LU27 Warlock hate transfer

[Mesphito]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P><STRONG>Warlock changes:<BR></STRONG>- Boon of the Dark: Can be cast on a raid member. If they are a fighter, this transfers a  small amount of the warlock's hate toward the fighter</P> <P></P> <HR>  About time!<p>Message Edited by Mesphito on <span class=date_text>08-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:22 PM</span>

[shadowflag]

<DIV>Ya it's nice to get a hate xfer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I went on the test server and linked the master version spell which read that it xfers 3% of hate to the person if they are a fighter (mana proc is still part of the spell).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I keep wondering if 3% is a bit low or will end up being a huge plus. I also wonder about the spell stacking or if a Master I will nullify the Adept3's. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit:  Soulbringer brought to my attention that I was talking about the low lvl Boon.  I did indeed paste the Tier 7 version Boon of the Damned (Master I) on test and it stated 3%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My apologies for the confusion and thank you Soulbringer from bringing this up.</DIV><p>Message Edited by shadowflag on <span class=date_text>08-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:45 PM</span>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> shadowflag wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ya it's nice to get a hate xfer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I went on the test server and linked the master version spell which read that it xfers 3% of hate to the person if they are a fighter (mana proc is still part of the spell).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I keep wondering if 3% is a bit low or will end up being a huge plus. I also wonder about the spell stacking or if a Master I will nullify the Adept3's. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I just wonder why put something like 3% in game?  I hope a dev was really tired when entering in those values, and meant to put 30%

[Swedemon]

<DIV>A great change but one concern is this....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Boon of the Dark (or the later version Boon of the Damned) procs a power drain over time from the opponent to the tank.  Say there is a mob that needs to be mezzed in the encounter and early in battle before this mob is mezzed it damages your tank and Boon of the Damned procs.  Now your chanter mezzes the mob and within a second the mezz breaks due to the power drain potentially wiping the raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So as it is now, this is a bit more situational a buff than the Wizards version which looks to be a direct power boost component to the tank.  The raid should ask the warlock to drop his hate transfer proc when mobs are being mezzed whereas the wizard will not have to drop their proc.  Hmm... we may want to bring this up to the devs.</DIV>

[Milthon]

<P>3% is insignificant.</P> <P>Lets say for simplicity that your doing 1k dps.  You will get the hate for 970 and the tank will get the other 30.</P> <P>The fact we can give mana to the MT via a ds outside of group is much more significant.</P> <P>If multiple versions stack on the MT it could be a huge power boost for the MT but I can't see this being the difference between me drawing agro and not.</P>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Milthon wrote:<BR> <P>3% is insignificant.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I have to agree. I dont see how a 3% hate feed is really going to help things when Im hitting 4-5 mobs with 3k worth of damage a piece. If 1 pt of dmg = 1 pt of hate, then the tank gains 450 pts of the 15000 pts of hate I just created. How is this going to keep the mob from deciding to make me into warlock bits? </P> <P>I agree that its better than nothing, its a definite start but I think they need to tweak the numbers a bit..</P>

[Victicu]

Despite it being only 3% it shows that the devs really do listen, and its a good step in the right direction.<div></div>

[Xede]

<P>I'm glad they have actually seen our thread(even if they dont comment) but 3% is pathetic attempt....Maybe about 10-20% would be suffice. but will still be in conflict with wizards. but i guess even a MA would be good enough for the hate transfer for other encounters when they need to get aggro....but even at that should be more than 3%....I will give SOE this in reguards to attempting to do something for the sorceror community.</P>

[Keitho]

<div></div><div></div>Remeber Boon of Dark is a lv 618 spell .....it might add what  like 10% or so at master T7  lvl..Glad  I got it but.   Think of this way....you lose 3% agro and the tank is gaining 3% ago......Thats kinda nice to have... Im really enjoyed to see this and enjoyed the Devs have been listening to us.  Hopefully this will do some good to save this class.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Keithoth on <span class="date_text">08-18-2006</span> <span class="time_text">06:34 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Keithoth on <span class=date_text>08-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:36 PM</span>

[Tyrion]

<DIV>I just bought Boon of the Damned Master 1 for my 70 Warlock alt, so we'll see. A transfer is a transfer, and as a few people have said already, it's great to see the devs are acknowledging that Sorcerors have aggro problems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only suggestion is that at Master 1, please make this spell 5% instead of 3%. Hardly game-breaking, and just a bit more solid for hate generation. :smileywink:</DIV>

[Crono1321]

Remember that if you had 5 sorcerors on a raid, you'd have 15% hate transfer goign to the tank, I'm sure that's why it is so minimal. <div></div>

[Victicu]

<div><blockquote><hr>Crono1321 wrote:Remember that if you had 5 sorcerors on a raid, you'd have 15% hate transfer goign to the tank, I'm sure that's why it is so minimal. <div></div><hr></blockquote>what kind of silly guild has 5 sorcs on a raid =panyways they could just make it not stack.  it doesnt HAVE to go on the mt... could easily put it on another fighter in the raid, well a non-brawler at least</div>

[Keitho]

Wish i Could pu [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on an assasin i dont like or a conj <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Crono1321]

I wonder if they're going to make the spell lines (accord sorceror spell) stack with each other.  Right now if a warlock has his Boon on a target, and a wizard puts his manatap on the same target, the previous spell is removed.  If this is going to remain the same then I do believe that the hate gain should be raised to 5-10%. <div></div>

[Malice83]

<DIV>I'm glad to see something finally but am I the only onw who feels that it is a kick in the teeth at the same time? Still, hopefully this was just an early adjustment and in the coming LU's (GU's?) it will be increased. *crosses fingers*</DIV>

[Xede]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crono1321 wrote:<BR>I wonder if they're going to make the spell lines (accord sorceror spell) stack with each other.  Right now if a warlock has his Boon on a target, and a wizard puts his manatap on the same target, the previous spell is removed.  If this is going to remain the same then I do believe that the hate gain should be raised to 5-10%.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>more than likely it will not stack. Those two spell lines dont stack as it is.

[iceriven2]

think someone replied in the wizzie thread about this and said ...wizzie and warlock one stack but a warlock and warlock does not...same for wizzie

[emagine]

<div></div>Well I think they did this when they became aware that any top end wiz, or warlock was pulling agro no matter who was tanking and what setup you may run with, if you knew that perfect spell routine and your dps is top notch you are pulling..... Now why its only 3% is Im sure that they realised now what is to much and what is to little without having to change a whole AA line around.... its alot easier to put a hate transfere on one spell then it is to reduce the hate for all our spell lines.... (Im sure they think they would mess up there so called balance) but they chose the easy way out.... If they put, say 10% hate transfere for us then there INT AA line fails, no one would want to chose it, (I really hope you warlocks didnt chose that line anyways) and then youll get a bunch of people complaining with this new spell our int aa line sucks we get 4 instead of 5 aa lines that have use fix that.... its a whole on going circle... anyways best of luck<div></div><p>Message Edited by emagine on <span class=date_text>08-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:19 AM</span>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> iceriven2 wrote:<BR>think someone replied in the wizzie thread about this and said ...wizzie and warlock one stack but a warlock and warlock does not...same for wizzie<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>right now on live, they overwite each other.  I dont think they're going to change that before it hits live, so in reality only one sorcer can put it on the MT, with any others being [Removed for Content]'ed if you only have 2 tanks.

[Crono1321]

<blockquote><hr>Patrix513 wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Crono1321 wrote:I wonder if they're going to make the spell lines (accord sorceror spell) stack with each other.  <b>Right now if a warlock has his Boon on a target, and a wizard puts his manatap on the same target, the previous spell is removed</b>.  If this is going to remain the same then I do believe that the hate gain should be raised to 5-10%. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>more than likely it will not stack. Those two spell lines dont stack as it is.<hr></blockquote>Thank you for reiterating what I said in my post.<div></div>

[Keitho]

Do think the Come Fay Dark that we are getting a complete class specific AA line..it might include upgrades to Boon Agro dump  ya never know and if the devs didnt tihnk of this ....heres the idea <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Malice83]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keithoth wrote:<BR>Do think the Come Fay Dark that we are getting a complete class specific AA line..it might include upgrades to Boon Agro dump  ya never know and if the devs didnt tihnk of this ....heres the idea <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Didn't think about that.. Man do I hope you are right!<BR>

[pharacyde]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> emagine wrote:<BR> Well I think they did this when they became aware that any top end wiz, or warlock was pulling agro no matter who was tanking and what setup you may run with, if you knew that perfect spell routine and your dps is top notch you are pulling..... Now why its only 3% is Im sure that they realised now what is to much and what is to little without having to change a whole AA line around.... its alot easier to put a hate transfere on one spell then it is to reduce the hate for all our spell lines.... (Im sure they think they would mess up there so called balance) but they chose the easy way out.... If they put, say 10% hate transfere for us then there INT AA line fails, no one would want to chose it, (I really hope you warlocks didnt chose that line anyways) and then youll get a bunch of people complaining with this new spell our int aa line sucks we get 4 instead of 5 aa lines that have use fix that.... its a whole on going circle... anyways best of luck<BR><BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by emagine on <SPAN class=date_text>08-20-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:19 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Very nice view on the spell. Maybe in the future with the new AA's we are getting we could increase the hate transfer. Might be a cool idea. Anyway, 3% across the whole line is a very cheap solution, they could at least put some upgrades in it.

[Malice83]

<DIV>Well, hopefully they will change it so that sorcerors can cast it on the same target and lose aggro, but the tank only gets aggro from the sorceror doing the most damage. That way the tank won't get uberpimp aggro and all the sorcerors can get rid of a little aggro.</DIV>

[metacell]

<div><blockquote><hr>Swedemon wrote:<div></div> <div>A great change but one concern is this....</div> <div> </div> <div>Boon of the Dark (or the later version Boon of the Damned) procs a power drain over time from the opponent to the tank.  Say there is a mob that needs to be mezzed in the encounter and early in battle before this mob is mezzed it damages your tank and Boon of the Damned procs.  Now your chanter mezzes the mob and within a second the mezz breaks due to the power drain potentially wiping the raid.</div> <hr></blockquote>I think they changed this a few Live Updates ago. I think only damage-dealing spells break mezz, and mezzed mobs are protected from AoE.</div>

[Crono1321]

Power drains don't break mez. <div></div>

[Deathspell]

Why not take the Paladin's existing Amends spell and make the reversed version a Warlock spell?I know I would be very happy if I had something like Amends on my Warlock...

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Crono1321 wrote:Power drains don't break mez.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yes they do.

[pharacyde]

Power drains are considered as hostile damage. If you have a poison/desease ward on you. And a warlock drains you, the ward will absorb the drain.

[Windowlicker]

Personally I think the 3% is going to be terrific.  It's 3% we didn't have before.<div></div>

[emagine]

Well anything is better then nothing, but still all mastered out, that 3% I have a feeling were not goin to notice a differance...<div></div>

[Crono1321]

Blah<p>Message Edited by Crono1321 on <span class=date_text>08-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:39 PM</span>

[TheStateFish]

<blockquote><hr>emagine wrote:Well anything is better then nothing, but still all mastered out, that 3% I have a feeling were not goin to notice a differance...<div></div><hr></blockquote>I have yet to notice a difference with the 2% we get from our first aa. what's worse is only 1 sorc gets to put it on the MT, the other 5(insert number on your raid here) sorcerors get to put it on random scouts/tanks in the raid (or other casters to mess with em when bored <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) because it doesnt stack with itself or the wizard spell.So yea, 3% is better than nothing, but it's about 27% less than it should be.

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheStateFish wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> emagine wrote:<BR>Well anything is better then nothing, but still all mastered out, that 3% I have a feeling were not goin to notice a differance...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I have yet to notice a difference with the 2% we get from our first aa. what's worse is only 1 sorc gets to put it on the MT, the other 5(insert number on your raid here) sorcerors get to put it on random scouts/tanks in the raid (or other casters to mess with em when bored <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) because it doesnt stack with itself or the wizard spell.<BR>So yea, 3% is better than nothing, but it's about 27% less than it should be.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>my 3% is going on the raid conjurors tank pet :smileysurprised:

[Deathspell]

It's better then nothing, but 3% seems low yes.But maybe they wanna start out low, see what effect it has in combat, etc...I mean, if they made it 50% at the start and it doesn't seem to fit into their "whole" combatsystem, us people would complain about a huge nerf again...<div></div>

[Mode]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> metacell wrote:<BR> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Swedemon wrote:<BR> <DIV>A great change but one concern is this....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Boon of the Dark (or the later version Boon of the Damned) procs a power drain over time from the opponent to the tank.  Say there is a mob that needs to be mezzed in the encounter and early in battle before this mob is mezzed it damages your tank and Boon of the Damned procs.  Now your chanter mezzes the mob and within a second the mezz breaks due to the power drain potentially wiping the raid.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think they changed this a few Live Updates ago. I think only damage-dealing spells break mezz, and mezzed mobs are protected from AoE.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yup, Not even Chaostorm will hit a mez mob as long as you do not directly target it.

[Arrowheart]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheStateFish wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>I have yet to notice a difference with the 2% we get from our first aa. what's worse is only 1 sorc gets to put it on the MT, the other 5(insert number on your raid here) sorcerors get to put it on random scouts/tanks in the raid (or other casters to mess with em when bored <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) because it doesnt stack with itself or the wizard spell.<BR>So yea, 3% is better than nothing, but it's about 27% less than it should be. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>For the record it only transfers the hate if the spell is on a fighter (while you can place it on other classes the hate transfer will not take effect). Whether or not the hate would transfer to a summoners "fighter" pet I have no clue on however.

[TheStateFish]

<blockquote><hr>Arrowheart wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>TheStateFish wrote:<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE>I have yet to notice a difference with the 2% we get from our first aa. what's worse is only 1 sorc gets to put it on the MT, the other 5(insert number on your raid here) sorcerors get to put it on random scouts/tanks in the raid (or other casters to mess with em when bored <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) because it doesnt stack with itself or the wizard spell.<BR>So yea, 3% is better than nothing, but it's about 27% less than it should be.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>For the record it only transfers the hate if the spell is on a fighter (while you can place it on other classes the hate transfer will not take effect). Whether or not the hate would transfer to a summoners "fighter" pet I have no clue on however.<hr></blockquote>yea i saw that in another thread after i posted here... that restriction makes the spell virtually useless except in xp grind groups, and even there, only useful with a brawler, sk or zerker that can't drop moderate or amends on you for roughly 10-14 times the aggro reduction.better than nothing is still crap.

[emagine]

lol, I think ima stick it on the enchanters, they always tend to feel special when they pull agro, least i can do is brigten someones day lol<div></div>

[KazzySoJaz]

<div><blockquote><hr>Milthon wrote:<div></div> <p>3% is insignificant.</p> <p>Lets say for simplicity that your doing 1k dps.  You will get the hate for 970 and the tank will get the other 30.</p> <p>The fact we can give mana to the MT via a ds outside of group is much more significant.</p> <p>If multiple versions stack on the MT it could be a huge power boost for the MT but I can't see this being the difference between me drawing agro and not.</p><hr></blockquote>Sorry I had to comment on this.  It sounds to me, from what I have read, that it will be 3% on each spell, not 3% of your total dps.  So if you deal 1k dmg on a spell, that will be 30 hate to the fighter that you have the spell on.  So if you add this up each time you guys have a dot go off, 3% seems very significant to me...</div>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Milthon wrote:<BR> <P>3% is insignificant.</P> <P>Lets say for simplicity that your doing 1k dps.  You will get the hate for 970 and the tank will get the other 30.</P> <P>The fact we can give mana to the MT via a ds outside of group is much more significant.</P> <P>If multiple versions stack on the MT it could be a huge power boost for the MT but I can't see this being the difference between me drawing agro and not.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Sorry I had to comment on this.  It sounds to me, from what I have read, that it will be 3% on each spell, not 3% of your total dps.  So if you deal 1k dmg on a spell, that will be 30 hate to the fighter that you have the spell on.  So if you add this up each time you guys have a dot go off, 3% seems very significant to me...<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>as compared to scouts? the problem in your example is 30 agro goes to the tank, and 970 agro goes to the warlock. So the warlock without support classes can AE once every what 20 seconds, maybe? </P> <P>What level is your warlock? Infact how many casters do you play? </P> <P>The other point that I would like to make is that tank in your situation will get about 90 agro before you start having dead warlocks because NO TANK can hold agro when a warlock is AEing. That is the problem and the issue.</P>

[KazzySoJaz]

<div><blockquote><hr><blockquote><hr>Cowdenicus wrote:<div></div> <p>as compared to scouts? the problem in your example is 30 agro goes to the tank, and 970 agro goes to the warlock. So the warlock without support classes can AE once every what 20 seconds, maybe? </p> <p>What level is your warlock? Infact how many casters do you play? </p> <p>The other point that I would like to make is that tank in your situation will get about 90 agro before you start having dead warlocks because <font size="5"><b>NO TANK </b></font>can hold agro when a warlock is AEing. That is the problem and the issue.</p><hr></blockquote></blockquote>I do not have to have a warlock to understand the situation.  It is all about aggro control, which most of you button pushers do not have.  Also check the highlight in the quote, you mean no tank you know can do it, I have seen plenty who can.  You are making a broad generalization from the limited experience you have with crappy tanks.</div>

[TheStateFish]

<blockquote><hr>KazzySoJazzy wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Milthon wrote:<div></div><p>3% is insignificant.</p><p>Lets say for simplicity that your doing 1k dps.  You will get the hate for 970 and the tank will get the other 30.</p><p>The fact we can give mana to the MT via a ds outside of group is much more significant.</p><p>If multiple versions stack on the MT it could be a huge power boost for the MT but I can't see this being the difference between me drawing agro and not.</p><hr></blockquote>Sorry I had to comment on this.  It sounds to me, from what I have read, that it will be 3% on each spell, not 3% of your total dps.  So if you deal 1k dmg on a spell, that will be 30 hate to the fighter that you have the spell on.  So if you add this up each time you guys have a dot go off, 3% seems very significant to me...</div><hr></blockquote>3% from each spell IS 3% of your total dps. It is entirely insignificant when you do say 100k damage in a fight. 100k would be low, or a shorter fight, but the point is for every 100k damage the sorceror does with this new deaggro on the MT that MT has only earned 2-3 extra taunts from that transfer. The MT is already spamming taunts every 8 seconds at least, and the biggest issue is with encounters, where tanks only have a 30 second aoe taunt plus whatever aoe dps they can muster. It isnt enough taunt to hold aggro from a warlock with all app1 spells. This deaggro would benefit warlocks the most, but 3% isn't gonna save a warlocks life under any conditions that they would otherwise have pulled aggro and died.Also in a raid, there won't be enough tanks for all the sorcerors to use the new deaggro, so some will get very little benefit (even less than the ones casting it) from the new spell. (warlock and wizard versions don't stack, and 2 of the same also don't stack, and it only works on fighters)Most scout classes reduce their aggro by 20-40%, and some don't dump it on another player, it just goes poof. summoners split their hate with their pets and can go nuts without ever pulling aggro, and that leaves sorcerors the only big dps with no means to get rid of hate on their own. We need something on par with level 70 scouts at level 70, not level 5 scouts at level 70.Tanks can not hold aggro from warlocks, even with amends there are ways to pull aggro if you want to, but in a general raid setting doing paced dps and letting the tank get set before starting, and even only starting to nuke hard at 50%, the spike dps that sorcerors do will still pull aggro. I don't know how a 70 monk can claim that only crappy tanks can't hold aggro from a warlock when even the most skilled monks can't hold aggro from me when I'm practically afk. Tank's don't have big enough taunts, and don't have enough aoe taunts for the aggro that sorcerors currently put out. 3% more isn't going to change that.Edited for clarity<p>Message Edited by TheStateFish on <span class=date_text>09-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:49 AM</span>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR>as compared to scouts? the problem in your example is 30 agro goes to the tank, and 970 agro goes to the warlock. So the warlock without support classes can AE once every what 20 seconds, maybe? </P> <P>What level is your warlock? Infact how many casters do you play? </P> <P>The other point that I would like to make is that tank in your situation will get about 90 agro before you start having dead warlocks because <FONT size=5><B>NO TANK </B></FONT>can hold agro when a warlock is AEing. That is the problem and the issue.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I do not have to have a warlock to understand the situation.  It is all about aggro control, which most of you button pushers do not have.  Also check the highlight in the quote, you mean no tank you know can do it, I have seen plenty who can.  You are making a broad generalization from the limited experience you have with crappy tanks.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Funny I would say I have grouped with some of the best tanks in the game. Do you not push buttons in this game? </P> <P>So what you are telling me basically, is you have no idea what a warlocks situation is, because you are completely ignorant of the class, but because you play a leather wearing tank, you think you know something about agro management correct? Funny, at one time I owned 8 count it 8 level 70 adventurers. You are probably right though, what do I know. (rolls eyes). I would argue though that you sir are completely uninformed as to the situation regarding warlocks and until you know what the true situation is, you should either ask questions, or look and remain silent.</P> <P>Reading your first post I thought you were merely uninformed about anything that would pertain to sorceror subjects, especially considering your lack of having one. Now though it has become abundantly clear you are merely trolling and ignorant of the situation. Your ignorance though is your choice. Enjoy it.</P> <P>Good day.</P>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheStateFish wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Milthon wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>3% is insignificant.</P><BR> <P>Lets say for simplicity that your doing 1k dps.  You will get the hate for 970 and the tank will get the other 30.</P><BR> <P>The fact we can give mana to the MT via a ds outside of group is much more significant.</P><BR> <P>If multiple versions stack on the MT it could be a huge power boost for the MT but I can't see this being the difference between me drawing agro and not.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Sorry I had to comment on this.  It sounds to me, from what I have read, that it will be 3% on each spell, not 3% of your total dps.  So if you deal 1k dmg on a spell, that will be 30 hate to the fighter that you have the spell on.  So if you add this up each time you guys have a dot go off, 3% seems very significant to me...<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>3% from each spell IS 3% of your total dps. It is entirely insignificant when you do say 100k damage in a fight. 100k would be low, or a shorter fight, but the point is for every 100k damage the sorceror does with this new deaggro on the MT that MT has only earned 2-3 extra taunts from that transfer. The MT is already spamming taunts every 8 seconds at least, and the biggest issue is with encounters where they have a 30 second aoe taunt plus whatever aoe dps they can muster. This deaggro would benefit warlocks the most, but 3% isn't gonna save a warlocks life under any conditions that they would otherwise have pulled aggro.<BR><BR>Also in a raid, there won't be enough tanks for all the sorcerors to use the new deaggro, so some will get very little benefit (even less than the ones casting it) from the new spell. (warlock and wizard versions don't stack, and 2 of the same also don't stack, and it only works on fighters)<BR><BR>Most scout classes reduce their aggro by 20-40%, and some don't dump it on another player, it just goes poof. summoners split their hate with their pets and can go nuts without ever pulling aggro, and that leaves sorcerors the only big dps with no means to get rid of hate on their own. We need something on par with level 70 scouts at level 70, not level 5 scouts at level 70.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thank you for replying to that poster (and I am using the most liberal definiton of that word, more like troll) much better than I could ever.

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Modean wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Modean wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wow calm down we had a zero % hate transfer before and now we will have a 3% transfer... why do all you guys have to bite the hand that feeds you.... This should be considered a good thing, If we had the ability to never get agro no matter how much damage we did then we would be over powered or in the case of most of you newbs underpowered without agro..... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> the challenge is making the top dps parses and not getting agro this is the sign of a great Warlock. Because you have to see in the end it was you that got agro and blaming the current mechanics of the game is just an excuse of sucking at your class as it is currently designed.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Thanks,</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Modean on <SPAN class=date_text>09-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:41 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Amen someone understanding that there is more to a sorc than spamming spells...<BR><BR>Now I have not even mentioned the sorc aa pet, so you guys have that plus the new change, and new AA's coming out, sounds like you guys cant just have the world you need the universe too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <BR><BR>I think the LU 27 change is just a tip of the iceberg thing though as EoF is closer every day, and I have a feeling it will revolutionize eq2 as we know it.  I may have high hopes but I think sony knows they need to do something to keep their niche of the market, and EoF is the expansion that will bring most of us what we have hoped for <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>like..... ?????? sitting around waiting to cast spells?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Lol...  all classes wait to cast spells else there would not be recast timers....Duh....<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>how long do you usually wait from when the MA says go to cast your first spell?

[Mode]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Modean wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Modean wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wow calm down we had a zero % hate transfer before and now we will have a 3% transfer... why do all you guys have to bite the hand that feeds you.... This should be considered a good thing, If we had the ability to never get agro no matter how much damage we did then we would be over powered or in the case of most of you newbs underpowered without agro..... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> the challenge is making the top dps parses and not getting agro this is the sign of a great Warlock. Because you have to see in the end it was you that got agro and blaming the current mechanics of the game is just an excuse of sucking at your class as it is currently designed.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Thanks,</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Modean on <SPAN class=date_text>09-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:41 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Amen someone understanding that there is more to a sorc than spamming spells...<BR><BR>Now I have not even mentioned the sorc aa pet, so you guys have that plus the new change, and new AA's coming out, sounds like you guys cant just have the world you need the universe too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <BR><BR>I think the LU 27 change is just a tip of the iceberg thing though as EoF is closer every day, and I have a feeling it will revolutionize eq2 as we know it.  I may have high hopes but I think sony knows they need to do something to keep their niche of the market, and EoF is the expansion that will bring most of us what we have hoped for <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>like..... ?????? sitting around waiting to cast spells?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Lol...  all classes wait to cast spells else there would not be recast timers....Duh....<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>how long do you usually wait from when the MA says go to cast your first spell?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I start casting the second assist is called. I do use all my debuffs though even the one everyone thinks is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].... I also never let a debuff drop... i manage 1k to 1200 dps on single targets and range into the 1.4 to 1.5k range on multiple mobs... I will say my casting from single target to AE targets does not change much if any thing i cast less of my AE spells on AE encounters. Most warlock see more then one mob and instantly think oh look this is what I got AE spells for...but when your guardian can only cast AE taunt every 30 seconds what would possibly lead you to believe you can do massive damage to the mobs hes not tanking. Focus on the single target DPS and through in AE's consistant with your MT's ability to hold the other targets or time them to land when the first mob is going down.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That all said our real DPS comes from the ability of those in the raid with us. If your raid can kill all the mobs fast enough for you to go all out with AE's then you can get the nice parses. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Modean on <span class=date_text>09-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:45 PM</span>

[CalypsoCGN]

It really depends...if it's a single target encounter I can go all out right from the start without drawing agro.If it is a multi mob encounter I have to wait till all mobs are in camp. As soon as they are all sorces start to cast their spells.<div></div>