Disappointed about illusionists solo capabilities

[Barraccu]

<DIV>I don't expect my Illusionist to be able solo group mobs. But at least I expect me being able to solo those mobs that are marked as solo. But I barely can.<BR>May defence and parry skill are maxed. My equipment is more then adequate (2200 AC at level 30). But I have big difficulty do solo white and yellow con solo mobs. I have even more difficulty to solo those single and double arrow downs deers in Enchanted Lands. Those are level 31 and 32 and come in groups of 3. They are marked as solo mobs but they repeatedly have killed me. I can somewhat solo the level 31 and 32 turtles and the level 32 beetle drones, but it is very slow. I always drain the mobs with speechless so they don’t have any special attacks, but it is not uncommon that my hitpoints (all 1100 of it) are down to below 200 after a fight.<BR>At the same time I am watching other classes of level 27 to mow through this mobs in no time. Those characters are 3 levels below me and they kill at least 3 times as many mobs in the same time as I do.<BR>The main reason for the bad soloing capabilities is that root is breaking far too often. It's not uncommon that root break immediately after has stuck on the mob (it's not resisted). The resist rate itself seems ok, I don't expect root to stick every time, but when it sticks I expect it to stick at least as long as I don't cast any other spells on the mob or the time runs out. I am aware the a root has a chance to break if I cast a damage spell on the mob, I have no problem with that, I can adjust my tactic to that. But the root breaks more then 50% of the time when the mob is NOT taking any damage neither from a DoT spell nor from a DD spell. </DIV> <DIV>This leads me to the conclusion that the solo abilities of Illusionists are sub-par.<BR>If I work very concentrated and don't loose any time with being afk, I can get about 3-4% xp in one hour of soloing. I don't know what the developers deem suitable as exp-gaining rate for solo adventurers, but theses seems a little on the weak side.<BR></DIV>

[Jaxidi]

<DIV>There are some bugs with roots right now.  Hopefully they'll be fixed soon....</DIV>

[Xanta]

<DIV>I am not having any problems with my binding light, however I dont expect it to keep the mob chained down for extended period of times. I drain power and throw DoTs. Then use my binding light to give me enough time to start the HO. When I finish the HO, i usually get hit once, but the mob doesnt have any power so it isntreally that bad. Also you have Entrance and Stupify if Binding Light breaks. </DIV>

[Sotaudi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xantara wrote:<BR> <DIV>I am not having any problems with my binding light, however I dont expect it to keep the mob chained down for extended period of times. I drain power and throw DoTs. Then use my binding light to give me enough time to start the HO. When I finish the HO, i usually get hit once, but the mob doesnt have any power so it isntreally that bad. Also you have Entrance and Stupify if Binding Light breaks. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The problem is that many people, including myself, are finding that Binding Light does not hold the MoB for much of anything.  It is either ignored outright or it is broken very shortly after casting.  Binding Light is a full-on root.  It is supposed to hold the MoB for an extended period of time.  Right now, it often does not hold any longer than Stupefy whereas it should, more often than not, hold long enough for the DoTs to wear off.  Before the patch, this was it's behavior.  Now, it often does not hold long enough to get off one more spell.  There is a definite problem with roots right now.  (Note:  Ego Shock's root effect is also being ignored or broken almost immediately.)

[Bunglem]

<DIV>I had a great time soloing the orcs in Zek over the weekend.  Stacking 4 dots + orc strike + DD = quick orc death.  I got comparable exp while soloing as I would have gotten in a normal group for that same amount of time.  There was definitely a problem with root breaking, but it's nothing too hard to handle if you're careful.  Just remember that orc marauders are about twice the strength of tallon grunts, so be careful with those...  with the grunts and that AC (sounds just slightly lower than mine if I remember correctly) you can easily get hit 4-5 times without going too low on hp.  But with marauders you don't want to get hit more than about twice...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, the key is to utilize your stuns in addition to your root.  Stupefy gives you plenty of time to back up and cast root again, and Daunting Gaze will just allow you to annihilate the orc without rooting at all.  Unfortunately DG stops working at like 32, so I know my solo capabilities will go way down after I lose that spell.  Also, don't bother trying to root yellows.  I had to stick to fighting white/blue mobs because yellow mobs would break root within 1 second every time I cast it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So yea, we do have solo capabilities, at least at level 31.  Using T4 food + fozzins + mana > hp spell when I needed, I was able to almost clear the entire gate area of orcs a few times.</DIV>

[Oghi]

<DIV>Soloing at 40 is a lot harder than it was at 30.  I don't even try even cons anymore, sticking to blue and green.  Here is my technique:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Open with Speechless (it has an incredibly long casting range, allowing me to pull to safe spots)</DIV> <DIV>2) When critter is in range for it, stun with Uncertainty</DIV> <DIV>3) Root with Lock Mind</DIV> <DIV>4) If necessary, another Speechless</DIV> <DIV>5) DoT with Nightmare, Tormenting Visions and Gloom</DIV> <DIV>6) Begin HO's, renewing Nightmare as needed</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Every 2nd or 3rd fight, I use my shiny new Construct of Light as an additional DoT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It works, but it's slow and still dangerous.  A couple early resists get me beaten up pretty badly, and I've given up on using root extensively.  What makes it worse is that I am currently soloing in Feerot, where it appears that every single solo critter is warrior-based.  We are best against mage or priest-based monsters, for they have less melee capability when powerless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wonder how we're going to solo when Speechless stops working?  Hopefully, the first expansion will contain a true heir to this spell, not that imposter named Mind Drain.  Either that or an impressive self-rune.</DIV>

[Zulsak]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Have to agree with the OP. I am level 29 and soloing is really hard. There is no doubt that binding light is broken. I hope they look at this soon.</FONT></DIV>

[Gyrml]

<DIV>I am level 38 and I am not having any problems soloing white, yellows and oranges. Since my Psychic Assailant has been pretty much working everytime lately this is what I have been doing...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Psychic Assailant to start the fight.  If it does not work mez.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wait for Psychic Assailant to come back and Hit the HO and Psychic Assailant again.  If he does not get mezzed by Psychic Assailant than either stun and nuke him or mez.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then finish the HO with anything you can except a dot and mez again.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have found that this is working a lot better for me than trying to play the root, stun, dot, drain game.  With Breeze always on I only lose about half my mana and barely any life while soloing  white, yellows and oranges!  Plus I am not even down two bubbles of life!  It may take a little longer to kill them, but it has been very safe for me so far.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Try it and let me know if it works for you.  Different lvls may not see the same things that I am seeing with Psychic Assailant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Gyrmloq on <SPAN class=date_text>02-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:33 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Gyrmloq on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:41 PM</span>

[CynicalO]

<DIV>I just started an erudite enchanter on Lucan D'Lere and I'm not at all surprised to hear that you guys are sturggling with soloing as illusionists.  In EQ1 if you were a chanter you didn't solo, period.  People didn't play enchanters because of their durability or overwhelming power.  The enchanter appeal is the great level of difficulty to play and the skill required to do their job in the group.  Enchanters are for those who enjoy a more cerebral gaming style that requires greater subtelty, nuance and skill to maintain a delicate job that can easily go awry.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cynekul</DIV> <DIV>Lucan D'Lere</DIV>

[Oghi]

<DIV>In EQ2, all classes are supposed to be able to solo with similar degrees of success, all the way to 50.  While nobody probably picked an enchanter because they thought it the best solo class, comparisons to EQ1 are more misleading than they are helpful.</DIV>

[Barraccu]

<DIV>Maybe I did not write clear enough what my problem is.<BR>I have never said that us chanters can't solo, we can solo, no doubt of that, BUT compared to other classes it is slow and dangerous.<BR>With the correct technique we can solo, but it takes so long to kill a mob safely that the exp per time ratio pretty much sucks.<BR>I have seen shadowknights, dirges, rogues and other classes who have been 2-3 level below me solo the same mobs that I do and kill three times as many mobs in the same time then I did. If you even take into account that they get even more exp per kill because they are lower level AND they can kill them faster you can see that chanters solo capabilities are on the low end.<BR>If the developer really want to balance classes so that each classe has about the same solo potential then they have to think of ways to improve the solo capabilities of chanters to get them on the same level of other classes.<BR></DIV>

[Bunglem]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CynicalOne wrote:<BR> <DIV>I just started an erudite enchanter on Lucan D'Lere and I'm not at all surprised to hear that you guys are sturggling with soloing as illusionists.  <STRONG>In EQ1 if you were a chanter you didn't solo, period.</STRONG>  People didn't play enchanters because of their durability or overwhelming power.  The enchanter appeal is the great level of difficulty to play and the skill required to do their job in the group.  Enchanters are for those who enjoy a more cerebral gaming style that requires greater subtelty, nuance and skill to maintain a delicate job that can easily go awry.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cynekul</DIV> <DIV>Lucan D'Lere</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Heh, in EQ1 I charm soloed spectres and hill giants in Oasis and OOT from like 36-50.  I did group occasionally during that time, but it was mostly soloing because of the times I could play at that point.  Sure it wasn't as effective as quad kiting wizards, but I sure could rack up the exp at times.</DIV>

[Erasm]

<DIV>If it puts any kind of perspective on how much binding light is broken now, I used to solo grunts in zek non-stop much faster than jsut about any other class a few levels higher than me. I was great at solo and I could get some pretty good exp. If anything I was too good at solo. But a few mistakes and I had to run or I would die. All was good. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now Ive gone from soloing white-orange mobs to green-blue. Blues are risky, and greens cause some serious downtime( about as much as a fighter killing white or yellow mobs). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im going to try downgrading to app3 binding light. Seems everyone who has a wokring BL has it at app3. Everyone with adept 1 says its broken. </DIV>

[Althena]

<DIV>maybe try app4?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and how do you downgrade? is that possible?</DIV>

[Yendys]

First, to the person that menchioned choosing enchanter as a more cerebral play style, yea -- thats one of my reasons, but with the limits on mez (recast time) I find that frankly its not as skill based as it used to be. I remember with great delight being able to lock 6-8 mobs at a time with single target mezs and good use of AE stuns while getting it all locked down. This is no longer the case. Frankly, the mezes are so weak now that I often just say "Hell, just AE it" when a group of 3+ mobs are pulled (without any named/boss types in the group).Second, to the person who said people claimed people pick enchanter knowing lack of durability and/or power is historically the case -- I say uh, no. I constantly soloed as an enchanter in eq1 - nearly as much as I grouped. Even in the pre-expansion days it was viable and became more so as the game progressed (Dictate, than Dire Charm, than POP Charm ). In velious, I prided myself on the ablitity to solo the OOIV guy. In Luclin, I prided myself in holding the Kael Arena solo. In POP, I prided myself of cranking out 8+ aa a day soloing mobs that normally took a group to do in the elementals. After Luclin, any enchanter who was in a raiding guild certainly couldnt complain about having no durability. IF you had your defensive AAs (including stuff like the runes) and played your chanter right, you could hold aggro better than and tank marginally as well as many classes. I still recall intentionally tanking Grummus with only a minor CH chain on me (3 i think). Yeah, thats right, a Complete Heal chain... Chanters after POP could easily get past the 8k-9khp barrier. So really, I feel like alot was left out of the enchanter class or rather that SOE ignored old enchanters when creating the toons for EQ2. *SHRUG*

[Kaza]

<DIV>I must agree 100% with the first poster - with maxed parry and defense I am getting totally owned by white and blue mobs.</DIV> <DIV>I have adept1 for most spells.</DIV> <DIV>I dont expect to be a super-nuker like wizzies - but I expect to be able to solo white and blue mobs without the risk of dying on every pull should 1 spell get resisted or interupted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In Zek I watched a lvl28 healer solo a yellow/ orange con and still be 60% health, 50% power after the fight.</DIV> <DIV>When I pull the same mobs ( I am lvl31) it is touch and go if I will be reviving.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In EL, I watched a lvl31 wizzie burn a lvl31 mob loosing around 10% health and still having 60% mana - where again as a lvl31 enc I have a 50% chance of dying vs the same mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All classes should be able to solo to the same degree in the same amount of time - we can stack 4 dots - stun, root, and then nuke down a mob or 2 - yet this is v slow killing compared to other classes I am watching and a lot more dangerous - it seems that either encs suck or the way I play my enc sucks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the short term - if anyone has some tips om soloing in the early 30s please can you post here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the long term - we need a serious DPS upgrade or something to make soloing a viable solution for enchanters that puts us on a par with a character 2-3 lvls below us</DIV>

[IpseDix]

<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Maybe I did not write clear enough what my problem is.<BR>I have never said that us chanters can't solo, we can solo, no doubt of that, BUT compared to other classes it is slow and dangerous</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I totally agree with Barraccuda !!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I'm lvl 36 Illus and I usually hunt in EL and Zek: I see many lvl 30-32 hitting and killing same mobs I kill in less time and with many HPs left, much more than mine !!! </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I'm all yellow/orange/white equipped and my spells are ALL Adept1 with some Adept3 : I can solo blue and gree without any problem but my problems start with white con mobs or ANY ^^ mob, even a green con .. not mentioning blue^^ which means I'm pretty dead.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Sometime I try those blue-to-me (^^) badgers or wasps in EL at docks; I've tried different tecniques (HOs as starting spell, Speechless-root-speechless and the Dot at will ,  and some other combo) but m</FONT><FONT size=2>y results never change; I'm finishing my fight with 1 or 2 HPs bbl vs. white and green ^^ con mobs and I'm dead Vs. any blue^^ or yellow/orange mob .</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I can kill white gobbos thanks to my Mastery+ HOs effects .... but in NO WAY AT ALL I can solo a white^ or ^^ or a yellow+ mob.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>This is unfair IMHO because almost every other class in this game has no problem at all fighting against the same mobs even if they are 3 lvl below me !!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>My 2 copper</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>

[Oghi]

<DIV>I often hunt the same area as a 38th level warlock (I'm 40th).  Most of his gear is green or even grey to me.  He kills solo mobs two to three times as quickly as do I, and takes less damage when doing so.  He can kill group mobs (huuptics in Feerot) in the same time it takes me to kill one of the solo mobs.  Short of finding master spells, there are no upgrades available to me.  It's a pretty amazing contrast.</DIV>

[Kuragi]

I was soloing crabs and snakes in TS this morning. I'm level 24. they were green and blue. Binding Light seemed to be working ok most of the time. I'm going to have to try the Psychic Assailant routine, though.

[url0]

42 Enchanter (Illusionist) here. - soloing is not viable at all. Since the last major patch our dammage mitigation is gone. I personally feel this is a glaring mistake on the developers part and WILL be fixed, I cannot imagine they intended to [Removed for Content] soloing soo much for casters, I'ts really rediculious.Lag, geometry, lack of reasonable dammage output , etc... I say make a bruiser/monk if you want to solo. for now.On the plus side, I joined a high lvl guild last night and had my first experience grouping with a lvl 50 Guardian... With his buffs I was able to nearly double my HP and increase my AC by about 30%, this significantly increased my viability in the goup as I was no longer getting single shotted by lvl 49+ mobs anymore.Also of note, you can relax on mezzing, there is no real need, well with sub lvl 50 mobs, to mez, a lvl 50 guardian with ebon gear can tank EASILY 5-6 double up's at a time. and OUT DPS us too. So I was highly desired for my mana regen and haste and did not feel like a liability. My job was basically stunning, rarely mezzing , anything that agroed myself or the healer untill the guardian simply taunted it onto him. Most times when something agroed a group memeber, the guardian would turn and taunt before my mez would finish casting, so that's why I started using the faster group stun spell.Did the entire upper CT area for about 2 hours and made 40% exp with only 10% vitality when I started. Was nutz, and we started the group with just the 50 guardian a 46 templar and myself 42 chanter. Funny thing was when the healer had to reboot and we agroed a 49 glare lord, he tanked and killed it with no healer, crazy stuff how powerfull these guardians are. I loved grouping with him.

[Barraccu]

<DIV>It seems a lot of Illusionist are thinking the same, I only hope that the developers hear our plea and are thinking and implementing some things that will help us.<BR>Sometimes I DON'T want to group, I rather go solo. I just want that when I want to solo that I am not so painfully handicapped as an Illusionist compared to other classes.<BR>There are lots of testimonies in this an in other threads that this is how it is at the moment. The disparity even increases at higher levels.<BR>We have less damage mitigation, less hitpoints and less damage output then ALL other classes. And what do we get in return that help us to adventure solo? Nothing!! <BR>We are great in groups, true. People love our power regeneration, people love that we can drain power from mobs, people love that we can mezz adds, people love our haste. But all of this does help us nothing to solo.<BR>Power regeneration does not help me because we have nothing that uses power that helps us to kill mobs efficiently. So what is power regeneration useful if it does not help me killing mobs?<BR>Power drain on mobs does only help, but because of our poor damage mitigation even normal hits of mobs is killing us fast, they don’t need any special attacks.<BR>Mezz does only help us when we need to run away, when we actually want to kill a mob then mezz does not really help. True there are tactics for chain (mezz – HO- mezz), but this is SO slow to kill a mob with our poor spells that this is not a valid tactic for soloing mobs.<BR>Our haste is useless for ourselves because we can not even dream of engaging a mob in melee while soloing.<BR>That leaves the only valid tactic some mix of root/dot/stun, but with root semi-broken as it currently is and our stuns having long casting time and not really lasting long enough this is also relatively suicidal.<BR></DIV>

[Caldaini]

<DIV>Soloing is hard, but good news is, if you can grab a templar or inquisitor friend, we make great duo's with them. I could duo group whites with a templar the same level as me. And the XP is great. Beats trying to solo.</DIV>

[ke'la]

<DIV>I personally have no problem soloing at lvl 30 (I have and am taking ornge Turtles on EL) and it has not gotten any harder for me. And now that I have nightmare its even easier(I am contimplating reds) The trick is to get a good pattern down and use your roots and older spells. I start with speachless mainly for the very long range( I can get Ceribal Spasm and Binding lights off befor it gets to me) then I hit it with Nightmare and Gloom. Then HO Nuke then repeat. and if the root breakes early that is what your 2 fast stuns(Stupify et'al) then Uncertanty(long stun) Nuke and reroot. If necacary you can even cancle your dots and Mezz for a recharge. Also spend the coin on App4 or Adept 1 spells they will make your soloing much easier.</DIV>

[Caldaini]

<DIV>Oh, if you're talking about solo critters, that's quite doable. I thought you meant group mobs. Some classes can solo them better, like guardians and paladins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You actually can kill group mobs as an illusionist if you're skilled enough.  I have seen it done.</DIV>

[Ga]

<DIV>Just dinged last night soloing 37s & 38s in Rivervale( Illusionist on Faydark ). Did about 20% or 30% of level 36 doing it. I did die a few times but it was doable and a good change of pace from grouping. Root-speechless-dot-uncertainty-speechless then HO'd them into the ground. Once the mobs power is gone even a caster can melee them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It doesn't matter to me if any particular dimension between one class and another are a bit out of whack; the developers seem willing to take pains to balance things out. Also, whenever the post 50 expansion comes out there'll be a whole new set of balance issues to deal with.</DIV>

[Erasm]

<DIV>Now that I have nightmare ( had it for a few levels now), im not having many problems soloing. I use speechless, then root, then speechless again and Dot ( Nightmare, bolt of lethargy, tormenting visions, cerebral spasm, static pulse, and construct of order if ready, in that order). Then I do a single HO, then uncertanty ( stun) and back off and orange solo mobs die 99% of the time from that, leaving me in the yellow or green area. It took me 2 hrs to solo 50% ( with solo quests being done at the same time). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If speechless gets resists AND root gets resisted, I have to mez and run because I will likely be in the yellow or orange before im able to act again ( from the mobs stun attacks). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sam]

<DIV>Im 44 Illusionist, and at this lvl im pretty sure the illusionist are the worst soloers of eq2.</DIV> <DIV>For high lvl groups, rarely use the mezzs, all my job its keep the mana regen and haste working. Sometimes use my AEDD or stunt, but they really are not much usefull for the group, if i dont use it, nobody complaint me. Sad but real</DIV> <DIV> Always in the group its better to use AOE to the hell than CC. If the CC its necesary we cant do much with the useless AE mezz or the long time of single mezz recast</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[url0]

<blockquote><hr>Sampy wrote:<DIV>Im 44 Illusionist, and at this lvl im pretty sure the illusionist are the worst soloers of eq2.</DIV><DIV>For high lvl groups, rarely use the mezzs, all my job its keep the mana regen and haste working. Sometimes use my AEDD or stunt, but they really are not much usefull for the group, if i dont use it, nobody complaint me. Sad but real</DIV><DIV> Always in the group its better to use AOE to the hell than CC. If the CC its necesary we cant do much with the useless AE mezz or the long time of single mezz recast</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Yes Sampy, 43 illusionist here, I've found the exact same playstyle. It's boring but we are needed for our regen on raids, so guilds will keep us around for now. And I really hope we get fixed in the near future.Off topic of soloing, because soloing is non-productive at this level range. I d love to hear a high lvl 44+ illusionist tell me different.Keep in mind I'm now grouping with lvl 50 tanks in GUILD, there is no need to mez, and mezzing is more problematic than helpfull with high lvl tanks. For now I'm invited because they love my haste and mana regen, nothing more really. To try and help you understand our miserable DPS, IMHO. Grouped with a lvl 50 berserker, lvl 50 Bruiser, lvl 50 templar, lvl 47 assassin, lvl 47 coercer, and myself lvl 43 illusionist. We romped through Permafrost, lvl 46-50 Giants. On most of the encounters I'd finish casting 4 dots, and the mobs was dead. AE was a joke, Target through the MT. Most group encounters there are 3-5, I'd literally start casting my AE dammage spells and the frist mob would be dead before it landed,, so I was never able to cast it fast enough unless I targeted another mob within that encounter before the group was hitting it.Imagine the dammage they are putting out to kill these mobs that fast. I asked for a parse but never found out how much of a pimple I was as far as DIRECT dps last night. Good news is , the lvl 50 illlusionist in my guild told me he did about 45-90 DPS in Permafrost using Master strike/ scorching beam and HO's typically.We SHOULD be getting a DPS upgrade in the near future, according to SOE, so that will help untill new expansions come out that will require us to mez again with lvl 50 groups. Heck, we may even be able to solo again.For now, I say it's a good class with lots of potential, please stick with it, because we need good players to stay in this game.