Here is an idea. A way to make us useful on raid events [Archive]

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RpTheHotrod

10-28-2005, 02:19 AM

Why not give illusionists spells that, lore-wise, were designed to work on complex minds, but have no effect on simpler minds. In other words, the new spells would ONLY work on epic mobs, and no others. It would at least make us somewhat useful in epic encounters...not overpowering...but useful. Thoughts?

Aeeri

10-28-2005, 02:47 AM

elaborate. What would you want this spell/ability to do? Also, plan on coming up with an epic only spell/abiltiy for every other subclass so that nobody feels left out.

RpTheHotrod

10-28-2005, 03:46 AM

What other classes are pretty much useless in raids? They would, of coarse, also get raid spells. I have not been able to participate in many raids, so the effects of these spells would be discussed here with more experienced raiders. Message Edited by RpTheHotrod on 10-27-2005 04:47 PM

RpTheHotrod

10-28-2005, 03:46 AM

*edit double post*Message Edited by RpTheHotrod on 10-27-2005 04:47 PM

Etillchou

10-28-2005, 06:25 PM

We still add enough to raids. You just have to look further then how you normally play.We can interrupt epics, our mana regen when using all spells is decent to say the least, aoe aint that bad either compared to some other breezer classes, stuns and mezzes on epic adds in instances is nice also and stronger then the rest. and well if mobs are immume to mental attacks we just cast dynamism and prismatic strife on people in the raid/group who can hit the mobs meaning we can always do damage no matter what the resist type is.Okay we aren't as good in raids as we are in groups but that doesnt mean we are useless.

Tuleri

10-28-2005, 06:57 PM

Padi

10-28-2005, 06:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Etillchou wrote: We still add enough to raids. You just have to look further then how you normally play. We can interrupt epics, our mana regen when using all spells is decent to say the least, aoe aint that bad either compared to some other breezer classes, stuns and mezzes on epic adds in instances is nice also and stronger then the rest. and well if mobs are immume to mental attacks we just cast dynamism and prismatic strife on people in the raid/group who can hit the mobs meaning we can always do damage no matter what the resist type is. Okay we aren't as good in raids as we are in groups but that doesnt mean we are useless. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm not sure about dynamism, but I suspect it's the same, but the prismatic line does not do damage against mobs who are immune to mental. The tree in Living tombs is one example. It will just tell you that prismatic havoc failed to inflict damage. There are a couple of these types of mobs in the Living tombs x4 instance and Shimmering citidal x4 instance as well. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before you get too upset about not being useful on mobs who are immune to mental, realize other classes have the same troubles too. One of the ways the dev's have made all 3 subclasses of fighters useful is to make their taunt lines immune or very resistant to one type or another (warriors are mental, brawlers are poison or disease, and crusaders are divine). All classes will face some immunity issues on various mobs.</DIV>Message Edited by Padien on 10-28-2005 08:02 AM

Etillchou

10-28-2005, 07:42 PM

It seems to work as long as you cast it on someone who can do damage to the mob. I casted it while fighting a mob immume to mental. Casted it on someone doing icecomet and the addition damage did hit.if that works as intended by soe I dont know but it hits <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Padi

10-28-2005, 10:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Etillchou wrote: It seems to work as long as you cast it on someone who can do damage to the mob. I casted it while fighting a mob immume to mental. Casted it on someone doing icecomet and the addition damage did hit. if that works as intended by soe I dont know but it hits <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> You haven't actually fought an immune to mental mob yet. The spell will hit, just it will say it fails to inflict damage. Trust me on this, fight the tree in living tombs and you will not do damage. Tarantuala on the other hand, while very resistant to mental, is not immune.

Padi

10-30-2005, 04:53 AM

Update, the Terrorantula is immune to mental as well and gives the failed to inflict damage message on each prismatic havoc.

Izzypop

10-30-2005, 07:43 AM

<DIV> We are far from useless on raids, though my primary use is for power. I'm usually in MA's group along with 4 healers. Between Insight, Savante, and Mana Cloak I am able to do wonders for the groups power and if either the MA or the Healers go out of power the raid is over.</DIV>

zit

10-30-2005, 12:58 PM

yes our primary use is power battery. cast Devouring Thoughts every 45 sec, cast Savante every 3 mins, if you dont have a Coercer in raid you may have some use for Mana Cloak every 15 mins also. The 2boxed illus in my guild can very easily do as good a job as power battery than i do. To have to cast one spell every now and then to fulfill your PRIMARY role is really a very poor job. And dont get that excited about your procs or your only one debuff. Every healer got more debuffs and got proc buffs also, while being able to do their real main job, aka healing, while you will have a hard time to convince me that enchanter are able to do their real main job, aka mind control. The point for enchanter has never been that we wouldnt be useful. We have ever since been useful for power battery. It has never been a fun job, it still is not. And i dont want to be reduced to this one ability for my main role on raids. I didnt sign up this class to be power battery in the first place. For immune mobs, there is only one other class that gets hit similar bad as we do when it comes to immune mobs and thats warlock. Summoner can still do melee dmg with their pets, melee class can switch weapon, wizard got nukes based on different resists. They will be less effective of course but still will be able to use half of their skills. so on immune mobs they face what enchanter face on every epic mob: being reduced to half of their skills. While enchanter will be reduced to zero if we face immune mobs. Seems all very fair and balanced and fun. :smileyindifferent:

Etillchou

10-30-2005, 05:10 PM

well we still have word of force, that's magic dmg but well.. the dps is minimal.. still its something tho <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Lolthinae

10-31-2005, 04:47 PM

<DIV>I thought I would copy here what I posted on my guild boards a few days ago:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>.................................................</DIV> <DIV>We have all been somewhat disgruntled, thinking that we would have little to offer in raids now that our main abilities – stun, stifle, mezz – have been made obsolete on epic mobs. However, last night in Ahket Akan, I certainly felt useful and came out with a feeling that I had made important contributions to the success of the raid. Power regen. We had chanters or bards in all groups, and one of each in MT group. We need that. Power did not become a major problem, but it was close a couple of times, and would definitely have been an issue without our chanters and bards. On the longer fights I had to use mana cloak to keep MT in power, and a few times we used mezz to buy us some time for power regen. Being able to keep power up on all groups and especially on the MT is one very important contribution. Damage reduction. Most of the mobs we faced were linked encounters with 1 or 2 named and 2 to 3 “little ones”. When they were all hitting on the MT we could not keep him alive. So, we used mezz to reduce the damage output, keeping the little ones mezzed while killing the named. This worked really well and certainly kept me busy. During the longer fights we used mezz to give us a break after the main mob and before engaging the little ones – buying time for power to regen. Basically using mezz as a tool for power management Spell shield on MT reflected the first 3 spells after pulling, buying a bit of time for him to get back to the raid and for the rest of us to debuff and such, before the AoEs started hitting us. Not being “blasted” immediately after pull definitely helps keeping the MT alive and getting the encounter under control. In addition to casting, those mobs hit pretty hard – crushing, slashing, whatever – and dismay must have contributed to reduce that damage by a bit. In any case, I tried to keep that up on the named at all times. DPS Frankly, I didn’t have much time to do any DPS during these fights. But haste, spell and melee proc on MT, magic debuff on mob, and an occasional dot or nuke, all counts for something. So, I was a very happy raider last night. I was kept busy, I felt useful, and most importantly, I felt that I made a decent contribution to the success of the raid. </DIV> <DIV>.................................................. .....................</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My role has changed, no doubt about it, but so have our tactics, and to my great surprise I'm finding that not only am I still being useful, actually very useful, but I'm also having a lot more fun compared with back when my main contribution was casting crack on 24 people every 10 minutes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Sug

11-01-2005, 07:23 AM

Yes, I have tried to sell myself to my guild so that I can stay on raids too. And if I was gonna talk myself up, that's how I would do it. BUt that sounds more like one particualr raid rather than most raids in general. Yeah yeah, I know most of you are thinking, what kind of guild wouldnt allow you to come? Well, raids teams are built for success. You dont put in your 3rd string at the bowl game unless it's a blow out. If I know I have to choose 5 people to sit out, I am going to chose the 24 that will most likely get me a kill. It's not personal, it's just the way it is.

Padi

11-01-2005, 09:15 AM

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sugo1 wrote: Yes, I have tried to sell myself to my guild so that I can stay on raids too. And if I was gonna talk myself up, that's how I would do it. BUt that sounds more like one particualr raid rather than most raids in general. Yeah yeah, I know most of you are thinking, what kind of guild wouldnt allow you to come? Well, raids teams are built for success. You dont put in your 3rd string at the bowl game unless it's a blow out. If I know I have to choose 5 people to sit out, I am going to chose the 24 that will most likely get me a kill. It's not personal, it's just the way it is. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Well, no matter how you look at it, we are still the best, or close to the best power regen (coercer being our closest. Not sure if their extra regen or savant is best). And our DPS is pretty good as well. I frequently hit near the top when teamed with a bruiser. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Spellshield is also very useful on some encounters.</DIV>

Ramsy02

11-01-2005, 12:39 PM

Our enchanter is always in MT group now... not going to go into details but enchanters are very handy in raids now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

FreaklyCreak

11-01-2005, 08:32 PM

I want to thank you all alot. I've got a 30 Illusionist and this post has helped alot understand how our tactics work in raids, and made me think of grouping ideas. I can't wait now to get Mana Cloak Adept3 at level 35 ^_^. If any of you have any tips, i think this post would be a good place or my email, [email protected] I'd like to point out that if you stack our group mitigation buff and our group wis+intel buff(adept3 both) you come out with one of the best arcane resistance buffed groups ive seen.

K3mik4l

11-02-2005, 12:18 PM

Spellshield is a useful defensive spell... then again, dangerous too if the mob decides to AE and there are adds near <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />lol, ignore me, its already said, hehe.Anyway, just to add, used this on myself while we was killing Vyr'drais. Reflected his lava breath nicely <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> the damage was crap though <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Message Edited by K3mik4l on 11-02-2005 09:20 AM

SunT

11-04-2005, 08:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ramsy02 wrote: Our enchanter is always in MT group now... not going to go into details but enchanters are very handy in raids now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I have been in MT group every raid since I dinged 58.