The updated: "25 things that still bug me about the illusionist class"

[KaltenAlTh]

<DIV>Back on Oct 18th last year I created a post called. "<EM>25 things that still bug me about the illusionist class, even after the 'revamp'</EM>"</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=26&message.id=8484#M8484" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=26&message.id=8484#M8484</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last night I was bored on the guild raid waiting for LD players and such, figured I'd see what was done about these and update my list.  Here's the list as it was back in October with some new comments</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><EM>1. Why can't I use my spells like stiffle on epics any longer, the combat revamp was supposed to make it so that I could use my spells on all encounters. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed, if anything it was made worse by changing some encounters to not allow mez also.</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>2. Very few poeple other then illusionists themselves and poeple we group with all the time seem to have any idea of what we are capible of. </EM></P><EM></EM> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Still true but now nearly everyone has figured out that bards are much better then us on raids.</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>3. Still think our mental dots should do more damage per tick.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>4. Why do I get a spell resist "ding" noise when my dots land?</EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>5. Why can I use the Prismatic Strife spell to advance a HO but not finish a HO? </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>6. Why is Sap Will such a small upgrade (depending on how you look at it a downgrade) from drain will.  Consider front loading the drain and making it drain a LOT more. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not sure about this but it's pretty pointless to power drain any more so probally isn't even worth figuring this out.</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>7. Really wish that I could power drain mobs, draining 1/8th of a mobs power doesn't really do well... anything. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>8. Why is the Mana Cloak spell sound so dam loud, people litterally get upset at me for using that spell. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>9. I'm having a hard time keeping guardian power from completely running out, not having this issue with other classes.  Enflaming defence (guardian spell) takes to much power and guardian tuants in general seem to take to much power. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed. We have to keep a bard and an coecer (for the agro transfer too) in our MT group most times to keep the MT in power.</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>10. I really still want a spell that debuffs all magic resist types, similar to the way that Hex of Choas Dolls work but faster casting and slightly more effective. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>11. I'd like a mental debuff that doesn't do damage (think wither hope spell but no dot) so that I can debuff mez'd mobs. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>12. The visual animation for mez is to hard for people to see in group.  Need a more obvious visual queue like the hammer for stun. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>13. The visual animation for stuns (the hammer) needs to run quicker so that you don't see it 2 seconds after casting the spell but when it's actualy cast. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>14. I miss the AGI buff sure it didn't do alot but it helped some. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed but I can live without this seeing we do wisdom and the coecer do agi.  </STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>15. Blink and Barrier of Intellect need to be better agro control spells. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>16. Need a group version of cure arcane. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>17. I'm nearly always at the intel cap (unless im solo) making Transient Sentiment kinda pointless.  Sure wish it buffed Wisdom too to help out the healers and give the group a resist boost. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Kinda fixed, they didn't put in wisdom but did add in focus.</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>18. I still can't figure out when to use dispell and if it's doing anything at all. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>19. We don't have a good 'Finish off the HO' nuke that is high damage, I would be happy to have a 800 damage'ish nuke that is a long recast timer that I could just use to finish off the HO for that extra HO damage.  While not spamming it for a big DPS boost becuase it's a long recast. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>20. Boy I miss the nightmare proc on raids. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>21. So dam hard to find Savant and Illusionary Allies so dam hard to find. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not sure about this, I did finally find them.  Now to their usefulness?  I find they are not really worth casting except for a very very rare occasion.</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>22. No breeze upgrades 50-60, and no master 2 choices for breeze line?  Ouch!  This should be #2 on the list no clue how I got way down here before typin this one up. </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>23. Why are we better at buffing divine resists then at buffing mental resists? </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Hum... Not sure on this.</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>24. Dam Illusionists are great at PvP.  (ok i needed something else to get me to a list of 25 not 24) </EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>We got PvP nerfed quite a bit, we are still pretty unbeatable by most all classes.  Well scouts give me a hell of a hard time.</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>25. Why no new illusions from 50-60?  Group cyclops illusions anyone?</EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed and how about that "make me taller" illusions so that I can see over crowds easier in raids to mouse pick my next target.</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>So in summary very little has improved from back when this list was made.  Meanwhile we've had lots of stealth (undocumented) nerfs to the class since then.  Probally a list for another time or person.</P><p>Message Edited by KaltenAlThor on <span class=date_text>12-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:34 AM</span>

[ScamprinSlippy]

<DIV>I disagree with a lot of those, I think many of them are very minor concerns that will only water down the attention we need to our major concerns.  Some of your posted concerns are pretty uneducated, in particular I think #21 is just plain silly... Savante and Illusory Allies rock my socks off.  Yes, IA is very situational, but why would you NOT cast Savante whenever possible on a raid?  As for #22, we will get our next spell in the expansion, and coercers won't.  Besides Devitalizing Stare pushes our regen well above bard classes, and its stronger than the Coercer equivalent spell line.  Yes they have another regen spell that pushes them ahead of us, but people have got to stop being angry about our regen, its very good, and only a bit behind the coercers.  One of the two enchanter classes has to have better regen at a given time, unless we both have exactly the same spell lines... which would be boring.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I think you hit on one of the big issues in #1, and the Devs have already stated that they are thinking about that problem.  Thing is that they simply can't let our stifles hit epics unless it breaks early or is resisted alot... If they let us use our present stifles as is on an epic... an illusionist and one of other mage could pretty much keep an epic mob stifled for the entire encounter, which would seriously imabalance the game, and make raids boring as all hell.  Interrupts, drains, stuns, and stifles are a tricky mess with epic mobs.  Yeah, they should have thought of this before the combat update, when they gave us epic stifles temporarily, but this is a complex problem, so we have to be patient about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, I want to add to our list of complaints that prismatic havoc should be castable on anyone in raid.  It wouldn't make the spell any stronger, it would just make it an awful lot less frustrating to use on raids.  If the melee classes in your group are all targeting the Main Assist, that means you have to target then, cast havoc, then target something else, and come back to the melee people every 15 seconds or so... very very tiring.  We should be able to target the mobs, and cast on the Main Tank (just like you can if you are in the Main Tank group).</DIV>

[nekocat]

3. Still think our mental dots should do more damage per tick. i think you are still not clear that ... we are not a dps ... we are a supporting class 16. Need a group version of cure arcane. that is priest job actually .... 21. So dam hard to find Savant and Illusionary Allies so dam hard to find. you can make a adept 3 veersion, that is not hard to get a rare from mining and named Illusionary Allies is a great saving spell while taking named , if the priest unable to heal on time, u can help the group get 7-15sec to heal back Savant ....... 30sec ..... long recasting time .... thats a bit useless actually ... 24. Dam Illusionists are great at PvP. all mage must be dead on us , no chance to get win LOL <div></div>

[ScamprinSlippy]

<DIV>"Savant ....... 30sec ..... long recasting time .... thats a bit useless actually ..."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It isn't worth crap in a regular encounter, but in a raid its quite nice.  I believe it reduces mana consumption by about 10% over a long period of time... or something like that anyway.  10% mana reduction is pretty nice for helping out your healers on a raid.  Furthermore, it doesn't break mezz like Devitalizing Stare does.<BR></DIV>

[Nupr]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV><EM>1. Why can't I use my spells like stiffle on epics any longer, the combat revamp was supposed to make it so that I could use my spells on all encounters. </EM></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed, if anything it was made worse by changing some encounters to not allow mez also.</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It is fixed, just not in a way many of us were hoping for.  You can now cast those spells on epics, they just do the power drain which is useless against those targets.  There are also many epics encounters where you can use mez.  There were a couple threads on it not too long ago where some guilds were using it to great success in Ahket and Al'afaz.</P> <P></P> <P></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV><EM> <P><EM>9. I'm having a hard time keeping guardian power from completely running out, not having this issue with other classes.  Enflaming defence (guardian spell) takes to much power and guardian tuants in general seem to take to much power. </EM></P></EM> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Not fixed. We have to keep a bard and an coecer (for the agro transfer too) in our MT group most times to keep the MT in power.</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Tell them to quit whining about the noise mana cloak makes and cast it if they need power.  Or cast Savante whenever it's up.  Not really fair to whine about not being able to keep people with power and then says you rarely use some of our power tools.  Besides, shouldn't that be on a guardian gripe post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall, I'd say we're a lot better than we were pre-DoF.  I still don't think we're where we should be but we've come a long way.  I think you were kinda stretching to get 24 to 25 points and probably would have done better as a top 10.  They definitely need to do something with the power draining of epics or have our power drains do physical damage on those targets instead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are a DPS class.  We are the most utility based of the magical DPS classes but we're still supposed to be DPS.  We have to work the hardest for subpar DPS which is sad.  Needing someone to hit something to do 1800 damage when others can just tap a button and do 4k+ is just kinda silly.  It should be the other way around.  But I won't complain too much about havoc cause usually it gets 4 hits off. </DIV>

[KaltenAlTh]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ScamprinSlippy wrote:<BR> <DIV>Some of your posted concerns are pretty uneducated, in particular I think #21 is just plain silly... Savante and Illusory Allies rock my socks off.  Yes, IA is very situational, but why would you NOT cast Savante whenever possible on a raid?  <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Well right back at you on that "plain silly" comment.  How the hell can "Savante ... rock my socks off", when 99.9% of all fights I'm in; no one in my group runs out of power.  Saving power for someone is pretty usless if they never need any power saved.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>ScamprinSlippy wrote:</DIV> <DIV>But I think you hit on one of the big issues in #1, and the Devs have already stated that they are thinking about that problem.  Thing is that they simply can't let our stifles hit epics unless it breaks early or is resisted alot... If they let us use our present stifles as is on an epic... an illusionist and one of other mage could pretty much keep an epic mob stifled for the entire encounter, which would seriously imabalance the game, and make raids boring as all hell.  Interrupts, drains, stuns, and stifles are a tricky mess with epic mobs.  Yeah, they should have thought of this before the combat update, when they gave us epic stifles temporarily, but this is a complex problem, so we have to be patient about it.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Patient?  I've been patient about this for over 1 year now.  Other then that we agree, they basically didn't revamp right to account for stiffles, stuns ect.... and they should have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>ScamprinSlippy wrote:</DIV> <DIV>Anyway, I want to add to our list of complaints that prismatic havoc should be castable on anyone in raid. </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff6600>Can we all get an Amen to that brothers!  </FONT></STRONG>Not unusual for me to be in a group with 1 healer and 4 other casters on raids making it nearly impossible to use prismatic havoc.  The only reason that's not on my list is back when I wrote this  (ya ya not last year, no clue what I was thinking) I had not noticed it so this didn't make the list back then.  Probally should add that and the Spellshield issue to the list and take out a few 'fluffs'.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P></P> <P></P> <HR> nekocatzz wrote: <P>3. Still think our mental dots should do more damage per tick.<BR>i think you are still not clear that ... we are not a dps ...<BR>we are a supporting class </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>We are part of the mage archtype and the mage archtype main roll is DPS.  We are theirfor a DPS class.  I strongly believe that we shouldn't be doing the exact same damage a say a wizard or in the same manner (sorc=dd, illus=mental dots) but we should be and are a DPS class.  We just are not that good at it.  Their are no 'supporting class' type characters in EQ2 the 'support' roll is spread out across every class.</P> <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Nupren wrote: <P>It is fixed, just not in a way many of us were hoping for.  You can now cast those spells on epics, they just do the power drain which is useless against those targets.  There are also many epics encounters where you can use mez.  There were a couple threads on it not too long ago where some guilds were using it to great success in Ahket and Al'afaz.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ok so I can cast them..... but they do about as much as me chain casting see invis on myself during a raid.  I raid places like Ahket and Al'afaz all the time, I've found a very few encounters where it's useful to mez..... The key words their being "A VERY FEW ENCOUNTERS".  This to me is just not acceptable.  Imagine if the raids where designed so that only a few epic encounters required having healers.  Or if only a few epic encounters required melee'ing the mob.  Silly right?</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> Nupren wrote:</BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think you were kinda stretching to get 24 to 25 points and probably would have done better as a top 10</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ya I was stretching but who wants to make a top 23 or a top 19 list.  Yuck!  That would be like David Letterman having a "top 9 list".  Sometime soon I'll redo it. Probally after this thread matures and I'm bored on another raid.</P><p>Message Edited by KaltenAlThor on <span class=date_text>12-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:10 PM</span>