The perfect Warlock spell

[Solan Swiftfist]

<DIV>I think the perfect warlock spell that would make everyone happy would be a reverse ammends for us.  Give the Warlocks a spell we could  cast on anyone we want that would transfer 39% (or whatever rank we have it at) of our hate to that person.  This spell would help everyone out on raids because we could cast it on the MT to help them hold aggro.</DIV>

[Keitho]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Solan Swiftfist wrote:<div>I think the perfect warlock spell that would make everyone happy would be a reverse ammends for us.  Give the Warlocks a spell we could  cast on anyone we want that would transfer 39% (or whatever rank we have it at) of our hate to that person.  This spell would help everyone out on raids because we could cast it on the MT to help them hold aggro.</div><hr></blockquote>IAs much as I think it would be Great. I t might be too Powerful to place anywhere in the raid.....Like assasin or swashy..it should be only grp based...thus making it so we have to be placed in a grp with someone tanking or a grp with a healer not getting much agro. Im not discrediting this kind of spell ....JUst  it should be grp only. If it was ever so.</div><p>Message Edited by Keithoth on <span class=date_text>08-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:31 PM</span>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

Although it would be nice, there is already two of that kind in the game - from the assassin and swashbuckler, anymore that stacked would create overpowering situations of hate for one person. What I suggested regarding the familiar in the warlock issues thread is still best imo. Here it is:<div><blockquote><hr>SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:<p>I thought more on it and believe the best would be to have the familiar have a larger hate reduction rather than just 2.5%. Around 35% would be a good value and wizards would benefit as well. This way no spells need to shifted etc to compensate for a better deaggro or passive deaggro/transfer. 99% of sorcs use a 1hander, hence everyone would be getting the hate reduction from the familiar anyway, the rest such as increased crit chance can be removed as I'm sure any right minded sorc would want hate reduction more than anything else. Having it as the first AA point, sorcs can have deaggro even at the lower lvls. No spells need to be changed to a hate transfe/reduction making this the best and easiest option. Also, this way, it would not a be all end all deaggro either, as you would have to protect the pet from dying otherwise all the hate would be attributed to you. Kind of like summoners except our pet does not do anything else.</p><hr></blockquote></div><div></div>

[Victicu]

Honestly i really like the line of deaggros rogues get.  If my memory is correct, swashes get a 20% chance to proc a 1500 deaggro on mellee attacks.  Brigands get 20% to proc 1000 deaggro and lose one hate posistion.Just think if warlocks/wizards could get a passive buff on themselves that gave a 20-25% chance to proc on hostile spell a 2000-2500 deaggro, and loss of a hate poistion.  Even 2000 dehate may be too little, but i think it would be a start in the right direction.<div></div>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

Problem with that is it is still based on random number generators, sort of just like how it is now. Like now, in an AE encounter, if the tank gets a resist on one of the adds, or simply does not get enough hate on just one or two, and when the warlock AEs that one or two go for the warlock... raid mobs own cloth users.With a proc, say if it doesn't proc on one or two of the adds and hence don't decrease hate on them, and they come running for you... it does not do anything in the end and warlocks would end up exactly where they started. <i>Warlocks do not need more randomness in the class</i>.A passive hate reduction is the only way. I don't see any flaw in my suggestion above. Because it is a percentage, you would be reducing the same amount of hate even at the lowest lvls.<div></div>

[Ivane0]

<P>wile this would be nice to have it would make us way overpowered.</P> <P>being abled to unload all the time with no fear of agro ( long as u got the troub). </P> <P>this is way unrealistic, there is no way we would get it. 20% on long cast time spells with 1.5-2k dehate would be like every 3rd or 4th spell.</P> <P>i think a more reasonable request would be a pasive 5-10% hate trasfer buff would be nice</P> <P>-ivann</P>

[TheSlashman]

<P>I personally think that hate should not be a part of this game.  I have scouts in our raids going bonkers without aggro issues, and my lonely lock will draw aggro when im about 3 on the parse.  I still think there needs to be some adjustments on the assassin class.  They can go bonkers, use auto attacks, not have power issues, wear better armor, the ability to use different types of weapons for the occasion.  For example, if it resist piercing they use slash...etc.etc.  We get resist poison, oh well.. we are screwed.  They also get  hate transfer and haste for items.   Mages need to be more of a damage dealer in this game.  SOE needs to make some procs or speciality abilities on items like they do for the scout.  Maybe instead of haste, have an ability that decreases casting time by 20%. </P> <P> Man I am starting to dislike the thinking of this game.</P> <P>I became a mage to deal damage and be fragile, and I am a toon that deals somewhat good damage and is fragile.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by TheSlashman on <span class=date_text>08-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:58 AM</span>

[Malice83]

<DIV>Hate reduction is capped at 40%, so with a troub in your group you will already have this capped, thus any warlock skill that just does a passive hate reduction will be useless. A hate transfer a la amends would be nice but as people said, if it were raidwise it would be overpowered and groupwise it wouldn't matter as a warlock would never be in the mt group anyway (unless he pulled aggro and his group became the mt group, which happens quite often. =P).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only really good aggro control spell warlocks have atm is a greater version of feign death, it gets rid of all your aggro, all dots and debuffs on you (at the cost of your buffs), evacs you and gives you full health and power for the cost of 10% of your gears durability and a little debt. I think it's just called death.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Having played a warlock in raids I have seen some crazy stuff when it comes to hate. I've pulled aggro from a zerker doing more dps than me when he was taunting (m1 taunts) and he had 40% dirge hate increase and I had 40% troub hate decrease.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>             Zerker      -     Warlock</DIV> <DIV>DSP      1100        -     1000           (Yes, I was holding back a lot)</DIV> <DIV>Hate      +40%      -     -40%</DIV> <DIV>Taunts    YES      -      NO</DIV> <DIV>-----------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>Total     1540       -      600</DIV> <DIV>            +taunts</DIV> <DIV>-----------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>Results = Warlock pulls aggro and dies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conclusion, reduce the hate that warlock spells generate because it's way to high. The damage is fine, casting timers are a bit of a pain but I can live with them. Hate is the killer...</DIV><p>Message Edited by Malice83 on <span class=date_text>08-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:41 PM</span>

[BaronVonPitviper]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV>Having played a warlock in raids<STRONG><EM> I have seen some crazy stuff when it comes to hate</EM></STRONG>. I've pulled aggro...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Just yesterday in Lyceaum of Abhorance I got agro on a pull and died early. I revived and ran back to the fight all the way from the entrance. I buffed back up and began to nuke pretty heavily, figuring there is no way I am gonna get agro this far into the fight after dying so early. Well, after a death, you'd think you would be very low on the list. It didn't seem like my hate was ever removed because I died again rather quickly. Buggy hate.

[Malice83]

<DIV>I feel for ya buddy.. :smileysad:</DIV>

[drajev]

<P>The tests at LU27 are definitely a good start. Nevertheless i see no problem at all on the design of our class concerning agro. It's obvious that if you go wild from the start with aoes in a zone like lets say Lyceum or HoS, you get agro fast and papertank that you are, you sprawl. With a DD tank class like a guardian it's ridiculous to think that even buffed with assasin, coercer and dirge hate buffs, like we have normally on MT grp the adds on whom the guardian is not focused other than aoe taunts will come to you when your aoes get them angry. With careful spell selection and troub deagro, you can easily do your 2k+ dps on aoe and 1.3, 1.5K dps DD agro free. It's difficult to be a good warlock and dish out your full dps potential, latter is even impossible. Last week in DT i even managed to pull agro off the first single named at 2%, ended second dps behind the assassin.</P> <P>If you wanna be agro safe and do good dps, play a necro or a conjurer, though in aoe fights, bye bye pet and dps suffers a blow. Warlocks are fun because they need to be gouverned by skilled players, they do rely on other classes to do great dps, like troub or pally for amends, you need dmg proc items and master 1 spells, but once those conditions are united, warlocks stand out as a great dps class, we have some utility like pillaging, boon of the damned, mana transfer, poison/dis buffs and i'm sure we'll get boosted when some major update comes, fingers crossed for expansion. As we're a quite rare class now, masters have become quite cheap, got apocalypse for 20pp for exqmple which compared to the uber rare Ice  Nova (ty Fitzpitzle for a guild wizzy) is at least 3 times cheaper. AA selection is quite delicate too, atm im playing with 4 - 4 - 4 - 8 - 1 on agi and 4 - 4 - 5 - 8 on str this seems to be the best choice so far after many rotations. Its true that mana goes fast but with FT gear, troub regen and 16-20k average raid dps its not a problem. Another good choice was str/wis, but i don't wanna play second slot slot emty since i got the claymore rewards.</P> <P>Velizar, 70 warlock/68 sage, Remnant, Runnyeye</P>

[Vaylan77]

<P>it's just a matter of diversity in the group. i am playing on talendor where you have a hard time finding peoplle to play with so normally i play with a bruiser and a defiler and i am getting always aggro. last time i was in a group together with a guardian, a troubadour and a dirge and this time i always never had aggro. i could cast my devastating spells at the start of the fight and it was so cool.</P> <P>so i think a warlock does not need such a spell but rather needs a good group which enhances his potential perfectly.</P>

[drajev]

<P>A raid can't be gathered around one and single class because the general setup is geing deteriorated. If your troub happen to slack or your pally is needed to buff your MT, then live with it and do less damage or get agro and die.</P> <P>On a side note, the best spell we have imho is Dark Infestation. This is always the first spell i cast in any encounter to make the blobs pop asap after that with maelstorm and other DD/dots as they do great dps and doing so, they create their own agro. </P> <P>On single target DI does around 250-300 dps, imagine 3-4 target encounter, that's 800-1200 dps. I don't suppose anyone can tell me a better spell with so steady dps that creates no agro at all for the warlock. Unfortunately this is the only dmg spell i still miss M1, never seen it on broker, suppose i should get on mentoring and do some low t6 instances:p</P>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ivane000 wrote:<BR> <P>being abled to unload all the time with no fear of agro ( long as u got the troub). </P> <P>-ivann</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This already exists. As long as the paladin has amends on me I can go all out with everything I have and never get aggro. Hell even when I even start the fight with devastation I rarely get aggro. </P> <P>I do agree that a 39% hate transfer probably isnt going to happen. Id be happy with 10-20%. I still think 3% is too low, but I'll take whatever they are willing to give. </P>

[Keitho]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tomanak wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Ivane000 wrote: <div></div> <p>being abled to unload all the time with no fear of agro ( long as u got the troub). </p> <p>-ivann</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>This already exists. As long as the paladin has amends on me I can go all out with everything I have and never get aggro. Hell even when I even start the fight with devastation I rarely get aggro. </p> <p>I do agree that a 39% hate transfer probably isnt going to happen. Id be happy with 10-20%. I still think 3% is too low, but I'll take whatever they are willing to give. </p><hr></blockquote>Amneds  bad thing is  The Paladin doesnt tank..she gets agroo and usually dies then there me still casting and gets agro....but if everyone says....3% yay Ill take that ..better then nothing .....SOE will never up it... Id like to se eit atleast 10 15% 20% the best</div>

[emagine]

I actually wouldnt mind a spell that had a duration on it like N.Rhealm, get like 45 seconds to get a constant deagro on what ever spell<u><b>S </b></u>you cast (including AE's) in that duration, recast like 1 min after the 45 seconds is up..... that way during the 45 we can unload, tanks can establish a good relative ammount of hate... when it wears off still blast away being caucious and fight is done... just an idea<div></div>

[Keitho]

<div><blockquote><hr>emagine wrote:I actually wouldnt mind a spell that had a duration on it like N.Rhealm, get like 45 seconds to get a constant deagro on what ever spell<u><b>S </b></u>you cast (including AE's) in that duration, recast like 1 min after the 45 seconds is up..... that way during the 45 we can unload, tanks can establish a good relative ammount of hate... when it wears off still blast away being caucious and fight is done... just an idea<div></div><hr></blockquote>another spell that we gotta cast in the middle of a long battle to waste what dps  we do  have  ///sigh</div>

[emagine]

Well if we had a spell like that, you would most likely pre cast it on the pull incoming, so your not generating all that initial hate, then your tank, if good enough should have established enough agro over that 45 secs that you can still cast and finish the encounter with no problems.<p>Message Edited by emagine on <span class=date_text>08-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:07 PM</span>

[Keitho]

<div><blockquote><hr>emagine wrote:<div></div> <div></div>Well if we had a spell like that, you would most likely pre cast it on the pull incoming, so your not generating all that initial hate, then your tank, if good enough should have established enough agro over that 45 secs that you can still cast and finish the encounter with no problems.<p>Message Edited by emagine on <span class="date_text">08-23-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:07 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>precasts yay....am i a healer or tank  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[BrelaBella]

Dark Infestation actually generates hate towards the caster. i can pull with Netherlord and have him tank and hold the agro, i cast DI and the netherlord makes them pop. when the turds finally despawn, the mob will almost always turn on me. ie im getting their agro after they die, just like any other caster pet. and the turds cast a small pbaoe, which can be good or bad depending. IE if anything else is in their range including non agro mobs or such they can add to you. not really the be all end all spell Drajev would have us believe.Nela Bela<div></div>

[emagine]

I dont know your delusions of what you are? Would you like some adjectives? Hey I dont know your dps, but maybe you need those extra 2 seconds for you to parse... who knows!  Maybe you need a better MT to hold a lil longer then your used to, Maybe your pally that amends you needs to work on what he can and cannot do... But comming from you, the impression you give is you want the highest possible nuking with the littlest ammout of hate generated, sorry to burst your bubble, but that will not ever happen.... So suggestions such as netheros rhealm with some timer and stat revisions, would be a viable suggestion for a deagro solution... Precasting who cares... what else are you precasting b4 the pull (maybe another problem your facing)?  At least N.Rhealm will give you the dmg addition to the poison/disease spells for your "lost time" in precasting the spell, sooo it would actually be viable partial solution (depending if the deagro ammount was set right).<div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Malice83 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hate reduction is capped at 40%,</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>that is incorrect.  I'd like to know where you dreamed this up?<BR>

[pharacyde]

<DIV>I like Distorteds idea, pre-casting is just something I already do on Corrupt gift and Netherous realm. I wouldn't mind to precast a desaggro spell that goes for an amount X of time. </DIV>

[Melseb]

I would like something like the illusionist spell that puts me at the bottom of the hate list. But not for just one mob, rather for the entire encounter. Put a sufficiently long recast on it (maybe like 2-3 minutes) and make it require a Nil Crystal for every mob in the encounter.Daenarys70 WarlockMob Squad Kithicor<div></div>

[Malice83]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Malice83 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hate reduction is capped at 40%,</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>that is incorrect.  I'd like to know where you dreamed this up?<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I listen to my troubs. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Who nowadays raid a hell of a lot more than I do. Then again he admitted they might have stealth-changed this in the past few weeks, if so I am at fault.</DIV>

[Splatterpunk28]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>Ideas for improvements:Boon:  Target:  Raid or Group Friend-Causes 10ish% threat to transfer to target, if fighter.Vulian:  Target: Enemy Encounter-Decrease threat to target <i>encounter</i> by 1200ish.Concussive:  Target: Enemy Encounter-30sec duration in which all spells are augmented by a 1000ish hate reductionConsumes a nil crystal and has a 3min recast.If I'm not in the raid group with a pally and/or bard/chanter, I leave the raid because I'll either die constantly or I'll have worse dps than T1 and T2 dps classes and they'd be better of without me.   With tank group having assassin and/or dirge/coercer on raid and giving me a pally and/or troub/chanter I can almost always end up in the top 1-3 dps.  Group setup for us is a matter of getting aggro at 800dps or being fine doing 2000+dps -- that's a shame.  I think these suggestions wouldn't give the tank much of an advantage in general to build up hate and I feel like it puts the responsibility back on the warlock to manage aggro, not the whim of having a perfect group setup or not as it is now. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Splatterpunk28 on <span class=date_text>09-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:56 AM</span>

[DeLa]

Another idea for improvement:Give the new secondary tradeskill profession the capability to add "Hate reducing proc effects or static hate reduction percents" to all gear obtained by crafting, questing or looting!  Make crafters happy.  Make Warlocks & Wizzards happy.  Won't have to tweak a bazillion spells. <div></div>

[Feltrak]

<DIV>A big enemy of the warlock is the way EQ2 agro control works. It seems to have a system of decay that drops your agro faster the higher you are on the list, as well as increasing it faster the lower you are. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Case and point: Amorphous drake, Zerker tanks one of the blobs for 1-2 mins while blob 2 dies. Dps runs in on blob 1, a monk uses all his combat arts, or a warlock starts chaining debuffs and nukes as if agro didn't matter... for some reason, even though the tank may have 60,000 hate, you can still pull agro after bursting 10k dmg. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've never had a warlock in my raid force, and one of our wizards is betraying. I've looked at the warlock spells and it seems that a  reason warlocks may pull agro is related to the damage of their spells. Wizard spells from what I've seen are more spread out. That is, higher damage on a couple and lower damage on a couple. But warlock spells are mostly around the same damage. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, you can't base hate off of damage. The more often in a small period of time you hit a mob, the faster you jump up the agro list. If you were to have spaced out those attacks, and maintained the same dps, you'd be much lower on the list.</DIV>

[Swedemon]

<DIV>Solution ==> A passive or short-term buff that significantly reduces hate-gain to all mobs other than the mob your are targeting in an encounter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd like to see this in the new subclass AA chains.  I think it would fit the description of a warlock in eq2 to a tee.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Swedemon on <span class=date_text>09-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:21 PM</span>

[Inebriation]

There already is the perfect warlock spell... Curse of Isolation, where you can cast it on level 20 mobs and one-shot them using your melee weapon. Duh.. <div></div>

[Gnomie]

<DIV>We do have a spell that lowers aggro on all our spells. Concussive Blasts AA <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> just have to spend 24 points to get it! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Giot 70 warlock</DIV> <DIV>Befallen</DIV>