Throwing AA thoughts around

[DfknW]

<DIV>Currently going STR/WIS AA line, but doing some pondering.  I'm looking at the Agi line here and for some reason something sticks out at me.  What would be the dps comparison on the faster cast time/refresh time?  If you associate a value down to the actually damage per spell per second it doesn't look to bad.  Faster refresh on Aura and Apocolypse has some appeal.  Am I missing something?  Take a look at it fellow raiders and tell me what you think.  I'm still thinking of staying where I'm at, but I'm desperate to make some sort of mindless effort to stay on parse with them summoner folk.  Please provide your thoughts and tell me what you think.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lilpete 70 warlock/70 Tailor</DIV> <DIV>Amend</DIV> <DIV>Blackburrow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Xede]

<DIV>if your summoners know anything about their class no way you will be on par with them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also i honestly dont see how an extra .4 sec cast time is worht anything especially when most fights last about a min-2 min max</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>8% base damage increase>cast/recast timer reduction IMO</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>M3>M1 spells</DIV>

[DfknW]

maybe on par isn't what I meant.  More like stop getting embarassed by <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Korpo]

WIS line is practically required IMO, the 8% damage boost to everything is unbeatable, and the 24% boost once a minute from Freehand (at rank 5, what I have) is some nice icing.If you run the numbers comparing AGI to STR though, they come out pretty close in terms of the DPS boost they give you, they edge each other out depending on the length of the fight and what order you cast and such. The downside to an AGI spec is that you burn power like there's no tomorrow. The upside is that all that neat procing stuff you are wearing procs a lot more often. You could counter the power burning with the last skill in the WIS line, but then you have to give up the recast speed boost from the AGI line. Decisions, decisions <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.My advice is to try both lines and see what you like, assuming you have a cheap/free AA respec available.<div></div>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Xede you are talking about Disso summoners <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - rest are not even close to em hence - warlocks beat em square and fair on every single fight be it AoE or single target <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>To beat summoners (except for Disso <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) - you need</DIV> <DIV>Have coercer+dirge in MT group and troubadur in your group (nice also to have amends from coercer)</DIV> <DIV>a) Max out you proc damage gear </DIV> <DIV>b) Max out critical hit skills AND crit increasing gear (that include +4% to criticial hit portions) (dont need Catalist - thats a waste)</DIV> <DIV>c) Max out base damage increase via WIS line ( that effectively turn your M1 spells into M3)</DIV> <DIV>d) Timing timing timing ... once Dispatch "on" use FHSed Appocal, if you dont have anything "heavy" to cast - refresh your DOTs some of em have fast casting time.  Try to link Broodling procs with activity of Corrupted Gift and Netherous Realm</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In general have a good table of max possible DPS of every single of your spell and bear in mind that even on 2-mob encounter AOE is better then single target. Once you have priority what cast first and what last (DPS wise) it'll help a lot</DIV>

[Xede]

<DIV>if you notice...i said if the summoner knows how to play their class they will own a warlock every fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and i've had more than just Dissolution summoners own me as well...its about the skill of the player.</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Its not as much about skill .... its all about quality of spells (most of raiding warlocks running at 100% masters ..... cannt say same about summoners since they are dime'a'dozen). Its about quality err better say correct type of gear (procs, procs and little more procs) and about AA</DIV> <DIV>I am not sure about game mechanic but looks to me that AoE spells crit a lot more often then single target DD/DoTs reason? well I guess game calculate chance to crit on any given mob within encounter and if roll successfull on at least 1 mob - crit occure on whole encounter, same goes for offensive procs - if proc have lucky roll at least on 1 mob within encounter - whole encounter will get proc off....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Pins]

<DIV>Your offensive proc information is incorrect.  Your statement about AoE crits is probably right.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Btw here's 2 summoners at the top of the parse in Lyceum, followed by a berserker, wizard, and warlock.  Your summoners obviously suck if a Conjuror and Necromancer are at the top.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.physics.uc.edu/~pinskie/lyceumparse2.JPG"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some players wanted their names hidden due to their AFKness.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Pinski on <span class=date_text>07-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:32 PM</span>

[Xede]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>Its not as much about skill .... its all about quality of spells (most of raiding warlocks running at 100% masters ..... cannt say same about summoners since they are dime'a'dozen). Its about quality err better say correct type of gear (procs, procs and little more procs) and about AA</DIV> <DIV>I am not sure about game mechanic but looks to me that AoE spells crit a lot more often then single target DD/DoTs reason? well I guess game calculate chance to crit on any given mob within encounter and if roll successfull on at least 1 mob - crit occure on whole encounter, same goes for offensive procs - if proc have lucky roll at least on 1 mob within encounter - whole encounter will get proc off....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>skill does have a factor as well. just cause you can hit buttons to cast spells doesnt mean you will do this much dps...you gotta know what order for max dps and know when to use spells as well.

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Bud ... I have in LoA score more then once way over 1500DPS I dont know what wrong with you on this raid.... </DIV> <DIV>The only "skill" warlock need to develope is timed casted FHSed Apocal in conjuction with Dispatch, plus spend hour or so calculating maximum potential DPS of each spell then chart optimum casting circle</DIV> <DIV>I have also fogot kinda stupid thing but none the less it DO add 100-200 or so DPS - use HOs, use em a lot</DIV>

[pharacyde]

<DIV>You defenately need to keep the WIS line. The % increase in damage is just there. It's not random, it's just a pure % added damage over all your spells. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I choose the AGI line as my second line. The reason is that I don't like the crit % chance randomness from the STR line. If you get lucky you can have 3-4crits in a row and do a nice parse, and if you get unlucky you can have no crits at all.  Also the DPS that each spell can offer is "the total amount of damage the spell does, divided by the casting + recover time of that spell". So if you cast faster, your spell will do more DPS. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ex. If you have a 1k nuke average, on a 2sec casting time and .5sec recovery the dps from that spell will be 1000 damage / (0.5 + 2) sec = 400dps </DIV> <DIV>      If your casting time is improved by 14.4%, you will cast the spell in 1.7sec and the dps would be 1000 damage / (0.5 + 1.7) sec = 435dps</DIV> <DIV>      So with a 14.4% faster casting time I get around 8.7% more dps This is for a fast casting spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>      Now we know that our big hitters are on a long casting time so I'll give the example with apocalypse on one target.</DIV> <DIV>      Apocapyse total damamge on 1 target is around 6k and the casting time is 4secs + .5sec recovery =>  1333 dps</DIV> <DIV>      Casting improved by 14.4% so 6k in 3.4secs + .5sec  recovery =>   1538 dps   </DIV> <DIV>      So wiht a 14.4% faster casting time I get around  15.4.% more dps. This is for a slow casting spell. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The STR line offers 12% extra crit chance. I think when your spell crits, the damage is increased by 1 to 150%. So on on average you will have a 75% boost when your spell crits. So 12% extra chance to crit x 75% boost is a total boost of  9% in dps. With catalyst the dps boost will be higher of course and very close to the boost from the agi line. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what made me take AGI line. Since it seems both are very close to each other and the AGI line will force me to consume more power. Well we have Netherous realm and Corrupt gift that proc for 30secs long. If I can cast more spell in that period of time, I will get more procs off and doing more dps.  The second reason is pvp reason, the faster I cast the less chance I have of getting interrupted. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My AA look like this WIS 4 - 5 - 4 - 8 - 8 and AGI 4 - 4 - 4 -8.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by pharacyde on <span class=date_text>07-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:15 PM</span>

[Xede]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>Bud ... I have in LoA score more then once way over 1500DPS I dont know what wrong with you on this raid.... </DIV> <DIV>The only "skill" warlock need to develope is timed casted FHSed Apocal in conjuction with Dispatch, plus spend hour or so calculating maximum potential DPS of each spell then chart optimum casting circle</DIV> <DIV>I have also fogot kinda stupid thing but none the less it DO add 100-200 or so DPS - use HOs, use em a lot</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>if you look at the parses as a whole....the entire raid was a little on the low side...i had (not lookin at the parse) about 1300...with the top being 1800</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also you need to calculate the times i die as well as afk's. I've had a parse of Lyceum over 1500 numerous times as well.</DIV>

[Laiina]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pharacyde wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>The STR line offers 12% extra crit chance. I think when your spell crits, the damage is increased by 1 to 150%. So on on average you will have a 75% boost when your spell crits. So 12% extra chance to crit x 75% boost is a total boost of  9% in dps.</STRONG> With catalyst the dps boost will be higher of course and very close to the boost from the agi line. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what made me take AGI line. Since it seems both are very close to each other and the AGI line will force me to consume more power. Well we have Netherous realm and Corrupt gift that proc for 30secs long. If I can cast more spell in that period of time, I will get more procs off and doing more dps.  The second reason is pvp reason, the faster I cast the less chance I have of getting interrupted. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My AA look like this WIS 4 - 5 - 4 - 8 - 8 and AGI 4 - 4 - 4 -8.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Message Edited by pharacyde on <SPAN class=date_text>07-31-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:15 PM</SPAN><BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>While on paper you might get a 9% increase using your numbers, in actual practice with my Conjuror pet I found it to be a lot lower overall, mainly because the mage pet has such low hp that any zone with AE mobs kills it in one shot - and dead pets dont do much damage.</P> <P>In T7 zones I find I need to use my tank pet 80-90% of the time simply because it can survive the ae's.<BR></P>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>AGI line not reduce casting time per se it reduce RECAST .... It would be benificial if warlock have only limited number of spells to cast. In such case you can squeeze in LONG fight more heavy hitters but for a price more mana to burn .... Crits on spell allow you boost DPS on same % w/o burning extra power</DIV>

[Fael]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<div>AGI line not reduce casting time per se it reduce RECAST .... It would be benificial if warlock have only limited number of spells to cast. In such case you can squeeze in LONG fight more heavy hitters but for a price more mana to burn .... Crits on spell allow you boost DPS on same % w/o burning extra power</div><hr></blockquote>The Ag line description says BOTH improved cast time (Spellshaping - 14.4%) and reduced refresh timers (Spellshifting - 12%).  No personal experience, just reading what it says.Mal</div><p>Message Edited by Faelos on <span class=date_text>08-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:38 AM</span>