Wow! Hate displacement on Boon is a STAGGERING 2%?!

[Jahpetto]

<DIV>Well whether you have app 4 or adept 3 the new hate displacement is a godly 2% <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.. Thats like going to your boss for a well deserved raise and he throws a roll of pennys at your head!.. SALT in the WOUND <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>                                        /em pees on Boon of the Damned upgrade.............</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tubb 61 Warlock (Venekor PVP server)</DIV>

[Jaroth Cloudwalk]

It is 3% for Master I, as if that makes much of a difference.

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jahpetto wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well whether you have app 4 or adept 3 the new hate displacement is a godly 2% <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.. Thats like going to your boss for a well deserved raise and he throws a roll of pennys at your head!.. SALT in the WOUND <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>                                        /em pees on Boon of the Damned upgrade.............</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tubb 61 Warlock (Venekor PVP server)</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Buy a lower teir Master I and get a 3% hate transfer

[Jahpetto]

<P> I cant go spend 1-2p on a grey spell for 1% more.. I cant fathom what the Devs where thinking with this one.. It really is an insult to the Warlock class, can just see em sitting around a table: </P> <P>** lead dev ** "Ok now to the matter at hand, Warlocks seem to have some sort of issue with aggro when AEing in a group.. some on players board think it would be good to give em a spell that transfers the aggro to the tank.."</P> <P> **new girl way in the back**- "Well we could add 25-35% aggro transfer to one of there tank proc spells."</P> <P> ---room erupts into laughter---</P> <P>** lead dev ** "How about.. say 7%?"</P> <P>** new girl ** "sir thats just mean! I played a Warlock for 8 months and......"</P> <P>** lead dev ** "FINE! .. make it 2-3%! and you.. tart in the back.. yer fired!"</P><p>Message Edited by Jahpetto on <span class=date_text>09-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:18 PM</span>

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jahpetto wrote:<BR> <P> I cant go spend 1-2p on a grey spell for 1% more.. I cant fathom what the Devs where thinking with this one.. It really is an insult to the Warlock class, can just see em sitting around a table: </P> <P>Message Edited by Jahpetto on <SPAN class=date_text>09-06-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:18 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Umm accualy look,  I saw about 10 boon of the shadowed from 10gp-40gp

[Mgunner]

<P>This is a pretty good slap in the face. What's the point. If 1 point of damage = 1 point of threat, then when I'm doing 5,000 damage, I'm really only gaining 4900 hate. LOL, that's lame. 4850 if you have Master I.  Ok, so the MT gains 100 extra hate, yippie</P> <P>How does that help with our agro problems. So far, I haven't seen a difference.</P>

[Araxes]

It's cruel.  End of story.<div></div>

[pharacyde]

<P>3% hate transfer from 1000dps is 30dps being transfered to the tank. So you are actualy doing 970dps and the tank only needs to do 940dps to keep aggro. This means the tank can stay 6% under your dps and still keep aggro. </P> <P>940dps is 6% lower then 1000dps</P> <P>there is 3% transfered from 1000dps, this equals 30dps</P> <P>So we have warlock dps - hate trasnfered == tank dps + hate recieved => 1000dps - 30dps == 940dps + 30dps</P> <P> </P> <P>That's the way I see it, makeing it 35% like some say would allow the tank to stay 70% under the warlocks dps. With all the other hate generation spells and hate transfer spells there is, that woudl mean a tank could just auto attack and never loose aggro. But I can see why people ask for more for grp setups. But for raid setups it would be insane to put it so high. </P> <P> </P> <P>My 2cp. </P>

[CalypsoCGN]

Well...even for raid setups it's way to low...Would be nice, if the ad3 t7 M1 would be 7% / t7 M1 10%!!And they should make Wizzards and Warlock ones stack...<div></div>

[Deathspell]

The 2% does indeed look like a small number, but I see this as a step in the right direction.It's low, but any changes to it will mostlikely be an increase of the percentage.For the sake of balance, I'm sure we all would rather like to see an increase from the 2% rather then a decrease from XX% to 2% and cry we got yet nerfed again.

[Prrasha]

Yeah, the problem is the other existing hate transfer spells... Paladins get 41% from Master1 Amends transferred to them from anyone they want, rogues can dump somewhere 20-30% (not sure where it caps out, my swash is still in his 30s)... assassins can dump hate at least in the 15% range (no idea how much they can get to as I don't have one)... if warlocks could transfer 25-35%, that could be around 125% total... 150% if the warlock and wizard transfers stacked.  Now the paladin doesn't even need to autoattack... he can go AFK and hold aggro if all the transferers keep their aggro generation at a similar level.  Warriors with their proc-a-taunt-when-hit skills could probably do it even with "only" 100% total transfer. The only easy way to fix AE damage versus DD damage is to scale its hate back like heals currently are... 1 point of heal is less than 1 point of taunt or damage.  If 1 point of AE was less than 1 point of DD, they could balance the classes better, since the limit on DPS is aggro, not "how much damage can I spam".  Since the DD classes can hammer on one target of an AE encounter, and hate is the limit on damage, they can be #1 on both a single-target-type parse and an AE parse if the fight is long enough to be aggro-limited.  An AE class can only win in an AE battle, which annoys the raiders, since DD rules the day in the important parts of most raids. The only easy way to fix all the big-damage, no-debuff DPS classes has already been done to rangers... a skill that reduces hate on every attack (Primal Reflexes, etc).  Or possibly a hate-reducing proc like the swashbucklers have (Avoid Attention, etc.)  Unlike hate-transfers, or the illusionist castable-on-others proc detaunt, there is no stacking problem with these skills.  You could give all 12 DPS classes such a skill and not unbalance the game.  Then, the detaunt amounts or hate reduction percentages could be tweaked for each individual class to (a) put them in their appropriate "DPS tiers" versus their other utility, and (b) leave aggro management as a valid part of the game for all classes. Giving out more hate transference skills is just finding a bigger hammer to tighten bolts.  The wrong tool for the job, no matter how nifty it might look. <div></div>

[Wulfborne]

<DIV>Just to make things even more fun, apparently the hate transfer doesn't stack with Paladin Amends, either. You could have your boon on the pally, and he could Amend someone else, but he/she can't Amend you with it on. :smileymad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</DIV>

[jago quicksilver]

    how much did it transfer before? 2% less than it does now, im almost positive,<div></div>

[Deathspell]

I don't see why it should stack with the Paladin's Amends.The Amends should be sufficient when it's put upon you. And You can still put your hate displacement on someone else.It's basically the same way as the avoidance spells from fighters. <div></div>

[Malice83]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pharacyde wrote:<BR> <P>That's the way I see it, makeing it 35% like some say would allow the tank to stay 70% under the warlocks dps. With all the other hate generation spells and hate transfer spells there is, that woudl mean a tank could just auto attack and never loose aggro. But I can see why people ask for more for grp setups. But for raid setups it would be insane to put it so high.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>35% wouldn't be enough for me... The only way it could be were if I also had amends on me (and they stacked). I don't think 35% would be enough even if I had a Troub and my tank had a Dirge though (not counting pally's and the stacking thing.)<BR>

[Triste-Lune]

when our warlock saw that and talk about in guild chat it made me laught hard really hard. then i really felt for him and the whole sorcerer community, it s never fun to be taunt and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]slap especially when the request was a reasonable one.

[CalypsoCGN]

<div></div>35% would be way overpowered in raids!!!10% would be a nice number for raids, but they should really fix that flaw with Amends! There is nothing in the description that says they don't stack, so it's meant to be working with Amends...And there is no reason at all why the Wizzard and Warlock spell shouldn't stack! They are different spells from different classes that happen to have the same side-effect. If SOE cancels out spells just by the effect (what is the fact with our hate x-fer), they have to make all HP buffs not stackable aswell, as they have the same effect on the target...just imagine what would happen on the forums!<div></div><p>Message Edited by CalypsoCGN on <span class=date_text>09-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:20 AM</span>

[MilkToa]

<P>Hate transfer is just the wrong way to try to fix the aggro problem because of all the stacking problems. </P> <P> </P>

[Prrasha]

Not stacking with Amends is not a bug.  Other transfers (Brigand, Swashbuckler, Assassin) do not stack with Amends, and never have stacked with Amends. And those that think they need a hypothetical 35% transfer that does stack with Amends... you do realize that a total transfer of anything over 50% means you are absolutely never going to gain aggro no matter what you do, right?  That's just too silly for words. <div></div>

[Wulfborne]

The issue isn't so much that the hate transfer doesn't stack... it's more that the buff that is the OTHER part of that spell can ALSO not be cast on the paladin effectively, since the hate portions dont stack. One or the other of the spells is going to cancel out.If it were solely a hate transfer, that's one thing. But its not. <span>:smileysad:</span>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul<div></div>

[Kytraan]

Does this stack with the 10% hate reduction from AA that we can get?<div></div>

[Domiuk]

<DIV>Can multiple warlocks , wizards put this on one tank and is it cross raid ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[MugnMo]

It is cross-raid castable, but it will not stack with wizards / other warlocks.

[emagine]

I have to some more testing with the spell, but im not sure if its not stackin with troub deagro.... messing up the equation or what, because I placed the buff on the bezerker, and I was dying left and right every pull was pulling agro..... like my spells gave me 3x as much it was horrible.... I took off the buff and went back to my occational deaths.... anyone else have that problem?<div></div>

[Keitho]

Regen for MT  all this spell is good for  ..thanks SoE<div></div>

[Malice83]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pelarski wrote:<BR><BR>And those that think they need a hypothetical 35% transfer that does stack with Amends... you do realize that a total transfer of anything over 50% means you are absolutely never going to gain aggro no matter what you do, right?  That's just too silly for words.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>1 person in a raid wouldn't be able to pull aggro from the tank, not that insanely overpowering imo. And I'm sure that I could still pull aggro <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm a warlock after all, it's what we do..

[TheSlashman]

<DIV>3% is a total joke.  I have been in raids this week with troubies in my group with master1 decrease hate for casters spell and also using my big whopping 3%.  Guess what?  During mobs of 2 and 3... pull aggro... pull aggro.  I was parsing and almost everytime i was in 3-4 position on the parse when i pulled the aggro.  It is not pulling aggro from the single mob that the tank is targeting, but the one that is part of the encounter.  We need a lot more deaggro then 3%.  The assassins in the group go all out with hate transfer on a healer (20-30%), but we can only use our (3%) on a fighter class.  SOE needs to really look at the hate gain from casters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[matinisback]

3% is alot

[Melseb]

<div><blockquote><hr>coltsfancolts wrote:<div></div>3% is alot<hr></blockquote>No it's not.</div>

[Malice83]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Melseb wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> coltsfancolts wrote:<BR> 3% is alot<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>No it's not.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I sense sarcasm! Then again I am a master of the obvious..