Possibly returning to EQ2

[RpTheHotrod]

<DIV>What changes have been made with the combat update (overall)? I left before the plague event ended.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are Illusionists still just "buffbots" with little use in higher level groups? How effective at soloing? Support?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>etc...</DIV>

[SunT]

<P>You left driving a 72 Pinto, you would be returning to a '04 Porche.  Not the best, a few dings here and there, but a pretty nice ride overall.</P> <P>For the specifics you have alot of reading to do...it is a totally different class now.</P>

[Tuleri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RpTheHotrod wrote:<BR> <DIV>What changes have been made with the combat update (overall)? I left before the plague event ended.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are Illusionists still just "buffbots" with little use in higher level groups? How effective at soloing? Support?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>etc...</DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>-Great at soloing</P> <P>-Great at duels</P> <P>-Great in groups</P> <P>-Pretty bad in raids <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>I am having a blast soloing grouping etc..However, I like to raid a lot..this has me discouraged.  </P>

[Jaxidi]

<DIV>What SunTsu said is correct.  We are by no means the same class.  Here's a very quick recap:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI>Bards have power regen equal to or greater than ours.</LI> <LI>Power regen is an always-up, no-conc group buff.  I think master1 Insight is 31ppt now.</LI> <LI>We have a pet (read about our doppledanger elsewhere, many things about it to know)</LI> <LI>We can do nice burst dps (but don't expect good dps over a long raid fight).  350ish consistant dps at 55 as long as I don't go oop.</LI> <LI>We are mez-masters now.  Very short recasts, long durations, and encounter mez no longer sucks.  45s durations on all 3 mezzes, 10s (ish) recasts on all 3 mezzes, ae mez does not mez you now.  But when you mez, don't expect uber dps.</LI> <LI>We can hit things with our sticks again.  i.e. we can raise our crushing skill to the same levels tanks can.</LI> <LI>At 14, 24, 34, 44, and 54 everybody gets a free Master 2 spell.  Read the forums about these.</LI> <LI>Soloing is a viable tactic for us now!</LI></UL> <P>Many many more things to read about but that should get you started.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[pera]

<div></div><div></div> Jaxidian wrote:   <div>What SunTsu said is correct.  We are by no means the same class.  Here's a very quick recap:</div> <ul> <li>Bards have power regen equal to or greater than ours.</li> </ul> .... Actualy the bard's powerregen is lesser or the same at the same spell level.( app, adept,master).   <p>Message Edited by perano on <span class=date_text>10-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:18 PM</span>

[RpTheHotrod]

<DIV>Awesome to hear <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like raids though...a shame we arn't useful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, I was rarely ever able to be part of a raid anyway. I've never been in an uber guild...had to get everything alone...etc... and solo gear just isn't viable in raids normally, it seems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guess I'll get ole  Inchantdis alive again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do I get the master spells for the teen levels even tho my illusionist is already 30+?</DIV>

[SunT]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> perano wrote:<BR> <BR>Jaxidian wrote:<BR> <BR> <DIV>What SunTsu said is correct.  We are by no means the same class.  Here's a very quick recap:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Bards have power regen equal to or greater than ours.</LI></UL>....<BR><BR><BR>Actualy the bard's powerregen is lesser or the same at the same spell level.( app, adept,master).<BR><BR><BR>  <BR> <P>Message Edited by perano on <SPAN class=date_text>10-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:18 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The issue is in the spell level.  You get a T6 upgrade which is better than our T5.  We get no Upgrade.  We are better if we use all of our regen tools but that takes from our DPS CC etc.  Yours you cast and are done. </P> <P> </P> <P>And we dont 'Suck' at raids.  AOE DPS is very good.  We have some decent buffs...not uber but alright.  Our Spellshield, level 58, has some very effective uses against Epics.  </P> <P>I would say we are the Bane of named mobs but our hands are tied on Epics.  We can still do some ok things but many of our abilites are basically useless.  </P> <p>Message Edited by SunTsu on <span class=date_text>10-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:06 PM</span>

[Jaxidi]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SunTsu wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> perano wrote:<BR> <BR>Jaxidian wrote:<BR> <BR> <DIV>What SunTsu said is correct.  We are by no means the same class.  Here's a very quick recap:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Bards have power regen equal to or greater than ours.</LI></UL>....<BR><BR><BR>Actualy the bard's powerregen is lesser or the same at the same spell level.( app, adept,master).<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <P>Message Edited by perano on <SPAN class=date_text>10-25-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:18 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The issue is in the spell level.  You get a T6 upgrade which is better than our T5.  We get no Upgrade.</P> <P>...</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>That is exactly what I meant, sorry for not clarifying. <BR></DIV>

[Tuleri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RpTheHotrod wrote:<BR> <DIV>Awesome to hear <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like raids though...a shame we arn't useful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, I was rarely ever able to be part of a raid anyway. I've never been in an uber guild...had to get everything alone...etc... and solo gear just isn't viable in raids normally, it seems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guess I'll get ole  Inchantdis alive again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do I get the master spells for the teen levels even tho my illusionist is already 30+?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><STRONG>To clarify about raids</STRONG></P> <P>You may notice several other threads about Illus on raids.  The bottom line is:</P> <P><EM>Pluses:</EM> </P> <P>-Haste and Dynamism are now concentration slots, so once cast on group </P> <P>member, your done</P> <P>-Breeze effects entire group, and is up till canceled.  It cannot be cast on rest of raid, only group.  Yes this is a BIG PLUS! lol</P> <P> </P> <P><EM>Negitives</EM></P> <P>-Mez doesnt work on most epic trash mobs</P> <P>-Stifle doesnt work on any epic (some weaker trash mobs are the exception)</P> <P>-Stun..see stiffle</P> <P>-Power drain just doesnt work</P> <P>-Root...see stifle</P> <P>So you have about a hotkey bar of spells that are useless or much less effective agains epics.  Pretty much any mind or crowd control spell wont work, so we are basically good buffers with weak mage dps on a raid.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P><STRONG>Gear on raids</STRONG>, your a mage an you shouldnt get hit!</P> <P><STRONG>Master IIs</STRONG>-when you log on for first time since combat update, you will see the lil ability + sign, as they have been reset.   The master IIs are selected thereat level 24,34,44,54</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[ScamprinSlippy]

<P></P> <P>there's always a lot of talk about the bard's regen, but keep in mind we do have devitalizing stare. Master1 insight does 31, and <FONT color=#ff0033>Adept3 Devitalizing Stare does 15.5 per tick, ...which effectively raises our regen buff by 50%.  Don't tell people you give them around 30 power per tick, tell them you give around 45. </FONT> I'd like to hear a number for bards regen at level 60, with high quality skills.... I figure its in the high 30's.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>Another easily overlooked illusionist buff is the 69 Wisdom on Seal of Ingenuity Master2, which gives 197 to ALL resistances.  So... when someone asks how much you buff mental magic and divine, add in 197 to the effects of Aspect of Mind <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>how did I get the number 15.5 for dev stare?</P> <P><SPAN>Devitalizing Stare:</SPAN> regens 20 mana instantly, then every 4 seconds, <SPAN>24 second duration, 45 second recast.</SPAN><SPAN>So it gives 20 points of mana 7 times, thats 140  power over 45 seconds, which is 3.1 per second...</SPAN><SPAN>A tick is 5 seconds, so you're looking at 15.5 regen per second if you use Devitalizing Stare as soon as it is castable.</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by ScamprinSlippy on <SPAN class=date_text>10-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:48 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by ScamprinSlippy on <SPAN class=date_text>10-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:53 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by ScamprinSlippy on <span class=date_text>10-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:03 AM</span>

[PigLick]

<span><blockquote><hr>ScamprinSlippy wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p>there's always a lot of talk about the bard's regen, but keep in mind we do have devitalizing stare. Master2 insight does like... 31 or 32 regen per tick I think, I'll check when I log on, and <font color="#ff0033">Adept3 Devitalizing Stare does 15.5 per tick, ...which effectively raises our regen buff by 50%.  Don't tell people you give them around 30 power per tick, tell them you give around 45.  And if I'm not mistaken the power pool buffs also affect regen, I think it is 1 point of regen per tick for each 100 power, and I know my Master1 Aspect of Mind gives over 300 power, so thats another 3 points of regen right there, so my regen buff(s) is about 48 or so.</font> I'd like to hear a number for bards regen at level 60, with high quality skills.... I figure its in the high 30's.</p> <p><font color="#ff0033">Another easily overlooked illusionist buff is the 69 Wisdom on Seal of Ingenuity Master2, which gives 197 to ALL resistances.  So... when someone asks how much you buff mental magic and divine, add in 197 to the effects of Aspect of Mind <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></p> <p>how did I get the number 15.5 for dev stare?</p> <p><span>Devitalizing Stare:</span> regens 20 mana instantly, then every 4 seconds, <span>24 second duration, 45 second recast.</span><span>So it gives 20 points of mana 7 times, thats 140  power over 45 seconds, which is 3.1 per second...</span><span>A tick is 5 seconds, so you're looking at 15.5 regen per second if you use Devitalizing Stare as soon as it is castable.</span></p> <p>Message Edited by ScamprinSlippy on <span class="date_text">10-25-2005</span> <span class="time_text">06:48 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by ScamprinSlippy on <span class="date_text">10-25-2005</span> <span class="time_text">06:53 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Power pool doesn't affect regen anymore, it's all level-based, so you don't get extra regen from powerpool buffs. As to your last part, a tick is actually 6 seconds if I'm not mistaken, so it's actually around 18/tick (as long as it doesn't get resisted, of course). PigLick</span><div></div>

[ScamprinSlippy]

thanks for the clarification, Piglick.  Suppose I should take a watch and count the number of ticks in 60 seconds to see the length of a tick for sure

[Kazora]

no u were right the first time, devital does not regen per "tick" or rather not the usual 6 sec tick. it does its "ticks" every 4 seconds, as the spell description says (and is correct if u bother to time it). master is 22 adept3 is 20 i believe, every 4 secs for 24 secs

[ScamprinSlippy]

<P>we know Dev Stare ticks every four seconds, but we were trying to find how much it equates to on the regular ticks, like breeze and natural regen do, so that an illusionist can add devitalizing stare into that number, rather than saying "well i got some other spell that does some regen i dunno how much compared to breeze though..."</P> <P>Too many people are worried about bards, and need to realize that we do more than 30 regen per tick, so I wanted to show them we do around 45-48, assuming you click dev stare always and it isn't constantly resisted.</P>

[Pins]

Well at master, as said, Devitalizing Stare regens 22 instantly and every 4 seconds. So over a 24s duration of it, it will regen 154 power. It can only be cast once every 48s, so that means it adds 154power every 48s, a tic is 6s, so that's 8 tics worth. So that means it adds 19.25/tic regen, of course that's assuming no resists, the mob is not mental immune, and so on. So you could say, we hadd 50/tic regen, of course if we don't have 90 power to cast it, we don't really add above 31. So :

[ScamprinSlippy]

<P>So an illusionist with ad3's or masters is gonna be doing somewhere in the high 40's, which is fine with me.  Also, the 90 power to cast Dev Stare  isn't too hard if you know you are going to need it, like in a fast chain pulling group or a raid situation, just gotta prioritize it and keep an eye on its timer.  We gotta keep in mind that it gives us more power than it costs to cast it, so its worth casting unless you and your group seems to be having no power troubles at all over a long period of time.</P> <P>I have not done any serious raiding at level 60, can anyone verify if Dev Stare is easy to land on the difficult raid mobs?  We can recast it very quickly if it is resisted, so as long as it sticks after a few casts it should be fine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[SunT]

<P>You have to add the cast time which is very long.  </P> <P>You have to weigh the lost DPS for casting this spell.  At least 2 fast cast nukes =1000+ damage.</P> <P>You have to factor in that in an AOE group there will never be a target alive long enough to cast it.  You have to factor in resists.  </P> <P>You mention Master 2 version, I only wish that was an option.  So for real people who do not have Master 1 it is 27 per tick for insight Adept 3.</P> <P>The Bard gets better base power regen than the Illusionist, as does the Coercer no matter how you spin it.</P> <P>IF we get ALL of our tools working simultaneous, we are better, in spurts.  But we loose DPS or CC or Debuf in the meantime.  </P> <P></P>

[pera]

The bards T6 power regen at 58 is 32 at adept I :-/ bah lol not much of an increase from my master II for T5 <p></p>

[Padi]

<P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SunTsu wrote:<BR> <P>You have to add the cast time which is very long.  </P> <P>You have to weigh the lost DPS for casting this spell.  At least 2 fast cast nukes =1000+ damage.</P> <P>You have to factor in that in an AOE group there will never be a target alive long enough to cast it.  You have to factor in resists.  </P> <P>You mention Master 2 version, I only wish that was an option.  So for real people who do not have Master 1 it is 27 per tick for insight Adept 3.</P> <P>The Bard gets better base power regen than the Illusionist, as does the Coercer no matter how you spin it.</P> <P>IF we get ALL of our tools working simultaneous, we are better, in spurts.  But we loose DPS or CC or Debuf in the meantime.  </P> <P></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>In an experience group, I rarely used devitalizing stare because as you hinted at, things die so fast, and you could have done a good chunk of damage in that period of time.  However, on raids, you will be casting this every chance you get.  You have refresh timers on other spells to wait for anyways, and you can just fit it in.</P> <P>We also have 2 other power regen/saving spells.  Mana cloak, which tanks in exp groups love, since they still run out of power with a bard and enchanter, so this gives them a nice recharge.  We also have savante, which will save a good bit of power as well.</P>

[ScamprinSlippy]

<P></P> <P></P> <P></P> <P>Ah yeah, Suntsu the cast time is long, didn't think about that, and I went back and corrected the statement about master2 insight, i meant master 1, and used the stat for it.</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>The cast time on Dev Stare still isn't that big of an issue... tell me, how much time did breezing used to take?  Like 6 minutes to breeze 24 people, and then a recast every 15 for the duration of the raid, which could be 8 hours or so if you were doing SotL.</FONT>  Now we click dev stare once every 45, that is an incredible jump forwards.  I don't care how strong our breeze used to be compared to the present spells... at least we aren't simply buffbots.  People who say we are buffbots now have apparantly forgotten what it was like to raid months ago.  The lost DPS is perfectly fine... two nukes less for a 50% increase in our group regen?  I'll take that anyday, and so will any Raid group that has you along.  I have NEVER been in a situation where I felt I didn't have time to cast Dev Stare.</P> <P> </P> <P> And it isn't going to mess up your CC or whatever else, any more than casting another spell would, if you see an add and need to cancel, just sit down and stand back up, or take a step.  Dev Stare is a very good spell, hence it has a long cast time, and its not that big of a trade off... I'm sure bards would love to have something similar.</P> <P> </P> <P>Do bards get better base regen, yes, but on a raid we will have better than the bards because we will have plenty of opportunities to cast Dev Stare, there isn't a good reason to be unhappy with bards, its not that we have better regen in spurts, its that we have better regen so long as we are casting that spell, so don't complain about bards... its a silly argument being used by people who just wanna complain about our class.  It is a good thing that they can give strong regen anyway, because the class system before hand was out of balance, chanters were NECESSARY for a raid to succeed, and a single chanter could manage all that power over 24 people at a time, yeah it was flattering to be that capable, but it wasn't fair.</P> <P> </P> <P>I don't know how much coercers do in regen, but i know its not that much, and who cares anyway we have buffs that they don't.  Are both classes going to be unhappy until Illusionists and Coercers are merged into one class?  Regen isn't our problem its things like drains being utterly useless, and we could use some interrupts for epics if we aren't going to be able to stifle or stun them.  Hug a bard with one arm and hug a coercer with the other <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by ScamprinSlippy on <span class=date_text>10-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:30 AM</span>

[SunT]

<P>I agree scamprin, just pointing out the error stated previously re bard regen.  Their base is in fact better, much better actually.  This should change next level cap bump.  </P>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>SunTsu wrote:<P>I agree scamprin, just pointing out the error stated previously re bard regen.  Their base is in fact better, much better actually.  This should change next level cap bump.  </P><hr></blockquote>Actually it won't change next level bump.We will remain screwed at the new end-game. If they add 10 levels, we will get upgrade to Insight at 61, and they will get their new bria's at, 69. Well well, look at that, screwed for another expansion.Of course, the expansion AFTER that, we will finally be winning, with us getting our new one at 75, and them stuck with their bria's at 69 still. While the next one will continue in our favor 89 vs. 83. Then again tho, we just hit the wall, and it's 89 vs. 97, then it's back to us 103 vs. 97, then remains us, 117 vs. 111. Then back to them, 117 vs. 125. And we're at the point where we are now with Insight vs. their lv55 bria's.So it goes, if revamp was out at the start, US(50), THEM(60), THEM(70), US(80), US(90), THEM(100), US(110), US(120), THEM(130), and repeat that.But meh.

[Kaelos_]

<p></p>lvl 60 Troub here.  I'm looking at it right now.   Bria's Glorifying Ballad (adept III) 32 /tick. <p></p><p>Message Edited by Kaelos_CZ on <span class=date_text>10-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:30 AM</span>

[SunT]

So 5/tick.  All Illusionist need do is add GEB for each member of our party and we are even. <P></P>