Mez-Obsezz

[TangBaBa]

<div>I was wanting to get some thoughts from higher end chanters on the useage of mez-line spells while grouping.</div><div> </div><div>I play (among other things) a conjuror and a warlock, both of which are endowed with impressive AE abilities. However, when grouped with a chanter, I feel like half of my game is taken away from me.</div><div> </div><div>With my summoner: this is just awful, as I am often relegated to just smashing Snapping Mandibles over and over again. I even have to remove my fireseed buffs, as they involve a group AE effect. This makes for a rather boring encounter for me - and cuts my contribution to the group effort to next to nothing. I often find myself leaving these groups before too long.</div><div> </div><div>With my warlock: not quite as boring of an encounter, as my warlock does have more single target DD's at his disposal, but man - talk about neutering a class' defining characteristic. 'Locks are meant to be AE kings, but we're thrown off the throne when a chanter decides to use mez every fight.</div><div> </div><div>Now, don't get me wrong- I think chanters bring an immense amount of utility to a group, with decent DPS to boot. CC is a Godsend - but my personal feelings are that it should be used according to the situation - *not* as a governing strategy for *every* linked encounter a group comes across. CC is perfect for a bad pull or when a clean pull is impossible - chanters FTW! Got a ^^^ wandering add that's pummeling your tank while he's working on another mob? Chanters FTW!</div><div> </div><div>But when CC is used on every [Removed for Content]' encounter, it simultaneously (A) guts my "a" game (B) draws out what would otherwise be relatively quick encounters into lengthy (and even banal) chores.</div><div>What I end up with are chanters shrieking about broken group mez's like I just stepped on their firstborn.</div><div> </div><div>So what do the senior chanters say about this? Is this what I get to look forward to every time I group with a chanter? Am I best suited to just leaving the group when I find a mez-obsezzed chanter? Is this the only viable way to play the class? Thoughts, flames, whatever- I'd like to hear some input.</div>

[Domini]

<div>I can answer you with the following <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>1) Mezzes should only be used when the group is having problems bringing down pulled mob encounters.</div><div> </div><div>It's that simple.</div><div> </div><div>I'm a 61 Illusionist, and I've never had a problem letting the group pull a few mob groups to see our efficiency.   After a few groups, I can tell whether we need mezzes or not.</div><div> </div><div>My wife is a conjurer (level 61) and her pet (Master 1 Air Pet) out DPSs most group members, so I find it hard to believe that you feel useless in a group.  I'm not trying to flame, but most illusionists (at least at my level) know that you don't needlessly mezz and take away most of a groups DPS. </div><div> </div><div>If you do group with an illusionist that is needlessly mezzing - ask them if you can test out the groups efficiency a few times without any mezzes at all.  Illusionists have 2 group AoE DoTs they can use, so they might enjoy getting the chance to DPS for a while.</div><div> </div><div>Anyway, I do appreciate your candor, and I hope you appreciate mine.</div>

[WAPCE]

<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=26&message.id=11963" target="_blank">This</a> is a pretty comprehensive thread on effective grouping with an Illusionist, give it a read. As stated above, anyone mezzing within a single pulled encounter (unless asked to, in the case of some tough nameds) should be kicked in the nuts.

[auk]

Turn off "Protect me" and "Protect yourself" on your pet and the chanter should not have any other reason to complain <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Impetus]

I'm curious as to what your level is. I'd say that many enchanters (esp if they came from eq1, but not necessarily) start off trying to mez as much as possible. Hopefully they eventually will grow out of that tendency, though.And if they're a 50+ illusionist, tell them to quit that nonsense and start using Color Shower. Illusionists are pretty decent at encounter-wide damage, actually. We have 2 encounter dots, one that includes a stifle, the other includes 2 interrupts. We also have an encounter stun. Then you add on procs from our spell proc buff, we can put out some damage.I have no problem grouping with warlocks and conjurers. I put Dynamism (spell proc buff) on them and on me, and we go to town with AE encounter damage. Sure I can mez an add, especially if it's orange or not on the tank. But most people on this board will agree with you: mezzing within an encounter is almost never needed, and it usually just slows things down.Here are the times I'll mez within an encounter:1. Small group, or one without a tank or healer. In this case mezzing and stunning would allow us to take on content that we otherwise couldn't.2. Sometimes on a tough named encounter, esp if it's orange to our tank. Mezzing the named and burning the adds can help things go safely and smoothly, but if it's not needed then I skip it.3. Things have gotten hectic. Maybe an overpull, maybe tank down, maybe something on the healer. I'll mez to lock stuff down until things are a little more under control.But if it's your standard yellow group of 4 no-arrows, there's no way I'll be mezzing 3 out of 4 of those guys or hitting the group mez button.Honestly, I haven't grouped with a lot of other enchanters at high levels (my other characters aren't quite as high as my illusionist), so I don't really know what other people do. I only know what the folks on the board here say. Anyway, good luck to you in the future when grouping with an enchanter. If you're having problems in a group, I'd try what Dominion said. Ask if the group could try a couple multi-mob pulls without mez, and use AE instead. Maybe you'll show someone a different way.<p>Message Edited by Impetus on <span class="date_text">04-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:21 AM</span></p>

[Melmoth1820]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>In pvp there are immunity timers giving you windows of opportunity to go off with aoe without smashing mez.</div><div> </div><div>In daoc our sorc/bard would call out when they were remezzing down the stretch to give people a heads up just in case they were doing anything that might smash it.  The mez in this game is 10x more visible (i.e. multi-colored glow that stays on the person not ZZZZZZZ over their head for a few seconds and then nothing at all for the duration of it) and people shouldn't have a problem using their aoe abilities when things are not mezzed in pvp and stopping when they are/are about to be.</div><div> </div><div>In pve....whatever gets you through it faster, so let the aoes fly I guess, but some people that haven't group pvped a fair amount before and are going to be pvping now are going to need practice not breaking cc and that basic practice comes from your pve.  There's almost never an excuse for anyone to break mez accidently in pvp (especially in this game, root doens't get smashed, and there are easymode 'removes target from aoe unless direct' effects to a lot of spells), but in pve, probably illusionists are just getting bored and wanting to use their mez--and should probably relax and let the aoe guys do the work.</div><p>Message Edited by Melmoth1820 on <span class="date_text">04-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:57 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Melmoth1820 on <span class="date_text">04-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:58 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Melmoth1820 on <span class="date_text">04-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:00 AM</span></p>

[Bawang]

<div></div><p>I find it amazing that you actually refrain from using mez breaking AEs even in situations when you think the chanter is overdoing it.  Where are the people like you when I'm grouping? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  We get no respect in EQ2.  People just do whatever they want so I've learned to adapt.  I only mezz when I really think there's a danger of the group being overwhelmed.  I find that tends to happen in some zones more than others.  I feel I found my groove as an Illusionist in Cazic Thule.  The place is just chaotic enough that wipes are not uncommon. </p><p>As a simple rule, I don't bother mezzing 1 up arrow heroics, even if there's a whole bunch of them.  I feel any good group should be able to handle them without mezz.  When it's a bunch of 2 up arrows, it depends on the quality of the MT and how much damage they're taking.  Some MTs seem to have such godly gear that they can't seem to take any damage, in which case I won't bother mezzing at all unless I see the mobs picking on a mage or a priest. </p><p>Mezzing in EQ2 is Plan B.  The value for a group to have an enchanter is that the group DOES have a plan B when the @&#$ hits the fan.</p>

[zit]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Bawang wrote:<div></div><p>Mezzing in EQ2 is Plan B.  The value for a group to have an enchanter is that the group DOES have a plan B when the @&#$ hits the fan.</p><hr></blockquote>this sounds so nice.... :smileyvery-happy:

[Somna]

It really all depends.If you are in a mini group that's very low on healing (i.e. no healer), for example, there's no such thing as needlessly mezzing.If you're in a group with no healing issues though, it's definitely a good idea to ask the enchanter, up front, to save the mezzes for extra encounters that add onto the group rather than choking your DPS needlessly.  If the chanter pitches a fit about it, you're better off without that player.  A decent enchanter should be able to tell after a couple pulls whether it is really necessary to mez often.<div></div>

[jun]

<div>What they said...</div><div> </div><div>The key to being a good Illusionists is 'assessment'.  That's part of what makes this class a blast to play.  If you can read the signs, you will know when to mez without a doubt.  And in most cases where you find yourself thinking too long, you are safer to mez than not.  I have ran with guild groups that would have you burning the hair from your nose breathing so hard at some of their pulls.</div><div> </div><div>I about zoned out on them once in the Roost when the defiler pulled all the front mobs (minus named ones) to the door.  It was my first run with them and pretty much old hat for them.  None the less, it made my eyes pop out of my head like a New Year's party favor and sent me into a mez'n frenzy.  I burned through a large portion of my power pool before the tank said he had them all under control.  I was skeptical... but trusting enough to know that he knew his business.  They were impressed with the number of mobs I had locked down and pretty much asked me to be a permanent member of their xp group. </div><div> </div><div>"Anyone that can stay THAT cool and lock down THAT much trash.... is definately someone I want around when things REALLY get bad!" (direct quote from the healer)</div><div> </div><div>So yeah, you will get a lot of 'that depends' openers because our jobs are fundamentally situational at best.</div><div> </div><div>Kailen</div>

[TangBaBa]

<div></div><p>Thanks for the input guys. Seems like I may just be grouping with the wrong chanters.</p><p> </p>

[Terayon]

all the positive energy here, I may just go lusionist.<div></div>

[Bawang]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Terayon wrote:all the positive energy here, I may just go lusionist.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Hmmm....I feel we're failing in the main purpose of this forum.....In case you didn't know, the main purporse of this forum is to so whine about our wretched powerlessness that everyone who comes here would be totally turned off on the idea of starting an illusionist, thus keeping our numbers down and ensuring that there's high demand for the few of us who have seen through this ploy and have taken up this profession.</p><p> </p><p>Bawango</p><p>51 Illusionist - Crushbone</p><p> </p>

[Barobra]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Bawang wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Terayon wrote:all the positive energy here, I may just go lusionist.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Hmmm....I feel we're failing in the main purpose of this forum.....In case you didn't know, the main purporse of this forum is to so whine about our wretched powerlessness that everyone who comes here would be totally turned off on the idea of starting an illusionist, thus keeping our numbers down and ensuring that there's high demand for the few of us who have seen through this ploy and have taken up this profession.</p><p> </p><p>Bawango</p><p>51 Illusionist - Crushbone</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>:smileyvery-happy:

[ximo]

<div>When in a group, and in a zone such  and we are about to take on a group I ask:</div><div> </div><div>AE or Mez?</div><div> </div><div>One or the other, then the AE players and me are happy and know what we are doing....</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Barobra]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ximo wrote:<div>When in a group, and in a zone such  and we are about to take on a group I ask:</div><div> </div><div>AE or Mez?</div><div> </div><div>One or the other, then the AE players and me are happy and know what we are doing....</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>Good advice, I do this as well. Specially in a pickup group.

[TuxDave]

<div></div><div>Yeah, sounds like you're grouping with the wrong enchanters.  They shouldn't be doing group mezzing on every encounter especially if you have classes that can AE.  I usually group with warlocks and berzerkers and I only resort to group mezzing when the MT is going down hard or is already down.  As my guild likes to call it, having me around gives them a coffee break in battle to regroup and finish a battle that should have wiped them out.</div><p>Message Edited by TuxDave on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:10 AM</span></p>

[Sadaro]

Keep in mind that once an illusionist hits 50, they have some excellent AE spells, too.Times a good illusionist will mez:(1) To handle additional mobs (PBAoE will break mezzed adds if the illusionist used his group mez).(2) When tactically required and the group knows about it (ie., tough named, low healing, etc.)(3) When things start going really bad... drop Illusory Allies, PBAoE mez, and start trying to lock as much stuff down as possible until the tank is back up.  Of course, by the time you start doing this, it's usually too late.(3) doesn't occur very often, but when it does and the illusionist pulls it off... WOW!Conjurerers should consider turning off 'pet protect me' and 'pet protect self' when grouping with enchanters.  Be careful with your PBAoE spell -- try to stop using it if the enchanter mezzed a bunch of adds.Sadari<div></div>