Warlock or Wizard

[zuzer]

Ok, this my first post so hopefully I'll get some good feed back. Before I ask my quesiton I want to give you guys some feedback and what and how I play so you will be able to better answer my question. First off I play 5 different toons right now 53sk, 39 coercer, 35 necro 15 warlock and 7 defiler. I like to play classes that are fairly challengeing i.e. sk and coercer, I solo a bit grp more and want to raid end game content eventually. I wanted to start another toon recently and because I like the mage classes the best was looking at doing a sorcerer of some type because I already had a chanter and a summoner so I wanted to give the summoners a try. I decided to go for the warlock becuase a of a few different things. First they are supposed to be the kings of aoe which I thought was pretty cool and could see how this would make for a challenge. I also decided on a warlock over a wizard because you see wizards everywhere and well, I like to be different. Anyway, I have rolled my warlock and so far I like him alot but of course your view is skewed at lower lvls becuase you don't have all the spells yet and the stuff your doing isn't hard. Well, after I lvled him some what I decided to head over here to the forums and see what everybody else had to say about them and tbh I am appalled! Basically to make this shorter is the warlock worth playing or has SOE done so little with them that it's not worth it? Based on my limited experience as a warlock I can see how they would have so much potential but the threads I read in these forums scare me tbh.....so with all that said lets see some feedback!<div></div>

[Slayer505]

<div></div><div align="left">Don't let the nay sayers get you down.  It takes skill to play a Warlock right... ie doing the best damage you can without dying on every pull.  I just made 70 not too long ago, but I raid 3 times a week so I've already got some good experience.  I also group with a Monk for questing and they can't hold aggro nearly as well as a Pally or Zerker, so it's kind of prepared me to avoid being splattered in raids.  Now that I'm more or less getting the hang of just how much I can do without becoming a stain on the floor, I'm consistantly parsing in the 800-1500 range (Labs and Halls of Seeing being our latest raids).  Our top caster DPS is a Wizard, and he's usually 400-500 points ahead of me on the parse most of the time, but he's fully fabled out and has been raiding for months, while I just started.  I'm pretty consistant at staying near or above our other casters though, including other wizards.  Outside of raiding I always amaze people in groups.  With the rarity of Warlocks most people have never even heard of Rift, much less seen it, so when it goes off I like seeing the reactions in group chat- always satisfying.  I like to solo alot too and as a Warlock it's pretty easy once you get the hang of it.  I soloed constantly levelling up, only grouping with some of my RL friends for questing purposes.  I never once joined a pick-up group as I levelled up, and only got into pure grind groups when invited by guildies (which wasn't all that often)Now, you'll probably see all kinds of people posting about how Warlock's suck... roll a Wizard, Necro or whatever, I say if you like a challenge play a Warlock, if you prefer easy mode roll a Wizard or Necro.  I rather enjoy doing well as a supposedly gimped class.  Not only that but with the changes coming up (mainly our aggro control stuff- concussive and Vullian Nullification) it'll become even easier.  It's not all rosey, don't get me wrong, but it's a challenge and one I enjoy.  Above all have fun and don't let the whiners get you down.</div>

[zuzer]

Thanks for the info....that is what I was kind of thinking - I often find that ppl really just don't know how to play a class so they dump all over it....For example the coercer. I started a coercer and came to the boards and read some info and some ppl were saying how awesome they were and others were saying they couldn't do anything with them....After I played him for a while I realized the problem - coercers are not an easy class and I had to do some research to figure how to use them properly - but once I did figure it out he became an extremely fun and rewarding class to play. So the problem was not with the coercer itself the problem was behind the keyboard....So I was hoping this might also be the case with warlock. I have decided to delete my necro because when I grp they are no fun at all. I mean I know I'm only in the 30's right now but when grped it seems like all I have to do to burn the mob down is send in pet, lifetap a couple times and then repeat on the next mob....that is so boring to me. I am going to hang in with the warlock and at least try to get him to 50 so I have a better feel for all our spells and abilities....and I was really excited to see that concussive might just fix the aggro problem the warlock has, and if it does I can seem them being the top dps class they were before whatever update it was that screwed them up...Anyway, thanks again for the input it's much appreciated <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Sesskia]

<div>Stick with the Warlock tbh...The class has its issues...the main being its aggro-magnetism, however, you don't sound like the type to play for 5 mins and say 'warlocks r teh suxx0r'.Warlock is fun to play...if you learn how to play it effectively. Often that means holding back in a group setting so you dont die.Warlocks can solo fine.  Not as easy as other classes, or maybe as fast, but we can do it in relative safety once you get the hang of it.It isn't an easy class to play...thast why most high lvl sorc have chosen wizard instead, but, it is pretty unique and i'm convinced it can only get better with the changes in beta.</div>

[Ruut Li]

I dont understand. Who are the nay-sayers? I dont see a lot of posts that say "dont play warlock, they cant do anything & suxx0r!". On the other hand I see a lot of posts by dedicated veteran warlocks voicing their concerns about the class. Are they the ones you claim have no skill? <P>Hopefully EoF will help the class become better..or let me rephrase: make the class require less skill to play LOL.</P> <P>I dont need a game to make me feel special. I dont have any irl self-esteem issues. (<--payback :smileytongue: I play the game to have fun and I expect that my 2-year-old char has the same potential to be useful to me, to groups and to raids as other classes (useful: able to do the job the class is intended for).</P> <P>Btw I never feel that doing 800-1500 constantly, without taking aggro, is hard and requires a lot of skill...I aim to make the gap smaller and push it to above 1500 without grabbing aggro. Regularly. Curses! I have opened the door to the certain-encounter-in kos parse, and possibly certain-zone-in-dof parse :smileyvery-happy:</P><p>Message Edited by Ruut Li on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:44 AM</span>

[Melseb]

A well played warlock will NEVER get outparsed in a 3+ raid mob enounter. In a 2 raid mob encounter, assassins, swashbucklers, occasionally brigands, necros, and wizards will come very close to one another. On singles, my warlock can parse up to 1400-1500dps, but will stil get hammered by rogues, summoners, wizards and assassins.Bottom line is that, although warlocks are very difficult to learn to control aggro-wise, they are some of the best dps in the game. We also have some decent utility to offer in EoF.Soloing single mobs is cake with both of our roots, our daze, null caress etc etc. Not as fast as a wizzie but still easy.3 mob 1 up-arrow heroics dont even need to be rooted (netherous realm -> corrupt gift -> catalyst + apocalypse -> Absolution.. if still alive then chaostorm -> nebula)Daenarys70 WarlockMob SquadKithicor<div></div>

[Slayer505]

<div></div>Ruut Li, by nay sayers I was referring to the general negativity that always seems to be present on these boards, that the OP seemed to be referring to.  I didn't say it takes skill to crank out 800-1500 constantly, but that's where I am right now and I've only been raiding for a week or so now so I think that's decent <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Our top caster DPS is a Wizard who happens to be an RL friend of mine as well and the DPS he can crank out is pretty disgusting.  I've seen him up in the 2500-3000 range plenty of times and the only time I've gotten that high is in that one heroic encounter in Lyceum right before Velucidae (you know the one I'm sure <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )  When I get to that point I'll consider myself "skilled."  Until then I'll consider myself decent.  And no, I don't need a game to make me feel "special" either, whatever that means, I just enjoy playing a supposedly gimped class and doing as good as the supposedly uber ones.  Honestly the only reason I levelled up my Warlock was because I got re-activated by the Army and sent to Iraq.  A year and a half later I came back and found my friends had joined a great raiding guild that had way too many tanks (my main is/was a Berserker).  So in order to raid with my friends I levelled up my Warlock since the guild had none (he was lvl 23 when I got back in August).  I'm glad I did now as the Warlock has proven to be alot of fun and a great challenge.  I can't wait to see what we'll be able to do with the EoF changes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[RSZ]

I would not let anyone roll a warlock the way the class is right now.  You guys are delusional. Wizards are way superior and get dev attention.<p>Message Edited by RSZ on <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:07 AM</span>

[Slayer505]

Thanks for proving my point RSZ <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Araxes]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>/ nevermind I'm so tired of this whole argumentPlay what you want to play and if you don't like what you play then CHANGE IT.<div></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Vicontessa on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:35 PM</span>

[EpokSilvermo]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>RSZ wrote:<div></div> <div></div>I would not let anyone roll a warlock the way the class is right now.  You guys are delusional. Wizards are way superior and get dev attention.<p>Message Edited by RSZ on <span class="date_text">11-10-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:07 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Do you can give any concrete arguments you base your opinion on? Do not get me wrong, I am always willing to follow a constructive discussion but I would welcome more than just a plain statement  <span>:smileywink:</span> EDIT: Even links to existing, past or present discussions will do a lot to help the original poster to get constructive feedback...</div><p>Message Edited by butchrulez on <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:08 PM</span>

[RSZ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> butchrulez wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RSZ wrote:<BR> I would not let anyone roll a warlock the way the class is right now.  You guys are delusional. Wizards are way superior and get dev attention. <P>Message Edited by RSZ on <SPAN class=date_text>11-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:07 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Do you can give any concrete arguments you base your opinion on? Do not get me wrong, I am always willing to follow a constructive discussion but I would welcome more than just a plain statement  <SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN> <BR><BR>EDIT: Even links to existing, past or present discussions will do a lot to help the original poster to get constructive feedback...<BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by butchrulez on <SPAN class=date_text>11-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:08 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Pick a spell, any spell, there's your evidence.</P>

[drajev]

<P>Lol, it's been awhile since i was last here and what do i find out to my "surprise"? Just the same bunch of moaning wannabee warlocks that haven't taken the time to really try and learn the class and think wizards own it all...</P> <P>Let me give you some idea of my raid dps from DT tonight to get an idea of what real warlocks are capable of. And i'm talking about consistent parsers not some isolated highs. Single target - between 1.3-1.6K, topped the first named with 1813 dps. 2 epic mobs - 1.8-2.2K. 3+ epic mobs - 2.4K-2.7K. I know the warlock of the top raid guild on the server does pretty similar dps but we're both fully mastered and fabled so this should explain part of it.</P> <P>The truth about warlocks is they DON'T need fixing, they're perfect the way they are, before DoF they were too overpowered, and thats when all the warlocks started leaving/rerolling/betraying to wizards once it became possible. How many wizards consist the mage population? i'd say about 1/2 mage. Warlocks are now even less than chanters only because people like all of you flaming against them don't take the time to learn and play an awesome dps class well but you want to have it all - uber dps, agro with impunity and top the parser every fight. I outdps our wizards in every single raid zone parse, even HoS. And they're very good.</P> <P>Well i can tell you i used to be a wizard and a twist of fortunes got me betray to warlock, ever since then i'm enjoying the game a lot more. Wizards is one of the most boring mage class to play, always the same, hardly any utility... How many mobs in KoS are poison and disease based against cold and heat??? Chel'drak, Tarinax, Cruor Alluvium, Mutagenic Outcast... against a lame Harla Dar or noob Gorenaire.</P> <P>I suggest you try a bit harder to play your class better and understand how other key classes function in a raid before claiming you know how bad warlocks are.</P> <P> </P> <P>Velizar, warlock of Remnant, RE server</P>

[Ruut Li]

<P>Gratz on being able to raid under absolut perfect conditions :smileyhappy: No need to pull out your claws and start hissing at the mortals though lol. </P> <P>Here goes: I disagree with you. I dont think its right that warlocks are so much more dependent on others and a perfect environment. Lack some of it and theres a problem. The class is too dependant and disabled. But maybe not after EoF :smileyhappy:</P> <P> </P> <P>Ya ya I dont know my class , Im a noob, ooOo ya da ya da lol :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[RSZ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> drajev wrote:<BR> <P> </P> <P>The truth about warlocks is they DON'T need fixing, they're perfect the way they are,<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You're a livng excuse why this class is not getting any devs attention and will not get fixed.  Go away.</P> <P>If a Wizard was given the LOVING your guild gives YOU, they'd crank out more dps than you can dream of.   Or, to think the other way, there are ppl in your raid LEFT BEHIND, without BUFFs and with lesser gear, cause YOU are likely to be GL or Officer's PET and get that stuff put on yourself.</P> <P> </P> <P>So now kindly let us disagree with your assessment.</P>