Haste or Intensity

[crewguy72]

<div>I'm a new Illusionist and hit 35 tonight. I am wondering what the priority others use on haste and Intensity.</div><div> </div><div>If there are 3 Melee in my grp and 1 is the tank do i also give him haste or should i skip him and give myself or another caster in grp Intensity?</div><div> </div><div>Thanks in advance for any replies. :smileyhappy:</div>

[zit]

<div></div><p>as general rule i would say give intensity before haste.</p><p>intensity to you / your personae above everyone else.</p><p>intensity to other caster / mage pets.</p><p>haste if you got con slots free.</p><p>haste to tank first (for better agro).</p><p> </p><p>this is how i handle most times. there can be variations depending the ppl i group with and what we are going to fight.</p>

[Bawang]

<div></div><p>I find melees are more appreciative of Haste than mages of Dynamism so I tend to haste more.  But if there are enough good recipients for Dynamism I'll get rid of pet and buff it.  Wizzies, Warlocks, Conjurers, and Necros are the best recipients.  Generally, I'll buff a wizard before I buff myself because he can do more with it than I can.</p><p>Short answer: If you decide to keep pet then buff 2 hastes if you have 2 melees and let it go at that.</p>

[crewguy72]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Bawang wrote:<div></div><p>Short answer: If you decide to keep pet then buff 2 hastes if you have 2 melees and let it go at that.</p><hr></blockquote>How is this possible? I have 5 concentration slots, if i use my 2 grp buffs i have 3 slots left so if i take out my pet that leaves me with no room to haste?</div><div>Are you saying not to use my grp buffs?</div><p>Message Edited by crewguy72 on <span class="date_text">04-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:10 AM</span></p>

[TuxDave]

<div>Well, if you have a pet so you have 2 concentration points left, they usually end up with:</div><div> </div><div>If there's a scout around, haste+intensity on the scout (haven't cofirmed it but a Ranger said he can proc the intensity)</div><div>If there's a paladin/shadowknight around, intensity on myself and the paladin/shadowknight</div><div>If there's a berzerker around, intensity on myself and haste on him</div><div> </div><div>Otherwise I mix it up with intensity on myself and the pet or sometimes intensity on myself + INT/WIS buff for resists.  I haven't used the other group buff for a long time.  I think the last time I used it was when there were two illusionists in the same group.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Impetus]

I don't use my group buffs very often.Int/Wis, well I usually have another mage in the group that can buff Int. If I don't have another mage that can do that, an extra haste on a melee would create more dps than the extra Int on just me.Resists/Power Pool. Size of power pool is only important if you would run out of power without it. The resists are mental/magic/divine. Moderately useful if you're fighting a enchanter or cleric mob, but otherwise not so much.Basically in a typical group, I feel like it's more important for me to increase the group's dps in any way I can. Haste on a fighter, or Spell Proc on a mage or shadowknight is more useful, in my opinion.

[Eu]

<div><blockquote><hr>Bawang wrote:<div></div><p> Generally, I'll buff a wizard before I buff myself because he can do more with it than I can.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>No, not true. We, as enchanters, are one of the best recipients of this spell because we cast a lot of short casting-time hostile spells. Dots, short nukes, etc...they all have chances to proc. A wizard can do more dmg, but with only one or 2 casts. So they only have one or two chances through the fight for it to proc where as we cast a lot of hostile spells throughout a fight, giving us a much better chance of having it proc many times. Keep that in mind.</div>

[Belizarius]

<div></div><p>Generally, Intensity will give far better value than haste imho.  In a short fight, most melee types load up with CAs anyway and don't really do much auto-attack damage.</p><p>However, some classes have very few hostile spells (pure melee CAs don't proc Intensity, they are not spells).</p><p>Brigands, Swashies, Rangers, Assassins, Berserkers, Guardians, Monks, Bruisers, I give haste to, as they rarely seem to proc Intensity.  Anyone else, Intensity.</p><p>Crusaders and Bards DO get some hostile spells.</p><p>If I think I will need to mez, I don't like to put Intensity on the tank.  That's so they can taunt without breaking mez.</p><p>I agree with the previous poster, enchanters are a good recipient for Intensity.  Conjuror DPS pets are usually casters (Intensity), tank pets are melee types (haste).</p><p>Soloing I usually drop the resist buff and put Intensity on the personae.</p>

[Bawang]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>crewguy72 wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Bawang wrote:<div></div><p>Short answer: If you decide to keep pet then buff 2 hastes if you have 2 melees and let it go at that.</p><hr></blockquote>How is this possible? I have 5 concentration slots, if i use my 2 grp buffs i have 3 slots left so if i take out my pet that leaves me with no room to haste?</div><div>Are you saying not to use my grp buffs?</div><p>Message Edited by crewguy72 on <span class="date_text">04-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:10 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>The fact of the matter is that, with only 5 conc slots, there just isn't enough rooms for group buffs.  It's my opinion this is a bad design decision on the part of developers.  I find myself buffing individuals in the group to increase damage output and I almost never have conc slots left for group buffs.

[Drus]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Belizarius wrote:<div></div><p>Generally, Intensity will give far better value than haste imho.  In a short fight, most melee types load up with CAs anyway and don't really do much auto-attack damage.</p><p>However, some classes have very few hostile spells (pure melee CAs don't proc Intensity, they are not spells).</p><p>Brigands, Swashies, Rangers, Assassins, Berserkers, Guardians, Monks, Bruisers, I give haste to, as they rarely seem to proc Intensity.  Anyone else, Intensity.</p><p>Crusaders and Bards DO get some hostile spells.</p><p>If I think I will need to mez, I don't like to put Intensity on the tank.  That's so they can taunt without breaking mez.</p><p>I agree with the previous poster, enchanters are a good recipient for Intensity.  Conjuror DPS pets are usually casters (Intensity), tank pets are melee types (haste).</p><p><font color="#ff0033">Soloing I usually drop the resist buff and put Intensity on the personae.</font></p><hr></blockquote><div>I drop both Conc grp buffs when soloing to Synergism both myself and the Personae, the DPS increase is FTW.</div><div> </div><div>Charizma</div><div>69 Illusionist</div><div>OoFM</div><div>Splitpaw</div>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Bawang wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>crewguy72 wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Bawang wrote:<div></div><p>Short answer: If you decide to keep pet then buff 2 hastes if you have 2 melees and let it go at that.</p><hr></blockquote>How is this possible? I have 5 concentration slots, if i use my 2 grp buffs i have 3 slots left so if i take out my pet that leaves me with no room to haste?</div><div>Are you saying not to use my grp buffs?</div><p>Message Edited by crewguy72 on <span class="date_text">04-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:10 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>The fact of the matter is that, with only 5 conc slots, there just isn't enough rooms for group buffs.  It's my opinion this is a bad design decision on the part of developers.  I find myself buffing individuals in the group to increase damage output and I almost never have conc slots left for group buffs.<hr></blockquote>That's the whole design decision about concentration slots. Do I buff the group, or just that 1 individual?

[Barobra]

<div></div><div>A parser will help answer the question about who to buff with intensity.</div><div> </div><div>But, personally in a group I will change my group buffs depending on the group makeup and how well were doing.</div><div> </div><div>I hardly ever cast any of the intensity line on the tank (unless on raid) due to him possibly breaking my mezzes (which in turn pisses me off). I do usually cast haste on the MT to help him hold agro just a little better. If I know this is a good tank with adept 3 or better taunts then I don't even bother buffing him unless he asks.</div><div> </div><div>I ALWAYS cast intensity on myself. Because its a garunteed good use of the spell. I know the bards do well with it as well as conj, warlocks....any class that casts spells ALOT on MOBS (or even good ae's such as the warlock and conj). Debuffs.....anything doesnt matter.</div><div> </div><div>I do usually do the power buff on the group because power is so important. This might change if I notice no one is having a power issue at all (which is actually quite rare unless a bard is in the group...etc). Then I will switch to straight DPS ...bust out my pet...put intensity line on me and the pet. I usually have int buff potions on me since im an alchemist so I don't have to worry about the int cap too much since im so close to it already.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Impetus]

I've found that Shadowknights are really good to put Intensity on in a grouping situation.

[crewguy72]

<div></div><p>wow im really surprised with the answers i received.</p><p>So based on all this should i ever bother upgrading the augmentation that increases the power pool and arcane resistance for the illusionist's group or the Rune for Intel and wis Buff?</p><p> Trying to be the best chanter i can be, thanks again everyone i really appreciate your help!:smileyhappy:</p>

[zit]

<div></div><p>upgrade to your group buffs can be helpful when power is the crucial issue of an fight, which can be the case when fighting named mobs. or if mental/magic/divine resists are helpful, again most likely this is the case when fighting certain nameds or on raids.</p><p>just keep in mind that our group buffs dont stack with some other mage classes, so work out in group who is casting them.</p>

[Zebsen]

<div></div><div></div><div>I like the seal line (int and wis buff) and upgrade it whenever possible.  I use it frequently when grouping.  I rarely use the Aspect line.  The resists are minor and a well placed synergism or even haste buff is much better IMO.  I don't have a parser, but I generally keep the following buffs up in order of priority with good success:</div><div> </div><div>Seal (unless I'm grouped with someone like a druid with a good int buff that puts me at the cap already)</div><div>Synergism on: enchanters, bards always and mage fire pets if I think the MT can handle the agro control</div><div>Synergism on: SKs or pallies if they are the MT</div><div>Haste on: MT</div><div>Synergism on: conjurers/necros/SK/pallies</div><div>Haste on secondary tank(s)</div><div>Aspect line</div><div> </div><div>Zebsen</div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by ZebsenChanter on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:04 PM</span></p>

[Manyak]

<div>Synergism on myself is a must</div><div>If there is a wizzie in the group, i won't put up seal (he gives just as much int, so seal is useless). in all other cases, its always up</div><div>If theres a bunch of good classes to put synergism on (coercer/troubador/mage pet/SK) then they get it for sure</div><div>If theres any extra tanks (bruiser, guard, zerker) and i still have free slots, they get haste</div><div> </div><div>But, if the group cant really use my buffs all that well, like if theres only other who can proc dynamism and no extra tanks, ill bring out my pet since it would prolly do more DPS.</div>

[Belizarius]

<div></div><p>I do like to upgrade the Seal, both Int and Wis are useful stats to buff.  But bear in mind that every Mage class gets an Int + 'other stat' group buff, the Int portions won't stack so in a group with another Mage probably all you are buffing with it is Wis for resist bonuses and a little extra Priest power pool.</p><p>The resist buff can be useful on raids for the power pool.  Mobs with arcane AE attacks seem to me to be less common than elemental or noxious.</p><p>Of all the buffs mentioned, the best one to upgrade first is Intensity.  Breeze of course uses no concentration, so also a good one to upgrade.</p>

[Anachronomicon]

<DIV>Not all mages can buff their Int.</DIV>

[Sadaro]

<div><blockquote><hr>ZebsenChanter wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>I like the seal line (int and wis buff) and upgrade it whenever possible.  I use it frequently when grouping.  I rarely use the Aspect line.  The resists are minor and a well placed synergism or even haste buff is much better IMO.  I don't have a parser, but I generally keep the following buffs up in order of priority with good success:</div><div> </div><div>Seal (unless I'm grouped with someone like a druid with a good int buff that puts me at the cap already)</div><div>Synergism on: enchanters, bards always and mage fire pets if I think the MT can handle the agro control</div><div>Synergism on: SKs or pallies if they are the MT</div><div>Haste on: MT</div><div>Synergism on: conjurers/necros/SK/pallies</div><div>Haste on secondary tank(s)</div><div>Aspect line</div><div> </div><div>Zebsen</div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by ZebsenChanter on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:04 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>This is pretty close to my own strategy.  First, make sure *someone* has cast an INT buff.  INT affects spell and poison damage, and will increase group DPS more than anything else.  Of course, INT buffs don't stack, so only one person (wizard/fury/etc) needs to cast the INT buff.Note that wizards/warlocks don't get Synergism -- they just don't cast spells often enough.  Based on parsing, I'd guess the wizards cast spells every 4-6 seconds, compared to 2-2.5 seconds for illusionists.  It's simply more effective to summon the pet.There's one possible exception for warlocks.  If you know you'll be fighting groups of mobs, Synergism on the warlock becomes useful because it's applied to each and every mob in the group each time the warlock casts an AoE spell.Sadari70 IllusionistMistmoore</div>

[Manyak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ZebsenChanter wrote:<BR> <DIV>.....</DIV> <DIV>Haste on: MT</DIV>.....<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>just one thing i gotta say about this cuz alot of ppl dont realize it....if ur MT is a guard, and ur fighting real hard mobs, u shouldnt cast this. The only reason being that guards do minimal amounts of damage when tanking compared to everyone else, and u should take advantage of this. Increasing their rate of attacks just increases the rate of the mob's ripostes. increasig mob ripostes = making the tank take more damage, which is never a good thing against tough mobs =)

[zit]

^^ thats a good point to bring up and why i usually ask the MT if he wants to get buffed with haste or not. in normal xp group they almost always like to get haste. on raids its a completely different story.

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>DaMutation wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ZebsenChanter wrote:<BR> <DIV>.....</DIV> <DIV>Haste on: MT</DIV>.....<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>just one thing i gotta say about this cuz alot of ppl dont realize it....if ur MT is a guard, and ur fighting real hard mobs, u shouldnt cast this. The only reason being that guards do minimal amounts of damage when tanking compared to everyone else, and u should take advantage of this. Increasing their rate of attacks just increases the rate of the mob's ripostes. increasig mob ripostes = making the tank take more damage, which is never a good thing against tough mobs =)<hr></blockquote> Actually, that was changed in a patch a while ago. You now get riposted about the same amount per minute no matter how often you're attacking. It was back when they did the DW changes and brought their damage up. This helped the brawler community because of the fact that Monks had 100% haste and had to deal with it, so they balanced it out. So fear not, ripostes are no longer that big of an issue in comparison to the advantage haste provides!

[zit]

<P>yea, i remember about the changes to DW.</P> <P>but i do not trust SOE. :smileytongue:</P> <P>it has also been changed so that in theory every mage gets the same amount of spell procs and i still prefer to put synergism on the illu over a chain casting wiz.</P> <P>so till i see some relevant test results for riposts (anyone can point me to one?) or find the time to test it myself, i will be cautious about haste on the MT.</P>

[Manyak]

<DIV>either way i only make it a point not to do it if the tank is a guard. Zerkers, Monks, and Bruisers all need to attack to hold aggro anyway, so adding more haste isnt gonna change much. SKs of course would get dynamism before haste though. And this is always after any1 else in the group gets a buff if needed, since the tank is usualy gonna be in defensive stance and haste wont benefit him as much as it would on another fighter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and for the record, haste on a bruiser does wonders. u should try it sometime =)</DIV>

[Skirv]

Haste.I have only tried this stratagy once, but it seemed to work out.  I retired my Illusionist a long while back and recently brought back a month ago because of this.  several of my friends were going through runnyeye and only had enough to make a 4 man tank group(2 monks, 1 pally, 1 zerker), and there were no healers lfg, so another friend logged on as his level 50 templar and mentored down and casted some spell that when that person hits the group gets healed, on everyone.  Put himself on auto-follow and went afk, I thought it was so funny and I was about to log off for the night anyways, so I logged onto my illusionist and cast my haste move on them all, allong with my mana-regen and went afk.They weren't able to take out any named, which is what killed the stratagy, but it was enough to stay safe for a few hours getting some quests done, and quite abit of exp.  I was thinking, would that work at the higher levels, well not the afk part, cause I would assume if you want good loot they arn't gonna just hand it to ya.  That spell the templars have is freaking awesome, and cut the amount of time the healer needs to heal in half, especially if we can boost their attack speed.  Plus the fact that we have stuns to keep the enemy from giving anyone to much dmg.<div></div>

[Sadaro]

One huge problem with the Haste/Dynamism discussion:  it's real hard to get solid numbers on haste.  First, any additional damage just gets added to the target's melee damage.  Second, the effective haste will change a huge amount based on class, weapon speed, and preferred CA/spell order.Consider a tank with a 1.4 second weapon that spams CA's (with a brief pause between each CA to allow a swing).  His arts might take 1-2 seconds each.  A haste would be a huge benefit in this situation... The haste would allow him a swing between each spell cast instead of every other spell, effectively doubling the number of swings.Consider a scout with a 1 second weapon, spamming CA's and a 1-2 second CA time.  He gets no real benefit from haste, since he's already swinging once between each CA.How can you tell the difference between the two situations?  Unless you're very familiar with each class, you can't.  Your best-case scenario is to parse auto-attack damage without haste, then parse auto-attack damage with haste under similar circumstances.Caveat: The numbers were chosen to prove my point, and may not be typical of your tank/scout class.  If you have real numbers for a tank/scout class, let us know.I've done hard parsing for the high-level spell proc (Synergism), and I've found it's useful on chanters, illusionist pets, bards, fire/mage pets, paladins, and shadowknights.  The other classes simply don't cast spells (and scout poison is considered a spell) often enough to be useful.Finally, my numbers show that my pet generally provides more DPS then 3 well-placed Synergism spells.  In a caster-heavy group, the INT buff is also more useful than a single well-placed Synergism spell.  In some situations, the additional spell resists can be crucial.  However, those occur rarely and I usually spend my concentration on DPS.As far as I know, we're the only class that gets to make these really tough concentration choices.Sadari70 IllusionistMistmoore<div></div>

[Pins]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sadaro wrote:<BR>One huge problem with the Haste/Dynamism discussion:  it's real hard to get solid numbers on haste.  First, any additional damage just gets added to the target's melee damage.  Second, the effective haste will change a huge amount based on class, weapon speed, and preferred CA/spell order.<BR><BR>Consider a tank with a 1.4 second weapon that spams CA's (with a brief pause between each CA to allow a swing).  His arts might take 1-2 seconds each.  A haste would be a huge benefit in this situation... The haste would allow him a swing between each spell cast instead of every other spell, effectively doubling the number of swings.<BR><BR>Consider a scout with a 1 second weapon, spamming CA's and a 1-2 second CA time.  He gets no real benefit from haste, since he's already swinging once between each CA.<BR><BR>How can you tell the difference between the two situations?  Unless you're very familiar with each class, you can't.  Your best-case scenario is to parse auto-attack damage without haste, then parse auto-attack damage with haste under similar circumstances.<BR><BR>Caveat: The numbers were chosen to prove my point, and may not be typical of your tank/scout class.  If you have real numbers for a tank/scout class, let us know.<BR><BR>I've done hard parsing for the high-level spell proc (Synergism), and I've found it's useful on chanters, illusionist pets, bards, fire/mage pets, paladins, and shadowknights.  The other classes simply don't cast spells (and scout poison is considered a spell) often enough to be useful.<BR><BR>Finally, my numbers show that my pet generally provides more DPS then 3 well-placed Synergism spells.  In a caster-heavy group, the INT buff is also more useful than a single well-placed Synergism spell.  <BR><BR>In some situations, the additional spell resists can be crucial.  However, those occur rarely and I usually spend my concentration on DPS.<BR><BR>As far as I know, we're the only class that gets to make these really tough concentration choices.<BR><BR>Sadari<BR>70 Illusionist<BR>Mistmoore<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Most CAs are 0.5s cast time, unless they're AoEs, soo.</P> <P>Also in most-caster heavy groups, there's probably a wizard, or necro in it, so their INT buff can pickup the slack from ours, as they do not stack.</P>