Doppleganger: More than just an Illusion?

[MillsFairchild]

It's clear that the Dopple is an Illusion of yourself with whatever equipment you have on when you summon it.  But what I'm not entirely clear on is whether or not that equipment has an effect on the Dopple's performance.  I've heard claims on this board that it does, so the other day I decided to play around with weapon selection and see if I could clear it up. <i><font size="2">* Numbers are approximate off the top of my head, but it should get the point across.</font></i> First, I summoned up the Personae while holding a Pristine Magic Imbued Cedar Wand and Tarton's Wheel.  Over ~200 hits, the pet's <b>average crushing damage was 118</b>. Next, I equipped Hierophant's Crook and resummoned the Personae.  Over ~200 hits, the pet's <b>average crushing damage was 115</b>.  In addition, the proc on the Crook never went off. In all practical sense, the damage done with each weapon, a 1-hander and a 2-hander, was exactly the same.  That combined with the fact that the Crook proc never fired leads me to believe that the pet isn't actually using those weapons, but instead just <i>appears </i>to be using them.  Checking the delay with which he hit didn't reveal much, since the pet tends to cast frequently... rendering delay just about meaningless. In both cases, <b>the Personae was doing crushing damage</b>.  I haven't yet equipped a Dagger to determine if <i>the type of damage </i>changes with weapons. I'd also like to test whether or not armor makes a difference in it's tanking abilities.  For example, does switching to a set of +agi gear when summoning the Personae raise it's avoidance?  Judging from the weapons test, I assume it doesn't. <div></div>

[Sug]

<DIV>Well I recently purchased a robe that has the imbue that heals you for 45 hps and has a 5% chance to go off(forget the name).   Mine will go off every once in a while, typically every 4 to 5 solo mobs, just becasue i pulled agro off my pet.    I have yet to see it on my pet.  I am assuming that I will see green + numbers over his head, but have yet to see them.    One time i did notice my pet seemed to be getting healed in the middle of a fight, but then again, I only noticed that once, and it was just that his health bar was going up slightly, not any green numbers over his head.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I did purchase a stronger (more damage) 2 handed crush to equip while I summoned him.   I put back on my 1 handed crush and stein after he is summoned and he appears with the 2 handed weopon as long as I dont zone.   I noticed no difference in melee damage.   Typically 85-110 damage with the 2 handed or the 1 handed.   This is assuming that me putting back on my other weopon doesnt change this even though the Illusion is with a two handed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My over all assumptions right now is that we melee the same with no matter what we have on.  </DIV>

[SunT]

<DIV>I was just going to post about this...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no sang feedback for my pet either.  In a typical fight I should see it 1-3 times like I do when I tank.  It is not in my parse log once for the pet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think we really need an answer on this issue.  If it does not matter what I am wearing then I need to re-outfit myself.  I have been using all AGI and STA gear still so the Pet will have better mele capability.  </DIV>

[Roxxanne]

<P>My parsing did not show a consistent increase in crushing damage on the Personae, equipped with a pristine imbued cedar wand, before/after training up my crushing skill from 135 to 240.  Before the update raised our crushing cap, I was at 135, and parsed the personae doing 85 to 120 avg hit in fights against solo EF mobs.  Then I did a long harclaves session to raise my crushing to 240 (was level 48 at this time, using adept 3 personae).  In parses against EF solo mobs after that at 240 crushing, was still seeing average hits in the 85 to 120 range.  This is further support for the hypothesis that the personae's melee damage is not really affected by our own melee skill/weapon.   I cant say for sure there was no improvement, but it certainly was not a clear improvement from sampling the avg hits from fights before and after the skills upgrade.</P> <P>My own melee damage certainly improved a lot after the harclaves session, although I still cant see any reason for us to melee if we have power and the mobs arent immune or highly resistant for some reason.  This is as it should be, in my opinion.</P> <p>Message Edited by Roxxanne on <span class=date_text>09-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:52 AM</span>

[MillsFairchild]

Ok - So it looks like our pet is what it is.  What we equip it <i>seems </i>to have no effect on anything other than it's appearance. Testing the effect of armor on the pet is a difficult task.  It would take many, many fights against the same mobs to produce any reliable data regarding STR and AGI.  As far as +STA gear goes, I remember reading that the Personae has a fixed HP pool... so I don't think STA would do anything for it. <div></div>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>MillsFairchild wrote:Ok - So it looks like our pet is what it is.  What we equip it <i>seems </i>to have no effect on anything other than it's appearance. Testing the effect of armor on the pet is a difficult task.  It would take many, many fights against the same mobs to produce any reliable data regarding STR and AGI.  As far as +STA gear goes, I remember reading that the Personae has a fixed HP pool... so I don't think STA would do anything for it. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Just compare it naked to fullly equiped vs. a mob. If it takes the same damage, then obviously it's just a pet, and not a doppleganger at all.

[Tarkadal]

<DIV>Just to add my 2 cents.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a level 28 enchanter who I took into Harclaves in order to work on my piercing. While I didn't run any parses, I can guarantee you that the combat spam indicated that it was hitting for <STRONG><EM>crushing</EM></STRONG> damage while wielding a pristine forged carbonite ritual dagger.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It has nothing to do with the weapon I was wielding when the persona was summoned either, as I haven't been able to find a good crushing weapon on the vendor in weeks, and thus don't even have one in my inventory.</DIV>

[Lonw]

Our Personae only looks like us. it is not us. It does not have a copy of our gear. It only looks like it does. it's stats are solely based upon your level and it's quality rating (adept, master etc). You can be naked or fully fabled when you summon it and it will make no difference whatsoever. It is a pet. A gosh darn handsome one, but a just pet. It is not you. The only difference between our pet and other's is that we have a limited control over it's appearance. It hits with innate-pet-weapon-037 (or whatever), which is crushing in our case. It casts spells from it's own list, always at the quality rating of the summon spell (adept, master etc). If you have a master 2 nuke, but an app 1 personae, it will cast that nuke at app1. I just wish I had a way to filter what it was doing, I cant seem to isolate pet spells and damage to their own tab. <div></div>

[Belizarius]

My pet is more handsome than your pet, tho...

[Barakas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MillsFairchild wrote:<BR>Ok - So it looks like our pet is what it is.  What we equip it <I>seems </I>to have no effect on anything other than it's appearance.<BR><BR>Testing the effect of armor on the pet is a difficult task.  It would take many, many fights against the same mobs to produce any reliable data regarding STR and AGI.  As far as +STA gear goes, I remember reading that the Personae has a fixed HP pool... so I don't think STA would do anything for it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Just compare it naked to fullly equiped vs. a mob. If it takes the same damage, then obviously it's just a pet, and not a doppleganger at all.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I did the naked dopple versus non-naked dopple test last night.  Unfortunately I couldn't really see a difference between the two <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Silly me for assuming it was a duplicate since it wears the same clothes....so much for buying that 2nd suit of armor to carry around and switch into before summoning my dopple.</P> <P>Sad and Heartbroken in Oasis,</P> <P>Sakarab<BR></P>

[SunT]

<P>I can't wait until the group illusion is fixed.  Never thought I would say that, but I have a good idea.</P> <P>Cast Group Human, turns me into a female human, then put on a different graphic robe or ceremonial Armor would even be better, then cast Dopple, drop Illusion...</P> <P>And I have a Hottie tank servant...a gnomes dream come true.</P> <DIV>Too bad we can't name our pet like the pet classes can.  I have a few politically incorrect idea's.</DIV>

[PigLick]

<span><blockquote><hr>SunTsu wrote:<p>I can't wait until the group illusion is fixed.  Never thought I would say that, but I have a good idea.</p> <p>Cast Group Human, turns me into a female human, then put on a different graphic robe or ceremonial Armor would even be better, then cast Dopple, drop Illusion...</p> <p>And I have a Hottie tank servant...a gnomes dream come true.</p> <div>Too bad we can't name our pet like the pet classes can.  I have a few politically incorrect idea's.</div><hr></blockquote>I thought I read that the dopple will always look like your "true" self, no matter what form you're in when you create it? PigLick</span><div></div>

[KaynanEmberwood]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>PigLickJF wrote:<span>I thought I read that the dopple will always look like your "true" self, no matter what form you're in when you create it? PigLick</span><div></div><hr></blockquote> If we try to use a self-only illusion and summon the pet, it retains our true form.  Our group illusions affect our pets, so the thought here is that you can summon the pet, then cast group illusion and simply remove it's effect from yourself.  You look like you, and your pet looks like the illusion. I'm sure it will work, but group illusions have been broken for as long as we've had our doppelganger so there's no saying for sure.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by KaynanEmberwood on <span class=date_text>09-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:30 AM</span>