Grouping with Illusionists

[MastikFantastik]

Hello all,I wanted to start off by saying I love grouping with you guys. I am a Guardian and the power regen you bring along with the crowd control and the dps is a nice combo.  I was wondering for those out there that are unacustomed to grouping with you guys, do you have any annoyances, tips, etc for those out there. Heck you might tell me something I didn't know that irks you guys or just new info I never knew , after all I am always wanting to learn.<div></div>

[WAPCE]

The biggest problem I have NOW are new pet users who don't know that turning off the protect-me toggle is a good idea for crowd control (and tank aggro management in general). The worst is that awful Shaman dog. Mezzing an add doesn't do much good when that stupid dog is attacking the mob that popped behind us and attacked the uber-aggro-generating warder...<p>Message Edited by WAPCE on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:56 PM</span></p>

[Barobra]

<div></div>Heres a good tip. When your going to break mez...make sure the mob has YOU targeted first...so taunt until he hates you..then break the mez.

[Anir]

Not an irk so much torwards tanks and what not.  But people dont know how to click off their dots when say a critical situation comes into play.  Like the tank dies and there is a need for a mez to keep the group alive..but someone has a dot on it.  Which than results in a wipe, thats what has been irking me the most lately. <div></div>

[MastikFantastik]

All good tips guys keep em comming.  I myself do the things you mentioned such as taunting before "I" break a mez and when grouped with you guys I don't use AOE's not my bleed(dot) type CA's. Not that they are all that impressive anyway. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I am one of those fools out there that likes to know what is going on in the head of others that are playing becase I want to be the best tank I can be.  So not only do I seek out ways to improve myself I seek out ways that help the play of others which in part improves my play.<div></div>

[Manyak]

<div>If u want tips, after playing both a guard and illu i can tell u these things......</div><div> </div><div>1 - Ur aoe taunts (protect and that other one, whatevr it was called) are blocked by a chanter's single mezz, but not aoe mezz. So if some mobs in an encounter NEED to be mezzed and the chanter aoe mezzes, make sure u dont use the damaging aoe taunt until he has remezzed them seperately with single mezz, or ull break em. And once hes remezzed them singly for a while, dont expect to have aggro on any of them since ur taunts wouldnt have been reaching them.</div><div> </div><div>2 - As stated by some1 else, make sure u taunt before breaking mezzes. Another good idea would be that u always break mezzes with ur shield bash (stun), this way u have a chance to get aggro just in case something goes screwy.</div><div> </div><div>3 - 99.9% of the time, the enchanter shouldn't mezz mobs linked to the one u have targeted. Id say the only exceptions to this are if u have alot of adds come at once (like 4+), or if ur fighting an orange named with friends. It screws with ur aggro (as described above), and makes kills go slower (so less xp over time). Please make sure the enchanter knows this, cuz surprisingly alot of them still believe they need to mezz everything in sight.</div><div> </div><div>4 - Get to know the chanter in your group. If hes attentive enough for u to rely on him to mezz adds before they hit the group, then u dont ever have to worry about taunting adds until what ur fighting is already dead. If he doesnt react to adds fast enough, then u need to start switching to the adds to taunt them urself. Just do what u can to minimize the time u have the add targeted, cuz the ppl assisting u will be unleashing nukes and dots constantly. Confront has a 0.2 sec casting time, so the closer u can limit urself to that time when targeting an add the better. The less time u have it targeted, the less of a chance there is of some1 landing a dot, which stops the chanter from mezzing.</div><div> </div><div>5 - If the chanter REALLY sux and cant mezz a bunch of adds reliably (which ive seen believe it or not), reinforcement+tremor should work wonders. Itll break any mezzes up, yes, but at the same time ull get aggro on everything. And if things are really bad, using sentry watch right before the reinforcement+tremor combo wouldnt hurt either.</div><div> </div><div>6 - If your group sux and cant work around mezzes and some person in your group cant grasp the concept when u guys try to teach him, just play as if u didnt have a chanter at all. And let the chanter know that ur going to so he doesnt get aggro and die off of trying to mezz, this way he just sticks with stuns and stifles in the bad situations and DPSs the rest of the time. Even with a bunch of adds, the mana regen should be good enough for the healer to keep u alive. Of course, u know ur own tanking ability and hopefully the mobs around u as well, so this option may or may not be good for u.</div>

[Belizarius]

<div></div><div></div><p>Hmm.</p><p>Main Rule, imho.</p><p>With a chanter on board (if they are any good), nobody in the group touches adds except the chanter.  No offtanking, no target switching, just let the chanter handle it.  This does assume that the chanter knows how to play.  Most frustrating thing I see, is if we get a named or heroic add, and the tank switches without killing the existing target which is probably DoTed. Everything is now unmezzable, my stifle may also be down, and we wipe on something that should have been an easy fight.</p><p>Do not use PBAEs if you get a group encounter add.  You'll break our AE mez, which has a long recast.</p><p>Taunt before mez break, or ask the chanter to stun (with a macro) before you break.</p><p>Your Illusionist shouldn't be mezzing within the main encounter, unless you are only 2 or 3 up or lack a healer or proper tank.  Get them to stun/stifle.</p><p>One of our best abilities, is the 'pause button' effect.  Unless everything in sight has been dotted, we usually have the ability at any given time to put the whole fight on ice.  This can be used to recover from a semi-wipe, to regen power, whatever.  You group needs to know when to back off (usually when either the tank or healer drops).  We will probably stun first to give people time to cancel their DoTs, then mez.</p><p>If you're in a place with lots of adds, some classes may need to drop their AE self buffs (eg zerkers, swashies).</p><p>If the chanter is mezzing, please kill the <em>weakest</em> mobs first.  Makes life a lot easier for us mezzing, and means we can give the heroic/named mob our full attention with stifles when we start fighting it.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Belizarius on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:41 PM</span></p>

[Sadaro]

If I'm with a new group, I let them know I'm quick to mez adds -- and the tank is welcome to taunt at the same time.  One of us will be effective, and as long as the mob isn't hitting me or the healer, everyone is happy.Be aware some classes have a PBAoE damage shield (ie., when a target hits the main tank, all mobs in the area are hit).  This seems to break any and all mezzes in effect.If the fight's going really bad and the group isn't cooperating to let you mez, remember to switch to stuns, roots, and Illusory Allies.Sadari66 IllusionistMistmoore<div></div>

[Celestian_]

I've recently picked up the enchanter mantle I used to wear in EQ1 as a change from healer. One thing I noticed is the "blue aoes" that tank types (and scouts) seem to like to use.In one group I mentioned "If you guys want me to mez you can't use those blue aoe abilities". Everyone but this one ranger seemed to understand and after answering his varying questions about what I meant he eventually just dropped out of the group. I asked if he left because he thought I was telling him what to do and he said "I am tired of people not knowing what they are doing I do more dps when I aoe".Obviously AOE has it's place and I generally give the group a few seconds to pop off their aoes before I aoe mez or begin to mez (I even explained that to this ranger) but it didn't seem to matter.I wasn't being rude or telling him how to play. I just asked them to not use blue aoes if they wanted me to mez. Everyone but him seemed to grasp the concept.<div></div>

[Belizarius]

<div></div><div>Well, the decision is between Blue AEs and Group mez.  You can still single target mez no worries.</div><div>Funny, I've never had an issue with Rangers and mezzing.</div><div> </div><div>probably, the first question to ask the group is 'do you want me to mez anything?', and adapt.  The thing to make clear, is that mezzing doesn't work as well as an afterthought.</div>

[Rayvne2]

<div><blockquote><hr>Belizarius wrote:<div></div><div>Well, the decision is between Blue AEs and Group mez.  You can still single target mez no worries.</div><div>Funny, I've never had an issue with Rangers and mezzing.</div><div> </div><div>probably, the first question to ask the group is 'do you want me to mez anything?', and adapt.  The thing to make clear, is that mezzing doesn't work as well as an afterthought.</div><hr></blockquote>Yeah, I find it pretty essential to ask the group what they want me to concentrate on when I join.  If we have a solid group I usually only mezz named encounters and let everyone go aoe crazy for everything else.  If anything adds to the encounter I will mezz the 2nd encounter/add.</div><div>What usually works really great is to agree with the group to mezz the most powerful target in a encounter (ie named) and they can go aoe crazy on all it's friends.</div><div>If we over mezz, something I was guilty of early on coming from EQ where all adds were mezzed, then the group get upset that kills are taking too long and it is affecting their dps.  Sometimes it is easier to just join in the fun, aoe dot and stun and help drop mobs fast.</div><div> </div><div>For me the most important thing a group member can do to help me in a group is communicate.</div>

[Celestian_]

<span><blockquote><hr>Belizarius wrote:<div></div><div>probably, the first question to ask the group is 'do you want me to mez anything?', and adapt.  The thing to make clear, is that mezzing doesn't work as well as an afterthought.</div><hr></blockquote>Yup, in the above group I had said if ya want me to mez don't use blue aoes. As I said everyone else was fine with it and had they not been I would have just used my abilities I could w/o mez.Do groups tend to want mezing at upper levels more? My enchanter right now is at 36 and so far I've yet to be in a group that seems to know how to play with a mezer. I'm kinda shocked cause in EQ1 it seemed almost everyone understood.Right now I am really trying to find a Iclass I like to play and if mezing isnt something thats useful I might as well pick another class to be of more use.</span><div></div>

[Impetus]

<blockquote><hr>Celestian_GC wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Belizarius wrote:<div></div><div>probably, the first question to ask the group is 'do you want me to mez anything?', and adapt. The thing to make clear, is that mezzing doesn't work as well as an afterthought.</div><hr></blockquote>Yup, in the above group I had said if ya want me to mez don't use blue aoes. As I said everyone else was fine with it and had they not been I would have just used my abilities I could w/o mez.Do groups tend to want mezing at upper levels more? My enchanter right now is at 36 and so far I've yet to be in a group that seems to know how to play with a mezer. I'm kinda shocked cause in EQ1 it seemed almost everyone understood.Right now I am really trying to find a Iclass I like to play and if mezing isnt something thats useful I might as well pick another class to be of more use.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I'd say less, actually. If I'm in a group of 6, I almost never mez within an encounter. Sometimes we will if it has a named. Adds, again sometimes, but it depends on how good/fast the tank is and how difficult the area is that we're fighting.If you came up to me and asked if my primary job is mezzing, I would say no. What do I cast the most? Color Shower, our level 50 AE/stifle. Prismatic Havoc line. Mental debuff dot, dumbfire pet, and long stun if it's something tough, our quick nuke line if it's not. Our other AE dot and maybe AE stun, if it's a multi-mob encounter. Those are the things I use the most, definitely not the mezzes.Obviously it's different in a small group, or a group without a healer.I do find it amusing that a 30's ranger wanted to AE. Don't they only have one AE at that level, and it requires stealth? When I'm on my 38 ranger I don't use it very often. If it were a warlock or conjurer or something, I could understand them getting annoyed, but a mid-level ranger?<p>Message Edited by Impetus on <span class="date_text">03-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:13 PM</span></p>

[Belizarius]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Impetus wrote:If you came up to me and asked if my primary job is mezzing, I would say no. What do I cast the most? Color Shower, our level 50 AE/stifle. Prismatic Havoc line. Mental debuff dot, dumbfire pet, and long stun if it's something tough, our quick nuke line if it's not. Our other AE dot and maybe AE stun, if it's a multi-mob encounter. Those are the things I use the most, definitely not the mezzes.Obviously it's different in a small group, or a group without a healer.<hr></blockquote><p>About the same here.</p><p>I don't solo much.  If I am duoing with my wife on her swashy, I use mez quite a bit on linked encounters.</p><p>If I'm in a full guild group, I will only mez out-of-encounter adds, or if we have a semi-wipe.</p><p>Occasionally, I will mez a named while they kill it's linked minions.</p><p>If you really wanted to play a mezzer, this is the right class for it, but the wrong game.</p><p>If you really wanted to play a good support class in eq2, currently Bards are probably the way to go.</p>

[Celestian_]

<span><blockquote><hr>Belizarius wrote:<div></div><p>If you really wanted to play a mezzer, this is the right class for it, but the wrong game.</p><p>If you really wanted to play a good support class in eq2, currently Bards are probably the way to go.</p><hr></blockquote>I also have a troubador as well that is level 27. It's much harder to solo but it does seem to be a pretty good support class.  Right now I mainly have not played it much because it just seems not a lotta folks group at that level... the illusionist solo'd much better so thats why its much higher level. I've been flipping back and forth trying to decide. Illusionist has some fun abilities though but that bard run speed is nice!I play on crushbone and it's always packed but I guess everyone is at end game (or most) because the only time I find 30 or more people LFG is during peak and thats all levels.Thanks for the good feedback. It'll help me decide.</span><div></div>

[Belizarius]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Celestian_GC wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Belizarius wrote:<div></div><p>If you really wanted to play a mezzer, this is the right class for it, but the wrong game.</p><p>If you really wanted to play a good support class in eq2, currently Bards are probably the way to go.</p><hr></blockquote>I also have a troubador as well that is level 27. It's much harder to solo but it does seem to be a pretty good support class.  Right now I mainly have not played it much because it just seems not a lotta folks group at that level... the illusionist solo'd much better so thats why its much higher level. I've been flipping back and forth trying to decide. Illusionist has some fun abilities though but that bard run speed is nice!</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>In the current state of the game, if you have any aspirations for raiding, then Bard.  Your Illusionist will almost certainly have a spot in the raid force, but you will probably be bored and frustrated.  I don't know how much fun Bards are on raids, but the thing is that they still have more useful abilities than they can use at once.</p><p>There is of course a slight chance that this will change by the time you get to raid level, but don't hold your breath.</p><p>If you have no intention of raiding, then the choice is much more balanced.</p>

[Hassin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>DaMutation wrote:<div>If u want tips, after playing both a guard and illu i can tell u these things......</div><div> </div><div>.....</div><div> </div><div>4 - ....., then u need to start switching to the adds to taunt them urself. Just do what u can to minimize the time u have the add targeted, cuz the ppl assisting u will be unleashing nukes and dots constantly. Confront has a 0.2 sec casting time, so the closer u can limit urself to that time when targeting an add the better. The less time u have it targeted, the less of a chance there is of some1 landing a dot, which stops the chanter from mezzing.</div><div> </div><div>.....</div><hr></blockquote>Your best bet is to have one person be the main assist (that never changes target) and one person be the main tank (who taunts with non-mez breaking taunts).

[Hassin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>WAPCE wrote:..... The biggest problem I have NOW are new pet users who don't know that turning off the protect-me toggle is a good idea for crowd control (and tank aggro management in general). .....<p>Message Edited by WAPCE on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:37 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>You are so right. If there is going to be mezzing the pets need to have protect me and protect self turned off.</p><p>When I duo with my conjuror friend; however, we let his pet tank so he keeps his protect-me toggle on, I lock down everything the pet isn't fighting and we go to town! :smileyvery-happy:</p>