Nerfs are ok, but ...

[tawek]

<DIV>It's strange.  When I come to this forum, I'd think Illusionists were totally nerfed, and all about to quit.  When I talk to Illusionists in the field, they have some important complaints, but still love the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The life of a chanter is a hard one, and it should remain so.  It's a seriously challenging class to play, which is why most of us chose it.   The trouble is, SoE are constantly worried about what skills trivialise the game...  but that's our job ... to trivialise encounters.  So I fear this won't be the only nerf coming our way.  As long as they don't overdo it, I don't mind too much, if they also address our serious concerns.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have strengths and weaknesses.  We are now ok soloers (even with the nerf), we are incredible in groups fighting heroics, especially casters, really tough groups, and monsters with deadly special attacks, but we are below par in raids.</DIV> <DIV>The nerfs downgraded our soloing from above average to about average.  It reduced our mezzing, stunning and stifling somewhat, but these skills are still incredibly powerful against heroics.  It nerfed a game-breakingly powerful root, that had to be nerfed.  But it hasn't dramatically changed things.</DIV> <OL> <LI><STRONG>Root used to almost never break, now it breaks a lot.</STRONG><BR>Frankly, anyone with any sense knew this nerf was coming.  I was a 54 Illusionist pre-nerf, I could solo heroics I should never be able to solo ... and if duoing with a ranged dps ... that was insane.<BR>I'd have preferred if they'd nerfed in a different way ... but hey!  Soloing was getting boringly easy ... now it's a more fun challenge.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Stun durations reduced.<BR></STRONG>Chain-stunning/stifling, along with mezzing, is what makes our class so incredibly powerful.  Looks like SoE wanted to tone it down somewhat, but it's not really slowed me down.  For example, when in a group doing Scornfeathers Roost, I can still turn the named from tigers to kittens for the whole fight.  Without resists, I can still chain stun or stifle 24/7.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Ticks of AOE DOT compressed into shorter duration.<BR></STRONG>This is mostly helpful.  Even when fighting a single heroic, this spell does nice damage.  When the damage happened over a longer period, the group had killed it before I got full benefit from the spell.  Sure ... it nerfs our stifling ability a bit, but we've got plenty enough to chain stun/stifle if we want to.  One byproduct is I now grab agro a bit more ... which makes it easier for me to go into "Illusion: Warlock" mode <joking>.</LI> <LI><STRONG>AOE mez and the second mez have greatly reduced duration, and longer recast timers.<BR></STRONG>This is a real nerf.  But let's be honest.  Mezzing was just too easy before.  I could AOE mez, then, by alternating my single mezzes, cycle through the encounter mezzing everything.  It felt like I could lock down the entire zone.  Now it's a bit more of a challenge ... which frankly is more fun.  I don't think my groupmates have noticed the difference.  When it seems nothing can save a wipe ... the mezzer can still save the day!</LI> <LI><STRONG>Second mez has a half second cast time<BR></STRONG>When I first saw this, I was lamenting the reduced duration and long recast of the second mez.  Now I realise how <STRONG>useful</STRONG> this is.  Previously, if the healer was being beat on, a 1.5 second cast time was <EM>forever</EM>, and the healer often died.  Now I can emergency mez, then overwrite with the full mez, and the healer lives.  And that's not the only use.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Power drain is no longer a DOT in stun and stifle.<BR></STRONG>This is pretty helpful.  If the group is facing a wipe from a heroic, I can stun it while people are fighting, get them to stop hitting, and mez it.  Previously the power drain DOT would break the mez.  Of course they might as well have taken the power drain away altogether, for all the good it does us, but this change is still quite helpful.</LI> <LI><STRONG>Spellshield</STRONG> <no idea ... not level 58 yet></LI></OL> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG><U>BUT</U> ...</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>We need help in raids.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nothing anyone else isn't asking for.  Prismatic Strife to be useable on a raid friend, not just group friend.  Our stuns and stifles to do an interrupt on epics, so half our spells are still at least useable in a raid.  Haste to be castable on raid friend would be nice too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We're not useless on a raid.  I did Darathar recently and was the only power regen class in the raid.  At the end, my group was around 30-40% power, the other three were nearly spent.  I kept him debuffed, my dynamism buffs will have done some decent damage, my Psychotic Spectrum may have interrupted him a little, and I did more damage with other spells.  But, as always, I felt I was fighting with one hand tied behind my back due to named epic immunities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can live with the nerfs.  I expect I can live with the the other nerfs yet to come.  <STRONG>But please help us get up to par on a raid.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><BR>Cheers,<BR>Elleii, 55 Illusionist, Antonia Bayle</DIV><p>Message Edited by tawek21 on <span class=date_text>11-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:01 AM</span>

[Aelore]

You sound like someone that has a regular group or else no problem finding groups.   Grouping is easy, no matter what class.  Just throw a few spells around, give them their buffs, and everyone is happy.   It's soloing in which the nerfs become readily apparent and the comparison between us and other mage classes becomes so extreme. <div></div>

[Darmash]

Hello Lockeye. Now remove your mask. <div></div>

[SunT]

<P>I have to agree.</P> <P>You can make a group without a tank, healer or Chanter and have it function fine.</P> <P>The issue is with Solo and Raid.  I don't solo anymore so I don't speak of it.  But Raiding is totally [Removed for Content] for us.</P> <P>Our regen is substandard.  Our buffs don't stack and are most often not needed.  We need a catalyst to deal damage and it is not raid castable.  We have little or no debuff effect on Epics.  We have no CC on Epics.  We have Paltry DPS for what we have given up.</P>

[Belizarius]

<P>Not a bad post.</P> <P>About stuns.  I do still bemoan the reduced duration.  And, our stun still has an awfully long cast time to be used to rescue a fight that is going bad.  Way too long to save a mage or scout that's being beaten on.  If we are having an 'emergency' spell, let it be a stun not a mez!</P> <P>And, our group mez should be able to mez a whole group!</P> <P>Since LU13 we've had</P> <P>root nerfed</P> <P>2nd mez nerfed</P> <P>AE mez nerfed</P> <P>stuns nerfed</P> <P>stifles  nerfed on epics</P> <P>spellshield nerfed</P> <P>Pretty much all our key abilities nerfed in some way.  Seriously, we were not overpowered to begin with!  Our crowd control was awesome for a while, but (a) we're supposed to be good at that and (b) crowd control doesn't kill things, and (c) it still costs power, can't keep it up forever.</P> <p>Message Edited by Belizarius on <span class=date_text>11-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:31 PM</span>

[Tuleri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Belizarius wrote:<BR> <P>Not a bad post.</P> <P>About stuns.  I do still bemoan the reduced duration.  And, our stun still has an awfully long cast time to be used to rescue a fight that is going bad.  Way too long to save a mage or scout that's being beaten on.  If we are having an 'emergency' spell, let it be a stun not a mez!</P> <P>And, our group mez should be able to mez a whole group!</P> <P>Since LU13 we've had</P> <P>root nerfed</P> <P>2nd mez nerfed</P> <P>AE mez nerfed</P> <P>stuns nerfed</P> <P>stifles  nerfed on epics</P> <P>spellshield nerfed</P> <P>Pretty much all our key abilities nerfed in some way.  Seriously, we were not overpowered to begin with!  Our crowd control was awesome for a while, but (a) we're supposed to be good at that and (b) crowd control doesn't kill things, and (c) it still costs power, can't keep it up forever.</P> <P>Message Edited by Belizarius on <SPAN class=date_text>11-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:31 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You forgot about Savante</P> <P> </P> <P>Also our WIS/INT buff no longer stacks.  I have had Warlocks request me not to cast it so they can use their skill+ buff</P>

[ScamprinSlippy]

<P>SunTsu, our regen is not substandard... bard types only have their breeze type spell which is basically the same as ours, and they don't have Devitalizing stare which basically adds 50% to our regen.  So right there we are definately better than two of the 4 regen classes, hence we cannot be a substandard regen class.</P> <P>We have things to complain about, but regen isn't one of them.</P>

[SunT]

<P>Bards are Ghetto Crack providers.  They are a crack assistant.  </P> <P>In EQ2 they are the crack provider and we are the assistant.</P> <P>Try to use Dev Stare in an exp group.  You will find that it is the first thing you must think about.  You have to find perfect timing to keep it up.  Often times you cannot even get it off as the mob is dead long before your cast goes off.  You lose your DPS in the mean time.  </P> <P>The Bard just stands there and kicks your butt.</P> <P>If you feel trading 50 or so DPS for a possible cast of a spell that will likely only grant you regen Out of combat, then I am glad you are satisfied.  </P> <P>I am not.  We are Chanters and this is our Primary function. Our base regen should far surpass a Bard.</P> <P> </P>

[tawek]

<DIV>Thanks for the feedback guys.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Besto</STRONG>, it's true that I have some great friends and get to group a fair bit.  But I do a lot of soloing too.  However, my soloing is to complete my many many quests, not to grind experience (I don't enjoy grinding solo exp, I do enjoy solo questing).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Darmash</STRONG>, you've lost me.  Who is Lockeye?    <EM>[Edit: just Googled ("everquest 2" Lockeye), seems you just paid me a big complement, thanks.  But I'm not part of SoE.]</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>SunTsu</STRONG>, I think we mostly agree, but regarding mezzing epics ... I now use the phrase "mezzing named epics".  There are a fair number of unnamed epics we *can* mez, many chanters don't realise this, let alone non-chanters.  This needs repeating as much as possible, otherwise raids may not let us use our best abilities, and we'll be selling ourselves short.  (Examples: extras in Maiden's Gulch, and Rahotep)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Belizarius</STRONG>.  Agreed, the 3 second cast of the long stun makes it unsuitable for a rescue situation.  I use the 1 second cast short duration stun for that.  Seems to work well, it's rarely resisted and affects multiples mobs in a group.  However I disagree about not being able to keep up a mez forever.  With a single target to mez, I probably *can* keep it up forever.  Multiples are harder.  Oranges are a serious challenge: if it's resisting 3 out of 4 attempts, then I do run out of power ... and have unbreakable agro by the end of it ... lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Tulerine</STRONG>, probably true.  I didn't have an adept 3 Savante before the nerf, so wouldn't know.  Regarding Wis/Int buff ... I think that's a nerf affecting a fair number of classes, so I don't feel so personal about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>ScamprinSlippy</STRONG> & <STRONG>SunTsu</STRONG>.  Regarding regen:  Haven't done any testing of this.  If I do use Dev Stare, it tends to be just before the end of the fight, as the buff seems to carry on after the fight ends.  But usually I forget to.  The regen spell that I *love* is Mana Cloak for boss fights.  Only useful when the tank needs more power to taunt, due to long fight or power drain, but then it is awesome.  Also great if pally is main tank, as they love to burn power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hmm.  Some of this makes me think we need a thread for the sharing of tricks of the class ... so folk can come to one place to learn the tricks of the trade.  I'm sure you guys have ideas that I've never thought of.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cheers<BR>Elleii, 55 Illusionist, Antonia Bayle</DIV><p>Message Edited by tawek21 on <span class=date_text>11-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:46 PM</span>

[Azamien-Dermorate]

<div>another thread with good idea's</div>