Avoiding aggro.

[metacell]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>It is entirely possible for a Warlock to avoid aggro, even with a medium-skilled tank. But it requires restraint and skill.First of all, there are a few simple techniques to keep hate low:<ol><li>Use and understand your hate-control spells.<i>Concussive</i> gives the next spell a hate-reducing buff. Cast it just before the tank pulls, so you don't waste any in-combat casting time. Then cast an <i>encounter-based</i> debuff, so the hate reduction will affect the <i>entire</i> encounter, not just a single target.The <i>Vulian interference</i> spell line reduces the target's hate instantly, so you'll want to use this a few castings into the fight, after you've built a little hate.</li><li>Debuffs generate negligable amounts of hate compared to damage-dealing spells. By casting all your debuffs before you start making damage, you give the tank more time to build up hate. The debuffs will help both you and your friends to do more damage later in the fight.</li><li>Hate later is better than hate now. If it's very easy to get aggro, use your pets first (<i>Netheros</i>, <i>Dark Infestation</i>), then your DoT's, then your instant damage spells. The hate your pets generate won't transfer to you until the pets die, and the DoT's only generate hate gradually.</li></ol>Most important, you need to get a feel for how much damage you can do without getting aggro. If you tend to get aggro, play it safe and intersperse your damage-dealing spells with more debuffs, use more DoTs, and cast your hate reduction spells as soon as their timers come around. If it works fine and the tank keeps aggro, carefully use stronger spells.And lastly: The Warlock who believes a fight is a contest to get a high DPS ranking, will inevitably get aggro.Using these techniques, I have often used an Inquisitor as a tank without getting aggro.Think it sounds hard being a Warlock? Think of it this way: it's a class that requires a skilled player.<div></div><p>Message Edited by metacell on <span class=date_text>08-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:30 PM</span>

[Milthon]

So if I am a raid leader and your generating 1/2 the dps using your above strat than any summoner,assasin,brigand or swashbuckler and I am sure I am missing a few other classes why would I fill one of the 24 man slots with you?

[Keitho]

why use our pets there dps doesnt help ours <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <div></div>

[Dajuuk]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> metacell wrote:<BR> <OL> <LI>Use and understand your hate-control spells.<BR><I>Concussive</I> gives the next spell a hate-reducing buff. Cast it at the beginning of every fight, just as the tank gets ready to pull. Then, when the tank pulls, cast an <I>encounter-based</I> debuff, so the hate reduction will affect the <I>entire</I> encounter, not just a single target.<BR>Next cast your <I>Vulian </I>spell, to reduce hate further. <DIV> </DIV></LI></OL> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You do realize that you can not achieve negative hate.   By using concussive and vulian in this way you are wasting casting time and getting almost no benefit. </P> <P> </P>

[Victicu]

<div><blockquote><hr>metacell wrote:Using these techniques, I have regularly duo:ed with an Inquisitor and killed coloured Heroic mobs without getting aggro.<hr></blockquote>LOL i think most warlocks are looking for raid advice, not duo advice.  Heck, i can duo heroics with my fury healing me and my wizard tanking, its not too aweful difficult.Most of your advice is pretty ridiculous anyways.  Casting all your de-aggros before you even do any aggro? If your spending your time casting those de-aggros your DPS will suffer greatly.  Right now Sorcs are nearly 100% reliant on raid setup for proper de-aggro.</div>

[metacell]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">Milthon wrote:So if I am a raid leader and your generating 1/2 the dps using your above strat than any summoner,assasin,brigand or swashbuckler and I am sure I am missing a few other classes why would I fill one of the 24 man slots with you?<hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote>If I were a raid leader, I'd want someone who can ask other people for advice, and who doesn't think he knows who's good enough to be in the raid. The player's class would be secondary.Group and raid play requires different strategies. You could do something constructive, like posting your own raid advice here. <blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">Dajuuk wrote:You do realize that you can not achieve negative hate.   By using concussive and vulian in this way you are wasting casting time and getting almost no benefit. <hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote>You're probably right about <i>Vulian</i>. Assuming we have a tank with taunt, a better sequence would be <i>Concussive - (decrease max health/power) - (decrease noxious mitigation) - (encounter DoT) - Vulian Interference</i>.But you do realise <i>Concussive</i> lowers the hate on the <i>next </i>spell you cast, and that it doesn't waste any casting time, since you cast it <i>before </i>combat starts?<blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">Victicus7 wrote:LOL i think most warlocks are looking for raid advice, not duo advice.  Heck, i can duo heroics with my fury healing me and my wizard tanking, its not too aweful difficult.<hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote>You should try doing it the other way around some time. It's very difficult, but it's also very good training. Using the priest as a tank (and choosing as difficult heroics as you can manage) forces you to balance on the edge of getting aggro, and improves your gut feeling for how much you can blast without going over it.I'm a little disappointed that so many people criticize without contributing anything themselves. So far, only Dajuuk has had anything useful to say.But thanks for the funny comment, Keithoth. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by metacell on <span class=date_text>08-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:20 PM</span>

[Keitho]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>metacell wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">Milthon wrote:So if I am a raid leader and your generating 1/2 the dps using your above strat than any summoner,assasin,brigand or swashbuckler and I am sure I am missing a few other classes why would I fill one of the 24 man slots with you?<hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote>If I were a raid leader, I'd want someone who can ask other people for advice, and who doesn't think he knows who's good enough to be in the raid. The player's class would be secondary.Group and raid play requires different strategies. You could do something constructive, like posting your own raid advice here. <blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">Dajuuk wrote:You do realize that you can not achieve negative hate.   By using concussive and vulian in this way you are wasting casting time and getting almost no benefit. <hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote>You're probably right about <i>Vulian</i>. Assuming we have a tank with taunt, a better sequence would be <i>Concussive - (decrease max health/power) - (decrease noxious mitigation) - (encounter DoT) - Vulian Interference</i>.But you do realise <i>Concussive</i> lowers the hate on the <i>next </i>spell you cast, and that it doesn't waste any casting time, since you cast it <i>before </i>combat starts?<blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">Victicus7 wrote:LOL i think most warlocks are looking for raid advice, not duo advice.  Heck, i can duo heroics with my fury healing me and my wizard tanking, its not too aweful difficult.<hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote>You should try doing it the other way around some time. It's very difficult, but it's also very good training. Using the priest as a tank (and choosing as difficult heroics as you can manage) forces you to balance on the edge of getting aggro, and improves your gut feeling for how much you can blast without going over it.I'm a little disappointed that so many people criticize without contributing anything themselves. So far, only Dajuuk has had anything useful to say.But thanks for the funny comment, Keithoth. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by metacell on <span class="date_text">08-21-2006</span> <span class="time_text">05:20 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>serious though ....our pets are worthless...they dont count as dps for us ...</div><p>Message Edited by Keithoth on <span class=date_text>08-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:39 PM</span>

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Victicus7 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> metacell wrote:<BR>Using these techniques, I have regularly duo:ed with an Inquisitor and killed coloured Heroic mobs without getting aggro.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL i think most warlocks are looking for raid advice, not duo advice.  Heck, i can duo heroics with my fury healing me and my wizard tanking, its not too aweful difficult.<BR><BR>Most of your advice is pretty ridiculous anyways.  Casting all your de-aggros before you even do any aggro? If your spending your time casting those de-aggros your DPS will suffer greatly.  Right now Sorcs are nearly 100% reliant on raid setup for proper de-aggro.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>LOL your Dumb.</P> <P>Deagro spells are the way to not die in raids. Group setup is more importent for max DPS but its like that for alot of classes. Using all 3 deagro spells on raids allow a warlock to cast there AE spells with little fear of Agro. But since you were one of the warlocks out there that couldn't do any resonable DPS, any advice you give on a warlock probably would be detremental.</P> <P>And FYI no wizzie can beet me on a long single target fight, only time I lose to one is a short fight with 3 mobs, or a short single target fight.</P>

[Victicu]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Mastire wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Victicus7 wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> metacell wrote:Using these techniques, I have regularly duo:ed with an Inquisitor and killed coloured Heroic mobs without getting aggro. <hr> </blockquote>LOL i think most warlocks are looking for raid advice, not duo advice.  Heck, i can duo heroics with my fury healing me and my wizard tanking, its not too aweful difficult.Most of your advice is pretty ridiculous anyways.  Casting all your de-aggros before you even do any aggro? If your spending your time casting those de-aggros your DPS will suffer greatly.  Right now Sorcs are nearly 100% reliant on raid setup for proper de-aggro.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>LOL your Dumb.</p> <p>Deagro spells are the way to not die in raids. Group setup is more importent for max DPS but its like that for alot of classes. Using all 3 deagro spells on raids allow a warlock to cast there AE spells with little fear of Agro. But since you were one of the warlocks out there that couldn't do any resonable DPS, any advice you give on a warlock probably would be detremental.</p> <p>And FYI no wizzie can beet me on a long single target fight, only time I lose to one is a short fight with 3 mobs, or a short single target fight.</p><hr></blockquote>With the right group set up there is no need at all to ever use a deaggro.  Sorc deaggros are not worth casting at all.  You do realize that concussive severly lowers your DPS, and vulian nullification and null caress do hardly nothing as far as deaggro goes.  One vulian interferrence wont even deaggro you from casting one soul blister, thats how sad it is.So go ahead call me dumb.  Who are you and what guild do you raid with btw?  Care to show me your uber parses that will make me look utterly stupid?  No, you wont show me any parses cause your just pulling crap out of the air, while i give you the facts straight forward.</div><p>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <span class=date_text>08-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:05 PM</span>

[Araxes]

Just as a side-note ...ACT adds the pet into the caster's parse (swarm and dumbfire pets only -- necro and conjuror pets must be named after the caster or they are parsed as separate combatants). Tthe pet will say 0.00 in the text export -- but that's becuase for instance the Broodlings are actually attributed as a spell "dark broodling acid spray" and that is attributed to YOU.  Netherlord is attributed in the same way.You can verify this by looking at the pie chart and hit stats for the outgoing non-melee damage when you review the encounter.The point is - pets add to overall DPS and are very worthwhile to keep spawned unless you know an AE is going to wipe them every 5 seconds.<div></div>

[drajev]

<P>Victicus is absolutely right about using deagro spells in-fight. Not only concussive costs around 200 mana that i can put into lets say dark infestation which i'm sure will get the best dot spell of our arsenal without giving any agro once the broodlings pop, but its casting timer and recovery reduces your dps and only insignificantly deagroes you. I don't even bother casting any deagro spells during fight as i prefer to try and run to tank once i see some mob running in my direction, i know from personal experience i have a better chance to survive and still continue nuking from close distance once safe. </P> <P>Vicontessa has it right as well - if you name your pet as your char, just like conjurers or necros do in order to get a consolidated dps parse from their own and pet's damage, both netherlord and the broodlings count as your damage and thats how you manage to do better dps. Tbh Netherlord is only worth using against a solo non aoe mob like Pain or Suffering since i prefer using my nil crystal for a corrupt gift rather than some noob nightblood who's gonna get wiped in 10 secs after i send him.  </P>

[Deathspell]

This may work in a duo group, but in a 6-piece the mob will be long dead by the time you get to casting damage spells...<div></div>

[metacell]

<div><blockquote><hr>Victicus7 wrote:<div>With the right group set up there is no need at all to ever use a deaggro. <hr size="2" width="100%"></div></blockquote>And what if you're not in a raid?You seem to think that everyone is raiding all the time. There are a lot of people who play EQ2 to do quests and explore, or to duo with their girl/boyfriend.In an average fight (2 to 5 players against singles or heroics at comparable level), deaggro spells come in very handy. Casting Vulian during fights every time the timer resets, costs almost no time or mana.<blockquote><div><hr size="2" width="100%">Victicus7 wrote:Sorc deaggros are not worth casting at all.  You do realize that concussive severly lowers your DPS [...]<hr size="2" width="100%"></div></blockquote>Concussive is designed to be cast before the fight begins, so it doesn't affect DPS. In an average-length fight (20 seconds), you only need to cast it once. Concussive isn't designed for raids.<div>Starting with Concussive, casting two or three debuffs followed by a Vulian and a DoT allows the tank to get a firm grip on the mob. When the mob reaches 50% health, it's usually so weakened, it can be finished off in a few seconds.If you don't understand what I'm talking about after this, I give up...</div></div>

[Dajuuk]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keithoth wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> Dajuuk wrote:<BR>You do realize that you can not achieve negative hate.   By using concussive and vulian in this way you are wasting casting time and getting almost no benefit. <BR> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> </BLOCKQUOTE>You're probably right about <I>Vulian</I>. Assuming we have a tank with taunt, a better sequence would be <I>Concussive - (decrease max health/power) - (decrease noxious mitigation) - (encounter DoT) - Vulian Interference</I>.<BR>But you do realise <I>Concussive</I> lowers the hate on the <I>next </I>spell you cast, and that it doesn't waste any casting time, since you cast it <I>before </I>combat starts?<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Its not just Vulian thats being wasted.   Our encounter debuffs generate next to no hate as it is.   So, your not getting the full benefit of concussive either.   </P> <P>If you want to ease into a low hate scenario you would be better off starting off loading up the debuffs, then casting our spell proc buffs, and then concussive/absolution.   Another nuke and then Vulian, followed by your nuke rotation.   In a group scenario that strategy should prevent you from pulling agro from just about any tank as even though your generating quite a bit of hate on the back end, things should be dead before you get agro.   </P> <P>However, as others have pointed with use of that strategy your sacrificing damage for the sake of low agro.   For the most part, what can be achieved by concussive or vulian can also be achieved by doing nothing for a few seconds and letting agro cool, down before starting back upl again.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Victicu]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>metacell wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Victicus7 wrote:<div>With the right group set up there is no need at all to ever use a deaggro. <hr size="2" width="100%"></div></blockquote>And what if you're not in a raid?You seem to think that everyone is raiding all the time. There are a lot of people who play EQ2 to do quests and explore, or to duo with their girl/boyfriend.In an average fight (2 to 5 players against singles or heroics at comparable level), deaggro spells come in very handy. Casting Vulian during fights every time the timer resets, costs almost no time or mana.<blockquote><div><hr size="2" width="100%">Victicus7 wrote:Sorc deaggros are not worth casting at all.  You do realize that concussive severly lowers your DPS [...]<hr size="2" width="100%"></div></blockquote>Concussive is designed to be cast before the fight begins, so it doesn't affect DPS. In an average-length fight (20 seconds), you only need to cast it once. Concussive isn't designed for raids.<div>Starting with Concussive, casting two or three debuffs followed by a Vulian and a DoT allows the tank to get a firm grip on the mob. When the mob reaches 50% health, it's usually so weakened, it can be finished off in a few seconds.If you don't understand what I'm talking about after this, I give up...</div></div><hr></blockquote>Usually people discussing aggro problems are talking about during raids.  I'm sorry that you have trouble pulling aggro when duoing with a priest.

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Victicus7 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mastire wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Victicus7 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> metacell wrote:<BR>Using these techniques, I have regularly duo:ed with an Inquisitor and killed coloured Heroic mobs without getting aggro.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL i think most warlocks are looking for raid advice, not duo advice.  Heck, i can duo heroics with my fury healing me and my wizard tanking, its not too aweful difficult.<BR><BR>Most of your advice is pretty ridiculous anyways.  Casting all your de-aggros before you even do any aggro? If your spending your time casting those de-aggros your DPS will suffer greatly.  Right now Sorcs are nearly 100% reliant on raid setup for proper de-aggro.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>LOL your Dumb.</P> <P>Deagro spells are the way to not die in raids. Group setup is more importent for max DPS but its like that for alot of classes. Using all 3 deagro spells on raids allow a warlock to cast there AE spells with little fear of Agro. But since you were one of the warlocks out there that couldn't do any resonable DPS, any advice you give on a warlock probably would be detremental.</P> <P>And FYI no wizzie can beet me on a long single target fight, only time I lose to one is a short fight with 3 mobs, or a short single target fight.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>With the right group set up there is no need at all to ever use a deaggro.  Sorc deaggros are not worth casting at all.  You do realize that concussive severly lowers your DPS, and vulian nullification and null caress do hardly nothing as far as deaggro goes.  One vulian interferrence wont even deaggro you from casting one soul blister, thats how sad it is.<BR><BR>So go ahead call me dumb.  Who are you and what guild do you raid with btw?  Care to show me your uber parses that will make me look utterly stupid?  No, you wont show me any parses cause your just pulling crap out of the air, while i give you the facts straight forward.<BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <SPAN class=date_text>08-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:05 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm elria, from genesis on Crushbone.. What parce do u want to see? And how detailed do u want me to get?<BR></P> <P>and side note on single targets I rarly use deagro spells, I use vulian since it uses little mana and has a fast cast rate. Multiple targets the debuffs are needed.</P> <P>And for my parces, I rarly win the parce, Assasins and Rangers win most times normaly I'm 3rd. The wizzie is below me, so is the necro and conj. I'm just saying our DPS isn't uder crap and that if played properly we can crack the top 3 most fights.</P><p>Message Edited by Mastire on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:00 PM</span>

[emagine]

Children stay in the corner.... let the big boy post...... You titled this Avoiding Aggro...... plain and simple, for a warlock to avoid agro,  DO NOT CAST <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Reguardless of what hate you put on me, and what spells I trigger, I will pull mobs from the group encounters.<div></div>

[Victicu]

<div><blockquote><hr>Mastire wrote:<p>And for my parces, I rarly win the parce, Assasins and Rangers win most times normaly I'm 3rd. The wizzie is below me, so is the necro and conj. I'm just saying our DPS isn't uder crap and that if played properly we can crack the top 3 most fights.</p><p>Message Edited by Mastire on <span class="date_text">08-22-2006</span> <span class="time_text">01:00 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Sure you can crack the top 3 when your conj necro swash and wizard are either afk or suck.</div>

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Victicus7 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mastire wrote: <P>And for my parces, I rarly win the parce, Assasins and Rangers win most times normaly I'm 3rd. The wizzie is below me, so is the necro and conj. I'm just saying our DPS isn't uder crap and that if played properly we can crack the top 3 most fights.</P> <P>Message Edited by Mastire on <SPAN class=date_text>08-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:00 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sure you can crack the top 3 when your conj necro swash and wizard are either afk or suck.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>OK so what DPS should a warlock do on single target? 1.5k DPS?? I think its possible but agro would kill ya. I average 1-1.3K DPS. I have most masters execpt for Apoc, thwart, and chaostorm. </P> <P>You seem to think 600-700DPS is warlock average and that is wrong unless your a crappy warlock. And taht is what I beleive after realding 70 posts from you on how a warlock is broken. </P>

[Victicu]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Mastire wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Victicus7 wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> Mastire wrote: <p>And for my parces, I rarly win the parce, Assasins and Rangers win most times normaly I'm 3rd. The wizzie is below me, so is the necro and conj. I'm just saying our DPS isn't uder crap and that if played properly we can crack the top 3 most fights.</p> <p>Message Edited by Mastire on <span class="date_text">08-22-2006</span> <span class="time_text">01:00 PM</span></p> <hr> </blockquote>Sure you can crack the top 3 when your conj necro swash and wizard are either afk or suck.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>OK so what DPS should a warlock do on single target? 1.5k DPS?? I think its possible but agro would kill ya. I average 1-1.3K DPS. I have most masters execpt for Apoc, thwart, and chaostorm. </p> <p>You seem to think 600-700DPS is warlock average and that is wrong unless your a crappy warlock. And taht is what I beleive after realding 70 posts from you on how a warlock is broken. </p><hr></blockquote>900-1.3k is about right ... the 1.3k on shorter fights... and yes 1.3k is low dps on those short fights</div><p>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:50 PM</span>

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Victicus7 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mastire wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Victicus7 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mastire wrote: <P>And for my parces, I rarly win the parce, Assasins and Rangers win most times normaly I'm 3rd. The wizzie is below me, so is the necro and conj. I'm just saying our DPS isn't uder crap and that if played properly we can crack the top 3 most fights.</P> <P>Message Edited by Mastire on <SPAN class=date_text>08-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:00 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sure you can crack the top 3 when your conj necro swash and wizard are either afk or suck.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>OK so what DPS should a warlock do on single target? 1.5k DPS?? I think its possible but agro would kill ya. I average 1-1.3K DPS. I have most masters execpt for Apoc, thwart, and chaostorm. </P> <P>You seem to think 600-700DPS is warlock average and that is wrong unless your a crappy warlock. And taht is what I beleive after realding 70 posts from you on how a warlock is broken. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>900-1.3k is about right ... the 1.3k on shorter fights... and yes 1.3k is low dps on those short fights<BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <SPAN class=date_text>08-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:50 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>see I'm saying 1.3k for a 4-5 min fight. Not a 30 sec fight. What do you think classes should average on DPS? I would asay 1.1-1.5k for Rangers / Assasins. 1-1.3k Warlocks, 1-1.2k Necro's Conjs, 900-1.2k Wizzie. </P> <P> </P>

[Victicu]

want to post your parses of you doing 1.3k for 4-5 mins? cause i dont believe you for a minute.<div></div>

[Mastire]

<P>ok Raiding next on thursday,will get some parces from that.</P> <P>Here is a complete parce from lycium, sorry no 4 min fight, to use.</P> <P>Allies: (01:03:56) 42468458 | 11,071.03 [Assasin-Decapitate-21672]<BR>Assasin 10% | 1,217.06<BR>Ranger 10% | 1,171.22 <BR>Elria 9% | 1,104.84<BR>Wizzard 8% | 986.12<BR>Conj 7% | 874.38<BR>Necro 7% | 834.44<BR>2 Boxed Assasin 5% | 659.96<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Mastire on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:37 PM</span>

[Victicu]

Lyceum is the easiest zone to parse high in... and thats the best your summoners and wizard could do?  Your dps is about right on for that zone.  But your wizard couldnt even get off a >21k fusion in over an hour of fighting?  Let me see if i can find our last lyceum run in my logs.<div></div>

[Mastire]

You never answered my question about what you beleive peopel should parce on average.

[drajev]

<P>Thats pretty low numbers on the parse, esp for a zone like lyceum. Assassin should do at least 1.5K dps in average. Only the auto-attack of a good-geared assassin is 500-600 dps. Wizard being outdpsed by a warlock by almost 150 dps? Any problem that you see there Victicus? Those summoners seem pretty slack to me if they do in the 800-900 range, unless they don't have the dps of their pet included but then they'd look so uber we can easily double their dps with the pet. Besides a summoner without the pet seems unlikely to get over 600-700 dps. Overall ranger has pretty decent dps but rangers are so badly gimped atm it's not even worth starting there.</P> <P>I'd be quite interested to see some parses from single mobs, say gazers in DT, or for ex. Yitzik or Fitzpitzle. For us it's roughly like this on these mobs:</P> <P>- Assassin - 1.6-1.8K dps, Wizard - 1.4-1.6K, brigand, conjurers,swashy and me(warlock) - around 1.2-1.4K, ranger - 1-1.2K etc etc for average raid dps around 17-19K. These are rough numbers from memory, will check for logs when i get home:smileyhappy:</P><p>Message Edited by drajev on <span class=date_text>08-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:46 AM</span>

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> drajev wrote:<BR> <P>Thats pretty low numbers on the parse, esp for a zone like lyceum. Assassin should do at least 1.5K dps in average. Only the auto-attack of a good-geared assassin is 500-600 dps. Wizard being outdpsed by a warlock by almost 150 dps? Any problem that you see there Victicus? Those summoners seem pretty slack to me if they do in the 800-900 range, unless they don't have the dps of their pet included but then they'd look so uber we can easily double their dps with the pet. Besides a summoner without the pet seems unlikely to get over 600-700 dps. Overall ranger has pretty decent dps but rangers are so badly gimped atm it's not even worth starting there.</P> <P>I'd be quite interested to see some parses from single mobs, say gazers in DT, or for ex. Yitzik or Fitzpitzle. For us it's roughly like this on these mobs:</P> <P>- Assassin - 1.6-1.8K dps, Wizard - 1.4-1.6K, brigand, conjurers,swashy and me(warlock) - around 1.2-1.4K, ranger - 1-1.2K etc etc for average raid dps around 17-19K. These are rough numbers from memory, will check for logs when i get home:smileyhappy:</P> <P>Message Edited by drajev on <SPAN class=date_text>08-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:46 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>My point is DPS is all average, Assasin is realy the only class that stands out. Everone else is mixed in. An Parce an entire Raid. #'s are always lower then what you figure due to slackage/deaths/AFK's.</P> <P>And say show me one or 2 fights, is biased. Certain mobs are better for certain classes.</P> <P>Show me an full raid parce<wipes> deaths, AFKS, mobs resistent to spells, and #'s become lower. So please do that and show me your high and mighty #'s. They become more resonable, and show that DPS is even for the DPS class's</P><p>Message Edited by Mastire on <span class=date_text>08-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:49 AM</span>