EoF Warlock Update *Edited with New Info*

[Ibunubi]

<P><STRONG><EM>** Scroll down to the ~9th post for my next update on Beta Warlock Info ** </EM></STRONG>I didn't feel like making a new thread since it'd be like a new thread everyday.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>1. ) The AA that increased the Effect Radius of our spells is now the new home for the group increase/decrease hate buff (which used to be on the right side Removals just below the War Pyre AA). The purpose for this now empty spot below War Pyre has yet to be determined.</P> <P><IMG src="http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/2191/vacuousjj9.jpg"></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV>And extra information... The above ability does stack with the Concussive improvement AA.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>2. )  I think they changed the numbers on Concussive, also. It seems they have decreased the maximum <STRONG>but</STRONG> <EM>increased</EM> the minimum, both by ~500, making it more streamline. The following picture was taken with full Concussive AA and full Vacuous AA.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV><IMG src="http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8792/newconcnh1.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>3. ) Here's the new Nullmail (it says 17 seconds because I added the maximum +5 from the AA). "Prevents AOE."</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><IMG src="http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6167/nullmailcf6.jpg"></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>4. ) I still do not know about what Aftershocks will be (that replaced the AOE Manaburn "Cataclysm" ).</P> <P>Message Edited by Ibunubi on <SPAN class=date_text>11-09-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:37 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Ibunubi on <SPAN class=date_text>11-10-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:27 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Ibunubi on <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:27 AM</span>

[Groma]

Good stuff man, keep it coming. Really want to know what Aftershock is going to be like.<div></div>

[Eriol]

What's the % on the hate increase buff that Coercers get? In a way, this achievement is similar, so a Warlock may be wanted in a MT group for a raid if there isn't a better hate-increasing class around. Definitely wanted if it's a pally tank, but with this, it could be wanted for non-amends tanks as well.VERY interesting.

[LorandakV]

<P>Wow.  If Vacuous stays that way it will become one of the new class defining skills for warlock.  If I am reading that correctly... this mean warlocks will boost troub/illus/coercer deagg by 15%, add 15% to pally (42%?) amends, add 15% to the 39% already offered by dirges/coercers, and boost all scout tranfers in the warlock's group.  Not to mention make the Boon line transfer go from a piddly 4% to 19%!</P> <P>This is an incredible skill and will make warlock stock rise immeasurably.  Combined with other deaggro AA's it could change the warlock from being the class that a raid is built around.. to the class that can give incredible benefits to any group.  Keep your fingers crossed that this ability sticks around.</P> <P>Edit: cant speel</P><p>Message Edited by LorandakV on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:05 PM</span>

[Dabbie]

Originally, from the pictures i saw, Vacuous only increased "non permanent buffs"--so things like concussive, but not hate transfers. Did this change? If it changed to where it will affect transfers and the troub deaggro song, this would be a very nice ability. If it still only increases hate dumped on emergency type spells, it's not as exciting. <div></div>

[Lenefir]

Also, if Vacuous does indeed work for permanent hate transfers, would it be (i) a 15 percent of the transfer, or (ii) 15 percentage points added to the transfer?(i) 15% of the original 4% (at master 1).  Let's imagine you do a damage spell that creates 1000 points of hate.  4% of  that would be 40 points of hate.  Add 15% to those 40 points and it would give you 46 points of hate transferred/reduced.(ii) 15 percentage points added to the original 4% (again at master 1).  15% + 4% = 19%.  For 1000 points of hate that would be 190 points of hate transferred/reduced.From the wording of the spell, and if you doubt it works on permanent transfers, I would be inclined to believe it is option (i)

[Araxes]

It's a percentage not a flat rate in addition to an already granted buff.  You wouldn't get 19% from Boon.  You'de get an additional 15% of the 4% transfer which - as the above poster has stated - is significantly less.However it's still a very useful ability.<div></div>

[Ibunubi]

<P>From the wording, it says it modifies abilities that deal with an <STRONG>amount</STRONG> of hate, which to me, does <STRONG>not</STRONG> include permanent buffs (amends, troubador, etc) and <STRONG>only</STRONG> affects abilities/spells such as Concussive and taunts.</P> <P>To the above poster, hypothetically, yes, it would be (i). I also play a coercer and with Cataclysmic Mind, they give us an AA that makes it deal 25% more effective. Originally, Cata Mind does 400%. With the AA, it now does 500%. ( 400 times 1.25 = 500). </P>

[gaarder]

<P>From the wording, it says it modifies abilities that deal with an <STRONG>amount</STRONG> of hate, which to me, does <STRONG>not</STRONG> include permanent buffs (amends, troubador, etc) and <STRONG>only</STRONG> affects abilities/spells such as Concussive and taunts. </P> <P> </P> <P>exactly, the description on my beta test warlock abt this AA clearly states that this AA ONLY AFFECT NON PERMANENT agro/deagro ability</P>

[Ibunubi]

<P>After tonight, some new changes to the stuff I first posted.</P> <P>1. ) the AA "Vacuous" is now changed to cost a one-time only AA point for the 15% modifier. It no longer costs 5 AA's.</P> <P>2. ) Concussive's numbers have increased.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><IMG src="http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1108/newconcpq6.jpg"></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>3. ) Here's Vulian Nullification's numbers (with Vacuous AA modifier) just for later reference.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><IMG src="http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4247/vulianvz5.jpg"></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>4. ) I just noticed they had altered Curse of Isolation a bit, making it ... well, less useless as before. But certainly a step in the right direction.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><IMG src="http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9387/curseofisonu6.jpg"></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Malice83]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ibunubi wrote:<div></div> <p>4. ) I just noticed they had altered Curse of Isolation a bit, making it ... well, less useless as before. But certainly a step in the right direction.</p> <blockquote dir="ltr"> <blockquote dir="ltr"> <p><img src="http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9387/curseofisonu6.jpg"></p></blockquote></blockquote><hr></blockquote>Not bad for raid mobs, considering the casting time is 2 secs, to bad that the mob will have taken 20k damage from >insert leet scout CA's here< by the time you get it off thus making it do... well.. nothing. If only it would affect mobs who have already lost health.Would be fun if it worked on PvP raids though. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Shazam! "Debuffed!"</div>

[EpokSilvermo]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Malice83 wrote:<div>Not bad for raid mobs, considering the casting time is 2 secs, to bad that the mob will have taken 20k damage from >insert leet scout CA's here< by the time you get it off thus making it do... well.. nothing. If only it would affect mobs who have already lost health.</div><hr></blockquote>Actually I just tested that a few days ago - on gray mobs - and the health pool is decreased even if the mob did take some damage before the debuff. The most obvious proof was that he mob died from that debuff if his health was already below the debuff amount. No kidding. Or I was the victim of a bug or very odd side effects of whatever.EDIT: And no I did not have any DoT on it or any damage shield on me  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Sorry if I miss anything here but the debuff seems to work anytime during the fight...</div><p>Message Edited by butchrulez on <span class="date_text">11-12-2006</span> <span class="time_text">08:16 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by butchrulez on <span class=date_text>11-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:18 PM</span>

[QQ-Fatman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Malice83 wrote: <DIV>Not bad for raid mobs, considering the casting time is 2 secs, to bad that the mob will have taken 20k damage from >insert leet scout CA's here< by the time you get it off thus making it do... well.. nothing. If only it would affect mobs who have already lost health.<BR><BR>Would be fun if it worked on PvP raids though. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Shazam! "Debuffed!"<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I did a test. A mob after debuffed will still have the same percentage of hp (or mana.) For example if a mob has 10000 max hp and 8000 current hp. You debuff its max hp by 5000, then it'll have 4000 / 5000 hp after debuffed. So no matter when you cast it, it'll still work <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><p>Message Edited by QQFatman on <span class=date_text>11-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:41 PM</span>

[Korpo]

It's been that way with STA debuffs for a long time, so either nobody noticed that this spell did it (who would notice a 800 point HP debuff or whatever?) or it got fixed. Good either way.<div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> QQFatman wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Malice83 wrote: <DIV>Not bad for raid mobs, considering the casting time is 2 secs, to bad that the mob will have taken 20k damage from >insert leet scout CA's here< by the time you get it off thus making it do... well.. nothing. If only it would affect mobs who have already lost health.<BR><BR>Would be fun if it worked on PvP raids though. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Shazam! "Debuffed!"<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I did a test. A mob after debuffed will still have the same percentage of hp (or mana.) For example if a mob has 10000 max hp and 8000 current hp. You debuff its max hp by 5000, then it'll have 4000 / 5000 hp after debuffed. So no matter when you cast it, it'll still work <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <P>Message Edited by QQFatman on <SPAN class=date_text>11-13-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:41 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>thats awesome because de-buffs dont generate as much hate as straight damage does.  Anyone know if the debuff logs as damage in the parser?  if not warlocks wont look like their doing as much damage as they really are.

[Tarta]

<P>Anyone know what happens to the mob's health if they live past the 1:12 duration of this debuff? Does it go back up by the same amount it was debuffed by, or does it stay the same? Just to be clear, I know the max health should go back up, but what about the health?</P> <P>If the health stays the same you could just cancel the buff and recast it after it's refresh interval - 16 sec - and shave another 5k off of that epic... That would be kinda nifty</P> <P>If the health goes back up then that relegates this spell to something to cast in the final minute of the fight, for sure.</P>

[Uumuuanu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ibunubi wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>4. ) I just noticed they had altered Curse of Isolation a bit, making it ... well, less useless as before. But certainly a step in the right direction.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><IMG src="http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9387/curseofisonu6.jpg"></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok, so call me stupid, but  honestly,  why not just make this a nuke,  isnt that reducing its health?    It should not be a static number, thats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Besides, 4k is one nuke.  It should be a % of the health or something else entirely.</P> <P> </P>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Uumuuanu wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ibunubi wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>4. ) I just noticed they had altered Curse of Isolation a bit, making it ... well, less useless as before. But certainly a step in the right direction.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><IMG src="http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9387/curseofisonu6.jpg"></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok, so call me stupid, but  honestly,  why not just make this a nuke,  isnt that reducing its health?    It should not be a static number, thats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Besides, 4k is one nuke.  It should be a % of the health or something else entirely.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>honestly why would you want MORE aoe hate, because thats what your proposing.  A -5k health debuff does not generate the same hate as a 5k nuke.  its a debuff and debuffs have a set amount of hate.</P> <P>my only concearn is if its logged in the parser correctly, if not 5k dmg to all mobs in the encounter if epic is quite significant.  On an 3 mob epic group thats 15k dmg you're missing out on if its not logged by act.  and on a 1 min fight 15k dmg is a significant amount of damage, if you did 100k dmg in 1min thats 1660 dps, if you did 115 thats 1920, nearly 300dps more!</P> <P>not to mention its a 5k nuke against a single target epic!</P>

[Uumuuanu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Uumuuanu wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ibunubi wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>4. ) I just noticed they had altered Curse of Isolation a bit, making it ... well, less useless as before. But certainly a step in the right direction.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok, so call me stupid, but  honestly,  why not just make this a nuke,  isnt that reducing its health?    It should not be a static number, thats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Besides, 4k is one nuke.  It should be a % of the health or something else entirely.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>honestly why would you want MORE aoe hate, because thats what your proposing.  A -5k health debuff does not generate the same hate as a 5k nuke.  its a debuff and debuffs have a set amount of hate.</P> <P>my only concearn is if its logged in the parser correctly, if not 5k dmg to all mobs in the encounter if epic is quite significant.  On an 3 mob epic group thats 15k dmg you're missing out on if its not logged by act.  and on a 1 min fight 15k dmg is a significant amount of damage, if you did 100k dmg in 1min thats 1660 dps, if you did 115 thats 1920, nearly 300dps more!</P> <P>not to mention its a 5k nuke against a single target epic!</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes, ok 5k nuke, ONE time against the mob.  Its not like it drops it another 5k every time you cast it. 

[Malice83]

<div><blockquote><hr>QQFatman wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Malice83 wrote: <div>Not bad for raid mobs, considering the casting time is 2 secs, to bad that the mob will have taken 20k damage from >insert leet scout CA's here< by the time you get it off thus making it do... well.. nothing. If only it would affect mobs who have already lost health.Would be fun if it worked on PvP raids though. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Shazam! "Debuffed!"</div> <hr> </blockquote>I did a test. A mob after debuffed will still have the same percentage of hp (or mana.) For example if a mob has 10000 max hp and 8000 current hp. You debuff its max hp by 5000, then it'll have 4000 / 5000 hp after debuffed. So no matter when you cast it, it'll still work <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by QQFatman on <span class="date_text">11-13-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:41 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>W00t! Maybe I'll put it <strike>back</strike> on my hotbar then! =)</div>

[Kanfo]

It's not truly the full amount unless cast as the opening volley on an the mob, which I doubt will be anywhere near a majority of the time.  The amount of damage scales by the % of health the monster has, and it will gain some of that health back at the termination of the spell.  Look at it like this: You cast the spell, and it lands while the mob is at 50% health.  You reduce the maximum pool by 5000, but since the mob's percentage of health remains the same, you're only dealing 2500 damage.    Now, by the time the mob reaches 25% health, the spell wears off and the maximum health returns to its full amount.  However, since the percentage is retained once again, at 25% health, the mob only regains 1250 health.  So for the cast of the spell on this particular target, you've dealt a total of 1250 damage. This is my understanding.  Am I right? <div></div>