Wanting to buy 70%

[Cowdenic]

<DIV>You guys may get a great laugh out of this thread I wrote, as it affects warlocks so much. Have fun and a great laugh. It will probably be locked tomorrow for obvious things like telling the truth, and letting out info people dont want to see.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=111760#M111760" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=111760#M111760</A></DIV>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cowdenicus wrote:<div>You guys may get a great laugh out of this thread I wrote, as it affects warlocks so much. Have fun and a great laugh. It will probably be locked tomorrow for obvious things like telling the truth, and letting out info people dont want to see.</div> <div> </div> <div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=111760#M111760" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=111760#M111760</a></div><hr></blockquote>Its one parse, and that parse was ment to show rangers ontop.. This was to show that rangers  have a max dps potential of 1.6kish.. The warlocks/wizards/conj's/brigs/swash's etc are either poorly grouped or slacking hardcore. I wouldent get discouraged over the warlock class unless your talking agro <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Btw, I know nothing about warlock damage..We dont have a 70 lock.</div>

[Mandaloran]

<P>Warlock DPS is fine.  Believe me.  In almost all encounters I am in the top 5 or 6 for all raids.  Generally any encounter with more than 2 mobs I am #1 or #2 in the parse.  There is at lease 1 other warlock in another guild on my server that averages the same DPS.</P> <P> </P> <P>The only times the above is not true is when I get agro and die.  The hate is the only thing about the Warlock class I would like to see fixed.</P> <P>Well, that and lower some of the cast times.</P>

[Shaihsar]

u let a coercer beat you, on a charged presence you didnt even make the parse and a troub did? whats there to look at other then a sub par warlock? maybe im confused tho

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaihsar wrote:<BR> u let a coercer beat you, on a charged presence you didnt even make the parse and a troub did? whats there to look at other then a sub par warlock? maybe im confused tho<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>this is not a parse of me. This is a parse of what a developers own guild did. He posted it, I quoted it.

[MilkToa]

<blockquote><hr>Mandaloran wrote:<P>Warlock DPS is fine.  Believe me.  In almost all encounters I am in the top 5 or 6 for all raids.  Generally any encounter with more than 2 mobs I am #1 or #2 in the parse.  There is at lease 1 other warlock in another guild on my server that averages the same DPS.</P><P> </P><P>The only times the above is not true is when I get agro and die.  The hate is the only thing about the Warlock class I would like to see fixed.</P><P>Well, that and lower some of the cast times.</P><hr></blockquote>Sorry, I believe what I've seen with my own eyes and warlock DPS is not alright.<p>Message Edited by MilkToast on <span class=date_text>08-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:50 PM</span>

[Felshades]

<div><blockquote><hr>MilkToast wrote:<blockquote><hr>Mandaloran wrote:<div></div><p>Warlock DPS is fine.  Believe me.  In almost all encounters I am in the top 5 or 6 for all raids.  Generally any encounter with more than 2 mobs I am #1 or #2 in the parse.  There is at lease 1 other warlock in another guild on my server that averages the same DPS.</p><p>The only times the above is not true is when I get agro and die.  The hate is the only thing about the Warlock class I would like to see fixed.</p><p>Well, that and lower some of the cast times.</p><hr></blockquote>Sorry, I believe what I've seen with my own eyes and warlock DPS is not alright.<p>Message Edited by MilkToast on <span class="date_text">08-12-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:50 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>ok milk, come watch me raid <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  my dps is juuuust fine thank you.</div>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Felshades wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MilkToast wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mandaloran wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Warlock DPS is fine.  Believe me.  In almost all encounters I am in the top 5 or 6 for all raids.  Generally any encounter with more than 2 mobs I am #1 or #2 in the parse.  There is at lease 1 other warlock in another guild on my server that averages the same DPS.</P><BR> <P> </P><BR> <P>The only times the above is not true is when I get agro and die.  The hate is the only thing about the Warlock class I would like to see fixed.</P><BR> <P>Well, that and lower some of the cast times.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Sorry, I believe what I've seen with my own eyes and warlock DPS is not alright. <P>Message Edited by MilkToast on <SPAN class=date_text>08-12-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:50 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>ok milk, come watch me raid <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  my dps is juuuust fine thank you.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>as compared to? on? sorry 2 sets of trash mobs dont count. How about zone parses? How about one uping that and just start parsing days and weeks in general. If you compiled what warlocks are doing against a full half of the classes in the game (not really wanting to include healers and tanks, although on some certain short fights they could probably beat us too) Scouts and mages, we probably are situationally 8th. But we have that seal line, WOOT for Utility.

[Lurch72]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Felshades wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MilkToast wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mandaloran wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Warlock DPS is fine.  Believe me.  In almost all encounters I am in the top 5 or 6 for all raids.  Generally any encounter with more than 2 mobs I am #1 or #2 in the parse.  There is at lease 1 other warlock in another guild on my server that averages the same DPS.</P><BR> <P> </P><BR> <P>The only times the above is not true is when I get agro and die.  The hate is the only thing about the Warlock class I would like to see fixed.</P><BR> <P>Well, that and lower some of the cast times.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Sorry, I believe what I've seen with my own eyes and warlock DPS is not alright. <P>Message Edited by MilkToast on <SPAN class=date_text>08-12-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:50 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>ok milk, come watch me raid <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  my dps is juuuust fine thank you.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>as compared to? on? sorry 2 sets of trash mobs dont count. How about zone parses? How about one uping that and just start parsing days and weeks in general. If you compiled what warlocks are doing against a full half of the classes in the game (not really wanting to include healers and tanks, although on some certain short fights they could probably beat us too) Scouts and mages, we probably are situationally 8th. But we have that seal line, WOOT for Utility.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Sorry, but I am with Felshades here.  Warlock DPS is not hurting.   Their aggro control/reduction is.   I consistently parse on top of group encounters on about every T7 raid my guild runs, when I am not in tells or distracted. with our Conjuror and Wizard rounding out the top 3.   When I am focused on it, the Conjuror might beat me one fight in ten.     Single target, I go top 5 in all but our most optimum raids, where all of our top DPS log in.    I usually go top 5 in zone parses for the night.   I don't compile parses for weeks or months at a time... just not that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].   But I am confident that if I did, my name would be there too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Figure out why it makes sense for Warlocks to require a troub, paladin and coercer to keep them alive in raids, and then you'll be close to helping the class out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <BR></DIV>

[Solan Swiftfist]

<DIV>I think our DPS is OK (would like to see rift hit less targets and up the damage) IF they would fix our aggro.  I don't want to have to get the perfect raid group setup every time just to see my warlock do the damage I should always be doing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Victicu]

<div><blockquote><hr>Lurch72 wrote:<div> Single target, I go top 5 in all but our most optimum raids, where all of our top DPS log in.</div><hr></blockquote>Yup, you show up high on the parse until people better than you log in, makes alot of sense.  I suppose that is also why you top the parse on group encounters.  No conj's, necro, swash on the raid?  Or they just suck too bad to know how to ae stuff.</div>

[MilkToa]

<blockquote><hr>Victicus7 wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Lurch72 wrote:<div> Single target, I go top 5 in all but our most optimum raids, where all of our top DPS log in.</div><hr></blockquote>Yup, you show up high on the parse until people better than you log in, makes alot of sense.  I suppose that is also why you top the parse on group encounters.  No conj's, necro, swash on the raid?  Or they just suck too bad to know how to ae stuff.</div><hr></blockquote>Yep, that's what I've seen - the better your raid force gets the farther down a warlock sinks on the DPS charts.

[Solan Swiftfist]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MilkToast wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Victicus7 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lurch72 wrote: <DIV> Single target, I go top 5 in all but our most optimum raids, where all of our top DPS log in.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yup, you show up high on the parse until people better than you log in, makes alot of sense.  I suppose that is also why you top the parse on group encounters.  No conj's, necro, swash on the raid?  Or they just suck too bad to know how to ae stuff.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Yep, that's what I've seen - the better your raid force gets the farther down a warlock sinks on the DPS charts.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Single target.. assasin/necro/conj/wiz .  Multiple targets, assasin/ necro/conj because we are out of power <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   The only parse I can get on is a regualar group where the battle lasts exaclty 9 seconds.. any shorter and Apoc can't do its damage..<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  (ok, last sentence isn't true but feels like it).<BR>

[Lurch72]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Victicus7 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lurch72 wrote: <DIV> Single target, I go top 5 in all but our most optimum raids, where all of our top DPS log in.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yup, you show up high on the parse until people better than you log in, makes alot of sense.  I suppose that is also why you top the parse on group encounters.  No conj's, necro, swash on the raid?  Or they just suck too bad to know how to ae stuff.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>People better than me?  Or classes designed to outdo a Warlock single target?  </P> <P>  I think my point is...don't believe the hype.   Warlocks are perfectly capable of cranking out acceptable, or even good single target raid DPS if you are willing to work hard enough at it. </P> <P> As far as groups go, We have a Swash and Conjuror that are scary good, and a necro under application that seems to do pretty damned well.   Sometimes on group encounters, The Swash, Conjuror, and I are 1a, 1b, 1c in a parse, in any particular order....</P> <P>  That still doesnt condemn Warlock DPS in my opinion.   What it does is cause me to question why I am the only one of the three that needs Amends, troubadour, and coercer buffs to keep from ripping and dying... and THAT is my point here.   My DPS depends on my ability to shed/transfer aggro a whole lot more than that of other classes, and I am asking why/if that should be.</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[Victicu]

<div></div>My dps doesnt depend on my aggro... i dont have problems with aggro.I group with a troub, coercer casts their 23% deaggro on me.  We have a zerker tanking specced in the buckler line with both coercer and dirge hate buffs.  I dont pull aggro, I spam every spell all the time, hell i even have my coercer spamming mana flow on me so i dont run out of power so fast.  I can not in any way approach the DPS other classes are putting out.  Its just not possible.Now, i'm not saying that its right to have to depend on all those buffs from other classes to not pull aggro, but in the right setup i have very little problems.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <span class=date_text>08-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:58 PM</span>

[MilkToa]

<blockquote><hr>Lurch72 wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Victicus7 wrote:<BR><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Lurch72 wrote:<DIV> Single target, I go top 5 in all but our most optimum raids, where all of our top DPS log in.</DIV><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yup, you show up high on the parse until people better than you log in, makes alot of sense.  I suppose that is also why you top the parse on group encounters.  No conj's, necro, swash on the raid?  Or they just suck too bad to know how to ae stuff.<BR></DIV><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>People better than me?  Or classes designed to outdo a Warlock single target?  </P><P>  I think my point is...don't believe the hype.   Warlocks are perfectly capable of cranking out acceptable, or even good single target raid DPS if you are willing to work hard enough at it. </P><P> As far as groups go, We have a Swash and Conjuror that are scary good, and a necro under application that seems to do pretty damned well.   Sometimes on group encounters, The Swash, Conjuror, and I are 1a, 1b, 1c in a parse, in any particular order....</P><P>  That still doesnt condemn Warlock DPS in my opinion.   What it does is cause me to question why I am the only one of the three that needs Amends, troubadour, and coercer buffs to keep from ripping and dying... and THAT is my point here.   My DPS depends on my ability to shed/transfer aggro a whole lot more than that of other classes, and I am asking why/if that should be.</P><P> </P><P><BR> </P><hr></blockquote>Lol, 'willing to work at it' - I love that crap. My warlock is my original main toon and my favorite toon. I also have a 70 brigand and a 70 defiler which I level to help the guild. I have no problem 'working at it'. The sad fact is that both of my alts are far superior raiding toons to my warlock. My brigand not only improves the the rest of the raids DPS, but he kicks the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out my warlock in straight up DPS (except for the trash encounters with multiple mobs). Even on multi-target encounters a warlock is only competitive with conjurers, zerkers, swashies, etc..

[Lurch72]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Lol, 'willing to work at it' - I love that crap. My warlock is my original main toon and my favorite toon. I also have a 70 brigand and a 70 defiler which I level to help the guild. I have no problem 'working at it'. The sad fact is that both of my alts are far superior raiding toons to my warlock. My brigand not only improves the the rest of the raids DPS, but he kicks the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out my warlock in straight up DPS (except for the trash encounters with multiple mobs). Even on multi-target encounters a warlock is only competitive with conjurers, zerkers, swashies, etc..<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <P>  I was not pointing a finger as much as saying that in order to get good raid DPS out of a Warlock takes a lot of work.  A constant, nonstop stream of casting for which the learning curve does not end.  I am constantly trying to find the next 50 or 75 points somewhere on the parser.</P> <P> Brigands are awesome in raids, without a doubt.  Every raid should have em.   They also have the ability to FD, use Ignorant Bliss, etc to ditch the enormous amounts of aggro they gain.   And they do not require any outside help mitigating their aggro... which, if I remember... was the point of my post.</P> <P> </P>

[Mastire]

<DIV>I raided that zone today and well I havn't raided in 3 months. I was still able to do most fights 1k DPS. I was only in a group with a troubie. And only 330 Int. Give me an ill. and somone to give me Int buffs I could probably break 1.3k.  I figure the Warlock in those parces was [Removed for Content].</DIV>

[Ivane0]

<P>Warlock DPS is FINE. agro is small problem but is easily manageable.</P> <P>anyone who says other wise needs to upgrade there [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] or learn to play.</P> <P>and believe me there is a lot of raiding warlock who suck [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but think they are hot [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</P> <P>-Ivann</P>

[MilkToa]

<blockquote><hr>Ivane000 wrote:<P>Warlock DPS is FINE. agro is small problem but is easily manageable.</P><P>anyone who says other wise needs to upgrade there [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] or learn to play.</P><P>and believe me there is a lot of raiding warlock who suck [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but think they are hot [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</P><P>-Ivann</P><hr></blockquote>Warlock DPS is not fine and aggro is a HUGE problem. If you're topping the parses in your raid then the rest of the DPS in your raid needs help, lol.

[Ivane0]

<DIV>LoL, dps is fine. learn to play. im not saying number 1 on all parses, execpt lyc, but its not hard to do top 5 or top 3 easy.</DIV> <DIV>if u cant parse 1500+ min u suck</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-ivann</DIV>

[Victicu]

    Show us your parses Ivann, make sure the duration of the fight is shown too.    Show us how much we suck!<div></div>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ivane000 wrote:<BR> <DIV>LoL, dps is fine. learn to play. im not saying number 1 on all parses, execpt lyc, but its not hard to do top 5 or top 3 easy.</DIV> <DIV>if u cant parse 1500+ min u suck</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-ivann</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I would hope you could parse 1500+ a min</P> <P>What we are looking for is more than 1500 a SECOND</P>

[MilkToa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ivane000 wrote:<BR> <DIV>LoL, dps is fine. learn to play. im not saying number 1 on all parses, execpt lyc, but its not hard to do top 5 or top 3 easy.</DIV> <DIV>if u cant parse 1500+ min u suck</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-ivann</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Lol, typical smack talker - let's see all the parses on the raid boss mobs where your pulling 1500+.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by MilkToast on <span class=date_text>08-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:57 PM</span>

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ivane000 wrote:<BR> <P>Warlock DPS is FINE. agro is small problem but is easily manageable.</P> <P>anyone who says other wise needs to upgrade there [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] or learn to play.</P> <P>and believe me there is a lot of raiding warlock who suck [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but think they are hot [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</P> <P>-Ivann</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Small edit from my last post.</P> <P>I raided Labs today, in my old guild I didn't have much problems. But this time we put a new tank, and I could only manage about 700DPS before pulling agro.<BR></P> <P>So t may be your fault, or it could be your tanks fault <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </P>