Haste question

[Bratface]

<div><font size="3">I have Legerity at master1, we also dropped the coercer Velocity master1, I am wondering there is supposed ot be such a huge diffrence in the two spells?</font></div><div><font size="3"></font> </div><div><font size="3">Legerity at M1 is 56% haste, while Velocity is 65% haste, do Illusionists have something else that compensates for the 9% difference?</font></div><div><font size="3"></font> </div><div><font size="3">Some may say that they don't even use the spell but thats not the point, I do use it every day myself and I want to know why it is so much lower than the coercer haste and if so, why?</font></div><div><font size="3"></font> </div><div><font size="3"></font> </div><div><font size="3"></font> </div><div><font size="3"></font> </div>

[ScamprinSlippy]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>if im not mistaken, coercers dont have haste.  they have something that raises the targets melee dps by raising the damage per hit. so... an illusionist causes more hits (resulting in more procs, and more ripostes against the melee person), and the coercer causes more damage with the same amount of hits, procs, and ripostes.  so its not really a simple matter of percentage.  i'd say the higher amount of procs more than makes up for the 9% more of the general dps.  problem is that many people have max haste already, so our haste isnt always useful.</p><p>i don't have a coercer, so uh... someone correct me if im wrong on this.  i could be thinking of a spell by another class</p><p>Message Edited by ScamprinSlippy on <span class="date_text">02-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:04 AM</span></p>

[-Aonein-]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ScamprinSlippy wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>if im not mistaken, coercers dont have haste.  they have something that raises the targets melee dps by raising the damage per hit. so... an illusionist causes more hits (resulting in more procs, and more ripostes against the melee person), and the coercer causes more damage with the same amount of hits, procs, and ripostes.  so its not really a simple matter of percentage.  i'd say the higher amount of procs more than makes up for the 9% more of the general dps.  problem is that many people have max haste already, so our haste isnt always useful.</p><p>i don't have a coercer, so uh... someone correct me if im wrong on this.  i could be thinking of a spell by another class</p><p>Message Edited by ScamprinSlippy on <span class="date_text">02-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:04 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Realistically, haste does nothing but kill the mob faster, if you had no haste you would still perform the same amount of swings, procs and damage as you would with 65% haste.......so its all about how fast you want to kill the mob.</p><p>Haste doesnt reduce the amount of HP a mob has......</p>

[ScamprinSlippy]

<div>"if you had no haste you would still perform the same amount of swings, procs and damage as you would with 65% haste.......so its all about how fast you want to kill the mob."</div><div> </div><div>thats only true if you are solo, because you are going to kill the mob after a certain number of swings and procs.</div><div> </div><div>if you are not solo, the rest of the group is doing the same routine and the mob is going to die in X seconds. Haste allows you to contribute more swings before the mob is killed by everyone else (and slightly lowers X). So in a group situation, haste means more swings than usual before the mob is dead, and more melee procs.  And yes, it still means the mob is killed faster.</div>

[Manyak]

<div>haste =/= more melee procs</div><div> </div><div>When a proc says "On a successful melee attack this spell has a 5% chance to........." or whatevr, that means that theres a 5% chance during a 3 sec period of autoattacks. And depending on the weapon delay or casting time of a CA, the chance per hit is changed to fit that description.</div><div> </div><div>the equation to figure out the chance to proc per hit is:</div><div> </div><div>((weapon delay or casting time) / 3) * proc%</div><div> </div><div>so if a weap originally has a 1.5 sec delay, the chance to proc per hit is 2.5%</div><div>if u haste and decrease it to a 1 sec delay, the chanec to proc per hit is 1.7%</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>this also applies to spells and CAs</div>

[Etillchou]

so a slower weapon will proc more then a faster weapon?hmmz sure the formula isn't vice versa.(3/casting time) * %procthen with a faster weapon you will get more procs which what I've seen in the game.And with this hasting does increase dps from procs and auto attack.at least that's what I've seen from the time when i played an assasin. Faster weapons made poisons proc more ofthen slower weaposn

[Manyak]

<div></div><div></div><p>nope its the other way around. how do u think rangers had that huge amount of DPS? by using a long bow with a 7.0 sec delay, that gives (7/3)*0.25 which means a 58.3% chance to proc a 25% poison on any CA or autoattack. Thats why ranger DPS was so high. If if was the way ur saying it is, it would give a 10% chance to proc poison on a CA.</p><p>but now with the nerf thats changed to be CA casting time not autoattack time. and with most ranger CAs having about a 1? sec casting time, that gives an 8.3% chance to proc the same poison. now u know how much rangers were nerfed <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p>hasting, btw, has VERY little effect on scouts. Haste only works on autoattacks, and scouts are only able to let off 1 or 2 hits in the 0.5sec cooldown time between each CA...and they MASH CAs. Haste on a tank type does alot more cuz they dont mash CAs as much, so the autoatack actually gets though.</p><p> </p><p>Another way u can look at it....autoattack only makes up for about 5% of an assassins DPS, so ur increasing that 5% by say 49% (Legerity master 1), which in effect increases overall DPS by only 2.5%. autoattack makes up for about 45% of a guardian's DPS, so hasting that by 49% increases overall DPS by 22.5%. i mean i dunno what those exact numbers are, but they r somewhere around there.</p><p>Message Edited by DaMutation on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:10 AM</span></p>

[-Aonein-]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>DaMutation wrote:<div>haste =/= more melee procs</div><div> </div><div>When a proc says "On a successful melee attack this spell has a 5% chance to........." or whatevr, that means that theres a 5% chance during a 3 sec period of autoattacks. And depending on the weapon delay or casting time of a CA, the chance per hit is changed to fit that description.</div><div> </div><div>the equation to figure out the chance to proc per hit is:</div><div> </div><div>((weapon delay or casting time) / 3) * proc%</div><div> </div><div>so if a weap originally has a 1.5 sec delay, the chance to proc per hit is 2.5%</div><div>if u haste and decrease it to a 1 sec delay, the chanec to proc per hit is 1.7%</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>this also applies to spells and CAs</div><hr></blockquote><p>Haste doesnt effect your chance to proc, all your doing is performing swings faster and in turn generate the procs faster.</p><p>They havent released the formula to proc using CA's or spells casting timers, but i can tell you this, it isnt the same as the way the produce weapon procs thats for sure....cause alot of my CA's are 0.5 second cast timers, now using the old formula we get this :</p><ul><li>0.5 / 3 *10 = 1.6% chance to proc of a skill that states 10%.</li></ul><p>Seriously do not think its intended to work like this especially when those same 0.5 second casting time CA's have a 30 second refresh period.</p><p> </p>

[Manyak]

<div></div><p>before they changed the proc rate to be affected by CA timers, this was the formula. and i also know that they still use this formula for the autoattack. and one thing ive noticed from my spells is that certain ones proc dynamism more than the others (embolism, shower, and   spectrum)...so they are most likely still using it.</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>-Aonein- wrote:<div></div><blockquote><ul><li>0.5 / 3 *10 = 1.6% chance to proc of a skill that states 10%.</li></ul><p>Seriously do not think its intended to work like this especially when those same 0.5 second casting time CA's have a 30 second refresh period.</p></blockquote><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>when they say 10%, that means a 10% chance to proc in a 3 second period of autoattacks. not per hit. alot of poisons have a 25% chance to proc. do u really see it procing once every 4 hits? doubt it.</p>

[-Aonein-]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>DaMutation wrote:<div></div><p>before they changed the proc rate to be affected by CA timers, this was the formula. and i also know that they still use this formula for the autoattack. and one thing ive noticed from my spells is that certain ones proc dynamism more than the others (embolism, shower, and   spectrum)...so they are most likely still using it.</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>-Aonein- wrote:<div></div><blockquote><ul><li>0.5 / 3 *10 = 1.6% chance to proc of a skill that states 10%.</li></ul><p>Seriously do not think its intended to work like this especially when those same 0.5 second casting time CA's have a 30 second refresh period.</p></blockquote><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>when they say 10%, that means a 10% chance to proc in a 3 second period of autoattacks. not per hit. alot of poisons have a 25% chance to proc. do u really see it procing once every 4 hits? doubt it.</p><hr></blockquote><p>When it comes to weapon procs OR procing a applied effect via auto attack swings, they are still using the old :</p><ul><li>( weapon speed / 3 ) * proc chance.</li></ul><p>A Dev ( acually it was one of the games coders, not a Dev ) already stated they do, but when it comes to procs procing of the use of CA's or Spells, its a totally different formula because i can tell you right now, that i dont have a 1.6% chance to proc something that states its a 10% chance reguardless of wether it procs of a auto attack swing or CA / Spell cast when that same spell has a 30 second refresh timer. Do some math over any given amount of time with the 30 second refresh timer and see what your potential proc percent would be over any given amount of time, say 60 mins for example, you would be lucky if it worked out to be a 0.05% chance to proc of the CA with a 10% chance to proc applied effect over the 60 min period........:smileyindifferent:</p><p>As for the 25% posion procing every 4 hits, yeah i used to watch them proc every hit when the Ranger used a 7 second delay bow, which is the reason for this change to begin with along with other classes exploiting issues like the Prismatic line Illusionists have for example where if you casted this ability on a Brusier or Berserker and they went crazy with AoE's or Brusier 9 hit in a row CA, you could potentially get a enomrous amount of Prismatic Havoc procs thus creating a emense amount of Dynasium procs to go with it.</p><p>Also you will find that weapons like RGF that used to have a 3.8 second cast timer has been severly effected also, basically seeing that the calculation is normalized of a 3 second delay period, anything over 3 seconds now is severly lacking when it comes to proc potential. Which is why you havent seen any weapons over a 3 second delay since Tier 5.</p><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:51 PM</span></p>

[Manyak]

<div>well id serously like to know what the formula is :smileyvery-happy:</div>

[Pins]

<div>It's Weapon Delay/3.0s*Proc % or CA Cast Time/3.0s*proc %.  Haste does NOT affect it, nor does reducing cast timers.  Spell procs are strictly the %age.  Cast time does not affect them.</div>