Consensus ?

[strangess]

<DIV>So, I've been skimming illusionist/coercer threads a few times the last couple of weeks, and I'm wondering if I have the right idea....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The main problems with the illusionist:</DIV> <DIV>- is that they have one (maybe a few more ?) buffs that are useful for a raid; otherwise, they do nothing because EQ2 makes extra traffic control unnecessary _except_ when a small group is taking on stuff over the ability of its main cluster to kill quickly. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-they cannot aspire to solo as quickly as other classes, nor gear up to take on really difficult solo encounters as many other classes may</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-their own traffic control does not work in such a manner as to make soloing relatively weaker groups a sure thing</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-they have stuns/stifles as a hallmark ability, but not to a degree that adding an illusionist is necessary in order to "cover" these things with the party's abilities (and stun doesn't work on epics, see "lack of use in raids")</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-the relative utility of the pet compared to EQ1 is a lot lower (plus the graphic shouldn't be the same as for a magician pet) ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-root effects are important to soloability and break so much that it is frustrating to have to use less efficient tactics than the ones which a reliable root would enable</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-the constant drumbeat of complaints about the class hasn't spurred the developers into moving as fast as would be reasonable, because since hardly anyone plays them, hardly anyone will be pleased by fixing them (never minding that this is blaming the victim) with the added ignominious side effect that players who haven't studied the issue at all may assume illusionists are _useless_, rather than "constrained and less than perfectly efficient, but still with a (narrow) niche to fill."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So....it is fair to say that if </DIV> <DIV>-you like the stun-heavy style for a robe wearer and don't mind nibbling stuff to death over about 5-10x the time required by another robe wearer when soloing</DIV> <DIV>- you appreciate a less aggressive style for taking on the mobs (rather than AE'ing them to death and root/nuking them down, praying the root doesn't break or an add doesn't jump you while kiting and you die), even if this means you don't level as fast as a warlock or conjuror, </DIV> <DIV>-you will be doing a lot of grouping with 2-3 other chars, which will usually be 2 warlock/conjurors and a healer or rogue, and will thus have a function for non-epic encounters with them and in fact (if you play attentively and are committed to learning) be fairly if quietly useful to them....</DIV> <DIV>-you're willing to forgive the designers for blocking the path to more efficient tactics that would tantalize some folks</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>then a player (ok,me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) would probably be happy with an illusionist ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Opinions ?</DIV> <DIV>        strangess</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[drewz21]

<P>I will second this post!!!  I've played for 42 levels and since LU16 I've had to pretty much retire my Illusionist for all the reasons mentioned here.  I would love to play him again though.</P> <P>Devs please look at this post and respond!  Please!</P> <P>Thank you.</P>

[Tarkadal]

<DIV>Not only should you be happy, you will probably be playing the class that the other players in your play group will get hooked on playing with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You might also be pleasantly surprised at the soloing if you can upgrade your persona to Adept III.</DIV>

[jun]

" <DIV>So, I've been skimming illusionist/coercer threads a few times the last couple of weeks, and I'm wondering if I have the right idea....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The main problems with the illusionist:</DIV> <DIV>- is that they have one (maybe a few more ?) buffs that are useful for a raid; otherwise, they do nothing because EQ2 makes extra traffic control unnecessary _except_ when a small group is taking on stuff over the ability of its main cluster to kill quickly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-they cannot aspire to solo as quickly as other classes, nor gear up to take on really difficult solo encounters as many other classes may</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-their own traffic control does not work in such a manner as to make soloing relatively weaker groups a sure thing</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-they have stuns/stifles as a hallmark ability, but not to a degree that adding an illusionist is necessary in order to "cover" these things with the party's abilities (and stun doesn't work on epics, see "lack of use in raids")</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-the relative utility of the pet compared to EQ1 is a lot lower (plus the graphic shouldn't be the same as for a magician pet) ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-root effects are important to soloability and break so much that it is frustrating to have to use less efficient tactics than the ones which a reliable root would enable</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-the constant drumbeat of complaints about the class hasn't spurred the developers into moving as fast as would be reasonable, because since hardly anyone plays them, hardly anyone will be pleased by fixing them (never minding that this is blaming the victim) with the added ignominious side effect that players who haven't studied the issue at all may assume illusionists are _useless_, rather than "constrained and less than perfectly efficient, but still with a (narrow) niche to fill."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So....it is fair to say that if</DIV> <DIV>-you like the stun-heavy style for a robe wearer and don't mind nibbling stuff to death over about 5-10x the time required by another robe wearer when soloing</DIV> <DIV>- you appreciate a less aggressive style for taking on the mobs (rather than AE'ing them to death and root/nuking them down, praying the root doesn't break or an add doesn't jump you while kiting and you die), even if this means you don't level as fast as a warlock or conjuror,</DIV> <DIV>-you will be doing a lot of grouping with 2-3 other chars, which will usually be 2 warlock/conjurors and a healer or rogue, and will thus have a function for non-epic encounters with them and in fact (if you play attentively and are committed to learning) be fairly if quietly useful to them....</DIV> <DIV>-you're willing to forgive the designers for blocking the path to more efficient tactics that would tantalize some folks</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>then a player (ok,me <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0>) would probably be happy with an illusionist ?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Wow... there are so many things in that post I would like to comment on in depth, its driving me nuts.  However, I already have too many threads to monitor with really good conversations (not to say this wouldn't be one... quite the opposite).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>"is that they have one (maybe a few more ?) buffs that are useful for a raid; otherwise, they do nothing because EQ2 makes extra traffic control unnecessary _except_ when a small group is taking on stuff over the ability of its main cluster to kill quickly."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Yes, we have some issues raid-wise that need to be addressed.  But, since you are just starting out, I don't see where this is really a concern for you at this time.  Hopefully, by the time you do reach raid status, some of the issues will be resolved.  CC is often an unnecessary utility in a group that has above-average DPS against below-average/average opposition.  That doesn't necessarily negate the need for CC abilities.  Especially in zones where adds are common place and your group is sub par with the level acceptance for said zone.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>This type of comparison is just as easy to do when determining the worth of {insert a class} in just about any scenario.  Why do you need a melee range dps in a group of wizi's capable of temporarily rooting and blasting 4 or 5 ice comets on a single mob?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>"they cannot aspire to solo as quickly as other classes, nor gear up to take on really difficult solo encounters as many other classes may"</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Purely based on individual performance, and spell upgrades would be the safest answer to this.  I believe I and others don't seem to have an issue solo'n our characters to our own satisfaction in one form or another.  Is it phenominally easy?  Nope, but it is comparable across the board.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>"their own traffic control does not work in such a manner as to make soloing relatively weaker groups a sure thing"</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I am very hesitant to give weight to this view.  I typically target group encounters for xp purposes based on the capabilities of my crowd control (CC) abilities.  Nothing is a sure thing in this game.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>"they have stuns/stifles as a hallmark ability, but not to a degree that adding an illusionist is necessary in order to "cover" these things with the party's abilities (and stun doesn't work on epics, see "lack of use in raids")"</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>The same assumptions can be interchanged with just about any class.  Replace a guardian/berserker for a ranger/assassin.  If you have enough of another class (healers/nukers) the feasability is there.  Again, raid roles/uses are an area where we need work/revision... not necessarily a concern at lower levels of game play.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>"the relative utility of the pet compared to EQ1 is a lot lower (plus the graphic shouldn't be the same as for a magician pet) ?"</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Are you referring to the invisible pet the Enchanter gets... or a dire charmed pet?  Two totally different things.  By comparison on any scale you choose, the enchanter (EQ1) is vastly superior to the Illusionist (EQ2) by far.  It doesn't matter if you are looking utility-wise, or DPS-wise.  I don't care if Spellshield was reflecting 40k damage in its original release form.  I would take a charmed, buffed (lol and snared) Mountain Pooka pet ANY DAY!  They were able to quad hit for 4k+ buffed and hasted :p</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>"root effects are important to soloability and break so much that it is frustrating to have to use less efficient tactics than the ones which a reliable root would enable"</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Purely based on individual play style.  Some people prefer the use of root over, stun/mez style fighting... others don't.  Rooting simply meant you can go nuts with your DPS (as it is) and load up with the works .vs moderating and extending the duration of the encounter.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>"the constant drumbeat of complaints about the class hasn't spurred the developers into moving as fast as would be reasonable, because since hardly anyone plays them, hardly anyone will be pleased by fixing them (never minding that this is blaming the victim) with the added ignominious side effect that players who haven't studied the issue at all may assume illusionists are _useless_, rather than "constrained and less than perfectly efficient, but still with a (narrow) niche to fill.""</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I know I have posted numerous threads regarding similar concerns.  Read some of the other threads for related views on these issues and decide where you stand in relation to the views posted on them.  I have to admit, there are several VERY informed, and deep thinking individuals that visit this forum.  You will not be disappointed in the lack of intellegence made for their arguements.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>"So....it is fair to say that if </FONT> <DIV>-you like the stun-heavy style for a robe wearer and don't mind nibbling stuff to death over about 5-10x the time required by another robe wearer when soloing</DIV> <DIV>- you appreciate a less aggressive style for taking on the mobs (rather than AE'ing them to death and root/nuking them down, praying the root doesn't break or an add doesn't jump you while kiting and you die), even if this means you don't level as fast as a warlock or conjuror,</DIV> <DIV>-you will be doing a lot of grouping with 2-3 other chars, which will usually be 2 warlock/conjurors and a healer or rogue, and will thus have a function for non-epic encounters with them and in fact (if you play attentively and are committed to learning) be fairly if quietly useful to them....</DIV> <DIV>-you're willing to forgive the designers for blocking the path to more efficient tactics that would tantalize some folks"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>That is a lot to assume based on the discussions you have read.  Again, there are people that are extremely dissatisfied with the current role of the Illusionist and there are some that maintain a great deal of hope for the growth of the class.  I think it would be wise of you to re-read the posts on the board and try to determine whether you would enjoy the class based on your particular style of play.  I can honestly say I really enjoy the class, even though I agree it needs changes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>VR,</DIV> <DIV>Kailen - 60 Illusionist Faydark</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by junzu on <span class=date_text>12-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:37 PM</span>