Are 'chanters broken on raids?

[Belizarius]

<DIV>Judge for yourself.</DIV> <DIV>Got some figures from a recent Trenda'loz kill by our guild.  The percentages are amount of damage done vs mob's total health.</DIV> <DIV>This is a very straight forward fight, against a single epic drakota.  Nothing to mez, stun or stifle in the instance.</DIV> <DIV>Illusionist's role consisted of Dismay on the epic, then pure DPS.  The fight did not really last long enough for power regen to be an issue.</DIV> <DIV>My DPS strategy was to maintain both single target DoTs (Adept I), both AE DoTs (Adept III), prismatic strife (Master 2) on a melee, fleeting thoughts, construct (Adept I).  Didn't seem to have much time for nukes between all that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(60 Necro) + Pets 21%<BR>(59 Rng) 15.05%<BR>(60 Rng) 11.34%<BR>(50 Swash) 10.61%<BR>(58 Zerk) 7.49%<BR>(55 Rng) 6.35%<BR>(53 Zerk) 5.48%<BR>(51 Illu) + Pet 4.27%<BR>(59 Pal, MT) 3.75%<BR>(54 Pal) 3.66%<BR>(59 Coerc) 2.3%<BR>(55 Fury) 1.96%<BR>(54 Zerk) 1.74%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes it's just a single sample, I admit.</DIV> <DIV>I suppose I could do slightly better if I also melee'd, and also squeezed off a nuke here and there.</DIV> <DIV>But basically, I was struggling to out-dps our Pallies (who were either tanking or helping with heals), and was mostly out-dps'd by our 'zerkers (I think one of them may have been sleeping).  The Fury was <EM>mainly</EM> on heals btw.<BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Belizarius on <SPAN class=date_text>12-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:45 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Belizarius on <span class=date_text>12-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:32 PM</span>

[Etillchou]

well nothing new here.Illusionist first of all aren't a dps class.. And yes that zerker was sleeping if not simply afk and that damage was his auto attack <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Are we that bad dps then? Well hmmz the damage from prismatic havoc and dynamism mostly isn't counted towards our dps so it is a little less bad then it looks like but only a little.But main problem for me isn't that we have a lower dps. We're a support class, not a dps class. My problem is that we have no spell what so ever apart from dismay (wonder if that one even works) that is usefull on an epic raid.We are a support class but against a pure epic mob we can only do dps. Nothing else. That's broken.. without a doubt

[trenor]

<P>Love to say we weren't.  We are only really effective in raids in a specific group.  Our guild likes to call it grp [Removed for Content].  It includes a troubador, enchanter, wizard one healer, and one tank. </P> <P>The troub plays his proc song on our spellls and the wiz drops icebound.  Only group we are effective in on raids.  This is only if there are no real epic mobs.  In which case you can really just go afk comeback in 5 minutes after your cigarette and see what happened.  The list of spells that will hit an epic mob is 2 dd spells for 500 damage. 3 dot, One of which is psychotic spectrum (has a stumble componant that no one has ever seen work) for 200 and 2 for under 100.  Dismay which no one has shown me a parse showing any difference whatsoever in the effect when its not used.  Savante-Can't really complain about this one but since we are ingrp [Removed for Content] we never run out of mana.  Mana cloak cant be cast cross raid and once again group [Removed for Content] doesn't run out of mana.  Prismatic chaos-A great spell however it needs a catylyst every tim ya cast the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing you have to switch targets from the main assist to your grp tank cast and back a pain in the butt.  I also was lucky enough to be assigned subjugation gear from a couple of the uiber mobd we have been hitting in raid area and now have about +15 subjugation.  This gear hasn't changed the resists at all as far as I can tell.  I gave up other fabled to equip this and loss styats that i should have kept to boost my subjugation for no reason so do not do it until it is fixed.</P> <P> </P> <P>I still love my enchanter i just hate raiding with him but I love my guild so I will still go until they ask me to sit out casue another dirge joins the guild and makes 60 and its better for the guild as a whole for them to take him.</P> <P> </P> <P>Fiz</P>

[Tuleri]

<DIV>Group with a Bruiser or Zerker..coordinate Pris Havoc casts on them and your DPS will boost quite a bit</DIV>

[Fizwi]

<div></div>I find that it's possible to alternate your beam nuke with pretty much everything else without missing much.  Below is a "timeline" for a DPSing enchanter (there might be a more ideal order, but this one is pretty good...).  A .<b>5 sec global cooldown</b> between spells is included (if I'm a <b>[Removed for Content] </b>and the cooldown is different...well then back to the drawing board!).<font size="2"><font face="Courier New" size="2">Spell:    Fleeting => Beam =>Construct => Beam => Prismatic => Beam => devour => burst => Beam => Shower => Beam => Spectrum => BeamTime(sec.):0..........1.5....3............5... ....6.5..........9.......10.5......12.......13.5.. ..15........17.5....19..........21.5</font><font size="1"></font>At this point you wait .5 sec as Prismatic refreshes (or given human error you don't wait at all),  and you have to start juggling refreshes.  Note that the only damage spell I haven't worked in is Embolism...but it's coming!<font face="Courier New" size="2">Prismatic => Beam => Embolism => Beam => Spectrum => Beam => devour => beam => burst => beam => prismatic => spectrum23.5.........26......27.5........30......3 1.5........34......35.5......37......38.5.....40.. ....41.5.........44......</font><font size="1"></font>You lose a half second here and there in the second line -- if you're running behind just cut a beam.But anyway I think you get the idea.  Just for kicks let's calculate the DPS over 45 seconds...these numbers are for around 400 INT and about Adept 3 quality...they are NOT 100% ACCURATE.  Mileage may vary for INT, quality, debuffs, RNG...also I don't have the better figures for brain burst or psychotic spectrum.  <b>Just for fun, folks.</b>Beam: 10 x 575Prismatic:  9 x 700Devour Hope: 7 ticks x 120Brain Burst: 7 ticks x 140, + 500Shower: 6 ticks x 260Spectrum: 8 ticks x 110Embolism: 1 x 375Construct: 60 DPS(?) x 40 secondsDynamism = (32 total spells (prismatic counting 3x, spectrum and embolism 2x) x 33%) x 27022385 total damage/ 45 sec = <b>497.4 DPS</b> on a single targetOnce again these numbers are very rough and just for discussion...please don't use this as "proof" for anything!</font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Fizwick on <span class=date_text>12-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:34 AM</span>

[SunT]

I can maintain just over 300DPS on a single target Epic most times.  Never been able to hit the 500 you are looking at unles it is a group.

[Fizwi]

Yeah, the number will probably be lower for a number of reasons:- raid mob resists- the casting of other spells for whatever reason (savante, mana cloak, stuns/stifles)- INT/quality differences with the listed numbers- errors in my own calculations regarding the global cooldown (queueing vs. clicking difference?)Out of curiousity, what do people parse the Construct's DPS at?  In my above example it accounts for around 10% of our total DPS, so my guesstimate could add further inaccuracy.Anyway...the main point of my post was not an actual DPS metric, but rather an example of how to sequence your spells efficiently for max DPS.<div></div>

[SunT]

80 -100, have not looked in a long time, perhaps not since 60.

[Manyak]

<DIV>Basically the strategy i use is that i try to get as many dynamism procs as possible, while still waiting for that extra proc on Burst. I usually just watch the timer on Burst so that i time the casting of that spell with the proc, this way in less than a second its possible to get 2 dynamism procs + 300? dmg + 100 dmg. If you can keep successfully timing that spell perfectly, it should give u a slight bonus to ur DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the record, I usually average about 450DPS on the easy raid mobs. On the hard ones, the fight usualy lasts long enough for me to run out of mana if i burn it, so my DPS is lowered becasue im always casting siphon self and dev stare.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One tip i can give ya for increasing ur DPS in raids is to maintain Devour Hope and Brainburst constantly on 2 seperate mobs. The reuse/duration timers are JUST timed right so that if u never delay when casting them, u can keep 2 copies of them up. This goes for Dismay as well btw. So if theres more than one mob in the encounter, keeping these DoTs on 2 mobs should increase ur DPS some.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, another good idea is to make a macro for ur prismatic havoc. The macro should be this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/target <name of melee in group></DIV> <DIV>/useability Prismatic Havoc</DIV> <DIV>/assist <name of MA></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This automatically switches to some melee in the group, casts prismatic havoc, and then goes back to the mob that you were attacking. Makes everything nice and easy so u dont waste time switching targets and stuff.</DIV>

[SunT]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DaMutation wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, another good idea is to make a macro for ur prismatic havoc. The macro should be this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/target </DIV> <DIV>/useability Prismatic Havoc</DIV> <DIV>/assist </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This automatically switches to some melee in the group, casts prismatic havoc, and then goes back to the mob that you were attacking. Makes everything nice and easy so u dont waste time switching targets and stuff.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Excellent idea.<BR>

[Padi]

<DIV>I've been able to maintain 400-700 dps on single target epics with a bruiser.  Been the top DPSer a few times on different raids.  You just have to play with a bruiser who is able to coordinate with you properly.  Bewarned, you will draw agro if you start too early or do it too often.</DIV>

[Belizarius]

<P>Good feedback.</P> <P>Construct I'm getting about 60-80dps from, it's only the T5 one and Adept I.</P> <P>Agree with the comments, that I'd rather our key spell lines were more useful against epics, but for now DPS is all we have to play with at events like this.</P> <P>I didn't have dynamism on myself this time, had it on the MT, and hasted the scouts in my group instead.</P> <P>I miscalculated the Necro's total contribution btw, it was actually about 21%.</P> <P>I take it your DPS with bruiser is due to extra prismatic procs on multi-attack CAs?  My partner plays a swashy, they also get multi-attack CAs I  should try to get that working better.</P> <p>Message Edited by Belizarius on <span class=date_text>12-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:36 PM</span>

[Padi]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Belizarius wrote:<BR> <P>Good feedback.</P> <P>Construct I'm getting about 60-80dps from, it's only the T5 one and Adept I.</P> <P>Agree with the comments, that I'd rather our key spell lines were more useful against epics, but for now DPS is all we have to play with at events like this.</P> <P>I didn't have dynamism on myself this time, had it on the MT, and hasted the scouts in my group instead.</P> <P>I miscalculated the Necro's total contribution btw, it was actually about 21%.</P> <P>I take it your DPS with bruiser is due to extra prismatic procs on multi-attack CAs?  My partner plays a swashy, they also get multi-attack CAs I  should try to get that working better.</P> <P>Message Edited by Belizarius on <SPAN class=date_text>12-08-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:36 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Yes, the extra procs are from crushing blows and savage blows mostly.  Crushing blows (hope the mob isn't crush immune) hits 10 times.  That makes for 6k bombs every time it's up.  Savage blows is a multi strike AE.  Not sure on the specifics.  Any one knew to the trick, I let them know to turn off auto attack when I start casting (I have a macro to /t %t Havok inc or something like that).  With an alert bruiser, it works almost every time.</P> <DIV><BR></DIV>

[Belizarius]

<P>10 times? omg yes I would be scared of aggro.</P> <P>Swashies just get double and triple attack CAs</P>