GamerGod.com; "The Future of Virtual Worlds: Player Freedom"

[KaltenAlTh]

<DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.gamergod.com/article.php?article_id=3132&fansite_id=118" target=_blank>http://www.gamergod.com/article.php?article_id=3132&fansite_id=118</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV>This really speaks to me as an enchanter class.  Recent games including EQ2 are limiting the playstyle freedoms of class types like enchanters to fit their very rigid view of how fights should be won.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQ2 has in the name of 'balancing encounters' (also know as making it easier to program) severly limited or completely removed Root Rot, Crowd Control (mez), Stunning, Feign Death, Kiting, Fear Kiting and Meaningful/Skilled Pulling as good valid and available tactics.  This is even more pronounced in epic encounters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a big fan of EQ2 having more content that uses some of these other methods of fighting.  I really don't like the game being limited to only 1 method to fight, that being lots of healers pump healing into 1 tank.</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV><p>Message Edited by KaltenAlThor on <span class=date_text>12-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:44 AM</span>

[Edyil]

<P>I agree with the premise of the article: There is too much restriction in MMOGs since generation 1.  But that is all I agree with.  The rest of the article is way off base.  </P> <P>The fact of the matter is that players are more restricted now because the player base requires those restrictions.  The problem with MMOG's, including those with PVP, is that players that are griefed have absolutely ZERO recourse or actions to take against the griefer.  ZERO.  If some 12 year old with a hack or who plays the overpowered PVP class just for the sake of griefing another play decides you are his target for the next month, there is nothing anyone can do about it.  If some plat farmer decided to 6-box camp certain mobs at the expense of game play for everyone else on the server, guess what, there is nothing anyone can do about it.  Certain restrictions are required for any sort of fair play.</P> <P>So the article is dead wrong.  Restrictions are in game because the vast majority of the player-base demands it so.  And for them to suggest that PVP is the solution is totally absurd.  They obviously never played on PVP servers where the griefing is ALWAYS ramped.  Ever camp that rare spawn for two months for that quest item just to be PKed while you fight him?  Do you think PKing that guy when you seem him next will make up for the month you lost or the month you have to spend camping the named again?  Try it and see how long you continue to pay that company.  And I havent even mentioned how nobody to date has been able to balance PVP for all classes and maintain a balance between player and Environment.</P>

[MyChatBot]

Slightly off target but related to a comment in the OP, the encounter balancing code is undoubtedly far more sophisticated than the standard agro AI in most games. <div></div>

[SunT]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Edyil wrote:<BR> <P>I agree with the premise of the article: There is too much restriction in MMOGs since generation 1.  But that is all I agree with.  The rest of the article is way off base.  </P> <P>The fact of the matter is that players are more restricted now because the player base requires those restrictions.  The problem with MMOG's, including those with PVP, is that players that are griefed have absolutely ZERO recourse or actions to take against the griefer.  ZERO.  If some 12 year old with a hack or who plays the overpowered PVP class just for the sake of griefing another play decides you are his target for the next month, there is nothing anyone can do about it.  If some plat farmer decided to 6-box camp certain mobs at the expense of game play for everyone else on the server, guess what, there is nothing anyone can do about it.  Certain restrictions are required for any sort of fair play.</P> <P>So the article is dead wrong.  Restrictions are in game because the vast majority of the player-base demands it so.  And for them to suggest that PVP is the solution is totally absurd.  They obviously never played on PVP servers where the griefing is ALWAYS ramped.  Ever camp that rare spawn for two months for that quest item just to be PKed while you fight him?  Do you think PKing that guy when you seem him next will make up for the month you lost or the month you have to spend camping the named again?  Try it and see how long you continue to pay that company.  And I havent even mentioned how nobody to date has been able to balance PVP for all classes and maintain a balance between player and Environment.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The 'Freedom' that needs to be granted is not in the restrictions put into place to stop greifing and pvp.  It is the restrictions put in place to reach some unattainable 'percieved' balance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IMO class vs class Balance should never enter into the mind of a Dev.  They should balance effectivness and fun of the class.  Not equal classes.  Define the role you wish the class to play throughout the levels of gameplay...then make them effective at playing this role and ensure the class is still fun to play at the end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Balance should be achieved by tweaking PVE encounters.  Adding/lowering mob resists/DPS, adding additional mobs, giving/taking/tweaking mob abilities, adjusting environmental effects, etc.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Give each class a prowess and mold the environment to fit them.  I think this is a better MMO Dev strat then the nerf until we are equal scenario.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Vivax]

<DIV>Wanna limit griefing?  One way is to make it cost <EM>major</EM> faction points.  So, for example, if the illusionist you just slashed in two had outstandingly high faction with... Kaladim, then guess what?  You just became KoS to Kaladim.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Run around griefing, and before long the npc's from every city in the game will be KoS to you:  Congrats!  No more mending.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or some such.  There are hundreds of variations which can be run on this theme, but the bottom line, obtained from reading that GamerGod article, is the same:  If killing another player costs enough, then no world needs be the [Removed for Content]-fest in which Shadowbane revels.  (Or did, back when.)</DIV>

[Jaxidi]

<DIV>I have to agree with the OP about the restrictions on things such as fear kiting, root-rotting, etc.  Those such restrictions are going very overboard.  Especially in EQ2 the thing where half of all enchanter spells are useless in raids is a prime example.  I don't know what the answer is but what they have done for the past year certainly isn't a good answer.  On the other hand, I agree that there are a lot of restrictions that are necessary, especially with griefing of players.  I don't pay to play only to have some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] try to ruin my week by griefing me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Edit:  </STRONG>(btw, didn't read the article, just responding to the posts here)</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jaxidian on <span class=date_text>12-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:58 PM</span>

[Edyil]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vivax wrote:<BR> <DIV>Wanna limit griefing?  One way is to make it cost <EM>major</EM> faction points.  So, for example, if the illusionist you just slashed in two had outstandingly high faction with... Kaladim, then guess what?  You just became KoS to Kaladim.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Run around griefing, and before long the npc's from every city in the game will be KoS to you:  Congrats!  No more mending.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or some such.  There are hundreds of variations which can be run on this theme, but the bottom line, obtained from reading that GamerGod article, is the same:  If killing another player costs enough, then no world needs be the [Removed for Content]-fest in which Shadowbane revels.  (Or did, back when.)</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That's a good point.  But don't forget the folks that used every exploit they could (lvl 5 bards charming guards and killing newbs for hours) regardless of reprisals.  The real problem is that, in the end, it is a virtual world with no real rewards but which requires real time and money to play.  If someone steals your time and money by griefing you, you will never get it back.  Never.  Kids think they live forever and don't care.  Us adults know otherwise... time travels all too quickly.</P> <P>So the solution?  Nobody has figured that one out yet.</P>