Nerfing everyone else to fix us....

[Althena]

Guess they still don't get it check the dev tracker <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Impetus]

<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=102219" target=_blank>Live Update 24: Control Changes</a>So I guess the rumors were true. Except Lockeye didn't mention putting immunity timers on normal heroic encounters, so I guess they decided against that.

[auk]

I should be somewhat excited but...Maybe I'm just weary.Why do I get the feeling the LU24 patch notes are going to include "some raid encounter spell resistances have been adjusted"? Hold onto that bag of hex dolls....<div></div>

[Belizarius]

<P>LOL yeah, watch for some resist tuning on epics.</P> <P>We'll be able to stun an epic for 10% of the fight, and stifle it for 10%.  This is our role eh.</P> <P>Better than nothing I guess.  I wonder what the 2nd chanter on the raid will do?  Our guild actually has 2 ya know.  Kind of a rarity I guess. </P> <P>Anyway, can we just have the epic changes and bin the rest?  Will a global nerf make me any happier?</P> <P>[Removed for Content] do they really still believe our group CC is overpowered?  I'm dumbfounded.</P><p>Message Edited by Belizarius on <span class=date_text>05-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:16 PM</span>

[Lornick]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Althena wrote:<BR>Guess they still don't get it check the dev tracker <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What is it that they don't get?  What *exactly* do you want?

[Rayvne2]

<P>This sounds to good to be true, especially for PvP. :smileyhappy:</P> <P>Reducing the length of stuns on other classes and separating mezz and stun timers would give us a lot of needed help in solo PvP.</P> <P>In general, most EQ2 single group content is fairly trivial in a full balanced group.  If they were to improve our abilities without nerfing other people's abilities they would make the content even more trivial. </P> <P>Right now, with the state of stun locks, we find (in my normal xp group) that a level 64 Swashbuckler can tank almost as well as a level 62 Berzerker in a xp group.  Maybe they are changing the stun timers and the like in order to balance out the game a bit since it seems that stuns are a bit over the top at later levels.  They are just using Enchanters as a excuse to do it.</P> <P> </P> <P>Dozey</P>

[Manyak]

<DIV>well even without stuns, brigands get a huge self mitigation buff, and swashies get a huge self AGI buff. slap on a shield, and they r g2g to tank virtually anything (they DO have taunts too).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the only thing is that with the stun nerfs, alot of classes are going to have a much harder time soloing. such as brigands and swashys cuz they really need those stuns to get behind a mob and dish out damage</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and my guess is that theres gonna be a couple of "unneeded" nerfs, such as the wizzie mezz (it mezzes the wizzie at the same time too).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but i would personally like for our aoe mezz NOT to prevent aoe, cuz then its gonna give us a tough time remezzing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and how the hell is our CC overpowered anyway, when the number of encounters is still limited to 6? a good group can handle 6 mobs anyway, and any more than that means that we prolly wont mezz in time before that 7th one kills someone.</DIV>

[Methriln]

At least there trying somewhat to fix us and this may be a step in the right direction but nerfing other classes to do it isnt gonna make us more popular and they still fully havent adressed the problem./shrugs

[auk]

I gotta think its kind of funny how people are reacting to the nerfs. I see so many people complain that EQ2 is too easy, etc. So, the devs uncover one of the reasons mobs pose such little challenge: too many classes have too many control effects like stuns. People see only how it effects them (negatively), but if this makes the group game more challenging, without having to pick on a single class (see also: stun immunity), I think its a good thing for the game as a whole.However, while probably not intentional, attaching the nerfs to our enchanter review was not a very nice thing to do. These should have been presented to the community as two separate unrelated changes. If they had justified the stun nerfs as a change to increase the challenge posed in heroic content rather than simply for our sake, it would probably go over a heck of a lot better. Now we get blamed completely. Either Lockeye really hates us and did this on purpose out of contempt, or he simply didn't realize the effect this could have.<div></div>

[Lornick]

Try to give players a little bit of credit.  Anyone who blames chanters for some of their skills being nerfed is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Whether you wanted it or not this was a decision made by the people who make the game.  How can a player hold that against you?  And that comment about nerfing everyone else won't make chanters more popular just isn't true either.  Your stuns, mezzes, silences, etc will now have more of a visible impact on the average group.  Hence your contribution to the groups success will be more noticeable and it will help you get groups.

[Gungo]

<P>I Have a few questions about the new changes which i am all for BTW. So tell me if my facts are true or not.</P> <P>Enchanters will get some fom of reducing epic damaage alternating between stuns ,stifles, and pacify. Eahc with thier own immunites. Furthermore this change can make enchanters GODLY in certain epic fights. A good enchanter who can time stuns/stilfes may be able to prevent some non innate AoE, AE, and DD's in raids. Those enchanters that jsut spam the abilites in raid yes will still be mostly useless. Those that time the stilfes and stuns right before an aoe goes off can stop any non innate AoE.</P> <P>Here is another scenario for you. Tank pulls raid mob, enchanter mezzes raid mob, guild debuffs raid mob, begin fight vs pregimped raid mob. I bet alot of classes can debuff a raid mob a ton in 12 secs. How about an add during a raid, wouldn't it be nice to mezz him 12 secs so the MA can target and taunt him. </P> <P> </P> <P>Now they need to look at the usefulness of power drains.</P> <P>and allow </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>illusinist and coercers to have seperate immunity timers thus allowing more then 1 enchanter to be useful on raids.</SPAN></P>

[Etillchou]

<blockquote><hr>Gungo wrote:<P>I Have a few questions about the new changes which i am all for BTW. So tell me if my facts are true or not.</P><P>Enchanters will get some fom of reducing epic damaage alternating between stuns ,stifles, and pacify. Eahc with thier own immunites. Furthermore this change can make enchanters GODLY in certain epic fights. A good enchanter who can time stuns/stilfes may be able to prevent some non innate AoE, AE, and DD's in raids. Those enchanters that jsut spam the abilites in raid yes will still be mostly useless. Those that time the stilfes and stuns right before an aoe goes off can stop any non innate AoE.</P><P>Here is another scenario for you. Tank pulls raid mob, enchanter mezzes raid mob, guild debuffs raid mob, begin fight vs pregimped raid mob. I bet alot of classes can debuff a raid mob a ton in 12 secs. How about an add during a raid, wouldn't it be nice to mezz him 12 secs so the MA can target and taunt him. </P><P> </P><P>Now they need to look at the usefulness of power drains.</P><P>and allow </P><P><SPAN class=time_text>illusinist and coercers to have seperate immunity timers thus allowing more then 1 enchanter to be useful on raids.</SPAN></P><hr></blockquote>Okay just my opinion and i'm not 200% sure on some things but..about the upcoming changes as are upon us now.. yes. we'll get epic crowdcontrol with reduced timers (1/3 of the normal timer) and the mob used it upon will get an immunity for that type of crowd control for three times the normal duration.So take our 51 second mezz as example. It will last 51/3 = 17 seconds max and after that the mob will be immune to mezz for 153 seconds.A chanter can indeed stun/stifle a little before the AoE. However what happens then I dont know. Either a: the mob tries to cast his aoe nicely but is stunned/stifled so no aoe.b: its a sort of interrupt and the aoe comes straight after the stun/stifle is finished.Maybe someone else knows this better. Didnt test it on epics however if it goes like on heroics I would go for option A. So yes we can be a little god in a raid. (if the stun/stifle lands that is <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)About the mezz epic mob, debuff tactic.. Yes and no..again will the mezz hit and all those debuffs.. All those procs.. 1+1 = broken mezz when not expected.With that.. debuff generate hate.. tank didnt taunt properly yet.. who's to die when mezz is gone...But yes.. it opens a lot of possibilities and above all the class of the chanter becomes like you posted very important. A good chanter can make or break a raid for sure if this goes life. A bad chanter.. shrug still is useless and nothing more then a weird form of mediocre dps

[Pins]

<DIV>We still haven't been told if this is a FULL stun or stifle.  I mean for all we know, most abilities that are innate are probably going to ignore stuns and stifles are keep on casting.  If they are real stuns and stifles, then maybe they'll be nice, but I highly doubt they are.</DIV>

[Jinnchanter]

<DIV>I hope that stun/strife can work on heroic and epic mobs even if they have very short duration. It is because I cant do stun/strife on HOF/vault NM for keeping MT live.</DIV>

[Bhagpuss]

I have just recently started an Illusionist on Test (nothing to do with these changes, pure co-incidence), and I found that I really liked the class . These changes may suit raiders or people who regularly play in large groups. However, as someone who mainly plays in duos or trios I see these changes as almost wholly negative to my Illusionist. As for solo play, they look to be a major Illusionist nerf. Since my Illusionist is on Test, I will be able to assess the damage first hand and I will certainly be giving my feedback there if I feel my Illusionist's viability has been damaged. I will also be reacting to the effect it has on my other characters there, who rely on various stun effects - they are crucial to my Shadowknight, for one. I really think this is an ill-thought-out "fix", but we will see how it pans out in action.

[merkla]

<P>well i doubt stun and stiffle will last for full duration... and actally it would mean too much power....</P> <P>think about to stun an epic mob for 11 sec evry 33 sec... maybe stun at begin (11 sec for all the debuff).. maybe stun him again when tank is low on hp.... 11 sec of stun.... too powerful</P> <P> </P> <P>and actually that would really overpower chanters...</P> <P>stiffle is different but stun for all the duration? cant happen </P>

[Jinnchanter]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> merklarx wrote:<BR> <P>well i doubt stun and stiffle will last for full duration... and actally it would mean too much power....</P> <P>think about to stun an epic mob for 11 sec evry 33 sec... maybe stun at begin (11 sec for all the debuff).. maybe stun him again when tank is low on hp.... 11 sec of stun.... too powerful</P> <P> </P> <P>and actually that would really overpower chanters...</P> <P>stiffle is different but stun for all the duration? cant happen </P><BR> <HR> <BR>SOE only say stun/stife can work on epic boss, but they don't say epic boss can easily get a stun/strife.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Althena]

<div></div>What they don't "Get" is that nerfing others to fix us, to give us a role that still will be laughable in raids, is an easy way out. They are obviously trying to do something for the enchanter classes but severly miss the mark. Let's ignore the whole "what role do we want enchanters to play" question because we(they) still do not know. This change does very little if anything to change our role or to solidify it.Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about Illusionist, I love my class and have fun playing it. Nerfing my other classes in the name of improving (laughably) my main one is not something I look forward to, and I seriously hope they find that in testing, it definitely doesn't sound as useful/fun as it did in words.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Althena on <span class=date_text>05-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:27 AM</span>