspect up more often.        </font><div></div>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Sector11 wrote:<blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%"><font size="2">Pinski wrote:When you could increase the overall raid's DPS more by casting Rapidity and/or your group buffs, instead of your pet.</font><hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote><font size="2">Which is why, if you'll read my previous posts again, I said I use the pet if I'm put in the caster group. </font><font size="2">Otherwise, I spend my concentration on haste and group buffs in pretty much <u>every other</u> group setup.</font><font size="2">When I'm spending concentration points, in order:    Seal of Ascention is always up    Synergism is on myself</font><font size="2">    Aspect of Lucidity is used only if the magic/mental/divine resists are needed - the added power is just a side bonus</font><font size="2">    Haste goes on any fighters/scouts in my group    Synergism goes on any casters in the raid if  < 3 concentration is remaining, otherwise the Personae is used.Could I drop Synergism from myself? Probably. I imagine that I'll have to do so as we head towards Deathtoll (we're not there yet), and replace it with having Aspect up more often.        </font><div></div><hr></blockquote> Because caster groups are bad, thus there should never be a time you'd have space for a pet.

[Sector11]

<div></div><font size="2">Well, that's raid setup/organization/strategy discussion, so I guess we'll just have to leave that for a more appropriate board than this one.<span> :smileytongue:</span><span></span></font><div></div>