Illusionist question

[Nees]

<DIV>Hey guys<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am trying to decide between an illusionist and conjurer.  I've been reading both forums and so far it seems that illusionists are the more "upset" of the casters.  Claiming everything is broke and [Removed for Content].  Let me first off start out by saying that I did play both a mage and a chanter in EQlive to lvl 66.  Now in EQ2 I have a 15 mage/conj and a 16 enc/illusionist.  I love the two classes in EQlive and loved the thrill of mezzing and charming as well as some dps too.  But I'm not sure from all the negative posts if that is really the case here in EQ2.  I don't intend on raiding much and if I do, I don't care if I'm just here for buffs or a few spells here and there as that is what i'm used to from the 30-50 ppl raids from old eqlive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I want is an honest well round opinion of this class.  Nothing about raiding inabilities, as that doesn't affect me and won't anytime soon, and if it does and they haven't fixed it, so be it, I'll reroll if needed...but as I said, thats a long way down the road.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just need some food for thought I guess.  So far I like both classes. I like to mez and have invis, have several dots and buffs.  But is that it here?  I tried to charm a few things and everything said it was inelgiable (sp?) and were only white cons.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now with the conjurer I have nice massive nukes, a pet, pet spells my own spells as well as shapshifting and all that stuff.  I dunno.  I guess I just was hoping for someones opinion on this from an enchanters point of view<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Because all my guildies are steering me away from it, but I don't want to take a few ppls opinions, I want to hear some information from ppl that play this class, not just "we are [Removed for Content] now"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Tuleri]

There are numerous threads with detail of spells and class problems for you to read.  At low levels you are fine.  Once you move torwards end game enchanters have no role..Key spells are broken (charm for Coercers), have no purpose (mezz and other crowd control. stifle on raids) or just outright suck (pick any dps spell other then color shower).  Again refer to the numerous threads in this board, Coercer and SPell/Combat area for details<p>Message Edited by Tulerine on <span class=date_text>11-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:07 PM</span>

[Darmash]

I don't think anyone should advise you take illusionist as your choice. We are useless in raids, ineffective in solo and groups. Half our spells have been so badly nerfed and keep being so to the point that this is a dying class at this time. You will probably be much more happy with a conjurer or wizard sort. <div></div>

[Impetus]

Honestly, the only situation in which I would consider starting an enchanter right now is this: A regular, small group of 3 or 4, that already had a fighter and healer, and I wasn't ever planning on raiding. In that type of a group, mezzing is helpful for taking on content that you otherwise wouldn't be able to do. And it's not like the enchanter is far and away better in that situation, it's just the one spot that there isn't a glaring discrepancy. In any group of 6, mezzing is so unimportant that it doesn't make sense to pick a class that is based around that. If you're gonna be soloing, conjuror wins hands down. Can mezzing and power regen be useful? Sure, in certain situations it can be helpful, but if you go into this thinking that you'll have anything close to an eq1 enchanter, you will be sorely disappointed. Most of the time in a group I feel like a 2nd-rate wizard. <div></div>

[Barobra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Darmash wrote:<BR>I don't think anyone should advise you take illusionist as your choice. We are useless in raids, ineffective in solo and groups. Half our spells have been so badly nerfed and keep being so to the point that this is a dying class at this time. You will probably be much more happy with a conjurer or wizard sort.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>"ineffective in solo and groups" - I disagree. I get tells for groups all the time from people that I have grouped with before. I have said this over and over. Our dps can match most if done correctly and add power regen and stuns. We man handle all heroics with stifles, stuns, and throw in an illusory every once in a while, very effective in groups. People downplay us too much right now cause were gimped for epics. But heroics I still think we do very well. If you are not, then your group does not understand mez and you don't understand your class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am still proud to be an Illusionist, and given time I believe we will be a very powerful class.</DIV>

[Nees]

<DIV>Thanks so much for all the input! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Right now my little pack of RL friends consists of 4 of us.  Right now there is a shammy, druid, pally, and me.  At least  thats what we have figured out anyway.  So maybe a chanter would be ok for that group then.  I mean, as I said in my initial post, I don't intend on taking on epic mobs or raids anytime soon so that part doesn't concern me.  I'm thinking of what would be most fun for my little group.  I just want something really fun to play is all. Something more then just hitting my hotkeys/macros and that it, ya know?  I want something I can work at I guess. And since we get some form of pets maybe I'll do an illusionist and see where it takes me, I can always start over I guess, lol</DIV>

[zit]

<P>i would say it depends a bit on your playstyle and on what is important for you in general.</P> <P>if you intend to spend quite some time solo, conjuror is the way to go. illusionist while soloing are more or less weak copies of conjurors. once you hit lvl 20 you wont use charm anymore, but get the personae line, a permanent pet. it cannot compete with the conjuror pet in no way, it cannot really tank and cannot hold agro very well. its still a good help and for the most part sufficient. </P> <P>summoner get buffs for their pets and a heal, illusionist are very limited in buffing when they solo as the pet already takes up 3 con slots. illu get a dumbfire pet later on that will make soloing a bit easier, but conjuror get that as well and in stronger form again.</P> <P>so for soloing your choice would be between a mage with a strong pet and good dps and a mage with a weak pet and mediocre dps.</P> <P>if you intend to fight in duo a lot, you will have a much easier time with the conjuror again and more viable options what class to duo with. conjuror bring their own tank and they can function as healer for their pet, so the core roles of a group are always covered. although several combos are also doable with illu instead, they always will be a bit more unstable and need really good communication.</P> <P>if you going to fight a lot in a team of 3-4 ppl both classes will serve you well. Maybe you will even enjoy the illu more in this situation as crowd control and mez will be appriciated and can give you the feeling to contribute something worthwile and really  important to group success.</P> <P>in full groups it depends much on the group set up and the group members if you will feel useful or not. In general  it can be said that the better the group the less they will benefit from an illusionist as in those groups mez and other CC abilities are hardly needed. and thats after all what we are specialised in. still i would say illu are doing ok in groups and are interesting to play there. if you dont look to be "the best" you will maybe also enjoy the illu in full group.</P> <P> </P> <P>from your post though i get the impression that you are not the happy enchanter type of player. i could be wrong of course and imply something you didnt mean that way, but to me it seems you clearly have more fun with your conjuror and came here in the hope that we tell you the chanter will be different or better to play in higher lvl. i think the main feeling you get in your teens will stay throughout all levels. at least that is what i have experienced with my different characters. so best is to listen to yourself, be honest and go with the class that simply gives you the better feeling.</P> <P> </P>

[Tarkadal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zitha wrote:<BR> <P>in full groups it depends much on the group set up and the group members if you will feel useful or not. In general  it can be said that the better the group the less they will benefit from an illusionist as in those groups mez and other CC abilities are hardly needed. and thats after all what we are specialised in. still i would say illu are doing ok in groups and are interesting to play there. if you dont look to be "the best" you will maybe also enjoy the illu in full group.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I would like to qualify something here. In a good group an enchanter is actually quite beneficial. Never discount the importance of power regen when chain pulling. Mez allows the puller to bring home more encounters and reduce downtime further.</P> <P>I'm speaking as a 46 Illusionist, who worked a wizard up to 52. I do feel that most groups could benefit from having a chanter with them.</P> <P>Of course, there are still issues with the class, mostly in trying to find a role other than buffbot. The power drain lines of spells serve little purpose, the stuns are really only useful when doing high yellow/named group mobs or in emergency situations where the healer fell asleep. Debuff and stifles are fast casting so they definetely get used. But then again, they are damage prevention spells. In a group where the healer is using less power than the tank they are kind of pointless to cast unless you just feel like looking like you're contributing.</P>

[Barobra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Neesia wrote:<BR> <DIV>Thanks so much for all the input! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Right now my little pack of RL friends consists of 4 of us.  Right now there is a shammy, druid, pally, and me.  At least  thats what we have figured out anyway.  So maybe a chanter would be ok for that group then.  I mean, as I said in my initial post, I don't intend on taking on epic mobs or raids anytime soon so that part doesn't concern me.  I'm thinking of what would be most fun for my little group.  I just want something really fun to play is all. Something more then just hitting my hotkeys/macros and that it, ya know?  I want something I can work at I guess. And since we get some form of pets maybe I'll do an illusionist and see where it takes me, I can always start over I guess, lol</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>In that group you are missing DPS. Now as an Illusionist you could add a nice bit. But no where near a assassin, ranger, wizard, and warlock...etc. May want to consider one of these. If the druid or shammy would reconsider, have them take DPS spot and you go for the illusionist. No need for druid and shammy in most situations with a good pally tank. Try to find a nice round group. Also think about HO's. Since you will have a 4 man group you want to fill that scout class as well, along with the mage. <p>Message Edited by Barobrain on <span class=date_text>11-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:55 PM</span>

[zit]

<P>if looking for a more "perfect" group the best would be to replace one healer with a rogue or predator but keep the illu. that would add good dps and at the same time scout utility like evac.</P> <P>for the specific group a conjuror is maybe the better addition. the highest benefit an illu brings to a group is safety. in a 4 ppl group with 3 of them able to heal, the safety aspect is more than covered already. like Barobrain mentioned what is lacking here is dps. in this regard the conjuror would be clearly ahead.</P> <P> </P>

[tawek]

<DIV>Neesia,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You asked the question over two weeks ago, so I suspect you've already taken one path or the other.  Do let us know how it goes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But you've asked a very good question which others reading this board will want an answer to, so I'll have a go.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The most important question is not, what is the most powerful, but which class will give you the most fun?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A conjuror will be the more powerful at soloing, with the possible exception of some group encounters.  It provides the nice option for a small group of using its pet as the main tank.  Seems a flexible and interesting class, and one I might try out sometime with an alt.  Also seems to be a relatively straightforward class to play.  If you've mastered how to control your pet (a big if), you can be very effective without too much further effort to learn the class.  I'm sure there are many tricks to optimise your effectiveness, but you'll still be pretty effective without them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Illusionist (and it's evil twin the Coercer), are probably the hardest classes to play.</DIV> <UL> <LI><STRONG>If you have a quick temper, don't play it.</STRONG>  People *will* break your mezzes.  Some players *will* insist on AOE which breaks your mezs, even when the entire group previously agreed not to AOE.  People *will* break mez accidentally, simply because they misunderstood something . You *will* sometimes die because people break your mezzes.  But if you enjoy the challenge of being diplomatic, patiently explaining what went wrong, and working around such problems, that can be fun too. </LI> <LI><STRONG>If you want an easy time completing quests solo, don't play it.</STRONG>  With a pet, the Illusionist is a better soloer than a number of classes, particularly the poor old templar.  Our personnae is poor at holding agro, and we need that pet to do reasonable dps.  And if it does hold agro it doesn't last long against three-up heroics.  So we need to use elaborate combinations of stuns, mezzes and other spells to solo well.  If constant experimentation to maximise your effectiveness doesn't appeal, this is not the class for you (but that's exactly why it's the class for me)</LI> <LI><STRONG>If you want a relaxed easy time in the game, don't play it.</STRONG>  But if you want a challenge, in my opinion it's the best choice.  Illusionists have very powerful abilities, but need a lot of care and concentration to use to their best.  If you don't put a lot of thought into maximising the effect of your spells, it will seem a gimped class.</LI></UL> <P>I'm not sure why so many on this board are so negative about the class.  Perhaps it is perfectly legimate frustration with the negation of most of our best spells against epics.  But I do wonder if some have simply chosen the wrong class for their style of play.  Certainly, when I talk to Illusionists in-game, they are much more positive.</P> <P>In my opinion, the Illusionist is perfectly adequate at soloing.  It offers a great deal of utility and effectiveness to a group, including some quite impressive dps.  But it is below par against epics.</P> <DIV>There are situations where the Illusionist is hugely powerful, and great fun:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Against powerful heroics, especially casters or heroics with *nasty* special attacks that can wipe a group, the Illusionist is incredibly powerful.  We can quick stun, then long stun, to keep the mob out of action for the first half of the fight.  We can stifle, to leave the mob with just it's autoattack for damage.  And our melee debuff helps too.</LI> <LI>Against a powerful heroic with some extras.  If we mez the main mob, let the group deal with the extras, and then stun/stifle the main mob, an encounter which might wipe the group becomes straightforward.</LI> <LI>When the group is overwhelmed, whether from an overpull, adds walking into a fight, a broken group invis, or a quest pop, our mez can save the day.  The most fun I've had in the game has been when half the group is down, there are 3 difficult heroics attacking, and a wipe looks inevitable.  I've then mezzed them, the group has rezzed, repowered, and we've gone on to win.  It's a *great* feeling.  I don't think any other class has the chance to save the day as dramatically as that.  If there were no other reason to play a mezzer, these rare occasions make all the rest worth it.</LI></UL> <DIV>If that appeals then go for an Illusionist.  But I wouldn't recommend it for a first-time player.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Elleii, 57 Illusionist, Antonia Bayle</DIV><p>Message Edited by tawek21 on <span class=date_text>11-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:27 AM</span>

[Drost]

Great post, Tawek.  It's a great class to play and it's great that someone else finally spoke to its virtues. <div></div>

[jun]

<DIV>Personally, I love the class.  I (unlike many others) take pride in the ability to supply my group with an almost endless supply of power!  We are possibly one of the BEST power generating classes in the game.  Does that bother me?  Heck no!  I am an accessory class and proud of that fact.  We are capable of 2 critical uses in ANY group.  The afore mentioned Power Regen... and Awesome Crowd Control (CC).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my assumption, Power Regen is an almost effortless ability in essentially few spells.  Savante Adept III, group-wide, reduces power costs by 49%!  This is HUGE!  Mana Cloak Adept III, group-wide, in-combat breeze 120-150 power regen.  And you have Daunting Gaze that drains power from a mob and surrounding allies and disperses the power back to your group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Casted and monitored effectively, your group has a virtually bottom-less power pool.  Yes, I have used the same tactic during raids and found it very effective over long fights.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crowd Control happens to be the highlight of my arsenal.  In my view, no one does it better (nor should they).  I use EVERYTHING in my power to stun/stifle/root or mez my way into complete control.  This is where I get the most enjoyment from my class.  If I cannot take their power pools away, I darn well can keep them from using it on my group in several different ways.  I love group stuns, and group mez's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have been in cyclops groups and Cleft (Epic x2) grind groups that have hot pulls and constant adds.  I have YET to see a full group that DIDN'T need our services.  I love being the sanity check in the midst of chaotic situations like these.  Makes me shine!  No greater pride than getting tells and group messages thanking me for pulling our butts out of the fire time and again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the mobs are heroic and below... I PWN them... bar none!  At 57,58 and now 59, the only reason my group can defeat Cazel is because of ME!  And I love it!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We also help in DPS.... Strife, Spellshield, Haste and Dynanism are fun.  No, we can't really do the DPS ourselves, but we can augment others to deal out devastating amounts of damage where they normally wouldn't.  We can also augment HATE factors (maybe not the greatest) but every bit helps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The thing is, you just have to realize what we do.  We are decent at solo'n.  But we absolutely radiate in a group.  We are definately a niche accessory class, BUT, it's one that MOST people love to exploit as often as possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you love grouping, fast-action, and can handle the pressure of maintaining control when all else fails, roll you an illusionist have at it!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>VR,</DIV> <DIV>Kailen - 59 Illustionist Faydark </DIV>

[Morphyd]

<P>I agree with junzu, i love playing illusionist too.</P> <P>Most of the time, when i enter in a team, i see messages like : 'cool a chanter !'</P> <P>I ran DPS in some occasions. Epic orcs in clefts for example, i was first in my group, i had more DPS than a pally 59 and ranger 60. Pally 59 had just a bit less than me. </P> <P>AND it doesn't count for me the damage i was doing with dynamism, but for my team mates.</P> <P>In Roost i had like 75% of the wizard 60 in team.</P> <P>We have cool mana regen, CC when needed, a pet to solo, nice utilities, nice DPS when we focus on it.</P> <P> </P> <P>OK the drawback is that we are close to nowhere in raids, this needs to be fixed, but the rest is fine imho</P>

[Tuleri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Morphydia wrote:<BR> <P>We have cool mana regen, CC when needed, a pet to solo, nice utilities, nice DPS when we focus on it.</P> <P> </P> <P>OK the drawback is that we are close to nowhere in raids, this needs to be fixed, but the rest is fine imho</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I agree with most of your statements however, just a couple things</DIV> <DIV>-Mana regen is pretty pointless unless chain puling to grind</DIV> <DIV>-Spellshield is now a waste of a pearl.  It is only usefull for pvp</DIV> <DIV>-we have 2 spells for power drain.  While they have other uses (stifle & stun) the power drain component is useless unless you are PvP.</DIV> <DIV>-Agree we are STILL close to nowhere in raids.  My level 46 Dirge generally provides better buffs then my 60 Illusionist</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nees]

Hello, Tawek21 and fellow Illusionists,<BR><BR>You asked how I was doing and what I had decided.  Well, I have chosen an Illusionist, dispite what many have said.  I am lvl 17 and in the middle of my Betrayal quest from freeport to Qeynos.  I hate the goody feel of it but it is so beautiful there.  I need a tough class, I need something challanging.  I played an enchanter in eqlive for nearly 3 years and have not found any other class to compare to that one.  Perhaps with improvement this one will.  However I'm in no position to raid at this lvl and LOVE doing small grps with mezzing and dungeon crawls like in the old days thru seb and chardok from eqlive.  I feel I will do just fine as I do have a temper but its controlled.  I was a raid leader for my guild in eqlive and primary enchanter on the raids so hopefully some of the skill learned there will pay off here.  I don't expect to be a fantastic solo'er...chanters aren't ment to be, we are support with the skills to solo if done properly imo.  We can do anything if we learn how to and know our spells are supposed to do and should do.  Anyway, I won't go into a big boring story on what I used to do and what I think the future will hold.  Thanks for your time as well as everyone elses that have chosen to post to help me with my decision.  <BR><BR>Please do not get into another dispute about chanters and what we can or can't do nor this patch or that patch ruining us.  Honestly, we are just fine except raids perhaps...or so I hear.  But honestly, enchanters don't have a huge roll in raids other then thier normal rolls.  And in no game that I've ever played could an enchanter type class lock down the bosses or thier guards, stun, or anything near that.  Nor did the power drain make a difference on those mobs as the pool is just too huge.  I guess it does suck for those that have gotten used to playing a certian way but I kinda forsaw this coming a while ago.  They'll fix it in time.  As they do all games.  Back in EQlive we did not have KEI or grp Haste, it was single buffs and when you got high lvl a grp buff...wow.  It was amazing.  Then they (dev's) realized it wasn't cutting it, new content came out, game play changed....etc.  They made changes, just as they will here.  Perhaps for many of you, you will need to reroll for a while, many have done it and will continue to do so.  But for me, I'll stay an illusionist and do my best and what I have.  Granted, I love this game not just for the combat but for the art of questing, tradeskills, socal interacting, exploring, etc.<BR><BR>Thanks again for all the input, it was much appreciated.<BR><BR>Neesia<BR> <p>Message Edited by Neesia on <span class=date_text>11-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:24 AM</span>

[Impetus]

<span><blockquote><hr>Neesia wrote:Thanks again for all the input, it was much appreciated. <div></div><hr></blockquote>I'm glad you're doing well and enjoying things. Feel free to continue to ask questions, even those of us who aren't fully satisfied with the class are still willing to help out when we can.</span><div></div>