Call to arms!

[Scally W]

<DIV>Please read this thread:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=46107" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=46107</A></DIV>

[Scally W]

Changed the original post to ask for the numbers to be posted there.  Let the testing begin!

[yodas_bud]

I totally support this, its a really good idea and look forward to the results.  Do you have any data yet?

[Morphine]

<DIV>A few people that posted some DPS results posted bad data.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To understand the value of an enchanter to a group, DPS isn't the number you look at.  The only number that counts is XP per hour over a given gaming session.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Downtime comes in various forms in this game:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Power regening between fights:    So you have T5 drinks.  Most DPS people will still use 50% or more of their power during a fight.   That means down time waiting for it to come back.  Clarity makes it so there is no down time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Death of a party member:  I can't tell you the number of times that my stuns have saved a party member.  AE stun, followed by a single target stun, healer saved, things back under control.  XP keeps rolling in.  Death means downtime for rebuffing, not to mention the XP debt for the sub 50 crowd.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wipes:   A group with an enchanter will wipe less than one without.    This is the biggest difference maker IMO when it comes to XP per hour.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another thing the illusionist offers is exploring.  Many people like to play the safe easy places.  For them, the need for an enchanter just may not be there.  But some people, the more adventurous types like to push the envelope.  They like to do things that other groups wouldn't even try.  An enchanter makes this possible.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a raiding enchanter and I use most of my spell lines every evening.   Mez is used in some fights, not others.  Power drain is used in some fights, not others.  We have the ability to adapt to most situations in the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could care less whether we get more DPS or not.  I would prefer more things that hit raid mobs though.  That would be nice. </DIV>

[Morphine]

<P>Most XP groups I saw while leveling were made up of 2 healers, 2 tank types, 2 pure DPS types.  They needed the MT, then an off tank in case of adds, a couple healers to keep everyone up, 2 DPS to do the damage.  If groups decided to go with only 1 tank or 1 healer, they risked increased chances of death and complete wipes if anything ever went wrong.</P> <P> </P> <P>With an enchanter, it was 1 MT, 1 healer, 1 enchanter, 3 pure DPS.  With the enchanter to take care of any adds, you only need 1 melee.  With the added power regen, you only need 1 healer.</P> <P> </P> <P>Compare those 2 XP groups and see who does the most XP over a given 3-4 hour gaming session.  I'd put my money on group #2.  There is a reason my screen lit up with tells upon logging in every day pre 50.  People that XP'd with me knew they were getting more XP faster that night if I was in their group.  More XP and more loot, less deaths, repairs costs and debt.</P>

[roarfrost]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MorphineEQ wrote:<BR> <DIV>To understand the value of an enchanter to a group, DPS isn't the number you look at.  <STRONG>The only number that counts is XP per hour over a given gaming session.<BR></STRONG> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I totally agree. I wish more enchanters would read over your whole post. With a (good) Enchanter in the group, the xp flys in much faster than without.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Downtime becomes nonexistant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Pins]

<span><blockquote><hr>roarfrost wrote: <blockquote> <hr> MorphineEQ wrote: <div>To understand the value of an enchanter to a group, DPS isn't the number you look at.  <strong>The only number that counts is XP per hour over a given gaming session.</strong> <hr> </div></blockquote> <div>I totally agree. I wish more enchanters would read over your whole post. With a (good) Enchanter in the group, the xp flys in much faster than without.</div> <div> </div> <div>Downtime becomes nonexistant.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>What if we aren't playing the game for the XP in game, but exploring the game.  XP isn't the only thing that matters in this game, so please, stop using this as a reason why we're so [Removed for Content].  What happens when we hit 50 and have no XP to gain?  That'd mean we're still [Removed for Content], and we aren't useful because, well, nobody wants to gain XP. Your XP argument is akin to saying a Sorcerer should nuke all the way up to 50, then do 0 damage afterwards.</span><div></div>

[MillsFairchild]

<span><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>roarfrost wrote: <blockquote> <hr> MorphineEQ wrote: <div>To understand the value of an enchanter to a group, DPS isn't the number you look at.  <strong>The only number that counts is XP per hour over a given gaming session.</strong> <hr> </div></blockquote> <div>I totally agree. I wish more enchanters would read over your whole post. With a (good) Enchanter in the group, the xp flys in much faster than without.</div> <div> </div> <div>Downtime becomes nonexistant.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>What if we aren't playing the game for the XP in game, but exploring the game.  XP isn't the only thing that matters in this game, so please, stop using this as a reason why we're so [Removed for Content].  What happens when we hit 50 and have no XP to gain?  That'd mean we're still [Removed for Content], and we aren't useful because, well, nobody wants to gain XP. Your XP argument is akin to saying a Sorcerer should nuke all the way up to 50, then do 0 damage afterwards.</span><hr></blockquote>But wouldn't xp per hour be a direct indication of our ability to enchance a group's general effectiveness? Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems that </span><span><span> MorphineEQ has made the most valid point I've seen in regards to measuring our usefulness.  And that's not to say we don't need to be looked at... I absolutely believe we're gimped in certain conditions.  I'm just saying that it's a good indicator. </span></span><div></div>

[Morphine]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>What if we aren't playing the game for the XP in game, but exploring the game.  XP isn't the only thing that matters in this game, so please, stop using this as a reason why we're so [Removed for Content].  What happens when we hit 50 and have no XP to gain?  That'd mean we're still [Removed for Content], and we aren't useful because, well, nobody wants to gain XP.<BR><BR>Your XP argument is akin to saying a Sorcerer should nuke all the way up to 50, then do 0 damage afterwards.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>If exploration is what you want, then an Illusionist is just the class for you.  Between our group invis and being the best mezzer in the game, our groups can do and see things that average groups can't.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our utility is what makes us such a valuable class in this game.</DIV>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>MillsFairchild wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>roarfrost wrote: <blockquote> <hr> MorphineEQ wrote: <div>To understand the value of an enchanter to a group, DPS isn't the number you look at.  <strong>The only number that counts is XP per hour over a given gaming session.</strong> <hr> </div></blockquote> <div>I totally agree. I wish more enchanters would read over your whole post. With a (good) Enchanter in the group, the xp flys in much faster than without.</div> <div> </div> <div>Downtime becomes nonexistant.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>What if we aren't playing the game for the XP in game, but exploring the game.  XP isn't the only thing that matters in this game, so please, stop using this as a reason why we're so [Removed for Content].  What happens when we hit 50 and have no XP to gain?  That'd mean we're still [Removed for Content], and we aren't useful because, well, nobody wants to gain XP. Your XP argument is akin to saying a Sorcerer should nuke all the way up to 50, then do 0 damage afterwards.</span><hr></blockquote>But wouldn't xp per hour be a direct indication of our ability to enchance a group's general effectiveness? Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems that </span><span><span> MorphineEQ has made the most valid point I've seen in regards to measuring our usefulness.  And that's not to say we don't need to be looked at... I absolutely believe we're gimped in certain conditions.  I'm just saying that it's a good indicator. </span></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>So, wait, if downtime is "non-existant" with a good chanter, what exactly is that chanter doing besides casting breeze? Considering the terribleness of our power costs on our spells, I'm always out of power during fights, even with Insight going.Drain Will at the start, 226 power, mind drain, another 121 power, that's before we even have 1 tic of breeze/natural regen. Self-buff I'm up to 2900 power at lv49, 347 power used before even 1 tic of insight. Toss dismay(76 power, decent cost finally), and we've reached 1 tic. 423 power used, 46 tic on insight(adept I), and 29 tic for natural, 75 total, so 348 used. And I've done no health damage, just about 280 power drain. Toss in Wither Hope and Lobotimize, that's 198 power more used, another tic of regen, 471 power used now.Now it's been 12.5 seconds(2s cast, 0.5s recovery while we can't cast on each spell), so I toss in my another mind drain and my 2 twiddling nukes Scorching Beam, and Aneursym, 481 more power used, and 9.5s more have passed, 22s in, another tic, 877 power used now. Refresh DoTs time, 198 more power, 5s, plus dismay of course, so make it 274 power, 2.5s more too. Up to 29.5s, so another tic has passed and another is about to, 1076 power, toss Mind Drain in, and the tic hits, 32s, 1122 power. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], 32s into the battle and I've already used 39% of my power. I'll probably continue this cycle for the next 32s, using another 1122 power, and the battle should end.And guess what I'm now at 78% power used. Anyway, onto out of combat regen with T5 drink assumed and insight still up. 29*4+46+75, 237/tic. It'll take me nearly a minute to regen, so I'm wondering about this whole we actually make groups downtimer lower, because even with drink and insight, it's still taking quite a time for me to regen. Lets look at what I'd do without insight though.2707 Power, no insight. So 2244 power usage, 10 tics of 46 more used, so 460 more power used. 2704 power used, crap I'm OOP, so yah Breeze is nice, specially for us of course. But as for downtime, meeeeh. It's about the same with a chanter, and without. Drink basically makes downtime lowered. We don't really help downtime very much. 46/tic isn't that much, considering T5 High Drink is 75/tic, and assuming 2500 power, people regen 100/tic already. 25% increase with insight if already drinking.I just don't feel the difference is substantial enough to make it a big deal. But it's also really hard to test.

[MillsFairchild]

<span><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<blockquote><hr>MillsFairchild wrote:<span>But wouldn't xp per hour be a direct indication of our ability to enchance a group's general effectiveness? Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems that </span><span><span> MorphineEQ has made the most valid point I've seen in regards to measuring our usefulness.  And that's not to say we don't need to be looked at... I absolutely believe we're gimped in certain conditions.  I'm just saying that it's a good indicator. </span></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>So, wait, if downtime is "non-existant" with a good chanter, what exactly is that chanter doing besides casting breeze? Considering the terribleness of our power costs on our spells, I'm always out of power during fights, even with Insight going. <font color="#ffff00">... and point out to me where I said downtime is non-existant?</font>Drain Will at the start, 226 power, mind drain, another 121 power, that's before we even have 1 tic of breeze/natural regen. Self-buff I'm up to 2900 power at lv49, 347 power used before even 1 tic of insight. Toss dismay(76 power, decent cost finally), and we've reached 1 tic. 423 power used, 46 tic on insight(adept I), and 29 tic for natural, 75 total, so 348 used. And I've done no health damage, just about 280 power drain. Toss in Wither Hope and Lobotimize, that's 198 power more used, another tic of regen, 471 power used now.Now it's been 12.5 seconds(2s cast, 0.5s recovery while we can't cast on each spell), so I toss in my another mind drain and my 2 twiddling nukes Scorching Beam, and Aneursym, 481 more power used, and 9.5s more have passed, 22s in, another tic, 877 power used now. Refresh DoTs time, 198 more power, 5s, plus dismay of course, so make it 274 power, 2.5s more too. Up to 29.5s, so another tic has passed and another is about to, 1076 power, toss Mind Drain in, and the tic hits, 32s, 1122 power. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], 32s into the battle and I've already used 39% of my power. I'll probably continue this cycle for the next 32s, using another 1122 power, and the battle should end.And guess what I'm now at 78% power used. Anyway, onto out of combat regen with T5 drink assumed and insight still up. 29*4+46+75, 237/tic. It'll take me nearly a minute to regen, so I'm wondering about this whole we actually make groups downtimer lower, because even with drink and insight, it's still taking quite a time for me to regen. Lets look at what I'd do without insight though. <font color="#ffff00">You fail to take into account the Siphon Self line of spells.  But it's not just about your power use/regeneration, anyway.  It's about the group's ability to finish fights with more power collectively.  That includes not only your ability to regen power faster for the group, but your ability to mitigate damage (through stuns, stifles, and mezzing) to keep the healer from having to blow all his power on heals and the tank from having to blow all his power on taunting adds.  It's a balancing act.  And I'm not really ready to claim that it's more effective to have us in a group than a pure DPS... I'm just saying that there's more to take into account that you aren't talking about here. </font>2707 Power, no insight. So 2244 power usage, 10 tics of 46 more used, so 460 more power used. 2704 power used, crap I'm OOP, so yah Breeze is nice, specially for us of course. But as for downtime, meeeeh. It's about the same with a chanter, and without. Drink basically makes downtime lowered. We don't really help downtime very much. 46/tic isn't that much, considering T5 High Drink is 75/tic, and assuming 2500 power, people regen 100/tic already. 25% increase with insight if already drinking.I just don't feel the difference is substantial enough to make it a big deal. But it's also really hard to test. <font color="#ffff00">You're right.  It's hard to test each specific piece of the puzzle.  But I still feel that xp per hour would be a good 'general' indicator.</font><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Morphine]

<P>As a rule of thumb, I try to match my power use to the healers power level.  If other people are low on power, you don't have to stop pulls really, except the MT.  If he gets low on power, let him know to match his power level to yours.</P> <P> </P> <P>If the healer is having to heal alot, I use my spells which help decrease the healers power use, stuns, stifles.   If the healer isn't having to heal a lot, then I change to damage dealing, but once again trying to match my power level to theirs.</P> <P>The overall goal is that we can pull mobs non-stop without breaks in between.  Steady, non-stop XP rolling in.   Some people call it grinding.  I like to call it the most effecient use of time that I had allotted to XP that evening.</P>

[yodas_bud]

<P>Can someone do a comprehensive scientific test?  It'd make sense to have a time period for the test, say 2 hours.  This would need to be in an xping zone with pretty constant distance between groups to keep it fair.  Then within that the 2 hour test time the in and out of combat sub times would also be recorded.   Try quite a few tests and see what the (time fighting) : (regen time) ratio is (assuming distance betwen groups as constant therefore negligible).  If you do enough tests with and without an enchanter in the same zone at similar level then we'll find out how much we allow xp 'grinding' to improve.  Recording the total xp gain over the test too would take into account our other uses too like mezzing adds and reducing the chance of the group dying, etc... Does that seem ok?  Its just quite a remote chance that someone has an enchanter and alt at the same level with access to the same xping zone with the same group for each... Hum.  It needs the test server!</P>

[Orki who Pos]

<P><FONT size=3>How to get fast xp post 35..</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>1: Invite/play a sorcerer</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>2: Invite a warden/cleric, wardens preferred since they taunt better and cleric heals are overkill.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>Go kill yellow/orange group mobs without barrage. (nymphs in rv, as an example)</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>If you want mobs with barrage or are afraid of adds:</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>3: invite a tank, preferably a high damage one.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>You cant beat that kind of xp without exploiting, with the current state of the game. It's all about pushing damage into the mobs while not dying, end of story.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>Downtime is rather irelevant, when less than half a sorcerers power bar is burnt on an orange group.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>In a duo like the above i can <STRONG>easily</STRONG> do a level in 8 hours without vitality, and in about 4 hours with vitality. (And blue/green gear)</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>Now try getting up to that speed in a normal group, including the time it takes to form the group, set up, and so on.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>If you want to compare with a full group, just add more sorcerers, it is however not efficient, since with more than 2 sorcerers, more time is spent pulling the mobs than killing them.</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>What an enchanter does is let you take on harder content, or more at the same time, but.. this has exactly no point when xp'ing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>PS: The warden should be nuking too.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>PPS: </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>For the scientificically minded, you can more or less equate group dps with xp over time if you dont die, with the above duo i can sustain a group dps of 150ish, including all downtimes. (250-300 during the actual fights are common at 40)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>The result is that any class doing less than about 200 dps in combat will be slowing down the xp gain over time, this includes enchanters realistically geared tanks, most scouts and conjurors.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Orki who Posts on <span class=date_text>05-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:07 PM</span>

[roarfrost]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Orki who Posts wrote:<BR> <P><FONT size=3>How to get fast xp post 35..</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>1: Invite/play a <STRIKE>sorcerer</STRIKE> <FONT color=#33ccff>Warlock</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>2: Invite a warden/cleric, wardens preferred since they taunt better and cleric heals are overkill.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>Downtime is rather irelevant, when less than half a <STRIKE>sorcerers </STRIKE><FONT color=#33ccff>Warlock's</FONT> power bar is burnt on an orange group.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There, I corrected it for you.<BR>No way that a Wizard's power bar is only half gone killing an orange group mob. <BR></P>

[roarfrost]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR>But as for downtime, meeeeh. It's about the same with a chanter, and without. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I cannot and will not believe this, at least with Coercers. Couldn't say for sure for Illusionists, havent grouped with enough.</P> <P>Whenever I have had a high level Coercer in the group with my Wizard, I can totally dump mana continously and still have full power or near full power at the end of a fight. Wizard power costs are terrible, and to still have full mana?</P> <P>Without the Corecer in the mix, I have to go back to converting power from health, manastone, downtime, etc.</P> <P>/shrug</P>

[Orki who Pos]

<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT size=3>Roarfrost, the devil is in the details...</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>Our wizard is off camping a manarobe, after that he can do it too, but from 30 to 38.99 wizards does fall behind on the nuking power.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>He does take a bright view on things thou, knowing that eventually, and with both a mana robe and gebs, he will be ahead of the warlock, so it's more of a temporary problem. :o)</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <DIV><FONT size=3>At 38 the wizard has about 75% of the damage output, using 150% of the mana or so. :o)</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Orki who Posts on <span class=date_text>05-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:12 PM</span>

[roarfrost]

<DIV>Yeah, I don't want to argue or make it a Wiz vs. Warlock thread, just pointing out that the Wiz power costs are very high on anything worth casting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have the Robe of the Invoker, its great, but 20/tick still isn't going to let you have half of your power after fighting an orange^^.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Pins]

<span>Did you read the rest of my post?  How the fact that if I even choose to do some damage I'm going to be down to 500 power out of a 2900 power pool in a minute?  Yes i'm aware it will help wizards, but the downtime will still be absolutely dung for the chanter, who if the battle takes more than a minute, will probably be oop, and be using manastone, siphon self, consume ego to get some power back.  Downtime will be the same, unless you have a chanter in your group who is sitting there twiddling their fingers playing a) buffbot, b) mezbot, or c) drain+mezbot.  If you don't try to do damage as a chanter, you're going to be lowering downtime slightly, however, you will also be inreasing battle time, which would negate the downtime decrease by the battle duration. However, if the chanter decides to go all out,  The downtime will increase, battles will decrease, putting you right back where you were.  This is from what I've experienced during my play. </span><div></div>

[Gorkk00]

<div></div><span>Pinski at the point I think. I experience kinda the same. There's two type of fights when in a group: those where mob is killed so fast i barely had the time to cast a spell, and here mana regen from our breeze line has no use, and those where i end having used at least twice more power than any other in group. In the second type of fights, downtime end to be longer than if i hadn't been here breezing the group. The only way downtime can be shorter is that i don't do anything besides beeing a buff bot, how exciting... And replace me with any other class and downtime will always be shorter... But still people find me useful in their groups, but what i can do is not fun for me... And soloing? well, that's a joke for us, or we're talking about soloing grey mobs <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. In addition, with the recent changes with mobs chances to hit, and the removal of the effect of parry for us, i can't even play safely at level 32 with my 29 wizzie broth in CoB against groups of 3 regular agonizing essences green for me (would be grey if i was solo), because with 3-4 hits they kill me, and i'm interrupt so often i can barely cast 3 spells in the fight. So no thank you, for now i only play my illus to be buff bot for guild in some low level raids or to help (still buff bot) for some heritages (nek castle, varsoon, etc.). [Edit] by the way, a level 27 not overgeared dirge can solo them, ending with half power and 3/4 life...<blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<span>Did you read the rest of my post?  How the fact that if I even choose to do some damage I'm going to be down to 500 power out of a 2900 power pool in a minute?  Yes i'm aware it will help wizards, but the downtime will still be absolutely dung for the chanter, who if the battle takes more than a minute, will probably be oop, and be using manastone, siphon self, consume ego to get some power back.  Downtime will be the same, unless you have a chanter in your group who is sitting there twiddling their fingers playing a) buffbot, b) mezbot, or c) drain+mezbot.  If you don't try to do damage as a chanter, you're going to be lowering downtime slightly, however, you will also be inreasing battle time, which would negate the downtime decrease by the battle duration. However, if the chanter decides to go all out,  The downtime will increase, battles will decrease, putting you right back where you were.  This is from what I've experienced during my play. </span><div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Gorkk00 on <span class=date_text>05-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:21 PM</span>

[yodas_bud]

<DIV><FONT size=2>I know its an aside but just out of interest, someone wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3300ff size=3>"He does take a bright view on things thou, knowing that eventually, and with both a mana robe and gebs, he will be ahead of the warlock, so it's more of a temporary problem. <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif" width=16 border=0>)"</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>What are gebs?!?!?!/</FONT></DIV>

[MillsFairchild]

Golden Efreeti Boots <div></div>

[roarfrost]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><SPAN>Downtime will be the same, unless you have a chanter in your group who is sitting there twiddling their fingers playing a) buffbot, b) mezbot, or c) drain+mezbot. </SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ok, so you <STRONG>don't</STRONG> want to:</P> <P>a) buff<BR>b) mez<BR>c) drain</P> <P>Tell me again why you chose this class???</P> <P>Question: What is it you want so you won't feel useless? Answer: <STRONG>You want to nuke</STRONG>. Its obvious. You want to do a great deal of DIRECT damage, in addition to the INDIRECT damage that you allow others to do. </P> <P>Indirect damage through Haste, Crowd Control, power drains, stuns, etc. aren't good enough for you. Like so many others, the only "purpose" you think you have fullfilled is when you can see big damage numbers in combatstats.</P> <P> </P>

[Tanatus]

roar orki playing coercer and so am I ... we dont give a danm about mez, but care about such things like stun, stifle, charm .... none of this work atm ... power drains aren't as good as warlock or troubadur either btw....

[God_of_Avalon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> roarfrost wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><SPAN>Downtime will be the same, unless you have a chanter in your group who is sitting there twiddling their fingers playing a) buffbot, b) mezbot, or c) drain+mezbot. </SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ok, so you <STRONG>don't</STRONG> want to:</P> <P>a) buff<BR>b) mez<BR>c) drain</P> <P>Tell me again why you chose this class???</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Wow, this post is again void of any intelligence.  </P> <P> </P> <P>a) Who WANTS to buff?  Is this some sort of awsome exciting gameplay, buffing a player?  Wow!</P> <P>b) I DO want to mezz when it helps the group.  I DON'T want to mezz when its so useless that it annoys the group.</P> <P>c) I DO want to drain if draining will make a diffrence in the fight.  You find draining a mob so that its out of power right when it dies fun?  What other wastes of time that acomplish nothing do you find fun?<BR></P>