What's the trick

[Draugheimens]

<DIV>Long time reader, first time poster.  I've recently to made a warlock, 22 right now and I do love playing the class so far.  One question though, what's the trick in grouping, pug's particular, to not pulling aggro all the time and making the healer do double the work.  Question is raised due to a pug in FG I was in, I know I can burn the mobs down and I know I can't start burning off the bat, but it seems that like even when I wait a few seconds for everyone else to start bashing away on the mob and I finally start doing my thing the mob gets warlock hungry.   Thanks in advance. </DIV>

[Terayon]

Best "trick" i can give you... Never group with a monk if i can avoid it! Puh... im a 55 warlock myself, and the only tank type thats ever let me "unleash" myself is a Guardian and some Zerkers.As for your aggro issues, while you "slack" on DPS take a note and watch for the "red  face" on the mob groups. If your tank is trying to Damage the mob.. He/she is a [Removed for Content]... Their ONLY duty is to Activly Gain Hate. They should be Spamming Not Stop as soon as a Hate CA comes up, it should be pressed just as quickly.Also, I would pump AA points into your INT area, you can get an extra active Deaggro, albiet Single target, but still its got a quick refresh timer so its valuable.Also Make Chat with ALOT of healers... buddy up to em cause asa  warlock your gonna stress some of em out :p((I make it known early on that Im an aggro magnet, While I will try to manage a decent level, I need the tank to be on his/her toes)) For the most part now I have people seek me out, BECAUSE of my tactics. hehe sometimes I feel like a healer when I have to /anon to avoid random invites!<div></div>

[Frank Sojourner]

<DIV><FONT size=2> <P>I rarely post, but I respectfully disagree with some of the previous poster's assertations. My perspective is that of a lvl. 70 warlock and a lvl. 60 zerker (retired pre-KOS).</P> <P>"<FONT color=#ffff33>As for your aggro issues, while you "slack" on DPS take a note and watch for the "red face" on the mob groups. If your tank is trying to Damage the mob.. He/she is a [Removed for Content]... Their ONLY duty is to Activly Gain Hate. They should be Spamming Not Stop as soon as a Hate CA comes up, it should be pressed just as quickly</FONT>." </P> <P>It sounds like you are saying that tanks should only use taunts or the few CA's that have hate gain attached? I thought 1 pt. of dmg. = 1 pt. of hate. As a tank, depending on the mob (on rare occasions you have mobs with dmg. shields or insane riposte rates), you had better believe I was always trying to maximise my dps, in between my taunts and casting buffs for good measure. The bottom line is that the dps a tank does + the point total of taunts + any added hate from procs, transfers, buffs, etc. must be greater than the amount of dps you are doing to the mob in question or you are going to get aggro.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>"Best "trick" i can give you... Never group with a monk if i can avoid it!"</FONT></P> <P>Depends on what you are hunting. In my experience, if it is single mob encounters, a monk is one of the absolute best at keeping aggro as their single target dps is so high and if they do lose it due to resists, blocks, parries or whatever they are one of the best at ripping aggro back. As a class brawlers have fewer tools to maintain aggro in a multi-mob encounter, but individual skill can make up for it.</P> <P>Now to answer the OP's question. It depends, is the best answer I can give. There are many variables to consider, what classes are in the group? what is the skill level of the players? what is the level of gear, CA's and spells? what are you hunting? what con are the mobs you are trying to kill? etc.</P> <P>If I'm in a situation where I know the group or myself isn't in imminent danger I'll burn them down and not worry about aggro. If the encounters hit too hard for me to be able to tank one or two of them or the healer is low on power, I'll back off. Taking a little longer to win the encounter and losing a spot or two on the parse, is much better than a wipe or losing a lot of spots on the parser because you can't cast when you're dead. </P> <P>I do run a parser when I group or raid, after a few encounters I'll get a feel for where I need to maintain dps. Some tanks I'll be safe to peak at 2,300+ dps where others if I would spike more than 1,600 I'd get aggro in group situations. Warlocks tend to be spike damage dealers, understand/learn when in a fight it is safe to spike and how big that spike can be.  </P> <P>So you learn your spells, your casting cycles, how your dps works, and learn how different tanks manage aggro then adjust it to the current setting. Also, realize taunts get resisted, even with master level taunts when pulling a group of 3 or more chances are at least one mob is going to resist the taunt and it seems like it is always one the tank isn't currently targetting, so if you lead with an encounter spell, the mob will head straight for you.  If you see a 'Resisted' above one of the mob's heads on the pull, start with your single target spells to give the tank a chance to lock down aggro.</P> <P>I don't think there can be a set method of avoiding all aggro issues while still fulfilling our role in a group to the best of our ability or a specific casting cycle that will give max dps in all situations. I prefer it that way, you need to find what works for you in the situation you are in, then find a way to better it. At 70 I'm still trying to get better at what I do.</P> <P> </P></FONT></DIV>

[terrified kill]

<div>lol yet another one of these morons lol tanks are more for just taunting specially zerkers ya they should taunt whenever they are up but in between is where they should be focusing on dps (1 the mob goes down faster 2 the dps ADDS on to hate especiallly zerkers which dps makes up 1/3 of thier overall hate) so learn 2 play before you give peeps advice<blockquote><hr>Terayon wrote:Best "trick" i can give you... Never group with a monk if i can avoid it! Puh... im a 55 warlock myself, and the only tank type thats ever let me "unleash" myself is a Guardian and some Zerkers.As for your aggro issues, while you "slack" on DPS take a note and watch for the "red  face" on the mob groups. If<b> your tank is trying to Damage the mob.. He/she is a [Removed for Content]... Their ONLY duty is to Activly Gain Hate. They should be Spamming Not Stop as soon as a Hate CA comes up, it should be pressed just as quickly.</b>Also, I would pump AA points into your INT area, you can get an extra active Deaggro, albiet Single target, but still its got a quick refresh timer so its valuable.Also Make Chat with ALOT of healers... buddy up to em cause asa  warlock your gonna stress some of em out :p((I make it known early on that Im an aggro magnet, While I will try to manage a decent level, I need the tank to be on his/her toes)) For the most part now I have people seek me out, BECAUSE of my tactics. hehe sometimes I feel like a healer when I have to /anon to avoid random invites!<div></div><hr></blockquote></div>

[terrified kill]

<div>decent advice but to ultilize a warlock to its fullest you should be in a area with alot of goruped ^ ^^ and the ocasional gorups of ^^^ and while monks can generate ALOT of single target hate they lack in encounter hate thus the warlock woudl be better off being a wizard<blockquote><hr>Frank Sojourner wrote:<div><font size="2"> <p>I rarely post, but I respectfully disagree with some of the previous poster's assertations. My perspective is that of a lvl. 70 warlock and a lvl. 60 zerker (retired pre-KOS).</p> <p>"<font color="#ffff33">As for your aggro issues, while you "slack" on DPS take a note and watch for the "red face" on the mob groups. If your tank is trying to Damage the mob.. He/she is a [Removed for Content]... Their ONLY duty is to Activly Gain Hate. They should be Spamming Not Stop as soon as a Hate CA comes up, it should be pressed just as quickly</font>." </p> <p>It sounds like you are saying that tanks should only use taunts or the few CA's that have hate gain attached? I thought 1 pt. of dmg. = 1 pt. of hate. As a tank, depending on the mob (on rare occasions you have mobs with dmg. shields or insane riposte rates), you had better believe I was always trying to maximise my dps, in between my taunts and casting buffs for good measure. The bottom line is that the dps a tank does + the point total of taunts + any added hate from procs, transfers, buffs, etc. must be greater than the amount of dps you are doing to the mob in question or you are going to get aggro.</p> <p><b><font color="#ffff33">"Best "trick" i can give you... Never group with a monk if i can avoid it!"</font></b></p> <p><b>Depends on what you are hunting. In my experience, if it is single mob encounters, a monk is one of the absolute best at keeping aggro as their single target dps is so high and if they do lose it due to resists, blocks, parries or whatever they are one of the best at ripping aggro back. As a class brawlers have fewer tools to maintain aggro in a multi-mob encounter, but individual skill can make up for it.</b></p> <p>Now to answer the OP's question. It depends, is the best answer I can give. There are many variables to consider, what classes are in the group? what is the skill level of the players? what is the level of gear, CA's and spells? what are you hunting? what con are the mobs you are trying to kill? etc.</p> <p><b>If I'm in a situation where I know the group or myself isn't in imminent danger I'll burn them down and not worry about aggro. If the encounters hit too hard for me to be able to tank one or two of them or the healer is low on power, I'll back off. Taking a little longer to win the encounter and losing a spot or two on the parse, is much better than a wipe or losing a lot of spots on the parser because you can't cast when you're dead.</b></p><i>this technique can equal better exp effeciently given the ease of the encounter of course but as you said this technique can be dangerous (especially if the mobs like yous aid here are too tough) but would be used clearing trash along the way to the decent stuff (a bunch of aggro lower arrow or double lower arror or triple lower arrow mobs along the way to the good stuff)</i> <p>I do run a parser when I group or raid, after a few encounters I'll get a feel for where I need to maintain dps. Some tanks I'll be safe to peak at 2,300+ dps where others if I would spike more than 1,600 I'd get aggro in group situations. Warlocks tend to be spike damage dealers, understand/learn when in a fight it is safe to spike and how big that spike can be.  </p> <p><b>So you learn your spells, your casting cycles, how your dps works, and learn how different tanks manage aggro then adjust it to the current setting. Also, realize taunts get resisted, even with master level taunts when pulling a group of 3 or more chances are at least one mob is going to resist the taunt and it seems like it is always one the tank isn't currently targetting, so if you lead with an encounter spell, the mob will head straight for you.  If you see a 'Resisted' above one of the mob's heads on the pull, start with your single target spells to give the tank a chance to lock down aggro.</b></p><p><i>i'd recoommend that you try to listen to the resist sound effect and take a quick pause in casting to ensure it wasnt a tanks taunt being resisted</i></p> <p>I don't think there can be a set method of avoiding all aggro issues while still fulfilling our role in a group to the best of our ability or a specific casting cycle that will give max dps in all situations. I prefer it that way, you need to find what works for you in the situation you are in, then find a way to better it. At 70 I'm still trying to get better at what I do.</p> <p> <i>true due to the variety of group/raid experience you'll encounter and how often the taunts get resisted heck maybe the tank will be so lucky to not get one single resisted taunt on a single encounter</i></p></font></div><hr></blockquote></div>

[matinisback]

<DIV>a warlock should never get agro</DIV>

[Inebriation]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> coltsfancolts wrote:<BR> <DIV>a warlock should never get agro</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ideally, yes.. but that's never the case. There will be times if you're playing your class efficiently, you will pull aggro from time to time. We have plenty of tools for hate reduction, the vulian line of spells is now an encounter hate reduction, as well as Concussive. Later on(lvl 55) you will get Null Caress which is a PB aoe teleport/slow with a little bit of hate reduction along with it. Also take advantage of any hate reduc. class types. For example Guardians with their Moderate, Paladins with their Amends, or Troubadors with their little yellow flower things. Best part is the yellow flower stacks with Moderate. So my advice: Find a cute girlfriend, get her playing EQ2 and tell her to make a troub so that she can always play with you.<p>Message Edited by Inebriation on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:43 AM</span>

[matinisback]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Inebriation wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> coltsfancolts wrote:<BR> <DIV>a warlock should never get agro</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ideally, yes.. but that's never the case. There will be times if you're playing your class efficiently, you will pull aggro from time to time. We have plenty of tools for hate reduction, the vulian line of spells is now an encounter hate reduction, as well as Concussive. Later on(lvl 55) you will get Null Caress which is a PB aoe teleport/slow with a little bit of hate reduction along with it. Also take advantage of any hate reduc. class types. For example Guardians with their Moderate, Paladins with their Amends, or Troubadors with their little yellow flower things. Best part is the yellow flower stacks with Moderate. So my advice: Find a cute girlfriend, get her playing EQ2 and tell her to make a troub so that she can always play with you. <P>Message Edited by Inebriation on <SPAN class=date_text>12-13-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>05:43 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>untill when u use nul caress and then u pull a bunch of mob's and u get yelled @</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Pilgrim Divine]

concussive and vulian for groups & raids are de rigeur,but null caress is just for raids, not groups. The teleport doesnt work on epics but the deaggro part of it can be a life saver if the other two are on cooldown and you have just critted on apocalypse, lol<div></div>

[Inebriation]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>coltsfancolts wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Inebriation wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> coltsfancolts wrote: <div></div> <div>a warlock should never get agro</div> <hr> </blockquote>Ideally, yes.. but that's never the case. There will be times if you're playing your class efficiently, you will pull aggro from time to time. We have plenty of tools for hate reduction, the vulian line of spells is now an encounter hate reduction, as well as Concussive. Later on(lvl 55) you will get Null Caress which is a PB aoe teleport/slow with a little bit of hate reduction along with it. Also take advantage of any hate reduc. class types. For example Guardians with their Moderate, Paladins with their Amends, or Troubadors with their little yellow flower things. Best part is the yellow flower stacks with Moderate. So my advice: Find a cute girlfriend, get her playing EQ2 and tell her to make a troub so that she can always play with you. <p>Message Edited by Inebriation on <span class="date_text">12-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:43 AM</span></p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>untill when u use nul caress and then u pull a bunch of mob's and u get yelled @</p> <hr></blockquote>Your job as a warlock to make sure you don't do that. :p And if anything, Null Caress is much more effective in groups than raids, not for hate reduction, but just keeping yourself from dieing. Teleports the mobs away from melee range(sometimes.. other time it can be really [Removed for Content] and it just teleports the mob right inside you), on top of that slows the target so the tank as more time getting the mob off of you.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Inebriation on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:04 AM</span>