Should I or Shouldnt I??

[FlameingInfer]

<DIV>Ok, I think I should have read the post's on this forum BEFORE I made an Illu.   Do they suck that bad??  It's like all negitive broken we suck stuff.  Should I just quit now and roll something else??  I'm lvl 18 now.  </DIV>

[Tarkadal]

<P>It's a fun and useful class. Don't listen to the whiners <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>The only thing to worry about is if you plan on powerlevelling to 60 before they fix some things then you may find yourself bored on raids.</P>

[SunT]

<P>It is an exceptional group class.   A pretty good solo class.  A mediocre raid class.  </P> <P>The reason there are so many whiners on this board is we used to be a Hopeless solo class, a Mediocre group class and a usless raid class save for the crack we brought along.</P> <P>Many of us leveled for raid purposes only.</P> <P>Now on raiding we have been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed.  So we whine.</P> <P>The class can be very rewarding.  Leveling from 50-60 was very fun and rewarding for me.  </P> <P>Raiding at 60?  I should have rolled a different class.  </P> <P>It is all about what you want out of the game.</P>

[trenor]

<P>Solo we are fine till 55+ due to the scaling of mobs hit poitn etc.  Grouping you is your bread and butter the things that an enchanter can provide to a group are darn near unmatched.  Raiding me are the most [Removed for Content] class hands down you will seethe frustration.  So basically if you are in the game for the journey there we are fun but once you reach the end game you will want to give your character up.</P> <P> </P> <P>Fiz <----Replaced by a dirge and troubador</P>

[SunT]

We are maybe the best duo partner as well.  Duo/Trio is a great way to explore and exp.

[Barobra]

<DIV>We rock in heroic encounters. Trio groups we also excel in. You get yourself in with a bruiser/zerk and fury and your doing some fast exp. Only thing we REALLY have anything to really whine about is raids. So if you dont care about raids then dont worry about it. But at level 18 its kind of hard to say if you are going to raid or not at level 60. :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Strewth]

<DIV>Never read the SOE boards before rolling a toon, nothing but negative nellies on it, and for all those that think Illusionists don't have a place in a raid, we in Allure never go without one, what does an Illusionist bring to a raid ? let me tell you...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A nifty wee 30 second buff that at master pumps up all casting skills by 51, and adds 136 int, castable every minute and a bit (no more fizzling heals)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A very nice power reduction spell, about 48% at master for 30 seconds on a 3 minute timer, uberly usefull towards the end of a hard fight for the healers and nukers</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dyna, drop that on your brigands (or any other poison dipper, but briggies are the best), it proc's off there poison dots, good solid constant stream of damage</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mezz, not going to give any raid secrets away, but there are a lot of encounters where mezz makes life oh so easy (we get a master2 choice on our primary mezz btw)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AE stifle, and before you go off about how useless it is on true epics, it's very nice on the pull to be able to reduce the first 6 seconds of big damage from the adds that come with bosses, buys time to stabalise the tank</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Illusiory Allies, this little baby is raid friendly, but wont give anything away</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Group resist buff, say no more</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Group int and wis buff, say no more</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Group power tap, it's like having a second crack buff</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AE interupt works on true epics</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mana cloak, sure coercers get it too, but so what</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am both an MT Zerker and an Illusionist, sometimes I'll 2 box on raids just for crack and so I can swap from the MT role to our other MT (yes, we use different MT's for different encounters) and main on my Illusionist as required. Yes power drains have been nerfed and for good reason, same with stuns, we used to trivialise all the T5 raid content and Contested mobs with it back in the day, it was a joke how easy that stuff was.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's about how well you know your toon, and how well you play it, and before you flame me, no, Allure aren't Malice nor are we NPU, we never claim to be, but we are a hardcore raiding guild with a large player base, we cater for both the casual and harcore (not easy but we found the balance) and do all the hard T6 stuff with the rest of them, our reputation on Najena speaks for it's self.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some equate being in 'group 1' on a raid as being a desired class, rubbish, it's about teamwork. There are times when we do have little Mortle in Group1 for various reasons, but there are times when we'll have a coercer or trouby, dirge, warlock, conji, swashy, necro amongst others in Group1 as well. Raiding is not cookie cutter templates anymore, you have to be dynamic and adaptive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes, I genuinely enjoy playing both my mains in all of the (what there is of it) T6 content, raid and group. If you think soloing sucks as an Illusionist, try it with a guardian, poor guys take 4 weeks to kill something that takes us 2 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[ryuk]

<DIV>Heres my random 2 cents.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mez: Thier great for stealing names from stupid campers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Btw Illusionists are the best.</DIV>

[trenor]

<P>well i agree we have some spells but you have a better chance woth the dynamics of our spells than seeing god of us being in a grp useful to use them.  There is not going to be an illusionist in the mt grp it will either be a dirge or coercer.  Why agro management and regen you dont have the agro management period.  You will be in what my guild token the term fo called grp [Removed for Content].  </P> <P>Illusionists can do extreme damage.  If thier are non epic mobs.  If thier are epic mobs and you have a bruiser you wont parse in the top 5 but you will be tier 3 dps id say.  The problem is you will not be in a t6 raid in the mt group.  Meaning you won't have a mt to worry about mana for the extra healers .  You will only have one healer and these are not cross raid spells.  There in lies the problem.  Not cross raid spells.   Dynamism procs 33% of the time on all hostile spells.  A great spell and the truly valuable one.  mana cloak-You are not in the mt grp won't need it.  Savante great idea but once again be better if ya could x raid it and give it to the mt grp but ya can't.   </P> <P>Yes, we do have alot of good spells that are meant for the mt grp.   Specifically designed it looks like.  Since you gave other classes use of our primary skills and better benefits we aren't there anymore.  Since this is the case.  There neeeds to be a better evaluation of what exactly our role is.</P> <P>I asssumed </P>

[Strewth]

<DIV>What is it with people needing to be in group1 to feel as though there useful ?? If your guild Never uses an Illusionist in group1 then clearly you always have the perfect balance of classes on a raid ? Get with the program, the Allure video here <A href="http://rapidshare.de/files/9349173/Allure-GatesAA.wmv.html" target=_blank><FONT color=#c8c1b5>http://rapidshare.de/files/9349173/Allure-GatesAA.wmv.html</FONT></A> shows that some of the strats we use rely on mezz, and if you want the best mezz get an Illusionist...For half the raid there was an Illusionist in group1... But hey, what would Allure know about raiding right ?</DIV>

[Barobra]

People want to be god like. Lots of whiny people unfortunatley. I have no problem with my class. I think it needs some tweaking but alot of classes do, not just us. <p>Message Edited by Barobrain on <span class=date_text>12-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:25 AM</span>

[Tuleri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Barobrain wrote:<BR> People want to be god like. Lots of whiny people unfortunatley. I have no problem with my class. I think it needs some tweaking but alot of classes do, not just us. <P>Message Edited by Barobrain on <SPAN class=date_text>12-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:25 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>On Heroics, soloing and PvP I am totally satisfied.  </P> <P>However, agains epics all of our main spells are useless or very nerfed.  A spell or 2 not working is fine...an entire hotkey bar is out of control.  Our main function is CC..bruisers, rangers and a few others have better EPIC CC then we do...plus they do better DPS</P>

[trenor]

<P>So its ok for 3/4 of your spells not to work on epics.  Hmm lets see if they made 3/4 of the guardian taunt spells not work on epics.  Then you'd think it was ok correct!</P> <P> </P> <P>Fiz</P>

[zit]

i prefer healing spells stop working against damage done by epics.  :smileytongue:

[Belizarius]

<DIV>The class definitely has it's problems, and this is where people come to point out those problems.  It can be a bit depressing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It doesn't feel that way in-game, except as mentioned on quite a few raid level encounters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you spend a lot of time in a less than full group, you will feel very useful indeed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You will need to learn the right and wrong times to use mez, and your groupmates will need to learn how to coordinate with that.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Belizarius on <span class=date_text>12-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:43 PM</span>

[MyChatBot]

<div></div>I have always understood these posts, and used to share the sentiment in them. But after playing mmorgs for possibly longer than many eq2 players have been alive, I can tell you this; what comes around goes around. I played a mage in EQ1, from day 1 literally. They got nerfed, and nerfed, to the point that nobody gave a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about them at all. Pets were difficult to control and were generally forbidden, no ice spells, vastly inferior damage to wizards (man were they arrogant about that), no crowd control, no signficant buffing (ds was nice); they just didn't have a single ability that was considered a must. I stuck with it. Guess what...mage stuff still dropped off of raid mobs, and there was nobody around to get it. I stayed quiet, collected my gear, watched my stats go through the roof, toughed out some boring raids, and off to the side, mastered the class and levelled. All the time, Verant/Sony worked on how to turn this highly potential class into a necessary ingredient. In the end, I wound up with a character that could solo in the planes and was considered a must have for any raid. All the new summoned stuff, improved DPS, high end debuffs, CoH, mages turned into a sought after class, and I was at the top of it. Same with City of Heroes. I played a scrapper. Oh my lord the way people whined; I never understood it. Just because I couldn't outdamage the obviously overpowered and soon to be nerfed Blaster, people said I was useless. If you play CoH now, scrappers are gods and everybody that started a blaster cries that "it's not like when the game first started".Funny thing is, in both cases, I never had a problem with either of the classes. Sure there were things I thought could be changed, but you pick it, you stick it, and in every case it's paid off. Don't give up on illusionists, they'll come around. For the time, let tanks and healers enjoy. It'll change. Remember this post; there will come a time when guilds need more chanters, and if you're one of the old ones and know what you're doing, you'll sit right at the top of the game. <div></div><p>Message Edited by MyChatBot on <span class=date_text>12-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:14 AM</span>

[Tinnaley]

<DIV>Really, the question here is, what are you looking for in a character? Illusionist's can be a fun and rewarding class to play. Yes, we have seen the ole nerf bat swing a lot, but we still have very useful abilities. If you are looking to play a mage, here are a few hints about our seperate abilities. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want insane damage, roll a warlock or a wizard. The Wizzy's and Warlock in my guild pull aggro more than any other class on raids and groups. Their damage is sick, seriously! They also get some GREAT roots, which are extremely useful in any situation!</DIV> <DIV>If you still want insane damage, but with a little added support, role a Conjurer or Necromancer. These guys pull aggro regularly as well, while adding some great buffs to the groups. Conjurers have a buff that adds to the MT's hate, which is pretty useful in a raiding situation. These classes rely on pets to tank and damage, not solely on themselves. </DIV> <DIV>If you want some utility, decent damage, and crowd control abilities, then roll an Illusionist or Coercer. Coercer's have the ability to charm enemies, and they have some sick abilities. (ie... their reflection spell that is being used to pwn the orange Epics) Illusionist's have a personae (which does not hit Epics therefore is useless in raid situation since you are giving up your concentration slots). However, they do have some crazy damage and crowd control abilities. When we raid in Silent City, Living Tombs, Shimmering Citadel, Poets etc. I easily parse in the top 5. I have mostly Master 1 spells, excluding our single burst damage spell. The splitpaw spell you were given at level 35 is on the same timer, but inflicts about 3x the damage, so I prefer to use it. Now, when I say I parse in the top 5 I am referring to the trash mobs we go through to get to the main boss. When we hit the main boss, I get to take a break from my insane damaging. Our spells seldom land on Epics, and when they do, the mob has to be debuffed and debuffed again for them to hit. I am mostly in the DPS groups for my regin which seems to be very useful. Our scout/mage group is able to do most, if not almost all, the damage in the fights while still maintaing their power. Using Devitalizing Stare, Insight, Savante, and the occasional Mana Cloak proves to be extremely useful for the raids.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, really it is a matter of what you want out of your mage. Do I recommend an illusionist? You know it!!! Do I think we have some issues that seriously need some looking into? You know it!!! Every class has issues. You will find gripes, moans, and the favorite "SoE nerfed me I suck" on any class board you visit. You just have to make the most out of what you are given to work with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hopefully this offers you some insight (Insight is always good <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> into the mage classes and their abilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS.... Offering helpful suggestions to players who are trying to learn their (our) class is a good thing. You can provide useful tips without giving away your strategies, damaging your uber reputation, or God forbid, tooting your own horn again. LOL   I am in no way attacking you, as you have some very good and valid points! I just had to /giggle at the posts, since they seemed like an Allure (?) advertisement more than a post intended to help other Chanty's. My best to you all <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff00cc size=4>Tinnaley</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff00cc size=4><Fortitude> Kithicor Server</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff00cc size=4>60 Illusionist/55 Jeweler</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff00cc size=4><A href="http://www.fortitude-guild.com" target=_blank>www.fortitude-guild.com</A></FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff00cc size=4></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>

[jun]

<P>Lol... again, this is probably the hardest question to answer.  Truthfully, it all depends on you and what you want in your game play.  The abilities/roles of the Illusionist may not be 'up-to-speed' with what some gamers who chose the class feel they should be, but its all really relevant to their game play.  If you are a 'friends/casual' guild gamer and just wanna goof off and explore... or do some periodic senseless xp grinds, you will NEVER feel unwanted.</P> <P>Raids are different animals... some people on this board don't think very much of our skillsets and consider us utterly useless in raids.  I too for a short period of time fell into that assumption, but have since been on a number of raids and do not feel the same.  Raids and your effectiveness on them is a series of random variations at best.  Some nights, you feel as if you can go to sleep and no one would notice.  Other nights, if you hadn't been there, things would have surely worked out differently (bad in most cases).  It all depends on your skills in the abilities you DO have.</P> <P>In general, Illusionists are control freaks.  I assume we are supposed to be something akin to a very intellegent manipulator.  We are not really supposed to be able to deal massive amounts of damage personally, we 'manipulate' the abilities of others to generate the damage (Havoc, Dynamism, Haste) and so on.  We control the occurance of events by means of mind/body (more mind/Coercers charm) with our stuns/stifles and mez's.</P> <P>We use deceptions in the form of Illusory Allies, Personaes, and Constructs to confuse and bewilder our enemies in order to furthur our mission of controlling them by simply using tactful diversions.  We have the ability to take away their power, lower their resists where we are most powerful (mental/magical), and redistribute power to our own group members.</P> <P>Lol... for some reason, adding to our group's intellegence stat has never really proved to be a beneficial ability considering that people still do some pretty dumb things (break mez's) and so on.  Overall, I thoroughly enjoy my Illusionist and thrive to prove to each group I join what an asset I can be if used correctly.  That is one aspect that seems truely more challenging than actually controlling mobs... and one that I tend to enjoy more than dislike.</P> <P>I hope this helps a little in your decission-making process.... best of luck which ever way you decide to go.</P> <P> </P> <P>VR,</P> <P>Kailen - 60 Illusionist Faydark</P>

[Fizwi]

To the OP: if you're still hesitant, you can wait a month until they revamp the 1-20 class system.  The new system will help you get an idea for the flavor of the class a little sooner.  I know I hate getting all the way to 25-30 and deciding I dislike the class I was trying out!To Tinnaley: always nice to see a new Illusionist around here!  Welcome!<div></div>

[jun]

<P>"What is it with people needing to be in group1 to feel as though there useful ?? If your guild Never uses an Illusionist in group1 then clearly you always have the perfect balance of classes on a raid ?"</P> <P> </P> <P>Strewth,</P> <P>While I agree 'fundamentally' that Illusionists have their uses, I doubt very seriously that the folks in this forum feel that an Illusionist is a MUST for the proverbial 'Grp 1' spot.  Personally, I wouldn't care if I were in Grp 4 every raid, providing of course that a few of my spells were 'raid-friendly' and could be cast upon certain roles the raid has defined (MT).</P> <P>The reason Grp 1 is so controversial in this forum is because everyone associates it with the raid's MT and direct resources (Cleric, Fury) or whatever your raidleader has designated for beneficial reasons.  I guess it all comes full circle back to the conventional raid tactics, get a solid MT, plenty of healers and all the rest are accessories and additional DPS.  Well, I realize I am an accessory and have no hard feelings about that.</P> <P>BUT, I do feel the best use for my abilities are to 'help' the tank maintain his position and control over X mob.  Something I cannot 'fully' achieve from outside his group.  Sure I can augment other groups with the same beneficial spells, but what good are those if Grp 1 cannot sustain its mission/role?  None.  Why would anyone in the raid (other than an SA) want to be able to maintain or pull agro from the MT?  Seems sort of counter-productive.</P> <P>SOE has seen fit to reduce the number of spell effects we can achieve against a named epic mob, so that pretty much limits us to a few accessory abilities (Dynamism, Havoc, Savante, Insight, Mana shield)  Only one of these are truely Raid-Friendly.  Havoc has to have a catalyst if you are not in Grp 1.  Sevante/Insight/Shield are group only... so there you have it.</P> <P>I think that is a basic, reasonable understanding of why the 'Grp 1' scenario appears frequently in this forum.  Its not so we can feel like the *most important* person in the raid, but it seems more logical that would would provide our greatest benefits there.  I'm am not saying we are useless, but I will admit we have some fixes due with regards to these issues... and definately need to see the shackles fall off during raids.</P> <P>That you and your guild have discovered some nifty tactics for deploying/leveraging the skillsets for Illusionists, I have absolutely no doubt, and enjoy hearing about it.  I hope you and your guild continued success with your tactics.  On the other hand, no every guild consists of your specific raid numbers or rolecall of character sets.  So, with that in mind, a tactic you feel is extremely efficient, may not be a possibility for other guilds.</P> <P>I do like that you are willing to relate instances where Illusionists are very useful in your raid environment.  Keep up the good work!</P> <P> </P> <P>VR,</P> <P>Kailen - 60 Illusionist Faydark</P>

[Barobra]

Stick me in group 2 3 4 I dont care. Make me the mana [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] I dont care. I could care less about debuffs or anything else. I really want to get back to the eq1 roots where mez was a must in an encounter. Plane of fear zone in style ..... I was a ranger in eq1 and im like...no way im picking a ranger in eq2 so I thought an enchanter HAD to be a great pick since they were so valuable in eq1.... what the heck happend? <span>:smileyhappy:</span> <div></div>

[FlameingInfer]

<DIV>WoW guys!  Thanks for all the great info!   I think im going to stick with it reguardless of how we raid or what ever.  I just like the fact that I can mez things.  But as a Berzerker I can also understand how dificult it must be for other classes not to use AOE's on the mobs while they are mezzed.  alot of my abilitys as a zerker are AOE.    So far this class has taken alot of work for me to play and I have died many times.   I have only played tank classes since I started this game so this is all new to me and quite fun because I have to think about what I'm doing and going to do next,  With a Tank class its is really easy to play, pull taunt, ca ca ca, taunt, ca ca ca taunt, cacaca taunt cacaca dead LOL.    there isnt much to it.     </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Reguards to other mage classes,</DIV> <DIV>Wizzy/warlock- I dont think is for me,  I really dont want to just do uber damage and pull aggro, kinda soudns like button mashing like a tank class</DIV> <DIV>Necro/conj- these classes seem pretty cool, if i do make another finger wiggler I may try one of these</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, Thanks so much for all the great input.  You guys will be seeing much more of me!</DIV>