Get LOUD pls

[SunT]

<DIV>I think it is a good time to get REALLY LOUD about the stifle/drain issues with epics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coercers are all over the spell forum listing issues with these arts.  We should support them and get as loud as possible about these issues to try to get a change worked in wiht the Coercer fix.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The longer and more constructive the threads are the more likely they are to be addressed.</DIV>

[merkla]

<P>i would like to see devs work a bit and change the situation about epics..</P> <P>they made us useless in 97% of raids but what should i do more than posting my disagreement bout this situation and how bad they nerfed us? i think they know very well our ability..since they made it.. and specially if u go on the "list of spells and combat arts" u can see that they posted a different thing instead of they are actually working</P> <P> </P> <P>for example with color shower we Know (as the spell description says in game) that we cant stiffle mobs stronger than heroic..but if u go to the list u can see that there is written only that the stiffle portion of spell is less VS epic and there isnt mentioned that it is completely useless...dunno if that is their final intent or just a big lie to keep us calm</P> <P> </P> <P>but i totally agree we should get LOUD ,or at least would be cool to see 1 of em step on this forums and say something!</P> <P>its about 1 week i took a break of playing about this situation and i think many did</P>

[kaeleth]

Yeah we got a bum deal out of this.  Since we had our effectiveness removed from raids, why not start making all epics immune to arrows, bet that would make the rangers happy.  Lets make epic mobs immune to wooden weapons.  Lets make them immune to magic totally.  This is just not right.  I am happy with what they have done for us up to this point, but this really takes the end game away for us being the fact that most of our skills are stuns and stifles...

[DavidJay]

I completely agree they gimped us and I said the same thing Sun with the Coercer changes, we need EPIC STUN AND STIFLE, there was no need to take it away from us=) Keep posting folks lets get un-gimped

[Impetus]

<div></div>Good call, Roamin. I've been trying to chime in on a few of the good threads, as I've seen some of the other illusionists do, too. Better chance of our issues being addressed if both subclasses are in on it making good points. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Impetus on <span class=date_text>10-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:26 PM</span>

[Sbazt]

<div></div>I just hit 45, got really excited about raiding.  Then went out with my guild and got yelled at because i wasn't doing my job (stunning, general CC, stifle, etc)... it's loads of fun telling a raid group sorry, Illusionists are just spectators at raids. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Sbaztik on <span class=date_text>10-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:20 PM</span>

[ScamprinSlippy]

<P>Epic stifling was ridiculously overpowered after the combat update, and we still have plenty of use on a raid without the epic stifle.</P> <P>Yes I agree that it was fun to have more spells to cast on raids, but they had to do something about epic stifles, and this was the simplest way to resolve it... I think sony has so many things to fix for tanks and healers after the combat update that they couldn't spend too much time on epic stifling, at least not yet. </P> <P>An epic mob could be permanently stifled between an illusionist and one other mage... , and a raid might have 6 or more mages in it, so it HAD to be changed.  Long duration epic stifles were going to have an enormous impact on raids, many raid bosses wouldn't be able to do hardly anything... it would detract from the game.  Sony chose to remove the epic stifles all together, rather than make their resistance rates high or durations always cut short.  I don't like that choice, but I do see why they felt they had to change it.</P> <P><FONT color=#66cc33>Yeah it would be nice if there were some way to let us mess with the epic mobs again, like maybe we could stifle but the stifle would break quickly, or maybe give us more interrupts, but don't ask for our stifles to be reverted back to the way they were immediately after the combat update, it was broken, very very broken, and Sony knows that, and they're never going to give it back to us.</FONT></P> <P>If we want to get some stifling or interrupts in, we have to be clever in how we ask for it.  Lets try to come up  with some cool ideas and post 'em here.</P><p>Message Edited by ScamprinSlippy on <span class=date_text>10-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:11 PM</span>

[Belizarius]

<P>Allow chanter mez/stun/stifle effects to land for say 0.5s duration on epics (interrupt effect).</P> <P>Add a decent Int debuff to stifles, which does land on epics.</P> <P>We already have a useful melee debuff.</P> <P>I'd be happy enough with something like this.</P>

[Impetus]

If they added "interrupts target" to all of our spells with stuns and stifles, that would be kinda interesting. Here's a thread in which Roamin adds some other suggestions: <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=65102#M65102" target=_blank>powerdraining/stifle thread</a>. <div></div>

[Darmash]

For all spells that have :- Stifles target (works only on heroic or lower targets)add :- hits target for sub_wizard_class_truckload_of_damage (works only on epic targets)In fact, replace the stifle effects on epics with a DD or maybe rather a DoT. The balancing should include the fact we have Dynamism. This changes our role from CC (which is of no use) to DPS, at least we get one then.<div></div>

[Neverborn]

<P>I think the key here is power drain. They don't want us to be able to stifle an epic mob because if you have epic stifles, and a smart raid force, the mob is going to be perma stifled. But if they took away the insane power regen of the epic mobs, then we might find a real raid niche in working the mobs power down. We don't need to be able to solo drain an epic mob, but 2 chanters and a bard, or a combo similar to that, who are focusing on power draining, should be able to eventually drain an Epic mob and keep it drained. Right now, 3 of our spell lines have power drain components, and power drain is completely worthless in this game. Even on heroic mobs, you can't drain them faster then they die. Make power drain a real tactical choice. Make it tough to do, but possible.</P> <P> </P> <P>-Myrid</P>

[Azamien-Dermorate]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Neverborne2 wrote:<BR> <P>I think the key here is power drain. They don't want us to be able to stifle an epic mob because if you have epic stifles, and a smart raid force, the mob is going to be perma stifled. But if they took away the insane power regen of the epic mobs, then we might find a real raid niche in working the mobs power down. We don't need to be able to solo drain an epic mob, but 2 chanters and a bard, or a combo similar to that, who are focusing on power draining, should be able to eventually drain an Epic mob and keep it drained. Right now, 3 of our spell lines have power drain components, and power drain is completely worthless in this game. Even on heroic mobs, you can't drain them faster then they die. Make power drain a real tactical choice. Make it tough to do, but possible.</P> <P> </P> <P>-Myrid</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I agree ... I have started raiding this week in DoF and I have to say while I have loved the combat chances for our class for xp'ing I hate them for raiding <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Belce]

<P>Enchanter type stifles could have a debuff to focus or whatever skill allows an npc to cast spells without interruption from normal hits and knocks that would last for the same duration as the stifle. </P> <P>Stifle</P> <P>Debuffs focus by x for y time</P> <P>if target heroic or less stifles for y time</P> <P>This would be an enchanter only line, other mage classes would not be able to debuff focus.  </P>

[Kazora]

<DIV>the problem is of course, balancing how mobs use power such thatan oop mob is not overly [Removed for Content] while on the other side of the scale a mob with power is not ridiculously impossible. Not that i expect sony to ever code something like the following properly, but one thing that might make power draining atleast somehwat beneficial is have mob special abilities potency work on a sliding scale based on their total available power; like a mob ability that automatically uses say 10% of the mobs power, and the dmg willb e based on how much powerthat turns out to be; so if a mob is near full power its ability may be far more devastating than if it had been at 50% power when the same ability had been used. This would allow partially draining mobs atleast somewhat worthwhile, even if fully draining them was impossible because of their rate of regen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i find now with mana regen not what it used to be, manacloak an extremely useful asset ot the tank during a raid fight, also spellshield can be very helpful against quite a few raid mobs, and dismay is questionably helpful on epics as well. And with a troub in group i can do some pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good dps on raids, consistently scoring over 400-500dps on groups of mobs and 300 on single. I think just changing our current stun/stifles to have "interrupt" Effect as well would be a  good start to getting those otherwise epic-unfriendly spells friendly while they work on a better use for power drain(hopefully)</DIV>

[Interce]

<DIV>I loved my character and I have lots of friends in this game that Im going to miss.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never thought id be one to make a post like this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was the first level 60 illusionist on najena, Masters Galore. Tried hard to be the best.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE has failed me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ACCOUNT CANCELED. This is not a bluff, Double check it and you will see. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Screw you sony for making me do this. Never will I go near your games again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It hurts. Im going to do my [expletive haxx0red by Raiscript] best to make sure others follow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pathetic money hungry scum. You give gaming a bad name.</DIV>

[ScamprinSlippy]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SunTsu wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The longer and more constructive the threads are the more likely they are to be addressed.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Intercept, please don't steer this thread in another direction.  Besides, why would an Illusionist lose his/her patience now?  Our class was one of the best treated by the combat update, we are no longer buff bots who die when a mob farts or sneezes.  Yeah, we still aren't the most perfectly designed class, but this thread has thus far been used to name our present concerns and suggest some solutions, lets keep it that way.</P>

[Interce]

<P>My apologies.</P> <P> </P> <P>THe thread is titled get loud. So I did. I quit for a multitude of reasons. Your kidding yourself if you think SOE will give a hoot about this thread anyway. I bet you any money we wont even see one dev reply to any of these threads.</P> <P>Frustration has overwhelmed me.</P> <P> </P>

[Flipmode]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ScamprinSlippy wrote:<BR> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SunTsu wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The longer and more constructive the threads are the more likely they are to be addressed.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Intercept, please don't steer this thread in another direction.  Besides, why would an Illusionist lose his/her patience now?  Our class was one of the best treated by the combat update, we are no longer buff bots who die when a mob farts or sneezes.  Yeah, we still aren't the most perfectly designed class, but this thread has thus far been used to name our present concerns and suggest some solutions, lets keep it that way.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Are you kidding?  We were treated good?  Um have you even been in a grp with a Troub or Dirge lately?  Please SOE handed us a pet and reduced our nuke damage, then gave it back as lvl 50+ spells.  Im all for optimism but my Illusionist is on the shelf too.  Enchaters )I have a Coercer too) suck and are not balanced with others atm.  Intercept is right!!!  Shame on SOE!!!

[ScamprinSlippy]

<P>I dont see how you can complain about our nukes doing less damage than before the combat update.  Their damage before was irrelevant, we weren't a DPS class at all, we couldn't devote much time to DPS, and if we did... we stole agro.  On raids our job was to breeze everyone by clicking a button every 15 seconds or so, throw on some debuffs, then hide in the back and try not to die.  I think most raiding enchanters used our dots, and occasionally threw in a nuke when they had time.</P> <P>Our DPS got better, it just isn't very good.</P> <P>Can anyone who raided prior to the combat update say they did much nuking?  Seriously, if you ever DID pour on the damage back then, you stole agro becuase breeze generated so much agro while you just stood there.  I think some illusionists are forgetting what it was like prior to the update.  I can recall several times I was the only enchanter on a Spirits of the Lost raid when my guild was just figuring it out, and I breezed the raid for around 6-9 hours.  Does anyone honestly miss the joy of clicking Insight 70 zillion times while doing very little else?I  Is it the sense of being utterly necessary that you miss?</P> <P>No, I don't think things are fantastically wonderful for us, but this thread was being constructive about naming and addressing the issues that concern us.  SOE did not do a mind blowing job with the update, but being [Removed for Content] about it and saying "I'm [Removed for Content]" isn't going to help.  We need try to make concrete statements or suggestions about our current state, our stifles having no use at all on raid, our relative lack of interrupts, and our drains being useless (all they do is generate agro).  We shouldn't be [expletive haxx0red by Raiscript]ing about the combat update, becuase it's already done, and we need to deal with the consequences of it, and try to make a constructive thread about it, rather than throw tomatoes at SOE.  You don't have to like SOE, or think that they read this thread, but that doesn't mean you can come in here and take a poo either.  I think 99% of the people who play this game are disgruntled with SOE (and if they played EQ1 they have been disgruntled for a long long time), but that attitude isn't going help anyone.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by ScamprinSlippy on <span class=date_text>10-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:37 AM</span>

[kaeleth]

<DIV>Really....we could not do anything to raid mobs before the cu...so it just got put back the way it was.  We are still 1000% better than we were before the cu.  Is really nothing to quit over.  If you have other issues, fine, but not being able to stifle or stun a raid mob is no reason to quit.</DIV>

[Tuleri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kaeleth wrote:<BR> <DIV>Really....we could not do anything to raid mobs before the cu...so it just got put back the way it was.  We are still 1000% better than we were before the cu.  Is really nothing to quit over.  If you have other issues, fine, but not being able to stifle or stun a raid mob is no reason to quit.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually before CU on raids we could DPS, buff, stun , stiffle & power drain.  Now we can DPS & Buff...Take a look at your hotkeys, no less then 8 are dramatically effected by this.  </P> <P> </P>

[Padi]

<DIV>Here is what I'm finding now that my guild has got to raiding a lot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do pretty good damage, sometimes topping the raid in DPS when grouped with a bruiser.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have found spellshield has a couple uses.  1) I can use it on the dps'ing tank in my group so he doesn't have to joust and can continue to dps which also helps my dps with prismatic havoc. 2) I use it on the pull in the MT group often, so he makes it to the raid alive.  It helps ease the raid into a fight when the first 3 spells are reflected.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess my role in the group has become, dismay to help the tank withstand the melee which is a big part of the damage incoming now, power regen (don't forget divitalizing stair and mana cloak to maximize your role here), mental/divine/magic resists and spellshield.  Spellshield was a little disapointing at first for raid use, but I'm finding it more useful than I was thinking it was.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Padien on <span class=date_text>10-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:32 AM</span>

[Pins]

Spellshield and raid AoEs is BAD BAD BAD.After trying Venekor over the weekend, I was feeling lazy, and did not want to joust, so I did as any other Illusionist would do, I cast spellshield on myself. Well, once that aoe hit, Venekor changed into a skeleton, and so did no less than 10 other mobs in the area(even though they're grey), and lets just say, we managed to survive, but there was some not-so-good strategy going on during the fight, hehe, but of course we were all laughing after the fact.Also when I was fooling around with Vision of Vox one time she was up, I got about 5 adds(this is all solo, hehe) from spellshield reflecting the AoE. Borxx, same thing. Any other mob with an AoE I would expect the same thing. Spellshield is a LIABILITY on most raids, and is not safe to use, unless they make AoEs that reflect counter as in-encounter AoEs, and not out-of-encounter AoEs(well that being, it changes out-of-encounter AoEs into in-encounter AoEs when reflected).

[Tuleri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Padien wrote:<BR> <DIV>Here is what I'm finding now that my guild has got to raiding a lot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do pretty good damage, sometimes topping the raid in DPS when grouped with a bruiser.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have found spellshield has a couple uses.  1) I can use it on the dps'ing tank in my group so he doesn't have to joust and can continue to dps which also helps my dps with prismatic havoc. 2) I use it on the pull in the MT group often, so he makes it to the raid alive.  It helps ease the raid into a fight when the first 3 spells are reflected.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Spellshield deffinatly is a great one for raids and especially duels!!</P> <P>:smileymad:</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[Padi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR>Spellshield and raid AoEs is BAD BAD BAD.<BR><BR>After trying Venekor over the weekend, I was feeling lazy, and did not want to joust, so I did as any other Illusionist would do, I cast spellshield on myself. Well, once that aoe hit, Venekor changed into a skeleton, and so did no less than 10 other mobs in the area(even though they're grey), and lets just say, we managed to survive, but there was some not-so-good strategy going on during the fight, hehe, but of course we were all laughing after the fact.<BR><BR>Also when I was fooling around with Vision of Vox one time she was up, I got about 5 adds(this is all solo, hehe) from spellshield reflecting the AoE. Borxx, same thing. Any other mob with an AoE I would expect the same thing. Spellshield is a LIABILITY on most raids, and is not safe to use, unless they make AoEs that reflect counter as in-encounter AoEs, and not out-of-encounter AoEs(well that being, it changes out-of-encounter AoEs into in-encounter AoEs when reflected).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>We don't raid T5, so I don't know how it works on them, but it's worked without any of those issues on the T6 stuff we've been fighting.  We don't fight around a ton of greys, and so far we havent seen a single mob change into a skeleton or anything unwanted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Rotacidare]

<P>Just starting to get into raids and such here. I loved it that on my first real raid the raid leader told chanters to just hang out and provide as much power regen as possible and do whatever damage we could. Made me feel real useful. All I'm good for is giving everyone a blue hula hoop. I do hope they can give us a bit more usefulness in Raid instances....I love our class but I don't want to become obsolete as I start raiding more. </P>

[dread du]

I am a coercer, a pathetically frail coercer with a [Removed for Content] charm ability and well... that doesn't matter, cuz i can't waste three conc slots while in a group... the problems are that I am also an enchanter... and enchanters are so useless!!! The enchanter class is dying, we must work together. <div></div>

[Sbazt]

I found a raid use for us. Stock up on poisons that stifle and stun, pass em out just before boss mobs.  See we can do more than buff.  /sarcasm off <div></div>

[Brakeman]

<DIV> <P>Well i can't speak for the rest of the illusionist, but from my experences as a player in a lvl 60  raiding guild.  I love the group power regen, ( though I believe it is a little low for for 60+ encounters, and should be more regen than bards) and the role of once again crowd control may it be encounter based or wandering mobs.  I have never been a big suporter of higher dps for our class.  As it so many really don't understand our role within a raid.  The more damage we can do along with our power regen, any debuffs we may throw in can turn very ugly by pulling agro off of the main tank, even if it is for a short period of time it can turn the mob and if it has a frontal ae or even melee based rampage gratz you fool you just wiped out most of the dps and probley a few healers.  Not to mention on a longer fight you just forced the main tank to waste more power to regain agro.</P> <P>As far as our power drains I total believe they are a waste of time even with 4 enc casting them on a epic mob by the time it dies they still usually have 80% if not more power still on it and we all know that the stiffle effects are worthless on them for epics.  Now for lower lvl encounters i guess they have some uses, but once you hit 60 if you are raiding you are just wasting your power casting them.  Now there is the power drain Devitalizing Stare , but yet once again it is  really low in power return in my opinion.</P> <P>Our haste since the nerf I very rarely use anymore, since our casters have fallen in love the the extra damage output dynanism adds to their dps.</P> <P>Now I also understand not all of us playing enchanter classes are into raiding, but I don't see why anyone in their right mind would choose this class for a solo play.  With SOE forced class balancing which I totally believe is insane.  There has to be pro's and cons to each class the more they try to make us all equal just ruins the classes as a whole.  Why have different classes if they are balanced ?  For example if I wanted to be more dps I would have made a wizard or a rogue.  If they have to try to balance things out put the balances on the gear or bring A.A's into game like eq1.</P> <P> </P> <P>Turvy AKA' Tipsy</P> <P>60 Illsionist Lucan D'Lere</P> <P>Defiance</P> <P> </P> <P> </P></DIV>

[Legionus1]

dev's = Don't Ever Voice, Seriously <font color="#ff99cc"> </font><font color="#ff99cc">As for Raids</font> Seems like every time we raise a finger or raise a hand we get nerfed not to make us look bad because revamp blessed us dearly... I still believe we are more useful in raids then that scout ((hehe)) and we are [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] more usefull then that warlock/wizzy and Necro/conjurer in raids I mean think about it we give most power out of all CLASSES in game...YES more then bards/coercers... <font color="#cc0033">As for Nerfs</font> They are seriously nerfing us wtih LU#16 and well I think that we are getting it the worst this time and they better make up for our broken root and mez if they so do it, I mean thats our defense with out that its like we get hit everytime unlike other people **lifts elbows and directly points elbow tip at conjurers/necros** we do not have a massive pet that kicks serious but as we go AFK in group nor do we have massive DPS to kill things in three hits **yawns and points his index finger at the wizzy quitely reading a how to kill something in two hit for dummies book**...Please be cautious on what you nerf on us you guys do work in SAN DIEGO...**Grins evily** **Puts his finger on lower lip** mini me come here **the dwarven personae follows him to his quest** Ardin Abysmal ~~52 Rainbowthrower~          ~~Runnyeye~

[zit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Legionus149 wrote:<BR>dev's = Don't Ever Voice, Seriously<BR><FONT color=#ff99cc><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ff99cc>As for Raids</FONT><BR>Seems like every time we raise a finger or raise a hand we get nerfed not to make us look bad because revamp blessed us dearly...<BR>I still believe we are more useful in raids then that scout ((hehe)) and we are [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] more usefull then that warlock/wizzy and Necro/conjurer in raids I mean think about it we give most power out of all CLASSES in game...YES more then bards/coercers...<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Good to know. So if we go for raid just replace all those scouts and warlocks and wizzy and necros, conjuror, bards and coercers with illusionist as we are so much more useful. I mean think about it, we can power regen! tTats all what you really need to win. Seriously. The mobs will flee in terror already when they see the hord of illusionists approching ... otherwise they risk to die from laughing when we gonna smite them with our uber nukes.  :smileytongue:

[Manyak]

<DIV>when fighting the sentinel of truth in majdul its aoe reflected off my spellshield and aggrod the 30 or so majdul citizens and coin guards that were around us. so its not only t5 stuff <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>