I am out .....

[Arja]

<DIV>Well bugger me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I managed to solo the new Bouncer PH in Feerrott last night. im level 49, he was level 40 ^^^. And I took him out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was stunned, in RL I was mezzed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There maybe something left in us yet. Get some Legendary Equipment and maybe I could take out a blue ^^^, god forbid maybe a white ^^^.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But then again, we are not supposed to be able to take these mobs out solo....</DIV>

[Sidas]

<P>WTB Usefull class, or infact any other class but llusionist.</P> <P>WTS Useless level 57 illusionist, can be placed in your home as merchant bot while you play the game as intended with a usefull class.</P> <P> </P> <DIV>Karanker 57 illusionist Runnyeye server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sidas level 70 Warrior Xev server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Sidas on <span class=date_text>11-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:17 AM</span>

[Barobra]

<span><blockquote><hr>Sidas wrote:<div></div> <p>WTB Usefull class, or infact any other class but llusionist.</p> <p>WTS Useless level 57 illusionist, can be placed in your home as merchant bot while you play the game as intended with a usefull class.</p> <div>Karanker 57 illusionist Runnyeye server</div> <div> </div> <div>Sidas level 70 Warrior Xev server</div> <div> </div><p>Message Edited by Sidas on <span class="date_text">11-15-2005</span> <span class="time_text">05:17 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>*boggle* You suck if your not useful as an Illusionist.</span><div></div>

[Zephanor]

I'm with you Barobrain.  I think all in all we're doing quite fine.  Sure, there are areas of improvement we can gain but the same can be said for others.  With personae, construct, dot, dot and nuke I'm able to solo yellow ^, while and blue ^^ and green ^^^.  Much, much better than before the combat revamp. I'm know I'm only 45 but I'm in no rush and enjoying the game at a smooth speed.  All is not lost but the illusionist class is quite rare.  Even more rare dark elven illusionists!  I kinda like being different but when I'm in groups these days that have folks say, "I've never played with a mezzer before."  Scary and somewhat a pain to explain /assist and the like. I played a chanter in EQLive for years (got up to 68 before the game just got a little boring) and I don't really have much desire to play anything else (though conjurer's seem cool.) I would really like to see some cool and desitinctive illusions.  It just seems stupid that we don't have anything that sets us apart from what we are called.  Still, nothing in the useful department but would add to the fun factor. Still, I enjoy playing my class and lately have found mezzing to be more of a blast (past two nights have been like CC or old, nice.) <div></div>

[trenor]

<DIV>Therefore your input on any high end area is ignorant.  In a group we are fine in a t6 raid situation you might as well get out the towel and wipe the drool and spittle off the floor.  Soloing also scales in level dont forget the t6 mobs have twice as many hp and hit 3 times harder than the t5 mobs.  Please level up your illusionist to at least 55 and then repost I am fairly certain that you will see a totally different side of things then.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fiz</DIV>

[Zephanor]

Well funny that, I wasn't commenting on being a high level illusionist.  I was commenting on being an illusionist, period. Also, please take note that the original poster states he is level 48, that's only three levels above me.  He's the one I'm responding to alongside Borabrain's comments.  Being 45 doens't invalid my love and joy at playing an illusionist any less then being 30-35 in real life would make me or anyone else any less of a man. I've found that some people simply love to complain.  They will find issue with almost anything.  Will I do the same when I reach 55?  I doubt it because I'm not the type to cry when things aren't perfect (that's not to say folks here are doing this, just stating my personal approach.)  I choose to find ways to succeed and take up the challenge to make things work.  Without some struggle and working through the feeling of accomplishment is lessened.  Just like folks are more likely to take better of things they purchase with their own money than they are of things just given to them. Are there things that can be improved?  Absolutely!  Has SOE made improvements over the past year to our class?  You betcha, from level 20-60 the difference is felt.  Are there other class with issues that need addressing?  Certainly, we are not alone.   But the track record so far is that they will address things one way or another and all in all, for the better.  I do hope that the issues listed here for most are addressed and that playing this class will be fun again for so many that love it and are disappointed in it right now. Will it be tougher at 55-60?  Yes!  And to me that's a good thing.  Right now soloing is too easy.  While I like a Sunday drive from time to time I also like a challenging rock climb.  A lot of it can be perspective as well. You don't like the way things are?  Then keep posting and /feedback until there's a change.  Until then find ways to make it work, keep your head up and be creative.  If it sucks that bad then you gotta do what you gotta do in order to have fun whether that be quit, reroll, buy a Fury, move to another game, whatever.  I'm sorry it's not working out and when I hit those higher levels I'll be sure to look this thread up and say hello. <span>:smileytongue:</span> <div></div>

[Zebsen]

<DIV>There are issues with the illusionist class.  Some are worse than others.  And some people like to exaggerate the issues, throwing in a series of words such as bot, useless, [Removed for Content], and others to accent their point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I read above that our solo ability is "broke".  As a level 50 illusionist, I can solo a level 50 heroic group, and a level 48 ^^^ heroic.  Yes, it's risky, and even more risky with a nerfed root, but broke?  I don't think so.  I have mostly legendary gear/spells with one piece of fabled gear and several master spells.  It also certainly isn't worth the risk or time to do, but it can be done if you know how to do it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've only been on a few raids and can't comment much.  I had fun and felt like I contributed, but a significant portion of my spell bar wouldn't work on the epic mobs.  I can catch a glimpse of why people feel that this wouldn't be a very exciting raid class to play due to the limited spell selection on epics, and I'd like to see something done to change this.  Hopefully something is being done to address this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dislike seeing nerfs to our class, but the root nerf had to be done to fix exploiting.  What I really hate is when they tried to put a positive spin on nerfs (ie shorted duration on color shower).  Anyone that is semi-familiar with this spell is going to see the nerf.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you really hate this class, try playing a different class!  If you read the boards, furies, zerkers, and troubs seem popular.  I enjoy the versatility of the illusionist and the ability to make seemingly impossible things possible in small groups.  Hopefully by the time I get into raiding, they've addressed some of the issues there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zebsen </DIV>

[SunT]

<P>Zebson,</P> <P>If they do address these issues it will be because of our vocal whining.</P> <P>Sorry this upsets you now, but you can wait and thank us later.</P>

[trenor]

<P>Once again please read my post the mobs and your spells do not scale equally as you level meaning when you get hit by a lvl 60 mob it is not the same as a 50 at that level.. Your caps are all met and there is a slide in the curve.  I was not posting that to be harsh to youunder 55 but as most of the issues (and the people that say we are not gimped etc.  are the ones that have not reached the caps) are at high level; 55 plus i said I am certain that When you hit that level you will see things in a much different light.  Again, please read the full post before comments.</P> <P> </P> <P>Thank You</P>

[Zephanor]

<DIV>I read the post and clearly understand.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Only time will tell and perhaps one of two things will happen, we'll hit 55 and things will be fixed due to contstructive posts here and feedback in game or you'll be able to say "I told you so."  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm understandably hopeful for the former.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[tawek]

<P><STRONG>Zephanor</STRONG> (45 illusionists) said: "I think all in all we're doing quite fine."<BR><STRONG>Trenor</STRONG> said: "Therefore your input on any high end area is ignorant. ... Please level up your illusionist to at least 55 and then repost"</P> <P>He doesn't need to.  I'm a lev 55 Illusionist, and frankly, pretty much everything he said is true at my level.  The mobs are hitting harder ... but my skills are too.  I can solo yellow ^ without much risk.  Heroics are a serious challenge after the root nerf ... but so they should be.  The real issue is with raids.<BR>And, of course, <STRONG>Barobrain</STRONG> lev 58 and <STRONG>ZebsenChanter</STRONG> lev 50 have posted that they find the class a useful one to play.</P> <P>Guys, sure there are problems with an Illusionist in a raid, but let's cut the hyperbole.  If your first sentence is full of over-the-top exaggerations, but you have valid points further on, you are wasting your time.  The devs won't get beyond the first sentence before moving on.</P> <P>Elleii, 55 Illusionist, Antonia Bayle</P>

[trenor]

<P>To be frank at 55 you can not even hit t6 raid mobs i shouldhave been more specific there.  However, we are not the best soloes now nor the worse now that i have played with the changes.  No, I can no longer solo a triple up heroic my level.  But I can solo a regular heroic.  </P> <P> </P> <P>In order to truly evaluate ones class to the fullest I (Personally ONly) believe you must be the max level and see all the skills and areas of the game and where you fit in.  I by no means wish to imply that all the chanters under 60 do not have good valid points.  Cause, of course, they do.  In order to raid and be able to be useful in t6 you must be 60.  If you are not then you really are juts a buff bot.   Which is fine because none of our mana regen abilities progress any further than level 52 with savante (cant remember i think that was the first ancient spell).  </P> <P>I will say that I am a raider.  Frankly, this is because once you hit 60 thats whats left to do and I hate questing.  Keeping this in mind I am slightly jaded in my posts in that area and it is the only real area that we are extremely gimped in.  Solo they need to maybe decrease the recast time of our stun or add a slow portion to the root on break and that would solve about 99% of there headaches.</P> <P> </P> <P>The problem with our spells is that by there very natur they are meant to be grp oriented well a named raid mob just isn't a group its a single and thereby causes a problem in class profiency and area.  We do excel in grps its our gravy and we shine especially if ya can ever find a troubador you may [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] well out dps the wizard on grp mobs.  Try it you won't believe it.  But the true epic mobs is just very-very- boring and frustrating.  You really can do about [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near nothing.  I reallize that if you do not like to raid you may think of me as a whiner and, frankly, I might be whining abit at sometimes.  Like when the super nerf bomb hit all at once.  ( I would thouroughly sugges that in the future if you'd like change that it should be a progression not a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] a-bomb on all the skills a class has.  Helen Keller could have seen what was gonna happpen to you all)</P> <P>In conclusion,  I really do love my class.  I just hate the raid abilities of my class at level 60 agaiinst t6 mobs.  I also do not like that my class defining abilities are shared by other classes.  There are many, many great aspects of this game and I applaud the efforts of the crew on the good work they have done so far.  The person who's job it is to read these boards for feed back from the players must get up in the morning take some advil with his coffee in the morning and then whack a couple of alkseltzer down for the heartburn we give him.  There are no simple soplutions I am sure to a situation as this.  Balancing a groupin utility vlass against an epic scale single mob.  I am holding faith that you are looking into this situation and will in a timely manner give us a little input as to where we are heading.</P> <P> </P> <P>Good Luck and may marr have mercy on you all</P> <P> </P> <P>ADVIL ANYONE</P> <P> </P> <P>FIZ</P>

[Barobra]

To sum it up. I agree. For an Illusionist. Raid = Bad Group = Good People love me in a group cause I know what I am doing, have mostly masters and do very good dps. I parse all the time, If you try and have an idea of what spells to use when and where you should be doing very good dps. Our utility were gimped but cmon illusory allies along with the stuns and mez should give you should room to work with. I can take care of some heroics, and love doing it. Dont forget we have group invis as well. Which, is useful in the right situation. So we have alot of good points that no one really thinks about. Raids are where all the crying is coming from. And I understand. But believe me the devs read whats going on. And its hard to miss all these posts. <span>:smileyhappy:</span> <div></div>

[Darmash]

Actually :Solo = badSmall group = goodFull group = averageRaid = badI make the difference between small and full group because in a small group (my favorite are with tank and healer, usually guardian + fury) we really shine and we can do almost any content designed for group. This is where our CC is the most needed. Such a group does not kill fast, but can appreciate the content and the challenge in a lot of places. This was before LU13, and keeps going even now.<div></div>

[Zebsen]

<DIV>As I mentioned in my post, I can easily see how raiding can be unrewarding for illusionists.  We have uses, but our role is limited.  I still think our soloing is above average at level <STRIKE>50</STRIKE> 51, as I can solo an even con heroic group with some skill/effort/luck.  This may diminish as I level a bit.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would like to think the devs have something in the works for helping us out on raids.  I don't anticipate stiffles/stuns being reenabled on epics, so I'm at a loss for what they might do.  There have been several interesting threads on ways to make us more valuable on raids, and I'm curious to see what (if anything) happens.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zebsen</DIV> <DIV>Level 51 Illusionist</DIV> <DIV>Lavastorm</DIV>

[Pins]

I think our solo ability vs. solo mobs is average due to how long it takes us to kill.And our solo ability vs. heroics is average as well, since a lot of other classes can do the same as us, just we take even longer than they do.

[Darmash]

About our solo ability vs heroics, it depends on what type of heroic encounter :- White ^^^ single mobs are still doable, but we need to be very careful on the power use  or we have to run away with one mezzed npc. I see wizards finish those with half their power left in less than one minute, or necros do the same with 2 or 3 pets.- The named ^ + 2 x no arrow heroic encounters, like the easy named cat, the prophet, and the harpy in PoF, which have never been heroic due to the difficulty of every single npc included, are still the same if we have some room to run. Take them in any order, although I prefer to kill the named last.<div></div>What's broken currently is soloing in narrow places, like Tear Grifters missions or Sleeping Tombs/Silent City in the solo parts. And this is why I say the devs missed their target. Even more then as soloing those places has become a chore, I prefer for myself go try heroics in PoF.

[KniteShayd]

I also agree, love my chanter, hate the constant "fixes" and "balancing".  Soon as DDO and Vanguard come out, so long as they don't play around like this game, i'll be gone.  In the FAQ, they(Vanguard) tell you plainly that every class has its role, there is no balancing between classes, some classes are better at things than others and that some will do things others can't.  thats how it is here, but they(soe devs) are sooo obsessed with balaning they fail to realize what classes are supposed to be. Then they nerf everything and try to make it sound like they did something good.  not only am i fed up with the costant changes, i'm tired of the horrible cust svc we get, and the way the devs try to decieve you into thinking that the changes are good.  like when they nerfed our dots so it wont break root and then the way they put it was we changed the root to make it last and extended the tick time on the dots, hooray.  um no, its insulting to think that everyone can be fooled by clever wording.  hopefully these games will take notice of this crappy way of running the game and abon such ideals, otherwise i havta abondon hope. :smileysad: 

[tawek]

<DIV>A pleasure reading the last few posts ... the bad feeling in this thread has gone, and we basically agree with each other.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think we end up arguing because one side get annoyed that their class is being unfairly rubbished ... and this will lead to group leaders excluding illuionists from their groups.  And others feel the suggestion that the class isn't totally gimped, is another way of saying that the player who think they are "sucks" at playing the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my opinion, the chanter classes are the toughest to play in the game.  I hope they stay that way, because I love a challenge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We will always take longer to solo than sorcerors and summoners ... but if you think life is tough for us, spare a thought for the poor templar.  In groups, I reckon I contribute a lot, but it's taken a lot of tactial changes to adapt to nerfs and the combat revamp, and I learnt a lot of those tricks from this forum.  I don't want to patronise, we all have things to learn about how to use this complex class, I know I do.  I'd especially like to know how someone can solo a white heroic ^^^, I can *just* manage a blue, if very lucky.  Perhaps it's my lack of Master level spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What we all agree is the need for a better contribution to a raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't like the hyperbole about us being useless on a raid, especially on forums other classes use, because raid leaders who read those posts may become more prejudiced against us than they should be.  But I do want SoE to bring us up to par for raids.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was especially shocked yesterday to discover that there are others classes with a stun that can affect epics ... and we just have the interrupts on Psychotic Spectrum.  I mentioned this to a warlock, and he was a bit shocked: "That's ridiculous, that's your job."</DIV>