Why are there so few Warlocks?

[Epictetus]

Been reading on the forums about how few Warlocks there are. So i started wondering why this might be? In the lower levels i have been playing (28 atm) the warlock seems like a great class to me. Sure, soloing is hard work and you can forget about heroic mobs (most of the time). But as soon as i join a group i feel like i am doing i BIG difference. This is hopefully true for all classes; but im guessing a warlock would be welcome in most any group just as much as any other class? And lets face it, disease and poison is a lot cooler than anything some fancy pants wizard might come up with. <div></div>So what am i missing? Are people so incredibly focused on the number crunching that they will play a wizard for a extra few % of average DPS? Are they gimped later on? Do people feel its cheating to one shot kill whole groups (occasionally)? I have just enjoyed beeing a warlock so much that i cant help feel that i must have missed some crucial bit of information that keeps most people away from the class. Because if i havent missed anything i cant see how any class would be more fun to play. (Oh btw, this is a serious question, not some pat ourselves on the back because we are so great post. I really want to know if i missed something.)

[Pilgrim Divine]

<div></div>me again, loli would say it was due to the role of the class being changed in LU13.previous to this warlocks were no.1 DPS in any situation, Post this update, the role was redefined as an AoE specialist. Single targets spells were nerfed and AoE gradually increased. Unfortunately, back then, concussive was not a encounter deaggro, AoE spells did not continue casting once the first target of a grp was down and so everytime we tried to AoE, it would result in pulling aggro or death. A lot of tanks were not used to holding aggro in an AoE situation. A lot of warlocks felt cheated and hanged up the robes in disgust. They didnt sign up to be AoE, just top tier DPS as we were previously. However, i do believe things are slowly changing and we are becoming more popular. Im glad im not a wizzy as they are simply everywhere, same as furies and i like to play classes which arent overplayed, gives me a sense of uniqueness. Our DPS is very situational but when all the things click together, it can be insane. I like the unpredictability of the class.Things i would like to see changed:Nil crystals- why? whats the point? if you could use them to CoH of something in that vein, would make more sense to me,An int buff, pls give us this back, we are sorcs and int= damage.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Pilgrim Divine on <span class=date_text>12-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:31 AM</span>

[Zombo611]

<DIV>IMO I think that becoming a Warlock requires your to know your class inside and out, we are not a cookie cutter nuker. We walk the fence with our unique abilities to [Removed for Content] off all mobs in an encounter. Some people do not want to think about what their role is in the game, no stragedy and making this game almost as interesting as a FPS.</DIV> <DIV>We also make other classes have to step up which give us a bad rap. The one thing I can tell you is keep with it, I started my Lock  launch day and I still love it and the Heroics will come before our stun decrease I could solo ^^^ white mobs and 2 ^ yellow cons encounters, now I stick to ^^^ greens and blues as long as they are not casters :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also I aggree with Pilgrim</DIV><p>Message Edited by Zombo611 on <span class=date_text>12-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:34 AM</span>

[Niun01]

We are the glass cannon.. and not everyone can play or understand the Warlock, as it should be.  I like being a rare class and was actually one of the reasons I rolled one way back when.<div></div>

[Ravenhoft]

Warlocks are generally harder to play than Wizards.  Not as much because of any real challenge other than agro managment, but it is harder to play.  In general, warlocks will fall behind Wizards, Necros, and any number of other classes on Raid DPS.  We have no utility to speak of, and have absolutely no argument on why we should be picked for raids over Necros, Wizards, Conjurers, any scout class, another healer, or a DPS tank.  We can really shine in certain situations, but since we employ a mechanic that isn't used very often, any other class would make just as much sense in the overall scheme of zones, raids, groups etc.  We were changed to something alien in the game on a whim, and never tuned to handle it (we have gotten some tools for this reason lately, but still lack in agro managment without blowing tons of AA).  The lead developer is so obviously a Wizzurd, that it stinks of class favoritism.Since we are so few, SOE has no motivation to fix the class.  I guess it is all about $$$$ and subscriptions but who gives a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about making the game balanced.  Not to mention that Warlocks are not very vocal, thus not the squeaky wheel.  Wizards cried and moaned pre lu-13 until we were nerfed into oblivion, when we were supposedly changed to AOE specialist.  When you look at the spells we get compared to Wizards, in most zones the Wizard will do more encounter DPS than we do (two double up, maybe 3 mob groups) with fusion and their AOEs.  We will do better on 5+ encounters when we don't die from Agro, but it takes a perfectly setup group to allow this DPS...not to mention that every 5 minutes 3 of the Mobs are going to die in that 5 group setup if a wizard is in the group.  In single combat, we will never keep up with Necros and Wizards...get use to being 500 - 800 dps behind them both when fighting named mobs, and if you beat them in group mobs (on the rare occasion) it will be by a couple hundred dps at most.So, just to sum it all up and give you a general reason, we are harder to play, have less tools for doing the job, are the ignored class of casters, we do not excel in our supposedly niche area (AOE), suck on single target mobs compared to other casters, scouts, and some dps build tanks, the lead designer is biased for his class the Wizzurd.Now, why do I keep playing a warlock?  For that one night a month where everything clicks and I can go to town with 5+ groups or 2+ groups of 5+ green mobs in certain zones at once.  For that feeling that I get when I look at a Wizzurd and know that he is lesser because he played the numbers.  He wanted to be Gandolf the stupid, or just wanted to guaruntee himself a spot in the raid.  He wanted to go to Office Depot and press the easy button over and over, and to each his own.  He doesn't have the nerve, guts, or balls to play my class, as [Removed for Content] as it might be, and do it to a level where you ARE accepted on raids or in groups.  There are some Wizzurds out there that have earned my respect with their abilities, but most are just flavor of the month crybabies, and its been that way for a long long time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  All that, and if I betrayed to Wizzurd, what would I have to complain about except the cost of the spells (since about 1/5th of server population is a Wizzurd, even the trash spells cost more plat than my most uber Master).Anyway, it was said when I created my Warlock that the difference between us and "them" is flavor.  When they changed our class during LU-13 (yes, I have been around that long, look up my level history if you want Voltair, mistmoore) the flavor went from being between the two classes to absolute dung.  They cried, they moaned, they called for nerfs until they got what they wanted, and in the end, every Wizzurd is mine enemy.  If given the option, I would detroy, erase, remove every Wizzurd from the game, and that my friends is why I play a Warlock.  Maybe one day, I can look at them again and laugh in their overpowered face.  So basically, hate keeps me going...Long live Innoruk, for the father has given me strength! (lol, ok this last paragraph is just for fun).-Voltair<div></div>

[Ruut Li]

<P>/so agree with Voltair.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also when warlocks try to voice their opinions on the flaws of the class theres always other warlocks screaming that there is nothing wrong and that everyone who points out flaws are nubs, followed by a handful of examples and maybe parses of where they happened to "pwn". The warlock community is never united it seems.</P> <P>To be top of my game is such hard work that my hand hurts after every raid.</P>

[Andromax1]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ravenhoft wrote:Warlocks are generally harder to play than Wizards.  Not as much because of any real challenge other than agro managment, but it is harder to play.  In general, warlocks will fall behind Wizards, Necros, and any number of other classes on Raid DPS.  We have no utility to speak of, and have absolutely no argument on why we should be picked for raids over Necros, Wizards, Conjurers, any scout class, another healer, or a DPS tank......  The lead developer is so obviously a Wizzurd, that it stinks of class favoritism.So, just to sum it all up and give you a general reason, we are harder to play, have less tools for doing the job, are the ignored class of casters, we do not excel in our supposedly niche area (AOE), suck on single target mobs compared to other casters, scouts, and some dps build tanks, the lead designer is biased for his class the Wizzurd.Now, why do I keep playing a warlock?  For that one night a month where everything clicks and I can go to town with 5+ groups or 2+ groups of 5+ green mobs in certain zones at once.  For that feeling that I get when I look at a Wizzurd and know that he is lesser because he played the numbers.  He wanted to be Gandolf the stupid, or just wanted to guaruntee himself a spot in the raid.  He wanted to go to Office Depot and press the easy button over and over, and to each his own.  He doesn't have the nerve, guts, or balls to play my class, as [Removed for Content] as it might be, and do it to a level where you ARE accepted on raids or in groups.  There are some Wizzurds out there that have earned my respect with their abilities, but most are just flavor of the month crybabies, and its been that way for a long long time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  All that, and if I betrayed to Wizzurd, what would I have to complain about except the cost of the spells (since about 1/5th of server population is a Wizzurd, even the trash spells cost more plat than my most uber Master).<div></div><hr></blockquote>Warlocks DPS is fine compared to cloth casters, a skilled player should, in most cases, be able to out DPS necro conj, and alot of the time wizards on single target.  IDK maybe im just [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good but I always show up near the top, under a PRED or two of course <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Niun01]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ruut Li wrote:<div></div> <p>/so agree with Voltair.</p> <p>Also when warlocks try to voice their opinions on the flaws of the class theres always other warlocks screaming that there is nothing wrong and that everyone who points out flaws are nubs, followed by a handful of examples and maybe parses of where they happened to "pwn". The warlock community is never united it seems.</p> <p><font color="#ff0000">To be top of my game is such hard work that my hand hurts after every raid.</font></p><hr></blockquote>Yup exactly why I love bein a warlock!</div>

[Ruut Li]

<BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <BR> <HR> Warlocks DPS is fine compared to cloth casters, a skilled player should, in most cases, be able to out DPS necro conj, and alot of the time wizards on single target.  IDK maybe im just [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good but I always show up near the top, under a PRED or two of course <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>These answers are kinda funny. A personal experience applies to all but gets confusing when people experience different things.</P> <P>So you regularly beat the mages but not the preds. To you it means you are good because you beat skilled (are they?) mages.</P> <P>I regularly beat preds and am often on par with mages. Does this mean that I and the preds suck? Or does it mean that the mages you are playing with arent as skilled as they can be? Does it mean that me and my mage friends are extremely uber skilled?</P> <P>If a tree falls in the forrest when nobody is around to hear it...:smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Ravenhoft]

<div></div><div><blockquote><div><blockquote><hr></blockquote>Warlocks DPS is fine compared to cloth casters, a skilled player should, in most cases, be able to out DPS necro conj, and alot of the time wizards on single target.  IDK maybe im just [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good but I always show up near the top, under a PRED or two of course <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>BS...period.  You can look at the damage range /cast timers on Wizard spells, combine necro and conjurer spells and double it (due to pets), or any number of things and see where it is NOT POSSIBLE for Warlocks to parse with comparably equiped and skilled casters of other professions on single targets in a raid environment.  Then throw in the mana burn for 80k or the lifeburn for around that much...yeah, sure you do bud.  But you can claim it all you want, we all know you are fos...if not, show the parses with time stamps....yeah, thats what I thought.Edit:Thats fine and all, single targets aren't our deal anymore...I am pretty much ok with that.  However, when those classes can beat us out on most multi-mob fights is where I get more than a little annoyed.</div><p>Message Edited by Ravenhoft on <span class=date_text>12-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:07 AM</span>

[Windowlicker]

<DIV>Our DPS is fine if you understand how the stats work ingame and you've equipped your character properly with gear and spells.  In all likelyhood the class just scares people.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The aggro is not the easyest thing to manage, so there's quite a bit of skill behind the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, it is quite easy to beat a Wizard, Necro and Conj's dps on anything over a SINGLE mob.  Not over 5.</DIV>

[Burnout]

our dps isn't fine. that's no question of "know to play" or gear...a good wizard or necro will never be out-dps'ed by a warlock on single mob targets. not to mention the brigs, assas & co<div></div>

[Windowlicker]

<div><blockquote><hr>Burnout wrote:our dps isn't fine. that's no question of "know to play" or gear...a good wizard or necro will never be out-dps'ed by a warlock on single mob targets. not to mention the brigs, assas & co<div></div><hr></blockquote>Re-Read what your flaming please.</div>

[Deathspell]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ravenhoft wrote:...Not to mention that Warlocks are not very vocal, thus not the squeaky wheel.  Wizards cried and moaned pre lu-13 until we were nerfed into oblivion, ...-Voltair<div></div><hr></blockquote>Maybe it is just me, but ever since LU13, that sudden change, the warlock board was full of complaints, whining, comparisons with wizards and other classes.To this very day these discussions have been ongoing in various threads, how can you not call this "not very vocal"?Warlocks are harder to play? That's not true either. Like any other class, there's some situations and combinations that give better results, but I wouldn't say one is harder to play.A Wizard can solo hi-level named heroics (casters, selfhealing mobs). That is something a Warlock just can't do, not at the same level, because we lack the single target instant damage for it. Our dots break roots and they are way too slow if the mob is a caster or has self-healing.Wizards are not easier, they just can coz their class is cabaple. Tell me one mob that a Warlock can solo and a Wizard cannot.</div>

[Tumple-top]

<P>lol i guess when he says "not very vocal" he just means that te wizzurd dev just doesnt read the warlock boards and we dont complain in the wiz boards lol</P>

[Niun01]

I honestly can't stand the Wizard/Warlock comparison threads... If I wanted what the wizards had I would of betrayed and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] along time ago.. I'd just like to see a dev come address the Warlock issues every now and then.I don't know anything about a soloing wizard as I have never tried it, but we are very capable at it as well..  The most memorable time I think I had was in HoF fighting Frankenstien.. The group wiped and my sorry warlock [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] soloed him from 75% to 0.. Used every power trick I had and was down to 2% health, but got the job done, picked up the group and moved on.<div></div>

[Araxes]

<div></div><div></div>Agreed.  Comparing Wizards to Warlocks is sort of a moot point.  We are two different classes.  I think we are two of the most distinctively different classes out of all the pairings.  I've played both and there is a huge difference in the mechanics of one vs. the other.  Even though we are both sorcerers we are hardly similar in how we work.I'm fairly confident in saying that - more than a question of DPS - our primary issue is one of hate management.  We are a tough class to play precisely because it takes a lot of strategy to max our output while not attracting too much attention. We also have to concern ourselves with adds - paying attention to our surroundings a great deal more than say a bruiser or swashbuckler (generally speaking).   You can't just drop Rift or Netherous Realm anytime it pleases you - even when you know it will give you a huge boost to the numbers.  Restraint is a <i>must </i>for all warlock players.It's a very fine line - like walking a tightrope.  You really <i>do </i>have to know the class backwards and forwards and know what other classes are doing to you and exactly how it affects you.  Other classes don't always have to be concerned with these things - or if they are - it's to a lesser degree.In my opinion - <span><b>all of that</b> </span><b>is what makes the class challenging and therefore engaging and interesting</b>.  If all I had to do was click 5 nukes over and over every single battle and be unconcerned with all of what I just went over above - I'd be bored out of my skull. On the other hand ... <b>some players don't want to have to worry about <i>any </i>of that.</b>  <b>In which case - all of these challenges are seen as weaknesses and therefore our class overall is not a very popular choice.</b>And that is why I think our class is not as popular as some others.  And that's just fine by me.  I don't want to be on every corner.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Vicontessa on <span class=date_text>12-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:33 PM</span>

[Groma]

<blockquote><hr>Vicontessa wrote:<div></div><div></div>Agreed.  Comparing Wizards to Warlocks is sort of a moot point.  We are two different classes.  I think we are two of the most distinctively different classes out of all the pairings.  I've played both and there is a huge difference in the mechanics of one vs. the other.  Even though we are both sorcerers we are hardly similar in how we work.I'm fairly confident in saying that - more than a question of DPS - our primary issue is one of hate management.  We are a tough class to play precisely because it takes a lot of strategy to max our output while not attracting too much attention. We also have to concern ourselves with adds - paying attention to our surroundings a great deal more than say a bruiser or swashbuckler (generally speaking).   You can't just drop Rift or Netherous Realm anytime it pleases you - even when you know it will give you a huge boost to the numbers.  Restraint is a <i>must </i>for all warlock players.It's a very fine line - like walking a tightrope.  You really <i>do </i>have to know the class backwards and forwards and know what other classes are doing to you and exactly how it affects you.  Other classes don't always have to be concerned with these things - or if they are - it's to a lesser degree.In my opinion - <span><b>all of that</b> </span><b>is what makes the class challenging and therefore engaging and interesting</b>.  If all I had to do was click 5 nukes over and over every single battle and be unconcerned with all of what I just went over above - I'd be bored out of my skull. On the other hand ... <b>some players don't want to have to worry about <i>any </i>of that.</b>  <b>In which case - all of these challenges are seen as weaknesses and therefore our class overall is not a very popular choice.</b>And that is why I think our class is not as popular as some others.  And that's just fine by me.  I don't want to be on every corner.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Vicontessa on <span class="date_text">12-21-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:33 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Couldn't have said it better myself.  I love the warlock, and i have been unable to roll an alt because it all just seems way too boring by comparison.  I've been on raids where i parsed 800dps and i've been on raids where i parsed 10k dps(poets returns, but it still counts <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) and i have to WORK to play my class properly and prevent my own death.  One good thing about the combat changes, is i have a bit of survivability if i pull aggro on a raid, so long as i can get all 3 detaunts off quickly i can survive it.  The warlock isn't an easy class to play properly.  Sure anyone can play it, but playing it to its full potential takes a special breed, and those of us who are still around playing warlocks are that breed.<div></div>

[Ruut Li]

<DIV>I dont have any need at all to feel special through a Game, I want to have fun and thats it. It is not fun when<STRONG><U> for example</U> </STRONG>the mage "signature" AA  (lifeburn, manaburn and aftershock) arent balanced at all. It's not fun when EoF fabled armor effects arent balanced at all. It is not fun to be the class that gets neglected all the time, most people want to have fun when they play. If they wanna have a "hard" neglected class for the special people who wanna feel even more special then they really should have a warning tag on the official warlock class description so that nubs dont get caught in the class and spend years on it just to realise they dont get the attention and lovin all classes deserve.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ima a nub since I dont wanna be a eq2 nurd :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Phineus]

<P> I parse similar to a well equiped wizard. Was with a wizard and two healers and did most of kos zones. No other dps and no tank we were neck and neck. </P> <P> Predators and rogues are still pretty high. Kind of a slap in the face with the mit hit we take but since the update the difference isnt near as much. My mit is 34 to 40% buffed so I quit complaining. I survive master decaps now. </P> <P> Quick aggro anecdote. Raiding labs. Dude just before corso.There are 3 x4 mobs(one is a named of course). We split em between 3 plate tanks. I count to 1025 from 1001 before I threw my first debuff or attack(I quit using curse of isolation due to aggro issues). Within 20 seconds Im tanking two of the 3 epics. We wiped. Next time I counted to 1035 and was all bettah. Now these same mobs the scouts were laying into em immediately. My zonewide dps goes down considerably when im not attacking. Rangers get a 40% detaunt and rogues a 28% aggro throw. I get 4% and cant hit the mobs for 30 seconds? Forgot to mention had dirge, troub and illus buffs. No pally. </P> <P> I dont really understand my role but Im still having fun. I love the aa lines. </P><p>Message Edited by MarquisDesade on <span class=date_text>12-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:44 AM</span>

[TheStateFish]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MarquisDesade wrote:<BR> <P> I parse similar to a well equiped wizard. Was with a wizard and two healers and did most of kos zones. No other dps and no tank we were neck and neck. </P> <P> Predators and rogues are still pretty high. Kind of a slap in the face with the mit hit we take but since the update the difference isnt near as much. My mit is 34 to 40% buffed so I quit complaining. I survive master decaps now. </P> <P> Quick aggro anecdote. Raiding labs. Dude just before corso.There are 3 x4 mobs(one is a named of course). We split em between 3 plate tanks. I count to 1025 from 1001 before I threw my first debuff or attack(I quit using curse of isolation due to aggro issues). Within 20 seconds Im tanking two of the 3 epics. We wiped. Next time I counted to 1035 and was all bettah. Now these same mobs the scouts were laying into em immediately. My zonewide dps goes down considerably when im not attacking. Rangers get a 40% detaunt and rogues a 28% aggro throw. I get 4% and cant hit the mobs for 30 seconds? Forgot to mention had dirge, troub and illus buffs. No pally. </P> <P> I dont really understand my role but Im still having fun. I love the aa lines. </P> <P>Message Edited by MarquisDesade on <SPAN class=date_text>12-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:44 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Sounds like your 3 tanks suck. Seriously, unless they all just have app1 taunts. Our MT tanks all 3, and I open up on them immediately. I will pull aggro, but only if the hate transfers are slacking, or I do my aggro casting lineup. chaostorm rift apoc chaos absolution nebula chaos, with infestation in there when timers are off... all of this with realm and gift up since the pull. If i wanna give the tank a break i use the 2 aoe debuffs at the start, but after gift and realm are goin.</P> <P>It's a good night when theres a good swash in the MT group.</P> <P>On the raids I've been on, only necro's can significantly outparse me, and only on single targets when undead tide is up. Scouts give me a good run for my money, especially rangers, and I am usually second or third on the overall parse to the ranger and necro... neither of them have my repair bill though.</P>

[Phineus]

 I played a wizard since release. Went to a warlock for pvp. I understand aggro pretty well. My alts are guardian and SK. These tanks are good. No one and I mean no one can hold group aggro off me. Mastered taunts buffed to all hell. I can pull anytime I want.

[Araxes]

<div></div><div>I can't delete this so I am just editing it.  Blah blah blah.  Nothing to see here.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p>Message Edited by Vicontessa on <span class=date_text>12-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:16 AM</span>

[Niun01]

I know I regularly kill my pally amender on a regular basis.. Tryin to push those limits can hurt. lol  He said he is going to put amends on me, go AF and watch a movie because soon as he starts to dps, he gets the aggro.<div></div>

[Xas]

I have recently returned, and I started a warlock without knowing the differences between warlock and wizard. My guy is level 23. I have seen the sorts of things that a wizard can do, and I am starting to doubt whether to continue or not. Not because of DPS, which I assume is equal enough, but because I wonder what warlocks get to compensate for ports? To me at this point, picking between a wizard or warlock is mostly 6 of one, half dozen of the others, but I can see myself down the road wishing I had ports <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I have been impressed with both wizard and warlock DPS when I have grouped with them.<div></div>

[Pilgrim Divine]

warlocks get ports <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Xas]

<div><blockquote><hr>Pilgrim Divine wrote:warlocks get ports <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote>You don't know how much you made my day <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Woohoo!</div>

[Groma]

Warlocks are alot more fun in t7, stick with it.  Hell, if ya don't like it, you're only 2 hours of questing away from becoming a wizard. <div></div>

[Subsanity]

Warlocks have great dps. I know I do, but you also have to remember that raid dps will always affect our dps. Don't blame other classes, but the raid or yourself!<BR>Anyways I [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing hate wizards. <BR><BR>Warlocks > Wizards<BR>GG Thanks!<BR>No Re Plz

[LazyPurp]

<div></div>   Warlock takes time, patience and skill to play...we can't simply walk up, root, NUKE, re-root and NUKKKKKE and the mobs is dead. Warlocks have very nice group encounter debuffs and group buffs. IMO there were a lot more warlocks before DoF and even KoS,  then changes went in & many stopped playing.  Like Necro's...Warlocks are meant to be more damage over time not direct damage. Like any class it's really up to what you prefer not who is better. Each class has it's + and -  & well it doesn't hurt when a DEV loves your class <span>:smileysurprised:<img src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/signature?characterId=455667206"></span><div></div>

[Xede]

<P>I'm  loving the warlock class again. I was contimplating of switching to my fury for a main instead of my warlock. but with the AA's and everything else i am glad i didnt.</P> <P>My DPS is at least 300 points higher than Pre-EoF. AA's help us alot in our DPS on single targers. I can parse about 1200-1700 on just about every parse(unless I'm afk or too busy talking). And that wasnt even fully maxed in the hastenings line. Either way our AA's help our DPS a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] ton and also skill/gear/spell quality helps alot too.</P> <P>just keep in mind of DoT's, DoT's and even more DoT's...keep those on at all times and your dps should stay up near the top of the parses.</P>

[Zombo611]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xasdf wrote:<BR>I have recently returned, and I started a warlock without knowing the differences between warlock and wizard. My guy is level 23. I have seen the sorts of things that a wizard can do, and I am starting to doubt whether to continue or not. Not because of DPS, which I assume is equal enough, but because I wonder what warlocks get to compensate for ports? To me at this point, picking between a wizard or warlock is mostly 6 of one, half dozen of the others, but I can see myself down the road wishing I had ports <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I have been impressed with both wizard and warlock DPS when I have grouped with them.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>We have ports if you are referring to the Commonlands protal, Ant, and Faydark</P> <P> </P> <P>we also have a new ability kind of like a deaggro / Evac it costs 10% on your gear and some xp but it drops aggro by 100% and teleports you to a safe place in the zone. hehehe</P>

[Uumuuanu]

<DIV>What people are NOT understanding, what Sony is NOT understand, what NO one who plays anything other then a warlock seems to understand is that the game is NOT designed for warlocks, especially at the higher end.  Thats why there are so few people who play warlocks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I know you probably think I am stupid in saying it, but its true.   How many end game RAID named are multiple mobs?  Not that many.   Usually its one giant named.  It might have a few lower HP helpers or adds, but honestly a vast majority of them are ONE mob.   The same is true in most instances and dungeons.  1 mob.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Because of that,  people want to play things that damage ONE mob at a time.  Wizards, Scouts, etc, etc, etc.   Even 90% of tank taunts are for ONE mob.   Warlocks are not designed for one mob.  If we were, they would call us disease wizards.   People want to be able to take out that ^^^ Epic X 4 mob as fast as they can because its the named and thats all that matters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets view things from a warlock point of view looking at the current Sony created world.     Ugh, my nukes are crap compared to that wizard, he hits the mob for 16k and I hit it for 5k..  Ugh, my nukes are crap compared to that assassin.  He just backstabbed that mob for 12k and I nuked it for 4.    When I do go all out,  no tank holds aggro against me and I die like a wet paper bag.   I wanted to quit and evac out, but my call of the overlord was down.    Warlocks suck,  I am not going to play this thing any more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>NOW, lets compare it to a game designed for a warlock.   Every encounter is 4+ mobs, named have dozens of helpers that come in the encounter.   Tanks have AE taunts that can actually effect the entire encounter.    HAHAAA that silly wizard is out of mana and killed one mob with his single target nukes that did a whopping 16k of damage.   I nuked the encounter DOWN because I was pusing 20-25k damage per nuke (4-6k avg on a 4 mob encounter) OVER and OVER and OVER, every cast.   The tank had NO problem holding aggro because my aggro transfer spell worked perfectly.   When the big man came in, I was parsing into the 40-50k DPS range because I was hitting all 12 of the monsters in the encounter with my nukes and when it came down to it,  I used RIFT and wiped the room with over 100K damage in one cast.   Warlocks RULE and we only took down that monster because me and the other warlocks MOWED it down like paper.  When we were done, I evacced my group to the zone in and we partied.   I love playing a warlock</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok,  you tell me which is more realistic based on the current game?  Probably easy to see why very few people play warlocks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Want more warlocks to play?    No problem.  Change 1/3 of all heroic and epic mobs in the game to group encounters of 4 or more mobs.     Change 1/2 of all tanks taunts to encounter or AE.    Give us an EVAC (and not just self only).    Oh yeah and make out aggro transfer spells a useful percentage (4% for a master is CRAP when I see 30-40% on other masters for other classes).   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Really want to give warlocks a chance to play and play like we should?   Give us plate armor and a group of healers :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Uumuuanu on <span class=date_text>01-17-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:30 AM</span>

[Keitho]

<div><blockquote><hr>Uumuuanu wrote:<div></div> <div>What people are NOT understanding, what Sony is NOT understand, what NO one who plays anything other then a warlock seems to understand is that the game is NOT designed for warlocks, especially at the higher end.  Thats why there are so few people who play warlocks.</div> <div> </div> <div>Now I know you probably think I am stupid in saying it, but its true.   How many end game RAID named are multiple mobs?  Not that many.   Usually its one giant named.  It might have a few lower HP helpers or adds, but honestly a vast majority of them are ONE mob.   The same is true in most instances and dungeons.  1 mob.   </div> <div> </div> <div>Because of that,  people want to play things that damage ONE mob at a time.  Wizards, Scouts, etc, etc, etc.   Even 90% of tank taunts are for ONE mob.   Warlocks are not designed for one mob.  If we were, they would call us disease wizards.   People want to be able to take out that ^^^ Epic X 4 mob as fast as they can because its the named and thats all that matters.</div> <div> </div> <div>Lets view things from a warlock point of view looking at the current Sony created world.     Ugh, my nukes are crap compared to that wizard, he hits the mob for 16k and I hit it for 5k..  Ugh, my nukes are crap compared to that assassin.  He just backstabbed that mob for 12k and I nuked it for 4.    When I do go all out,  no tank holds aggro against me and I die like a wet paper bag.   I wanted to quit and evac out, but my call of the overlord was down.    Warlocks suck,  I am not going to play this thing any more.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>NOW, lets compare it to a game designed for a warlock.   Every encounter is 4+ mobs, named have dozens of helpers that come in the encounter.   Tanks have AE taunts that can actually effect the entire encounter.    HAHAAA that silly wizard is out of mana and killed one mob with his single target nukes that did a whopping 16k of damage.   I nuked the encounter DOWN because I was pusing 20-25k damage per nuke (4-6k avg on a 4 mob encounter) OVER and OVER and OVER, every cast.   The tank had NO problem holding aggro because my aggro transfer spell worked perfectly.   When the big man came in, I was parsing into the 40-50k DPS range because I was hitting all 12 of the monsters in the encounter with my nukes and when it came down to it,  I used RIFT and wiped the room with over 100K damage in one cast.   Warlocks RULE and we only took down that monster because me and the other warlocks MOWED it down like paper.  When we were done, I evacced my group to the zone in and we partied.   I love playing a warlock</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Ok,  you tell me which is more realistic based on the current game?  Probably easy to see why very few people play warlocks.</div> <div> </div> <div>Want more warlocks to play?    No problem.  Change 1/3 of all heroic and epic mobs in the game to group encounters of 4 or more mobs.     Change 1/2 of all tanks taunts to encounter or AE.    Give us an EVAC (and not just self only).    Oh yeah and make out aggro transfer spells a useful percentage (4% for a master is CRAP when I see 30-40% on other masters for other classes).   </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Really want to give warlocks a chance to play and play like we should?   Give us plate armor and a group of healers :smileytongue:</div> <div> </div> <div> </div><p>Message Edited by Uumuuanu on <span class="date_text">01-17-2007</span> <span class="time_text">11:30 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I didnt read your whole post I tend to do that ..but the game is designed  for  high end warlocks.. when im  toping one wides  ..hmm umm ok  ..i know quite a few mobs that require burning mobs down .. hmm weird</div>

[Inebriation]

<blockquote><hr>Niun01 wrote:We are the glass cannon.. and not everyone can play or understand the Warlock, as it should be.  I like being a rare class and was actually one of the reasons I rolled one way back when.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Glass cannon... I like that.<div></div>

[KrAzE1]

<P>I am very happy that some of my Warlock brothers and sisters are having great success on raids. For the those of you that are topping the parses on raids ... do you have necro's swashy's and assassins in your raids? If so how are you comparing with</P> <P>with them? Compared to the Wizards on our raids we swap out the lead back and forth depending on the mob and that is reflected in the overall parse as well. But neither warlocks or wizards can top what our above mentioned classes are doing.</P> <P>Are you experiencing this at all on your raids? </P>

[MrWolfie]

The poster up a few is right. This game is not designed for Warlocks. Big groups of mobs are very rare, even then our encounter-wide spells are limited to 5 mobs.That limitation needs to be removed and more groups consisting of multiples of mobs needs to be implemented; I'm bored of seeing a corridor filled with wandering ^^^s and groups of 2 ^^s. Link the entire corridor and make them all down arrowed mobs (or even, for all I care).Social Aggro really screwed the warlock, FURIES are better aoers than us on non-linked mobs (because they can stand in the middle of a bunch of mobs and survive while their AOEs do significant damage).A Warlock should be able to treat all mobs with anyone in his group or raid on their hate list as part of a linked encounter ~ that'd re-adjust the balance.And Tanks of ALL kinds (brawlers and rogues and pets included) need more effective AOE taunts.Encounter debuffs should be permanent, until that encounter is done.AOE Master? How about an AA line that results in AOE immunity for the warlock's group?Vulian Interference needs to immediately drop Warlocks down the hate list, like a reverse RESCUE.All concussion effects and other de-aggro skills need to be made inherent, so we can stop wasting our time casting them. Personally, I'd get rid of the useless STR/INT debuff and make that a deaggro disease cloud that permanently surrounds the Warlock.Aggro needs to be manageable BEFORE we come to AAs. So that going down the deaggro line becomes a choice rather than a necessity!None of this means that I don't enjoy playing my Warlock. I do enjoy beating Wizzies in parses on multiple group encounters, but if I had the time over I'd have rolled a Wizard.

[Pilgrim Divine]

we have a very balanced raid force,necros, assassins, swashies, necs, wizzies and warlocks (me)im always in the top 3 and quite regularly top, even on single target named. the top 3 in our raid is usually either the wizzie, the nec, or me. <div></div>

[LokiHellsson]

<P>In T1-T5, Warlocks have better green-background spells.  More damage, maybe even faster timers, than Wizards.  Both have root.  Both have group root.  Both have portal.  Wizard gets more single target stuns.  Wizard gets more power managements.  Wizard gets evac.  </P> <P>Wizard gets more single target nukes and DOTs and they hit harder or cast faster.</P> <P>In name-hunting and raiding, it is the perception of many players that MOST of the mobs that are dropping interesting loot do not have large groups of helpers.  </P> <P>The larger group encounters is where the warlock shines because his group timers get used to their fullest.  The Warlock needs a Paladin sucking hate off him or a solid MT with dirge/coercer/assassin buffing hate in MT group.  Or, better yet, both.   I saw a warlock solo one of the PoF karate class encounters and he parsed 25k dps doing it.  This is an extreme example.  It's also showing how excellently good the warlock class can be at taking down a target that is a total waste of time because SoE has no reward in place for killing an entire Karate class.</P> <P>So, with the Warlock, SoE has designed a hammer, but they forget to design nails or boards.  Personally, I was running a warlock, well, my kid was, and it was up to level 49.  I had a Wizard at 34.  I want a Wizard at 70, rather than keep going, I decided to betray the Warlock to Wizard to save myself 15 levels....because the Warlock's just not very useful.  </P>

[Ruut Li]

<P>I agree with those who say that the game isnt designed for warlocks, specially when it comes to tank taunts, a fix to this would help pug warlocks a lot. Of course there are those raiding warlocks who like to be/feel "special" and say nothing is wrong because they top the parse always. So do I when the uber-classes are slacking a bit, that doesnt mean that the game fits like a glove. </P> <P>Even if I complain and refuse to pretend that nothing is wrong while claiming to take top positions amongst other classes who are doing their absolute best, doesnt mean I dislike my warlock. Im just annoyed that the class doesnt get the attention it deserves and Im annoyed with the.. umm well-known locks who come here and say how sweet things are because they pwn among slackers.</P> <P>My single target these days is 1400-1800 and rarely spiking to 2k. But thats nothing compared to when the melee and necro do their thing. So ok im an aoe specialist: time to impress on a group of trash-worms...ooo.</P> <P> </P> <P>How about playing with melee who know what they are doing and are put in the right set-up? Would you dare?</P> <P>                                                               </P>

[Jenguro]

<DIV>My main is a 70 Defiler, and the majority of my raid experience is in the Laboratory of Lord Vyemm.  My guild has 2 warlocks, and one of them is consistently the number 1 DPS.  Our second warlock is usually in the top 5.  I personally love warlocks because I debuff wisdom and poison/disease to a great degree, so it matches well with my strengths.</DIV>

[KrAzE1]

<P>Ruut Li I am a raiding warlock and I see every nite at raid what your saying. If our Swashy decides to pick his nose during a fight I might out parse him (remember we are talking a Tier 2 dps) and I beat out one of Necro's only because the other Necro got life burn off and one didnt. Nothing sucks worse than leading a parse on a group mob (supposedly our speciality) and a tier 2 dps burns the last one standing and doubles your parse.</P> <P>"How about playing with melee who know what they are doing and are put in the right set-up? Would you dare?" I get the grim reminder every nite Ruut Li lol</P>

[Uumuuanu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KrAzE1 wrote:<BR> <P>Ruut Li I am a raiding warlock and I see every nite at raid what your saying. If our Swashy decides to pick his nose during a fight I might out parse him (remember we are talking a Tier 2 dps) and I beat out one of Necro's only because the other Necro got life burn off and one didnt. Nothing sucks worse than leading a parse on a group mob (supposedly our speciality) and a tier 2 dps burns the last one standing and doubles your parse.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I 100% aggree with this statement.  When doing an group encounter if you parse the first half of it,  NOTHING beats a warlock.  Then when mobs start dropping like flies, so does our DPS as we have to poke and pick at the singles left over.   </P> <P>Its a game design problem.   If in fact the tank could hold aggro,  no one would play anything but a warlock for DPS.   Think of this group, it almost sounds bot like -  Tank ONLY taunting,  Healer ONLY healing the tank,  4 warlocks - BOOM all mobs drop like flies.  Problem is, no single tank can hold aggro against a warlock.  Usually you need a tank with EXCELLENT hate transfer and at least 1 other hate transfer or reduction person.</P> <P>As for parsing.   I seldom if EVER take the top single shot, but I am never NOT in the top 5 on a group mob encounter (unless I am AFK) and usually in the top 5 for a single encounter.    Last night was a good example.  First half  of every encounter in Labs I was ripping them apart until they were singles, then the assassins stole top place by a few points.  Most group encounters I was no lower then 3rd in the list.   Did I ever have the largest hit, NO,  but most then 50% of the time I was number 1 in the DPS list.   In many cases the other mobs in the encounter were over 50% down before the 1st one dropped simply because of warlock damage.  Again its a matter of how you look at it.  No I don't have the 15k hit of the assassin.   No I don't have the 25k hit of the wizard (actually it was 26k something, but still).   BUT on any given group encounter I had no problem hitting them with Tier 1 DPS and thanks to a VERY good setup of the raid,  the only time I got aggro was if the others in my group went down (meaning my deaggro buffs were gone).  </P> <P>But again I have to point out,  how many other classes can drop a group of 4 even con heroics alone with no heals?   Not many if ANY.  It's all about playing the toon properly which takes a good player and alot of playing to perfect.</P>

[reubensito]

I love my lock and as a raider I personally know my roll and do well at it. I have my line of debuffs, my concussive type spells, dots and nukes.. i always start debuffs at 2% of raid targets health, then let the dps loose starting with the dots and I cycle them like crazy along with my Void line.. rotating my concussive blasts etc..to help my aggro.. while the dots take effect at about 70 to 75% i throw in 1 apocalypse (IMHO that spell is aggro on a stick for me, i cast late to save my [I cannot control my vocabulary] from aggro pull) .. by the time all is dead I have rocked the cashbox (sorry dumb comercial in my head). While i wont parse higher than the necros who have died from Aggro or Lifeburn, I am usually in the top 5 dps and Ill tell ya one thing, I dont EVER get aggro unless im trying to show off lol. I know my dps is limited.. I have debuffed, brought down that mobs health, transfered some aggro to the MT, stayed alive. My job is done. When we get some grouped raid mobs and watch me and my dps  fly..In raids though those are rarer let alone when they arent mezzed, so its a mixed bag. But its my place to play that way, ive accepted it and im fine with it. Its all about the skill and how YOU have fun with it.

[Tanatus]

<P>I give you rather simple answer in form of question ...</P> <P>Why the hell you want to play warlock then you can play necromancer?</P> <P>Before LU7 both wizards and warlock use to suck badly as classes... Between LU7 and LU13 warlocks been GODLY good - they were ultimate DPS and altimate solo class - everything that was not epic and not orange con were soloable (farmable) for warlock. Past LU13 warlocks were still ok for solo (on a right targets) but they started had a hard time keeping up with DPS with multiple classes (ranger, necro, conjur ... its just to some of them)... Past LU21 situaction became even worst - warlocks ENTIERLY lost ability to solo and YET DPS was not increased (to be entierly honest wizards after patch got their soloablily greatly improved)...</P> <P>Now lets see what we have after LU31..</P> <P>Solo - warlock STILL not cable of soloing anything worth while to mentioned (nor for exp neither for loot). Reason? - god danm it very simple - gimped to extinction root, almost eradicated stuns and absence any worth while "heavy" attack. How SOE can fix that (if they ever bother to look on it) - well least can be done improve stability snare-fear effect on our root-brake. Look out of all attack that warlock using solo nukes are at best 25% - everything esle are one or another forms of DOTs. Root have 15% chance to break on hostile spell - which mean Apocal GARANTY will break root - toss here nerf of stun effect that use to be attached to that spell and you got a picture. But that not all ... post root break fear-snare effect have 30% (yes thirty [I cannot control my vocabulary]ing %) chance to break on damage - guess what? - that mean you almost never see that effect in work. Oh btw compare to what wizards got - 5% chance to break snare on termination IN CONJUCTION with knock back effect on Ice Nova... neat?. Bottom line - ye warlock can solo groups of no arrow mobs that are 2-3 level below with decent chance to succed but try anything with 1 arrow up and above within group and you get yourself into the trouble.</P> <P>Groups - warlock are ok </P> <P>Raid - as I said why play warlock then you play necro or zerker... I have observed many raid parse good warlock vs. good necro - well in best case scenario warlock can come out even ..... BEFORE necros got lifeburn (not anymore). ANY more or less selfrespecting necro capable sustein over duration any raid DPS 1600-1900 - easy. Pretty much same can do properly buffed zerker. As a warlock then keep on my toe and pushing really had I am staing at median around 1400 - getting troubadur (not always a case) can push me up to 1600-1750.</P> <P>Now if you bother compare utility that have necro and that warlock you mind should be completely clear why so few warlocks left and why every dog and its puppy playing nowdays necro </P>

[reubensito]

Warlocks can't solo? I solo fine. I have 2 roots i cycle, with apoc, war pyre, absolution line, re-root to keep it live, rinse repeat. if by chance that root breaks before i can reroot, thwart, then root.. done. i solo alot *shrug* Lately i have been soloing in Mistmoore Catacombs taking out the heroic werewolfs and any named within the first 2 levels..  i don't expect to be a necro or a nuker, or want to manage a pet, I dont want lifeburn that if im correct you can only use when grouped right? Because yeah you can zap solo down something, but you die too..i rely on my dots and skill. I like the class <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Bud ... compare you solo ability (aka exp/time or loot/time) with ANY other good soloing class..</DIV> <DIV>Instead of soloing Mistmoore Catacombs come and solo within Mistmoore Castle (like any selfrespecting solo classes do) or if you prefer Nizara comes to mind</DIV>

[Galeden]

Usually don't post on stuff like this but... wow... just wow... you consider mistmoore castle to be the norm for soloing and anyone who can't isn't self respecting?

[Supp]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ruut Li wrote:<BR> <P>/so agree with Voltair.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also when warlocks try to voice their opinions on the flaws of the class theres always other warlocks screaming that there is nothing wrong <FONT color=#ff0000>and that everyone who points out flaws are nubs</FONT>, followed by a handful of examples <FONT color=#ff0000>and maybe parses of where they happened to "pwn"</FONT>. The warlock community <FONT color=#ff0000>is never united</FONT> it seems.</P> <P>To be top of my game is such hard work that my hand hurts after every raid.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#cccccc>Wow Ruut, that is so perfectly stated. That's exactly what happens on the monk and warden boards. My monk and warden are now a bruiser and fury :smileywink: Although my tag line says Wizard, the character is actually a fae warlock, who will become a wizard some day. Dont ask, it just worked out that way! But while Im still a warlock, I figured I would hang out with you guys!</FONT><BR></P> <P><FONT color=#cccccc>My experience has been this. </FONT></P> <UL> <LI><FONT color=#cccccc>XP Groups want to kill ^^^ single pulls whereever they can because group aggro by anyone but a guardian is too hard. This results in preferential treatments towards wizards. That hurts the warlock. </FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#cccccc>The warlock has two group buffs, one of which is killer, the other is hohum. That hurts warlocks. </FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#cccccc>Warlocks get no int buffs. I was amazed by this since I thought all dps mages got this buff. I was told that warlocks dont need int buffs because mage group int buffs dont stacks, and there were enough other mages out there with it that you would likely be grouped with to eliminate the need. That hurts the warlock, BAD.</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#cccccc>Where's the evac, feign, COTH, group invis or whatever the special utilty is that makes them cool in a raid? Honestly, I dont even know what it is. That hurts the warlock. I am eXtReMeLy selective about which classes I think should have FD. I believe the warlock should have FD, specifically because group aggro is so difficult. Considering that Im not remaining a warlock, even if they had FD, I think that says a lot about my altruism that they should have it.</FONT></LI></UL> <P><FONT color=#cccccc>As a side note note, I dont agree that necro's outDPS warlocks. I have a necro (not my main but great gear and spell quality), and Im friends with a great wizard, and have another friend who is a very good warlock, though the warlock is not his main. Generally speaking, the warlock is not far behind the wizard on raids for overall dps (wizard is usually about 1800), and always ahead of my necro (necro is usually about at 1400). As I understand the designers intentions, that sounds about right for summoners vs sorcerers. Summoners get more goodies, so we have lesser overall DPS. Now again, this is raidwide, not individual encounters.</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Supple on <span class=date_text>02-02-2007</span> <span class=time_text>12:30 PM</span>

[TheStateFish]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Supple wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ruut Li wrote:<BR> <P>/so agree with Voltair.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also when warlocks try to voice their opinions on the flaws of the class theres always other warlocks screaming that there is nothing wrong <FONT color=#ff0000>and that everyone who points out flaws are nubs</FONT>, followed by a handful of examples <FONT color=#ff0000>and maybe parses of where they happened to "pwn"</FONT>. The warlock community <FONT color=#ff0000>is never united</FONT> it seems.</P> <P>To be top of my game is such hard work that my hand hurts after every raid.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#cccccc>Wow Ruut, that is so perfectly stated. That's exactly what happens on the monk and warden boards. My monk and warden are now a bruiser and fury :smileywink: Although my tag line says Wizard, the character is actually a fae warlock, who will become a wizard some day. Dont ask, it just worked out that way! But while Im still a warlock, I figured I would hang out with you guys!</FONT><BR></P> <P><FONT color=#cccccc>My experience has been this. </FONT></P> <UL> <LI><FONT color=#cccccc>XP Groups want to kill ^^^ single pulls whereever they can because group aggro by anyone but a guardian is too hard. This results in preferential treatments towards wizards. That hurts the warlock. </FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#cccccc>The warlock has two group buffs, one of which is killer, the other is hohum. That hurts warlocks. </FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#cccccc>Warlocks get no int buffs. I was amazed by this since I thought all dps mages got this buff. I was told that warlocks dont need int buffs because mage group int buffs dont stacks, and there were enough other mages out there with it that you would likely be grouped with to eliminate the need. That hurts the warlock, BAD.</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#cccccc>Where's the evac, feign, COTH, group invis or whatever the special utilty is that makes them cool in a raid? Honestly, I dont even know what it is. That hurts the warlock. I am eXtReMeLy selective about which classes I think should have FD. I believe the warlock should have FD, specifically because group aggro is so difficult. Considering that Im not remaining a warlock, even if they had FD, I think that says a lot about my altruism that they should have it.</FONT></LI></UL> <P><FONT color=#cccccc>As a side note note, I dont agree that necro's outDPS warlocks. I have a necro (not my main but great gear and spell quality), and Im friends with a great wizard, and have another friend who is a very good warlock, though the warlock is not his main. Generally speaking, the warlock is not far behind the wizard on raids for overall dps (wizard is usually about 1800), and always ahead of my necro (necro is usually about at 1400). As I understand the designers intentions, that sounds about right for summoners vs sorcerers. Summoners get more goodies, so we have lesser overall DPS. Now again, this is raidwide, not individual encounters.</FONT></P> <P>Message Edited by Supple on <SPAN class=date_text>02-02-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:30 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Where to start... </P> <P>Your necro at 1400 should be at 1900-2300, the one in my guild is. The ranger and I are always right up there with him, but with lifeburn and undead tide he is nearly impossible to catch.</P> <P>We don't have fancy toys like evac and coth, but we can invis on the run and have aoe root/daze/interrupt. A guardian is almost the worst tank for holding aggro on multiple encounters, only brawlers are worse.</P> <P>In a group you don't need an int buff to top the parse, and you don't need deaggro to survive. I tank more often than not in groups just to speed zones up. Raids are another story, but there you will have the int buffs and deaggro and so on.</P> <P>Evac is not cool in a raid. Ever. Feign Death is for cowards. CoTH is a great ability and there should be a group version of the spell, but we aren't summoners, we are sorcerers. </P> <P>If you have power at the end of a fight, you could be hitting harder.</P> <P>You are a glass cannon. Death is your friend. Check my KvD in my sig for proof. </P> <P>It's not a playstyle for everyone. Some just can't handle the power. Enjoy your wizard.</P>

[Supp]

<P><FONT color=#cccccc>I knew I shouldnt have stated a DPS number. Folks can just never be friendly about it. 2300 huh? whatever. On one encounter? Sure. Ive seen 4300 on an encounter by both wizards and necros. But 2300 over a 4 hour raid, all compiled? pfft. Ive never seen our wizard get 2300 over an entire night, and he virtually has the best equipment that can be gotten. Heh, my Fury can get 200K DPS if I stack the encounter right. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cccccc>Ive been in 4 raiding guilds now, and Ive seen lots of parses involving great players. All compiled, I've never see the outrageous claims substantiated in the fury, wizard, monk, and now warlock forums. With the exception of the reign of the broken ranger, Ive never seen it skew like so many folks claim. Ive seen furies claiming 1400 dps, monks claiming 2000 dps, blah blah. I never see it. Folks take the result of once choice encounter and multiply it out over the whole night and end up with an outrageous raid dps claim.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cccccc>Im glad youre real happy with your warlock though. Im sure all the rest of the warlocks share your sentiment.</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Supple on <span class=date_text>02-02-2007</span> <span class=time_text>03:59 PM</span>

[Tanatus]

<P>Seriously bud - if you necro can't sustein at least 1.9K over duration of raid on average - necro don't know how to play or/and don't have enouth AA to do it.</P> <P>Other problem in oder to brake mark 2K DPS all necro need is healer who paying attention on necro health.. Warlock to push over 1400 (or 1600 if we have bard) have to work his [Removed for Content] off to make it happend and I mean it. You HAVE to have [I cannot control my vocabulary] load procing gear, you HAVE to hit Netherous Realm and Corrupted gift as soon as they up same goes for FHS/Catalyst AA... There is no way in hell that equaly geared/skilled necro lose DPS ladder to warlock NO WAY.</P> <P>Other class that I see brake mark 3900 DPS are zerker - seen it multiple times in the Labs</P>

[Uumuuanu]

<cite>Tanatus wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>Seriously bud - if you necro can't sustein at least 1.9K over duration of raid on average - necro don't know how to play or/and don't have enouth AA to do it.</p> <p>Other problem in oder to brake mark 2K DPS all necro need is healer who paying attention on necro health.. Warlock to push over 1400 (or 1600 if we have bard) have to work his [Removed for Content] off to make it happend and I mean it. You HAVE to have [I cannot control my vocabulary] load procing gear, you HAVE to hit Netherous Realm and Corrupted gift as soon as they up same goes for FHS/Catalyst AA... There is no way in hell that equaly geared/skilled necro lose DPS ladder to warlock NO WAY.</p> <p>Other class that I see brake mark 3900 DPS are zerker - seen it multiple times in the Labs</p><p></blockquote> </p><p>Honestly,  this shows there is a severe flaw in the balance of the game.   NO other mage class should outdamage a wizard or warlock.  Why?   We don't get pets, we don't get utility, we don't get ANYTHING other then damage, especially warlocks who cant even EVAC and were by some kind designer BARELY given ports.  </p><p>Am I saying nerf the necro or conjuror, no, let thier pets nuke away happily.  After all, there pet that gets that kind of damage IS based on the Wizard/Warlock line if they choose the mage pet and Ranger/Assassin if they choose a scout pet.  Thus it should do that kind of damage.  However, it should NOT do them as well as the real class (just like no tank pet should be able to out tank a real tank or our heal a real healer).</p><p>The reality is that wizards and warlocks should be FAR above and beyond the damage of any other mage simply because thats all we have.   Now,  the fix for that is simple, either give us alot more utility  (where is the wizards summoned ice or fire pet? or where is the warlocks summoned disease ball or whatever)  OR  to make warlocks and wizards simply do more damage then ANY other caster and/or thier pet combined.</p><p>As for parses,  it all depends on the encounter.   A single ^^^ which is what the entire game is mis-designed around, sure I can push 1500 on it in a raid no problem, 2k if I have a paladin with amends and decent aggro holding.    However,  take an encounter that has lots of mobs in it (for example the beholders in Labs) and there is simply mage class that can generate that kind of damage,  the heroics in Lyceumm for another example.  Its not hard to easily push towards 4kdps on such encounters.  </p><p>I have stated all along that for warlocks it is a GAME DESIGN FLAW that there are so many single encounters in the game.   replace half of the ^^^ with an encounter of 6 or more mobs and lets see anyone outparse a warlock consistently.    Of course when they fix that flaw they will have to fix the taunts and aggro management problems they have NEVER addressed for group encounters.</p><p>Its not about parses, its about balance and simply put, no matter WHAT class you play, you have to admit Sony has NEVER gotten that right.  From the wizards that root nuke named by the dozen (damned plat farmers) to the coercers who are charming/mezzing epic mobs to the fact that utility is so unbalanced across classes it is simply STUPID.   Sony doesn't have it right and at the rate they are going NEVER will.</p>

[Supernova17]

You said we had utility! /snicker Yeah if you count being bombarded with shard requests and the same buffs as every other mage class laff. Sorry bud, utility belongs to the enchanters. All summoners have is damage too, we just do it differently.

[drajev]

<p>Imo, a warlock that does under 1.8K dps on a single target and under 2.8K on 2+ targets is useless to any serious raid. Take freethinker - second named - single target, unless u get stunned a good warlock will produce 2K dps. Did 2.2K on it yesterday. Whats really situational about the warlock is how well your tank keeps agro. Another freethinker example - on the 2 encounters with 4 mobs x3 i did 4.1K dps the first encounter then took agro on the second and managed 3.4K without dying as tank didn't have enough things up to keep agro. </p><p>Let's say your tank has great agro. We've compared a lot our dps with our conjurer and necro and they're both great players so we push each other hard, so on medium ae encounters i come on top 95% of the time, then normally our conjurer is second not too far behind for ex. i'll do 3.5K, he'll be around 2.8-3K, on single targets i manage close to 2.5-2.6K sometimes when i get lucky on crits and match well the focused casting + the dispatch and get precision of the maestro up at that moment.When necros use their lifeburn it's certain i get outdpsed, when they use lifeburn on like 1min trash mobs they put around 3K dps. </p><p>Warlock is a great class, i love playing my warlock, much more than the wizard i used to be 8 months ago, but we definitely need to be in good conditions to make the best out of our class, like have a deagro or time compression in order to do good dps, let alone being all masters and great geared.</p>