Warlock AA's for newbies

[Epictetus]

Holy cow, its that noob again <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I have come up with a couple of more basic questions about the AA's. I understand that there are two systems, one for KoS and one for the fae expansion (KoF?). From what i read it seems the expansion give access to two distinct systems for AA's with totally different trees. Is this correct? The way i understand it you have the KoS AA's from lvl20 and they can be invested in attribute related trees. I have seen references to Wisdom (or was it INT)/Strength tree etc. The fae points you can spend from lvl 10 and those are directed at your actual class. These points will give you faster cast times, enhance particular spells etc. You earn AA's for both of these systems by completing quests and killing mobs that are still blue to you. Also discovery XP can count towards this. Could someone please cover the basics about this for me? Im wondering about the warlock specifics here, i read all the AA for dummie threads i could find on the achievement forums but the information was either very old (hence unreliable) or non specific (most often both). I would like to know stuff like "There are four main lines, line A is good if you want to do this and B is good if you want to do that". The basics of the system and the choices you have to make. Since i dont even own the expansions yet i really dont know anything that i havent read on these forums. <div></div>

[Windowlicker]

<DIV>If I had to do it all over again, I'd do the following:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>8 Points into the first skill in the INT line (To give you the int boost)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Train Catalyst (STR line)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Train Freehand Sorcery (Wisdom line) FULLY.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After all of that is taken care of (You'll need just shy of 50 AA to do that), start working on the Warlock tree.  Currently I'm personally training the Explosive line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: If you're itching for a special sooner, train Freehand Sorcery before Catalyst.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Windowlicker on <span class=date_text>12-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:17 AM</span>

[Pilgrim Divine]

<div></div><div></div>i didstr line4/4/4/8wis4/8/4/8int5This gives me max chance to crit, 8% extra base damage and max FHS to give me an extra 30% whenever i use it.also, This build gives me a nice little int buff of 20 points. I saw no need to get the end skill from wisdom line as i have no power issues so i dont need less power usage. I can also live without catalyst as i crit plenty with boots or terror, and MoA adding another 4.5% to the 11.9% str line gives me. Im really undecided about the 2nd tree. ive completed the protection line as far as i wanted to, 10 points in  themagi shielding buff and 5 in improved concussive and so have vacuous. I really like the extra ward on the magi shielding, it helps a lot for soloing and means you can take the odd hit much easier. Im leaning towards Hastenings as my second line as im hearing mixed reviews about Aftershock in the explosives line.However, im tempted to change the 1st tree to wis/int and forget the str line to give me a little deaggro help and go for hastenings and explosives in the 2nd tree for max dps. im still undecided.....<div></div><p>help!<span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Pilgrim Divine on <span class=date_text>12-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:34 AM</span>

[Mastire]

<DIV>My current AA Build</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>KoS: </DIV> <DIV>STR line 4/4/4/5/8 - People say catalyst isn't worth it but critign every time I cast apoc, instead of a chance to crit it is a huge DPS increase</DIV> <DIV>AGI line 4/4/4/4/8 - I'm still not totaly convinced this is the best option, I prefer the Sta line 4/8/4/8 but I realy don't like not having a 2nd symbol slot</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EoF:</DIV> <DIV>Hastings line</DIV> <DIV>5 in Soul Blister</DIV> <DIV>5 in Scourge of Shadows</DIV> <DIV>5 in War Pyre</DIV> <DIV>5 in Void Distortion</DIV> <DIV>1 in Focused Casting</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Explosives line</DIV> <DIV>3 in Chaostorm</DIV> <DIV>3 in Nil Absolution</DIV> <DIV>5 in Apocolypse</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is my plan for the 1st 30. After that I'm goign to try aftershocks, as well as 5 points in Corupt gift<with the 3 set bonus for our fabled gear this will rock></DIV> <DIV>If Afteshocks isn't worth the aditional 10 AA's I'll probably put them to enhance Magi Sheilding, regenerating wards are always nice <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Epictetus]

<div></div>Thanks for your answers. I would still need some kind of basic walkthough though. My questions are still more on the level of:1) What kind of bonuses does the INT tree give (repeat for all attributes). 2) What are the major lines of the KoF trees? Dont need specifics, just stuff like "There are four lines, heres a one sentence description of each". <div></div>It is true that i have think i have started understanding a lot of this stuff from reading between the lines; but i figure i might well have gotten it wrong. Again, dont need the specifics; would just like to know what the general idea is behind different lines and perhaps some reasoning behind popular builds. There is so much information available for the 2 year+ player but very little for the one week ones. (and thank you for your patience, i apreciate you taking time to answer stuff instead of shoving a huge RTFM in my face). <p>Message Edited by Epictetus on <span class=date_text>12-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:28 AM</span>

[Sesskia]

Personally, I'm going Str/Agi in my KOS trees, and unsure on EOF, but currently have Aftershocks.  Im thinking about getting rid of it, as it doesn't do much dmg when compared to other classes equivalent spell.The basic run down of KOS trees are:STR  - Boost dmg/CritsAGI    - Boost spell reuse timersWIS   - Boost Mana regenINT    - Boost Hate DecreaseSTA   - No Idea <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />If I go Str/Agi, I get great dmg, but might have power issues.If I go Str/Wis I will have some boosted dmg, and no power issues, but have potential Spike dmg issuesIf I go Agi/Wis I get lots of spells off quick, and do good dmg, but I am missing out on the crits.Personally, I'll take the mana issues, and deal with them.  Im setting myself up for being a raiding Warlock, so the DPS boost is worth more to me than the Mana, as I will always have better ways of regen power than solo/grouping. EOF Trees are harder to explain, and I haven't figured what I want from them exactly.<div></div>

[Pilgrim Divine]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>The four trees of the KoS line are str, agi, wis, sta.str tree is followed usually for the last two skills, firstly,spell expertise which, when maxed gives 11.9% chance to crit and then secondly, Catalyst which guarantees your next spell will crit at the cost of about 1000hitpoints (i think)agi generally has skills that decrease casting times and recast times. Lots of people choose this tree as we have long cast times.sta tree seems to be only pursued by pvpers (i may be wrong tho) it has little use in pve and i dont know one sorc who has followed it. Gives a manashield, increases phys damage resistance. largely useless in pve.wis tree seems to be the most followed as every skill in this tree is useful, free hand sorcery, brainstorm all increase your dps. requires your symbol slot to be empty.int tree varys in popularity. Is much more viable post EoF as int is no longer capped and as we do not receive an int buff , the added int available from this tree is useful. This tree also gives deaggro help with confounding staff, fairly handy as although you are never particularly close to a mob to start with, if you pull aggro , you can pull this out of the bag as an instant deaggro. When arcanic avoidance is maxed you get a 10.5% base hate reduction, Concussive blasts on the last skill  decreases threat by 735 for each spell cast for a short duration.the five trees of the EoF lines are:PropogationHasteningsExplosivesRemovalsProtect ion.Propogation generally gives all your spells that have a % chance to proc an increased chance of proc. Spells such as broodlings, poisonous veil, boon of the damned, nihilistics etc. End ability gives an extra 3% to proc on aforementioned spells. (ooooo, exciting eh? lol)Hastenings generally gives increased speed when casting and a decrease on recast timers on specific spells, war pyre, scourge of shadows, soul blister. thwart and void distortion. Culminates in focused Casting, a 15sec duration where all your casting speeds are doubled and recast duration halved.Explosives gives added radius and a max 10% increase in dps to your AoE spells, suffocating cloud, rift, apocalypse, void absolution.Culminates in Aftershock, a chance for each spell in the explosves line to do extra damage.Protection gives deaggro help, gives you a ward on magi shielding, (very helpful!!!) can increase threat decrease on Concussive and decrease timer recast on vulian interference. Also gives Vacuous which gives a 15% increase /decrease  in effectiveness to non permanment spells that work with hate, taunts, deaggros etcRemovals enhances your curse spells and dispell magic. seems pretty useless. The end ability Volitility seems intriguing but have yet to hear how good it is. Reduces targets AoE damage radius by 20%. could be handy for raid bosses with wide AoEs. Shame the skills leading up to this skill are so lame.hope that helps.<div></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Pilgrim Divine on <span class=date_text>12-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:15 AM</span>

[Epictetus]

Now i have more of my questions answered. Thanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Will of course be doing a lot of thinking before i get there, but right now i think i would go for Str/Int and Hastening/Protection. I cant see myself adding more DPS without doing something about aggro. I have trouble restraining myself enough as it is. <p>Message Edited by Epictetus on <span class=date_text>12-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:30 AM</span>

[Pilgrim Divine]

<div></div><div></div>well, i dont have catalyst from str or sagacity from wis. and i still have plenty of added Dps and crits. I would like to try catalyst tho, just my current build, see previous post in this thread didnt yield the points to have it. i still crit every fight on at least 2 spells.I dont need the end spell from wis as i have no power issues whatsoever as im pretty well dressed through raiding etc.if u go str/int on KoS, you can indeed get faster cast on certain spells from the EoF hastenings line. No mana regen though. Just get Flowing thought items, manastone, dracomancer gloves give mana font and you get a mana power leech for raid fights etc,Suffocating cloud is great, it  always, always, seems to proc my broodlings the minute i cast it. I love it, is very nice spell i always use and can be increased in damage through explosives. Its often a bit underated but its a good PBAoE.(sorry, I answered your last post before you edited it, hence the info about suffocating cloud etc)<div></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Pilgrim Divine on <span class=date_text>12-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:42 AM</span>

[Epictetus]

Heh, bit of a chain reaction. I edited due to the message above mine beeing posted after i wrote my first reply. These forums could do with a "warning messages have been posted while you where typing" warning. Anyway, yeah. The clouds are so sweet. I love em. If the lines that make em stronger make enough of a difference i might just do everything i can to maximise those and let everything else be secondary. <div></div>

[WeB_CRuSaDeR]

Hmm, no one uses the damageshield proc (if you wear symbol in 2nd) from the STA line?I capped at lvl 28 for a while and having that damageshield is quite usefull, it really procs quite a lot and does a nice amount of extra damage<div></div>

[Eriol]

For the EoF lines, hastenings seems really REALLY useful, since for most of the spells there, in addition to the 10% faster casting, it's ALSO a 10% increase in damage as well, so you get the combined effect there. So even if not chain-casting them, it's STILL a concrete benefit, if only on the top-level achievement (our fast-recast single-target nuke). Also, as has been said, the end ability really does let you dump some massive dps when the situation calls for it. It does essentially double our DPS as long as lag isn't too horrid and you can queue your spells up correctly.As for the KoS ones... I really dunno. I'm not that high yet, though because of agro issues, the INT line does seem quite appealing.

[Windowlicker]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Epictetus wrote:<BR><BR>I cant see myself adding more DPS without doing something about aggro. I have trouble restraining myself enough as it is. <BR><BR><BR> <P>  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Don't plan your character around crappy groups that do not offer hate reduction.  Plan for the groups that will allow you to fully unleash your DPS.</P> <P>You can always scale back in a bad group.  But when you hit the *good* group, you want to be able to kick out as much DPS as possible.  Hate reduction can be gained from spells, and equipment as well.<BR></P>

[Sesskia]

<div><blockquote><hr>Windowlicker wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Epictetus wrote:I cant see myself adding more DPS without doing something about aggro. I have trouble restraining myself enough as it is. <p>  </p><hr> </blockquote> <p>Don't plan your character around crappy groups that do not offer hate reduction.  Plan for the groups that will allow you to fully unleash your DPS.</p> <p>You can always scale back in a bad group.  But when you hit the *good* group, you want to be able to kick out as much DPS as possible.  Hate reduction can be gained from spells, and equipment as well.</p><hr></blockquote>I agree with this POV. Once you reach 60+ keep an eye out for Skywatchers robe.  It procs de-aggro.  Avgs something like 100-150 threat reduce per spell iirc.Id rather have the capability to do insane damage, and regulate myself depending on the group. As I'm setting myself up for raiding, I'd rather not gear up for the lowest common denominator.</div>

[Phineus]

 If your on a pvp server the lvl 70 pvp robe from QH detaunts for 800 4 times a minute.

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Pretty sure there's an adornment for onehanders out there that procs something in the order of ~1k deaggro when you cast a hostile spell. Combine that with regular deaggro spells, and the stuff you can find on equipment, I don't see any need to go down hate reduction AA lines.<div></div>

[Hellswrath]

<DIV>While I agree that you should never plan your toon around weak groups  with poor aggro management, I think Vacuous is an extremely useful skill for the entire group.  Many of the deaggro options mentioned already, including the final ability in the int line, are single target deaggro only.  For our class, the aggro issues are in our target encounter.  the protections line helps immensely with this and allows you to focus 100% on damage everywhere else.  Lets you go KoS str 4/4/4/8 and wis 4/5/4/8/1 or put the last ability for wisdom points into catalyst.  Then you can either go for more single target DPS by picking the hastenings line or go the encounter DPS route towards aftershock. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, don't underestimate the usefulness of vacuous in either group <EM>or</EM> raiding environments.</DIV>

[Worrick]

<DIV>I took the stamina line and strength line from the KoS AA tree. Why I took strength is obvious though I did skip the last ability (1 crit is not worth that much health). I took stamina line because manashield helps a lot with survivability in solo, groups and raids. Also because the original wording wasn't clear if you would start takign HP damage after your power was consumed. Also the secodn to last ability increases focus and disrutpion,<EM>  </EM>I rarely gets resists even with the new resist system in EoF. I have not decided if I want to remove stamina and go for agility yet. Going to see how I do once I max EoF AAs also.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I didn't take wisdom because I don't want to have an emtpy slot. To me an AA should be a choice on which direction to improve your character, not remove soemthing you already have to gian a bonus is soemthing. 1 empty slot may not seem like much, but I just don't like it.</DIV>

[Phineus]

 If you cast the crit spell before combat you tic up rather fast. Or if you have a good warden the first thing he casts is a group hot just before combat. I use it almost every fight.

[Gnomie]

<P>I agree. An apocalypse that is catalysted and freehanded will blow your dps way up. Nice way to pull groups of heroics when soloing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </P> <P>And yes when you raid with a good druid that 18% health should be back in no time. Dont underestimate the power of a much needed guaranteed crit. sometimes you really need a good 18k+ per target apocalypse or a quick 10k void distortion!  Duels too. nice to precast for a crit on your first nuke <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Giot </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Windowlicker]

I also tone down my damage in lesser groups by dropping in a 2handed staff.  It gives me a nice INT boost over the 1hander, removes Freehand Sorcery and allows me to cast a little more regularly instead of once per fight.The Prismatic 2.0 is nice for that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Niun01]

<div><blockquote><hr>Gnomie wrote:<div></div> <p>I agree. An apocalypse that is catalysted and freehanded will blow your dps way up. Nice way to pull groups of heroics when soloing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </p> <p>And yes when you raid with a good druid that 18% health should be back in no time. Dont underestimate the power of a much needed guaranteed crit. sometimes you really need a good 18k+ per target apocalypse or a quick 10k void distortion!  Duels too. nice to precast for a crit on your first nuke <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>Giot </p> <hr></blockquote>I always always always Freehand+catalyst Apocolypse.. follow that with chaostorm and your crankin off the bat.  On the very low chance there is a ton of mobs I have also been known to freehand+catalyst Rift which is nice as well</div>

[Keitho]

<div><blockquote><hr>Niun01 wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Gnomie wrote:<div></div> <p>I agree. An apocalypse that is catalysted and freehanded will blow your dps way up. Nice way to pull groups of heroics when soloing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </p> <p>And yes when you raid with a good druid that 18% health should be back in no time. Dont underestimate the power of a much needed guaranteed crit. sometimes you really need a good 18k+ per target apocalypse or a quick 10k void distortion!  Duels too. nice to precast for a crit on your first nuke <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>Giot </p> <hr></blockquote>I always always always Freehand+catalyst Apocolypse.. follow that with chaostorm and your crankin off the bat.  On the very low chance there is a ton of mobs I have also been known to freehand+catalyst Rift which is nice as well</div><hr></blockquote>Pretty sure Cata  doesnt effect rift  unless they have recently  changed it and as well freehand not work ..do to the fact that  Rift is a Duo Spell Combo  1st Spell throws  them up and stuns  second spell ..well tech not is falling damage  ..lol</div>

[drajev]

<DIV>Str and Agi on Sorcerer tree and Focusted casting and Aftershock in this order on the warlock tree. The general conception is wis/str is best but its only the case for wizards, warlocks dont have such huge nukes as wizs and FHS and Brainstorm not only create spikes on some crit apocalypse and get u killed for sure but get you slack on single targets because of the slow casting timers and this is even more valid on raids with high average dps where most of the trash fights will be short and until u get Infestation, Maelstorm, Netherous realm and Gift up, mob is half dead. Agi line + hastenings gives awesome single target dps, that way i can go very close to uber wizard on single target, meaning consistent 1.7-2.2K dps raid dps with troub+fury+synergism. On aoe agi/str and str/wis are pretty close with a slight advantage to agi/str. In the end the skill makes the whole difference.</DIV> <DIV>Velizar, warlock on Splitpaw, Fable</DIV><p>Message Edited by drajev on <span class=date_text>12-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:23 AM</span>

[Phineus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> drajev wrote:<BR> <DIV>Str and Agi on Sorcerer tree and Focusted casting and Aftershock in this order on the warlock tree. <BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Me likey this setup.

[Pilgrim Divine]

<div></div>i respecced last night (again)to the following:str 4/4/5/8Agi 4/4/4/8/1so far i have 21 in hastenings, 5 each in Scourge, war pyre, soul blister, void distortion & 1 in FC.plan to have 21 in Explosives, 5 in suffocating cloud, devastion, void absolution, rift and 1 in aftershockwill then throw 8 into the magi shield as i really like the ward (have previously maxed this and it was useful.)first impressions:Well, having had the str/wis option i was a bit nervous as my spell damage dropped quite a lot despite being able to now equip the secondary slot. Before my void distortion hit for about 4085 at about 635 int but now was showing max damage at 3800 ish, Also apocalypse at adept III dropped from about 1383 max per tick to about 1230.Still, based on advice given in this post, i thought I would give it a go....I equipped Cloak of Zet and a dagger to help reuse on timers even further. I have to say,i was really REALLY impressed. Soul Blister & aura of Nihilty are almost instant cast, Cooldowns are incredibly fast, able to sneak in 2 void distortions on a single blue ^^^ in MM catacombs before the fight was over, still have a great chance to crit meaning lots of nice big numbers. Apocalypse, Void abosution were available so fast and war pyre and scourge was just constantly running. Also, Concussive and vulian are so quick to throw in. Ive never burned down grps so fast. Yes, i was noticing i was working a lot harder and burning through power more but still, was definately worth the respec and think ill see how my parse looks when i raid  next.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Pilgrim Divine on <span class=date_text>12-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:48 AM</span>

[Phineus]

<DIV> I got to focused casting and have catalyst. I dueled a raid equipped SK two nights ago. Burned her down with 98% life left. Took 6 seconds to burn through 7k+ hp. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I still have trouble with brigands and assassins but can get them into the red. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> On Edit. I put the minimum in scourge. The spell has never impressed me. </DIV><p>Message Edited by MarquisDesade on <span class=date_text>12-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:24 AM</span>

[Dark_Thorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> drajev wrote:<BR> <DIV>Str and Agi on Sorcerer tree and Focusted casting and Aftershock in this order on the warlock tree. The general conception is wis/str is best but its only the case for wizards, warlocks dont have such huge nukes as wizs and FHS and Brainstorm not only create spikes on some crit apocalypse and get u killed for sure but get you slack on single targets because of the slow casting timers and this is even more valid on raids with high average dps where most of the trash fights will be short and until u get Infestation, Maelstorm, Netherous realm and Gift up, mob is half dead. Agi line + hastenings gives awesome single target dps, that way i can go very close to uber wizard on single target, meaning consistent 1.7-2.2K dps raid dps with troub+fury+synergism. On aoe agi/str and str/wis are pretty close with a slight advantage to agi/str. In the end the skill makes the whole difference.</DIV> <DIV>Velizar, warlock on Splitpaw, Fable</DIV> <P>Message Edited by drajev on <SPAN class=date_text>12-28-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:23 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Would you say this is also the preferred setup for a warlock (mid 60s) that likes to solo (although still wishes to be useful in groups) ?</P> <P>Or do any of you have any particular suggestions for setups for soloing warlocks?<BR></P>

[Melseb]

<hr size="2" width="100%">Soubringer wrote:Pretty sure Cata  doesnt effect rift  unless they have recently  changed it and as well freehand not work ..do to the fact that  Rift is a Duo Spell Combo  1st Spell throws  them up and stuns  second spell ..well tech not is falling damage  ..lol<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>The dmg numbers on Rift increase when you have FHS up. Just examine spell with that little buff on you. But youre right about catalyst. It doesnt crit rift every time.Daenarys70 WarlockMob SquadKithicor<div></div><p>Message Edited by Melseb on <span class=date_text>12-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:10 AM</span>

[Gnomie]

<DIV>yes FHS works. catalyst doesnt <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> lol</DIV>

[Andromax1]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>The way I see it, <b>free dmg owns all</b>, that is STR, and WIS str 4/4/4/8 WIS 4/5/4/8/8. With AGI line you get *slightly faster cast time and reuse* but in the big picture you are just running yourself out of power casting less effective spells than you would normally otherwise be if you had STR and WIS line. <u>As a warlock it is probably not worth taking catalyst</u>, for the simple reason that in the long run, criting apocolypse everytime (if you dont cast it right away and wait for the full 1 min reuse of catalyst) isnt going to add enough dps to a zonewide parse to make up for the additional dmg you would get from taking the 8% base dmg from the WIS line and the 12%(edited: extra 6%) Crit you get from STR. Besides I crit it a ton without catalyst anyways... (on a side note , even if you freehand(WIS), equip a 2 hander and summon the 3% crit book familiar) And.. the 12% less power cost is a no brainer from WIS line. Im pretty sure most warlocks that raid a lot would agree with a spec'ing that is almost identical to the one I am reccomending. Again AGI line and Catalyst unfortunately arent the best route to take. For EOF, there is all different kinds of stuff you can take, and I wont argue it because I havent tested everything out extensively yet. I only have 94 AA at the moment too so its not maxed, to me Focused Casting and Aftershocks seem like nobrainers. I also added 3 points to broodlings, the 9% trigger and 3 seconds are nice (the other 2 ranks are insanely [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] by SoE, 2 more seconds, wow 1 second short of more dmg.....) EoF AAs are interesting, gonna be a lot of varied specs out there.Monster70 WarlockNektulos<p>Message Edited by Andromax1 on <span class="date_text">12-31-2006</span> <span class="time_text">08:12 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Andromax1 on <span class=date_text>12-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:12 AM</span>

[Gnomie]

<DIV>Hmmm im not so sure i agree. Catalyst before apocalypse will definately add a lot to dps, especially when burning down a mob is called for.  When it is time to burn adds Focused Casting, followed by critted apocalypse and all your nukes is definately amazing dps. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Power is not much of an issue when you have 8k or more power although im sure it is nice on those long fights/power drain mobs. I really cannot just give up catalyst i like it too much and it pretty much guarantees 15k or more per mob dmg every time when used with FHS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Giot</DIV>

[Andromax1]

<div></div>I guess that if your gear is such that you never have power problems in long fights, I can see taking catalyst.Dont think there is anything that could convince me that taking AGI over STR or WIS would be better,  however.Maybe someone that uses it can post some data?<p>Message Edited by Andromax1 on <span class=date_text>12-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:16 AM</span>

[Phineus]

<P> I am balls out dps from the word go. Burned another sk, collectively 12k hp with heals and wards, down in about 15 seconds and that was with resists. </P>

[TheStateFish]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Andromax1 wrote:<BR> I guess that if your gear is such that you never have power problems in long fights, I can see taking catalyst.<BR><BR>Dont think there is anything that could convince me that taking AGI over STR or WIS would be better,  however.<BR><BR>Maybe someone that uses it can post some data?<BR> <P>Message Edited by Andromax1 on <SPAN class=date_text>12-31-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:16 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>While I don't have any hard numbers on me, I am top 3 on every raid parse 7 nights a week (or as many of them as I can make these days). The other two top parsers are a Necro and a Ranger. I have Str 4/4/4/8, Agi 4/4/5/8/1, Full Explosives Line, and going down removals next. </DIV> <DIV>Agility makes our horribly long casting aoes less painful. I was originally Str/Wis, but out parse that setup significantly and have been Str/Agi for months before EoF. I tried Vacuous before Aftershock, and when I lived through a fight with it, I would have anyway, and it wasn't enough to let me go all out without the usual deaggro buffs. Hastenings seems decent, but a lot of points are wasted with little benefit to get to the final spell in the line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you're worried about power, do the manastone hq, vessel quest in DoF, and go on some pickup Labs runs for Dracomancer Gloves. Theres also the Necromantic Orb of the Death Reveler from the x2 in Forsaken City that procs power, an easy fight for one group. And the robe form Nest.</DIV>

[Gnomie]

<DIV>Wasted points in hastenings? Lol what are you smoking those points improve all those spells cast time and reuse and even damage. The end result is actually raising our single target dps and the final ability is godlike.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>giot</DIV>

[TheStateFish]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gnomie wrote:<BR> <DIV>Wasted points in hastenings? Lol what are you smoking those points improve all those spells cast time and reuse and even damage. The end result is actually raising our single target dps and the final ability is godlike.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>giot</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok, by wasting, I'm comparing it to the explosives line. Every point there increases the damage and range of an aoe. Very Nice. </P> <P>Hastenings speeds up 2 spells (the dots) that we can already cast faster than their reuse, and 1 spell (soul blister) that is used maybe once every fight or three. 9 points wasted there. The next 2 are nice, thwart and distortion. Infestation isn't great as the pets don't nuke every second as far as I've seen, so you may get 1-2 more nukes from them when you put all 5 points into it. The final ability is nice, but passive beats active buffs in general, and for every 15 seconds it's up, its down for 2 minutes 41 seconds.</P> <P>Removals is nice. The addition to dispel magic especially as I can debuff the SK vampires in the Inner Sanctum without pulling aggro. The SK on the raid can do it on a longer refresh timer and it tends to pull aggro. Add to that Str, Int, PR/DR debuffs of increased potency and everyone on the raid is getting more bang for the buck. The Final spell in the line will help keep everyone out of aoes, and its a fast cast 50m pull with little aggro if you need to grab an eyeball in DT from a distance.</P> <P>Protection is just that. Works good on a raid lacking threat decrease in your group. A proper raid force make it a waste of aa's.</P> <P>Propagation line seems least useful of all. </P> <P> </P> <P>Theres my reasoning for wasting points in hastenings. 3 points in each of the first 3 spells down the line are useless.</P>

[Keitho]

Upgrade to the DOTS is great ... it makes the dots go faster ..so its much better <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<div><blockquote><hr>TheStateFish wrote:<div></div><p>Hastenings speeds up 2 spells (the dots) that we can already cast faster than their reuse,</p><p><font color="#ffff00">Wait, what? Do you know how these actually work? They tick faster... so they end faster... so the damage happens sooner. Instead of being wasted because the mob dies before the dot even finishes. Definately worthwhile.</font></p><p> and 1 spell (soul blister) that is used maybe once every fight or three.</p><p><font color="#ffff00">Excuse me? At 2s cast and 3s recast (</font><font color="#ffff00"><i>before</i></font><font color="#ffff00"> any casting reduction), I can toss it in between every second spell. And with the damage increase, it becomes even better power/damage ratio. When fighting single mobs, I use this spell over 10 times per creature.</font></p><p>The final ability is nice, but passive beats active buffs in general, and for every 15 seconds it's up, its down for 2 minutes 41 seconds.</p><p><font color="#ffff00">Wrong. Active beats passive any day of the week. What would you prefer, ~300 damage going off randomly once in a while? Or the choice to land 50k+ when you feel like with a long recast? Isn't that the EXACT issue people are having with Aftershock vs Lifeburn/Manaburn? They give the choice, so it's better?</font></p><hr></blockquote>What some folks seem to forget when they run their numbers is that all that extra damage is useless if you can't get your spells in. If things die, or wipe the raid, before you can get a fraction of your damage done then that bonus damage and such is only fractionally beneficial.When I fire off Hastenings, I can toss in all my group damage spells within those 15 seconds, including the detaunts.For 21 points, speeding up all my single target DPS spells and having the ability to once per raid fight (or two if fast kills) burn through my spells on the burn call, before anything dies and maximising my DPS... DEFINATELY worth it.</div>

[TheStateFish]

<FONT color=#ff0000></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheStateFish wrote:<BR> <P>Hastenings speeds up 2 spells (the dots) that we can already cast faster than their reuse,</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Wait, what? Do you know how these actually work? They tick faster... so they end faster... so the damage happens sooner. Instead of being wasted because the mob dies before the dot even finishes. Definately worthwhile.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Well I seem to have misread the dots and assumed them to be similar to the dd spells in the effect of the AA's. Necro's like the short dot's, so it can't be a bad thing for us. </FONT></P> <P>and 1 spell (soul blister) that is used maybe once every fight or three.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Excuse me? At 2s cast and 3s recast (</FONT><FONT color=#ffff00><I>before</I></FONT><FONT color=#ffff00> any casting reduction), I can toss it in between every second spell. And with the damage increase, it becomes even better power/damage ratio. When fighting single mobs, I use this spell over 10 times per creature.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>The only time I use Soul Blister is at the end of a fight when I need a short cast damage spell to hit before the mob drops from 3%-1%-dead. Nebula is a much better choice during normal rotation as the damage is higher and it can proc aftershock. If you are keeping your dots up and hitting your dd's as they come up, including absolution and nebula, you won;t have time to waste on soul blister. My dps is higher without it in my normal rotation.</FONT><BR></P> <P>The final ability is nice, but passive beats active buffs in general, and for every 15 seconds it's up, its down for 2 minutes 41 seconds.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Wrong. Active beats passive any day of the week. What would you prefer, ~300 damage going off randomly once in a while? Or the choice to land 50k+ when you feel like with a long recast? Isn't that the EXACT issue people are having with Aftershock vs Lifeburn/Manaburn? They give the choice, so it's better?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><FONT color=#ff0000>Wrong. Passive beats active. Thats why the Str line without catalyst is so popular. Thats why the agi line beats the wis line for dps. Thats why in the wis line you max brainstorm and only put 4-5 points into freehand sorcery.</FONT></FONT><FONT color=#ffff00><FONT color=#ff0000> Look at the Dracomancer gloves, nice ability but long recast. You swap them on to cast it then go to another pair of gloves with a passive buff, be it FT, self-help book, or deaggro. We don't have an option to hit for 50k plus on even a long recast timer, but if we had such a spell it may be the exception to the rule. Otherwise passive will always beat active. </FONT><BR></FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>What some folks seem to forget when they run their numbers is that all that extra damage is useless if you can't get your spells in. If things die, or wipe the raid, before you can get a fraction of your damage done then that bonus damage and such is only fractionally beneficial.<BR><BR>When I fire off Hastenings, I can toss in all my group damage spells within those 15 seconds, including the detaunts.<BR><BR><BR>For 21 points, speeding up all my single target DPS spells and having the ability to once per raid fight (or two if fast kills) burn through my spells on the burn call, before anything dies and maximising my DPS... DEFINATELY worth it.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>Now, I'll be respecing tonight to try Hastenings to see the dps compared to the data I now have for Explosives. I don't expect my overall numbers at the end of the night to be higher, rather lower if anything, but I do expect to parse higher on some fights that I had trouble on. I also expect to pull aggro in situations that I never did in the past. I'm open to it, and hope it will be a worthy addition to Explosives, but I'm still leaning toward Removals at this point.</FONT>

[Gnomie]

<DIV>Soul blister is 1 second faster cast than nebula, and also more damage with the AA into it. no reason to cast slow [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] nebula on a single target.  And dont get me started on the refesh comparison.</DIV>

[TheStateFish]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gnomie wrote:<BR> <DIV>Soul blister is 1 second faster cast than nebula, and also more damage with the AA into it. no reason to cast slow [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] nebula on a single target.  And dont get me started on the refesh comparison.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>With 3 points into Soul Blister and none into Nebula, Nebula does more damage than Soul Blister with 688 Int. With Explosives + Hastenings, Nebula will do as much more damage than Soul Blister as it will without either AA.</P> <P>With 3 points in Soul Blister, none in Nebula:</P> <P>Soul Blister 836-1552</P> <P>Nebula 839-1558</P> <P>It's a viable alternative now for single targets with the Soul Blister AA but not Nebula, but without either, or with both aa's Nebula will still be a better option. </P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<font color="#ffff00"><font color="#ff0000">Wrong. Passive beats active. Thats why the Str line without catalyst is so popular.<font color="#ffff00">People like seeing big numbers, and are told by everyone that "crits are good". That doesn't mean they parse better.</font> Thats why the agi line beats the wis line for dps.<font color="#ffff00">Lol, and one thread away is a bunch of folks saying Wisdom beats the stuffing out of Agility. Whose <i>opinion</i> is this one? Not the popular one it seems anyways...Personally, I think Agility line does well because of the cast/recast isn't represented well in theories because they don't take into account everything.</font> Thats why in the wis line you max brainstorm and only put 4-5 points into freehand sorcery.<font color="#ffff00">No, that's called improving the obviously more powerful ability. The 2nd tier abilities have ALWAYS been lesser in power. Find two equal level abilities for comparison.</font></font></font><font color="#ffff00"><font color="#ff0000"> Look at the Dracomancer gloves, nice ability but long recast. You swap them on to cast it then go to another pair of gloves with a passive buff, be it FT, self-help book, or deaggro.<font color="#ffff00">That's called min/maxing. Note that you still use the castable ones.A better comparison would be to compare two items, one that does very low but always ticking regen, and another one that gives a lot at once with a recast timer. And then ONLY have access to ONE, EVER.The passive one will be ticking when you don't need it, wasting it's power. The castable one can be used when you need it, rarely ever being wasted.</font></font></font>The thing is, Aftershock will proc early in fights... or on trash mobs when it won't matter, or whatnot.Already, I've run into grouping situations where an extra group added and to survive we had to burn down the original group as fast as possible. If I had Aftershocks I wouldn't be able to do anything about it.. nothing to react with.With Hastenings I could lay down a bunch of front end DPS to the original group, killing them off very quick, so the tank ended up not having two whole groups wailing on him at once.All things being equal... I'd rather have the ability to choose when I slap on that extra damage than have it spread the extra 5% or so over the whole 2 hours. Other than the fact that Aftershocks is power free damage, I don't really see the worth of it.

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<div><blockquote><hr>TheStateFish wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Gnomie wrote: <div></div> <div>Soul blister is 1 second faster cast than nebula, and also more damage with the AA into it. no reason to cast slow [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] nebula on a single target.  And dont get me started on the refesh comparison.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>With 3 points into Soul Blister and none into Nebula, Nebula does more damage than Soul Blister with 688 Int. With Explosives + Hastenings, Nebula will do as much more damage than Soul Blister as it will without either AA.</p> <p>With 3 points in Soul Blister, none in Nebula:</p> <p>Soul Blister 836-1552</p> <p>Nebula 839-1558</p> <p>It's a viable alternative now for single targets with the Soul Blister AA but not Nebula, but without either, or with both aa's Nebula will still be a better option. </p><hr></blockquote>Two things.First, you are ignoring the recast completely.At 5 ranks (why not, you are needing 20 to get Hastenings anyways), it's 2s cast, 3s recast, 0.5s recovery.Nebula is 3s cast, 9s recast, 0.5s recovery.In a damage per second concept, we are looking at 5.5s vs 12.5s. ~2.3x more effective if you intend to cast it over and over in a single target fight. Which is exactly what I'm talking about.Not to mention it's also ~2.25x more power efficient, so for the same Power used, you are ending up with over 2x the damage when used constantly.That doesn't take into account the Explosives line of course... which brings my to my second point.You <i>have</i> to put points into Soul Blister if you want to expand into Hastenings. Nebula is <i>an option.</i> You have to weigh increasing that, vs increasing Void Absolution and Apocalypse. Or spending an extra 5 points to get the extra damage.And besides.. an extra 10% more damage won't compare to 200% you are getting with Soul Blister with recast taken into account.</div>

[Eriol]

<blockquote><hr>Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:All things being equal... I'd rather have the ability to choose when I slap on that extra damage than have it spread the extra 5% or so over the whole 2 hours. Other than the fact that Aftershocks is power free damage, I don't really see the worth of it.<hr></blockquote>This is a feeling I agree with. Being able to perform <i>significantly</i> better in the "oh crap" situations is to my mind more valuable than a steady (but minor) increase over the entire length of a dungeon. It doesn't matter as much if I'm not #1 in the zonewide parse, as long as it's known "you really performed in that situation" is a feeling that everybody remembers more.

[Blackcompany]

<P>I just respeced to Focused Casting instead of Aftershocks (75 AA atm).  Combined that with a move from Int to Str in the Sorc line (kept Full Agi line), just to see what the fuss was about.</P> <P> </P> <P>I positively guarantee we will get Focused Casting nerfed in the next update or two at the most.  This line is sick in PvP.  My group was literally speechless every time we hit a group.  I singlehandedly dropped half of the opposing force in 15 secs.  No joke.</P> <P> </P> <P>I am a full believer, no question.  If you PvP and have the AA, get Focused Casting before it goes the way of Amazing Reflexes*.</P> <P> </P> <P>*Unless your a Q or Exile on Venakor.  Then go with Propogations line.  Works much better for your factions...</P>

[drajev]

<DIV>A few parsers from emerald halls last night, that's a single target mob, think it was actually 2 merged fights when another added. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Allies: (02:07) 3084210 | 24285 [Arwenia-Ice Nova-18978]"<BR>(1167862574)[Wed Jan 03 23:16:14 2007] "Veli | 1802"<BR>(1167862574)[Wed Jan 03 23:16:14 2007] "Arwe | 1709"<BR>(1167862574)[Wed Jan 03 23:16:14 2007] "Chee | 1616"<BR>(1167862574)[Wed Jan 03 23:16:14 2007] "Gold | 1514"<BR>(1167862574)[Wed Jan 03 23:16:14 2007] "Faul | 1508"<BR>(1167862574)[Wed Jan 03 23:16:14 2007] "Peti | 1498"<BR>(1167862574)[Wed Jan 03 23:16:14 2007] "Burn | 1480"<BR>(1167862574)[Wed Jan 03 23:16:14 2007] "Rill | 1477"<BR>(1167862574)[Wed Jan 03 23:16:14 2007] "Bare | 1459"<BR>(1167862574)[Wed Jan 03 23:16:14 2007] "Xlae | 1284"<BR>(1167862574)[Wed Jan 03 23:16:14 2007] "Flae | 1145"<BR>(1167862574)[Wed Jan 03 23:16:14 2007] "Brav | 1121"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another single target trash</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(4),"Allies: (00:56) 1558615 | 27832 [Arwenia-Ice Nova-18801]"<BR>(1167863056)[Wed Jan 03 23:24:16 2007] Arwe | 2692" - wiz<BR>(1167863056)[Wed Jan 03 23:24:16 2007] Veli | 2359" - me<BR>(1167863056)[Wed Jan 03 23:24:16 2007] Bare | 2266" - necro <BR>(1167863056)[Wed Jan 03 23:24:16 2007] Chee | 1947" - swash<BR>(1167863056)[Wed Jan 03 23:24:16 2007] Rill | 1897" - brig<BR>(1167863056)[Wed Jan 03 23:24:16 2007] Xlae | 1800" - brig<BR>(1167863056)[Wed Jan 03 23:24:16 2007] Gold | 1759" - ranger<BR>(1167863056)[Wed Jan 03 23:24:16 2007] Peti | 1596" - conj<BR>(1167863056)[Wed Jan 03 23:24:16 2007] Burn | 1506" - guard<BR>(1167863056)[Wed Jan 03 23:24:16 2007] Faul | 1448" - swash</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's a named, 75x4 with adds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Allies: (05:45) 6452195 | 18702 [Arwenia-Ice Nova-20169]"<BR>(1167865100)[Wed Jan 03 23:58:20 2007] Arwe | 1794"<BR>(1167865100)[Wed Jan 03 23:58:20 2007] Rill | 1556"<BR>(1167865100)[Wed Jan 03 23:58:20 2007] Peti | 1461"<BR>(1167865100)[Wed Jan 03 23:58:20 2007] Veli | 1460"<BR>(1167865100)[Wed Jan 03 23:58:20 2007] Bare | 1415"<BR>(1167865100)[Wed Jan 03 23:58:20 2007] Flae | 1399"<BR>(1167865100)[Wed Jan 03 23:58:20 2007] Faul | 1283"<BR>(1167865100)[Wed Jan 03 23:58:20 2007] Gold | 1093"<BR>(1167865100)[Wed Jan 03 23:58:20 2007]Chee | 1087"<BR>(1167865100)[Wed Jan 03 23:58:20 2007] Xlae | 987"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The order is wiz, brig, conj, me - warlock, necro, illusionist, swash, ranger, swash, brig</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those dps are consistent, no miracles have been used at all, I have 95 AAs and that was the first raid with both Focused casting and aftershock. I'm on Full Agi and Str without catalist on the sorcerer tree. Those selected parsers are not rly selected but i'm talking about consistent dps every single fight. For all the non-believers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Velizar, Fable</DIV> <DIV>Splitpaw</DIV>

[Niun01]

Ok, I finally broke down and respeced.. I can tell you I will never go back without even a second though.I was currently speced Strength/wisdom with 19AAs in explosive. I reseced to Agility/wisdom and put the 16AAs in Haste line and 3 into Chaostorm for the increase in damage and area.  I have seen a considerable increase in my DPS.On single mob fights with the old spec, I was parsing between 1k and 1300.With the new respec I consistantly parse from 1400 to 2k on single targets.  That is a major difference IMO and will not go back.<div></div>

[Keitho]

<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Andromax1]

yea i just went from STR/WIS to AGI/WIS I never had catalyst. I've definately noticed an increase in dps also. Have 98 AA now, gonna try to get 100 today. Straight down hastenings and explosives btw. Broodling AA is still bugged. BTW, since ive switched from STR to AGI- I havent been critting that much less...

[Skargr]

<DIV>I'm a new Warlock at level 18. I solo and group but obviously don't raid at my level. Some cracking advice in this thread but I get the feeling its all raid-based.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What would you suggest for I take in terms of AAs? Presumably the STR line would help my soloing greatly due to the bigger DPS - is AGI really worth it in my case or should I be looking at Str/Wis?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any input would be great.</DIV>

[Pilgrim Divine]

<div></div>imo, for soloing and grping, str/wis is doing it for me and has served me well. As you say, a lot of advice is with raiding in mind but fast casts & recasts wont aid me as much a guaranteed FHS critted void or apoalypse when soloing or in grps. plus, im a sucker for big numbers. a focused casted. FHS, catalysted Apocalypse is awesome on single or grp mobs, I dont notice long cast times as much with hastenings and focused casting so i dont miss the agil line.plus, i still parse well on raids, if i was getting embarrassingly low parses, i might be tempted to respec to str/agil or wis/agil based on advice here but based on past experience, wouldnt not like it as much in grps or solo. just my personal pref tho..<div></div><p>Message Edited by Pilgrim Divine on <span class=date_text>01-10-2007</span> <span class=time_text>08:30 AM</span>

[Eriol]

IMO besides taking the 1 point for your familiar, I'd go down hastenings in the warlock tree first. Or at least take the first ability to maximum, as you'll use that nuke more than anything else for quite a while. After getting full hastenings with the end ability (that's an extreme "BOOM" ability, casting twice as fast), then perhaps take the other advice here, or not, at your preference.