Are Warlocks better than Wizards?

[rrubbadub]

<DIV>I know this is a question that has been asked a thousand times, but I just can't decide on a Wizard or Warlock so maybe someone who has a high level Warlock can help me. I have both a Wizard and Warlock on the isle at level 9; I love the power the Warlock shows over the Wizard <U>right now on the isle</U>. I mean come-on, the level 9 Warlock drops a mob of 3 in a single spell, while the Wizard has to throw a spell at each of the 3 in the mob. I do understand that a Warlock has the advanage of AOE spells and can  devastate multiple opponents at once, while the Wizard is the master of DD spells. I do like the fun spells that Wizards have and have no idea what they are for Warlocks. I was told that Warlocks have been nerfed to death and can't hold a candle to a Wizard in DPS and the abiliy to solo, so you can see, I have only half the story and need your help.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Does a Wizard out DPS Warlocks?</DIV> <DIV>2) Do Wizards solo better than Warlocks?</DIV> <DIV>3) Which is in more of demand for groups and raids?</DIV> <DIV>4) Who has the best utilities?</DIV> <DIV>5) Are you happy with your level 70 Warlock?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am not trying to start a flame war, I just need the facts so I can decide and not fell like I wasted my time on this char. Thanks for any help.</DIV>

[Niun01]

<div></div><div> </div> <div>1) Does a Wizard out DPS Warlocks? <b>Sometimes</b></div> <div>2) Do Wizards solo better than Warlocks? <b>No</b></div> <div>3) Which is in more of demand for groups and raids?  <b>Groups= Warlock for the WIN! / Raids= Depends on how well you know your class and how well you use your abilities.</b></div> <div>4) Who has the best utilities?  <b>Utility are for scouts</b></div> <div>5) Are you happy with your level 70 Warlock? - <b>Extremely happy with my 65 Warlock</b></div><div></div><p>Message Edited by Niun01 on <span class=date_text>07-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:28 AM</span>

[Dajuuk]

<DIV>Wizards and Warlocks have the same number of AOE spells both classes are very effective AOE classes.   The warlocks best spell is AOE based and the wizards is Single target based.   So, in AoE situations the Warlock has a slight edge.   In Single target situations the wizard has a slight edge.   Other than that the classes are so similiar that any discussion about which is better is really rediculous.   They are differant not better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am happy with my level 70 warlock.   I know of pleny of wizards that are very happy with their wizard too.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>1) Does a Wizard out DPS Warlocks? <B>Depends<BR><BR></B></DIV> <DIV>2) Do Wizards solo better than Warlocks? <STRONG>Yes, Root/Nuke is probably the least effective soloing technique available to any class.   That being said however, the Wizard having better single target nukes means less root break chances and probably more success.  That being said however, if your intending to solo alot, you will probably be alot happier playing something other than a sorc based class.  Both can solo, but groups is where we really shine.</STRONG><B><BR><BR></B></DIV> <DIV>3) Which is in more of demand for groups and raids?  <B>I believe that the warlock is the best group/exp DPS class in the game, but while still very usefull on a raid, they lag behind the more single target focused classes.   <BR><BR></B></DIV> <DIV>4) Who has the best utilities?  <B>Neither class has high utility.  You want utility play something else.<BR><BR></B></DIV> <DIV>5) Are you happy with your level 70 Warlock? - <B>Very Happy.<BR><BR></B></DIV></DIV>

[Xede]

<P>i will say this, play what you wanna play not based on what other people tell you. We all have different opinions on the class as a whole. Just because you arent the end all be all class doesn't mean you will not have fun. I will be the first to admit that yes we can deal awesome damage we do need a slight bit of help in our DPS, but not as much as everyone else may say.</P>

[rascheiw]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Patrix513 wrote:<div></div> <p>i will say this, play what you wanna play not based on what other people tell you. We all have different opinions on the class as a whole. Just because you arent the end all be all class doesn't mean you will not have fun. I will be the first to admit that yes we can deal awesome damage we do need a slight bit of help in our DPS, but not as much as everyone else may say.</p><hr></blockquote>We just need abit of help on single target DPS imo.For example I would like to have the reuse timer of void distortion reduced to 9 secs to be on par with ball of lava (yes we have a small advantage with this spell because we get some power back if it lands but still this would help us abit on single target DPS <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )Could use some revamp of Dark infestation as well (dont get me wrong the spell rocks), it stops ticking once the broodlings spawn (i think they removed the ticks so that the broodlings dont spawn over and over again). It could be changed so that DI has 2 effects, 1 would be the tDoT and the 2nd could be a curse placed on the mob that will trigger the broodlings and vanish once they spawned this way we have broodlings AND ticks at the same time (this again would give a little boost to our single target DPS)Just my 2cp</div><p>Message Edited by rascheiw on <span class="date_text">07-20-2006</span> <span class="time_text">04:57 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by rascheiw on <span class="date_text">07-20-2006</span> <span class="time_text">05:27 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by rascheiw on <span class=date_text>07-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:29 PM</span>

[matinisback]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>1) Does a Wizard out DPS Warlocks?-multi [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] yea</DIV> <DIV>2) Do Wizards solo better than Warlocks?-yes</DIV> <DIV>3) Which is in more of demand for groups and raids?-warlock imo</DIV> <DIV>4) Who has the best utilities?-[Removed for Content]</DIV> <DIV>5) Are you happy with your level 70 Warlock?- yes but definitly on pvp serv</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

<div><blockquote><hr>rascheiw wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>We just need abit of help on single target DPS imo.For example I would like to have the reuse timer of void distortion reduced to 9 secs to be on par with ball of lava (yes we have a small advantage with this spell because we get some power back if it lands but still this would help us abit on single target DPS <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )Could use some revamp of Dark infestation as well (dont get me wrong the spell rocks), it stops ticking once the broodlings spawn (i think they removed the ticks so that the broodlings dont spawn over and over again). It could be changed so that DI has 2 effects, 1 would be the tDoT and the 2nd could be a curse placed on the mob that will trigger the broodlings and vanish once they spawned this way we have broodlings AND ticks at the same time (this again would give a little boost to our single target DPS)</div><hr></blockquote>I pretty much feedbacked this in the past few weeks, these two changes are needed.</div>

[Vaylan77]

<P>i have a lvl 70 warden on the pvp and startet to create a warlock. he is 27 now - also on the pvp server. and i must say until now: WOW!</P> <P>he can do so much damage especially to groups that he is able to walk through zones very fast. i am levelling much faster with the warlock than with my warden. i think a warlock is much better suited in a group than wizards because the most effective spells a warlock has are group spells. i want to say that you really should make a difference betwenn aoe and encounter spells. currently my warlock only has ONE offensive aoe spell, but two encounter spells and some more encounter spells which drain power etc. encounter spells are NOT the same as aoe spells!</P> <P>yesterday i was the first time grouped in a full 6 person group together with a wizzard and the damage we did in this group was horrible. while i throwed out the aoe and encounter spells the wizard picked the targets and often finished them off. with this group we were so fast and mobs were no problem for us.</P> <P>so i think it depends on your playstyle - yesterday i killed two people at once in pvp that were both only one level lower than me, just because i was able to fight both people at once, with encounter and aoe spell. these spells were enought to kill one of them, the tank was finished off afterwards with a single nuke. a wizard would have had more problems i think here.</P> <P>the problem of the warlock is that most of his spells do poison and desease damage so if you fight against someone with very high resistance the warlock would have a problem. the same problem have wizards when for example fighting against wardens - wardens have very high resistance against heat and cold (my warden for example is at the cap for both and wizards have major problems hitting me!). but in my opinion it's easier to find items etc. which increase the resistance against heat and cold than against poison and desease so i think a warlock will do better.</P>

[rrubbadub]

<P>I want to thank everyone who took the time to help me; your information was very helpful. I did make a decision and I chose the Wizard class, there was no one reason why I chose the Wizard. They are so close in everything, so I went on what I think I would like to play for the next 70 levels oh yea, the fun spells of the Wizard did help in that choice (a little) but wasn't the only reason. I know that down the road if the Wizard class don't fit me I can betray to the Warlocks but I don't see that happening.</P> <P> </P> <P>  Thanks again for the help. =)</P>

[Tanatus]

<P>1) Sometimes </P> <P>2) Hell YES - wizard solo MUCH better then warlock - because wizard have big single target nukes and they are nukes not dots ..</P> <P>3) For group warlock, for raid probably same</P> <P>4) Warlocks have utilities????</P> <P>5) More or less yes </P>

[Tyrion]

<P>1) On single targets and sometimes 2 targets, yes. Occasionally 2 targets, and all encounters with 3 or more targets, no.</P> <P>2) Generally I would say yes. If you're not going after heroic named, then both are fine as there are an equal amount of single and multi-target encounters. If you want solo named heroic, Wizard is top-knotch.</P> <P>3) *shrugs* I think I'm better than a wizard in groups because I can mow down groups with startling effieciency, and my single target dps is still respectable. That's just me though. Both classes are excellent on raids.</P> <P>4) Warlocks don't have utility. All quote, unquote "utility" we have is equalled and surpassed by a Conjuror's "utility". We seriously need an out of comabt utility spell equal to a Wizard's evac. I havn't heard any original ideas though. I don't want the FD, Evac, shards, ect., I want something unique. I just can't think of anything off the top of my head. :smileysad:</P> <P>5) DEFENITELY. Excuse my filthy mouth, but I [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing own with my Warlock. I know how to play my warlock very, very well, and I've never been in a group or raid where someone said they didn't need me based on my class or skill. As another mentioned, just enjoy the class. We need some fine-tuning, but we're not as gimped as everyone makes us out to be. If someone says we suck, it's probably because they suck at playing a Warlock, or are around other players who suck at playing a Warlock. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[TGAr]

<P> </P> <P> I keep hearing about how single target nukes shine in raids, Every raid that I have ever been in had an hour or so of trash mobs that were all linked in between bosses. Wouldn't that call for AOE and not single target nukes? </P>

[duuf]

TGAREA wrote: I keep hearing about how single target nukes shine in raids, Every raid that I have ever been in had an hour or so of trash mobs that were all linked in between bosses. Wouldn't that call for AOE and not single target nukes? __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________ Biggest problem is secondary target agro.  If a warlock goes crazy aoe there will be a secondary target leaving the tank for the cloth clad in the back.  Even trash mobs own cloth so most encounters a Warlock will need to concentrate primarily on the main target limiting their aoe/multi target spells to something below the secondary mobs agro levels.    Duufuss lvl70 pally Duffus lvl70 wiz Everfrost <div></div>

[Xirin_of_Saryrn]

<P>Warlocks usually get out dps'd by wiz in raids simply  because if you use AEs in raid you will pull aggro - no question about that. Are wizards better? Imo i dont think so, simply because in groups i will at least match if not beat Wiz dps. The sole reason a wiz comes out on top in parses is usually because they throw down fusion right before a mob dies. Also the warlock does have a lil bit of utility via Phantom Pillaging(27 mana to group every 3 sec for 36 seconds)</P> <P>Either way both classes r fun so play what you enjoy more. I just happen to enjoy my warlock since i like dominating multiple mobs at a time</P> <P>- Xirina 70 Warlock of Nagafen</P>

[Max122]

Good point there Xirina with the much less reuse on the pillaging line that spell can pump in lots of power to your group on a 3+ min named fight I am so glad it has some real use now. Master 1 is 351 I believe power to everyone in the group that is huge if you get it off 3 ot 4 times on a fight.

[SalBlu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xirin_of_Saryrn wrote:<BR> <P>Warlocks usually get out dps'd by wiz in raids simply  because if you use AEs in raid you will pull aggro - no question about that. Are wizards better? Imo i dont think so, simply because in groups i will at least match if not beat Wiz dps. <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>The sole reason a wiz comes out on top in parses is usually because they throw down fusion right before a mob dies.</FONT></STRONG> Also the warlock does have a lil bit of utility via Phantom Pillaging(27 mana to group every 3 sec for 36 seconds)</P> <P>Either way both classes r fun so play what you enjoy more. I just happen to enjoy my warlock since i like dominating multiple mobs at a time</P> <P>- Xirina 70 Warlock of Nagafen</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That's not necessarily true.  Why would I tag a 3 minute refresh, heavy hitting spell onto a mob as it is about to die?  In a heroic multi-mob situation, i throw down my dots, I throw down my two AOEs, move to the side of the mobs encompassing the whole group, nail Catalyst, nail Freehand, then nail Fusion.  Most times at the point before Fusion is cast, the primary focus mob is at half health or so.  After Fusion is cast, primary mob is dead, and most of the time the secondary mobs have followed suit given that my Fusion hits for 15k plus per target.</P> <P>Fusion is not a last moment spell.  That would really be a waste of something that is relatively long to refresh.<BR></P>

[Barobra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SalBluee wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xirin_of_Saryrn wrote:<BR> <P>Warlocks usually get out dps'd by wiz in raids simply  because if you use AEs in raid you will pull aggro - no question about that. Are wizards better? Imo i dont think so, simply because in groups i will at least match if not beat Wiz dps. <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>The sole reason a wiz comes out on top in parses is usually because they throw down fusion right before a mob dies.</FONT></STRONG> Also the warlock does have a lil bit of utility via Phantom Pillaging(27 mana to group every 3 sec for 36 seconds)</P> <P>Either way both classes r fun so play what you enjoy more. I just happen to enjoy my warlock since i like dominating multiple mobs at a time</P> <P>- Xirina 70 Warlock of Nagafen</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That's not necessarily true.  Why would I tag a 3 minute refresh, heavy hitting spell onto a mob as it is about to die?  In a heroic multi-mob situation, i throw down my dots, I throw down my two AOEs, move to the side of the mobs encompassing the whole group, nail Catalyst, nail Freehand, then nail Fusion.  Most times at the point before Fusion is cast, the primary focus mob is at half health or so.  After Fusion is cast, primary mob is dead, and most of the time the secondary mobs have followed suit given that my Fusion hits for 15k plus per target.</P> <P>Fusion is not a last moment spell.  That would really be a waste of something that is relatively long to refresh.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Luckily this was stopped a little bit by ACT and ExtDPS. No more crazy DPS just by casting a big spell at the end of the fight.

[SalBlu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Barobrain wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SalBluee wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xirin_of_Saryrn wrote:<BR> <P>Warlocks usually get out dps'd by wiz in raids simply  because if you use AEs in raid you will pull aggro - no question about that. Are wizards better? Imo i dont think so, simply because in groups i will at least match if not beat Wiz dps. <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>The sole reason a wiz comes out on top in parses is usually because they throw down fusion right before a mob dies.</FONT></STRONG> Also the warlock does have a lil bit of utility via Phantom Pillaging(27 mana to group every 3 sec for 36 seconds)</P> <P>Either way both classes r fun so play what you enjoy more. I just happen to enjoy my warlock since i like dominating multiple mobs at a time</P> <P>- Xirina 70 Warlock of Nagafen</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That's not necessarily true.  Why would I tag a 3 minute refresh, heavy hitting spell onto a mob as it is about to die?  In a heroic multi-mob situation, i throw down my dots, I throw down my two AOEs, move to the side of the mobs encompassing the whole group, nail Catalyst, nail Freehand, then nail Fusion.  Most times at the point before Fusion is cast, the primary focus mob is at half health or so.  After Fusion is cast, primary mob is dead, and most of the time the secondary mobs have followed suit given that my Fusion hits for 15k plus per target.</P> <P>Fusion is not a last moment spell.  That would really be a waste of something that is relatively long to refresh.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Luckily this was stopped a little bit by ACT and ExtDPS. No more crazy DPS just by casting a big spell at the end of the fight.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yep... spot on Barobrain.

[Korpo]

<P>1) Does a Wizard out DPS Warlocks?</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Depends on the situation. On a single target raid mob I typically get beaten by a good wizard, but it's a matter of 5-10%. On group raid mobs I usually beat a wizard by at least 25%, and often more like 50-75%. The only situation where I get really killed by a wizard is on fights where we can't use any AE stuff at all.</FONT></P> <P>2) Do Wizards solo better than Warlocks?</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Is a kick in the crotch better than a kick in the face? If you want to solo a lot, you're better off with a class designed around soloing.</FONT></P> <P>3) Which is in more of demand for groups and raids?</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>They're pretty interchangable in groups. A warlock and wizard are going to average out about the same over the course of a night grinding. On raids, it depends on the mobs you are fighting, but unless you have a huge guild with lots of copies of each class, both are going to be in demand.</FONT></P> <P>4) Who has the best utilities?</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Wizards have evac and mez. Warlocks have group power feed. The damage shield/weapon proc/power drain buffs that both get are all better on the wizard side IMHO, but not significantly. Neither is really a utility class though.</FONT></P> <P>5) Are you happy with your level 70 Warlock?</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Very.</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by korpo53 on <span class=date_text>07-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:10 AM</span>

[Dogg]

ok i dont care what everybody says.. i gota warlock and whenver i grp with a wiz and get a parser, i ALWAYS hit more damage.. maybe its cuz i get high hits on everything in teh encounter but still, i get the over all highest hit most of teh time too sooo... i say warlocks win wizzys over and over

[Deathspell]

I think it's fun to play Warlock, I've always enjoyed, but in my opinion Wizard class is easier to solo -certain- things.Doesn't really make a difference with your joe-average mobs, but it shows with the tougher opponents.Suppose you have a ^^^mob at low red/orange health and it heals himself in the end...Whatever DOT or nuke a Warlock throws in, the damage is too SLOW and it breaks the root as well, which means stun/pacify and reroot and renuke...(better have some mana left for another try!).When I see Wizards do the same encounter, it doesn't really matter if the mob heals or not, it just gets finished off by their big instant nuke.In that way I do think they have it easier.Also, if you group with a chanter class, your dps gets much more affected then a Wizard's.Suppose there's a group of 3 mobs and 2 are mezzed.You cast your AE spells, but it only ticks on one mob, that's 1/3rd of the dps output for the same amount of mana... I don't see my damage tripple on that mob...People also think Warlocks do no damage coz they don't see big numbers flying above the encounter, but we have more several numbers, but the trick is to get them off before the Wizards finish the mob, lol.Utilities? None.I can live with it, but what bugs me is that even in Tier7 people still ask you for evac or powershards, come on...

[Banshye]

<DIV>In my experience, Warlocks cant solo single mobs quite as well as Wizards because we don't have the single-target nukes that they do. At level 70, about the maximum damage I can do with a single spell on a single target is in the range of 4500 (catalyst+freehand sorcery+apocolypse OR rift and you really got to be careful with rift).  Note - neither one of those are single target nukes and therefore much higher power cost. A wizard can do 14,000+ with a single spell on a single target so they can obviously whittle the critters down quicker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dogg]

[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].....ah gota point there lol

[Lurch72]

<P>Warlocks and Wizards are fundamentally the same basic class, with their individual strengths skewed slightly toward different roles.</P> <P>Warlocks can hit for Poison, Disease, Cold, and Magic damage,  Wizards for Cold, Heat, Magic. </P> <P>I raid with one of of the best wizards on our server, and on any encounter that involves more than one mob, I will win out every time, but not by a ton.  </P> <P>On any encounter with one target, he will beat me, but not by a ton.  </P> <P>From a damage standpoint, I think Wizards and Warlocks are about where they should be in relation to one another.</P> <P>In groups, we both do a ton of damage, and our biggest issue is usually deciding who to put any group de-aggro on.   We are both completely mastered out, experienced players who know our classes, so it's probably a pretty good situation to evaluate the relative strengths and weaknesses of damage potential of both classes.</P> <P>Bottom line, play what you want to play, because at the end game, there really isnt much difference between the two classes.</P> <P> </P>

[zormik]

<P>Guys, sorry to bulge in here but as a warlock you should be focussing on aoe on a raid.  If you can't do that then your setup of the raidforce is not what it's supposed to be.</P> <P>Get a zerker as MT, put a swashie with hate transfer on him and if it's possible a coercer and/or a dirge too.<BR>Let the coercer deaggro you and put a troubadour in your group.  You should be able to aoe as much as you like with this setup.</P> <P>Really if you get aggro with this setup either not all the buffs are on or the MT is sightseeing or something like that...</P> <P> </P> <P>I know with that setup i'd happily take multiple warlocks on my raidforce lol.  Espescially to the lyceum :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Dogg]

uh yea but what about all the low lvl locks that cant get into any raids? so far with my lock i havnt done a raid not once. besides to me raids are only fun to the mt. they get teh agro they get teh fun even if they dont do any damage. at the end who gets the most credit? not the mages for blastin the crap outa it but the tank for just makin sure it looks at him and makes the healers go crazy and all the mages pray for their lives

[zormik]

<DIV>Yeah i know, they should give you sorcerers a de-aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well what can you do.  Best chance you get is to get a paladin tanking with amends on you and a troubadour in your group, that should do the trick too. Even without the troubadour it should be a whole lot better...</DIV>

[Tanatus]

Zormik its already kinda canonic to have MT group like Guard-Coercer-Dirge-Templar-Druid-Defiler - there is no space for swashi here really ... with just this set up and coercers amends warlock can safely go around 1200-1300DPS w/o pulling agro to go above 1500 yes you need troubadur (for Dont kill the messanger AND de-agro <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)

[RowenaRedarm]

<DIV>Warlocks in many ways rule! Yet there are some disparties that I wish Sony would address. The AoE issue at the high end is an important one, as is the lack by our class of a meaningful untility spell. I recently posted this in this forum under Rift Crits:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have fine numbers at the high end for Rift--someone told me they thought Rift as an AoE doesn't respond to Catalyst [the warlock critical hit AA line spell], but I disagree. I too have seen numbers like this using the spell with Catalyst. An issue for me though is that my friend the wizzie last night on a Labs raid used Fusion with crit and guess what? The spell hit for over 13,000 points of damage to the several epics we were fighting--this seems unfair. Wizzies shouldn't have an AoE that does more damage than a warlock, who is supposed to be the top tier of AoE, DoT damage. Sony needs to address this issue--and I don't mean by nerfing wizzies. They need to fix our spell set!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some will make the argument that Fusion hits fewer mobs, straight out in front of the spellcaster, while Rift hits all mobs in a circular radius. This is indeed true, yet most of us would agree that in most situations Fusion is superior to Rift--thus in many ways, wizards--who need no crystals, who have a mana recovery spell that DOES NOT TAKE LIFE EXCHANGE, and who have a truly useful utility spell that evacs their party (while warlocks have nothing that useful--our Siphoning line is one of the biggest jokes in the game)--are thus superior to warlocks as a class. Sony needs to address these issues--again, not by nerfing wizzies, but by giving warlocks back more of our former glory in comparison to wizards and refining our class's spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Arrowfey, 70 Warlock Butcherblock</DIV> <DIV>Order of Valour</DIV>

[Xede]

<DIV>actually our siphoning line is rather good now that it doesnt require a nil crystal, lesser cast time and gives more power back than what is used. plus it gives power to the entire group and is especially helpful on those longer fights</DIV>

[Tanatus]

Also I have admit that combination of 2 Master Canibalize spell IS helpfull - it still not nearly as good as it use to be (heh I still remember old sweet times then I had 660 power back from burning 550 health <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)

[zormik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> Zormik its already kinda canonic to have MT group like Guard-Coercer-Dirge-Templar-Druid-Defiler - there is no space for swashi here really ... with just this set up and coercers amends warlock can safely go around 1200-1300DPS w/o pulling agro to go above 1500 yes you need troubadur (for Dont kill the messanger AND de-agro <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>When i'm MT we have warlocks going for 1500 dps sometimes and i don't even have a coercer and a dirge in my group.  I just have to do it with a swashie sometimes. The warlock is in a group with a troubadour though.</P> <P>Well what i'm trying to say is that if you have the right setup and everybody is doing his job well you should be able to go way over 1500 dps. I would really like to see a warlock pull an encoutner of a zerk MT by example midfight with the zerker having a dirge and a coercer and the warlock having coercer deaggro and troub in his group...</P>

[Dogg]

<DIV> <P>zormik wrote:</P> <P>Well what i'm trying to say is that if you have the right setup and everybody is doing his job well you should be able to go way over 1500 dps. I would really like to see a warlock pull an encoutner of a zerk MT by example midfight with the zerker having a dirge and a coercer and the warlock having coercer deaggro and troub in his group...</P> <P>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P> <P>hahaha i bet u any good warlock that had any clue what they were doin could pull it easy</P></DIV>

[KniteShayd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rrubbadub wrote:<BR> <DIV>I know this is a question that has been asked a thousand times, but I just can't decide on a Wizard or Warlock so maybe someone who has a high level Warlock can help me. I have both a Wizard and Warlock on the isle at level 9; I love the power the Warlock shows over the Wizard <U>right now on the isle</U>. I mean come-on, the level 9 Warlock drops a mob of 3 in a single spell, while the Wizard has to throw a spell at each of the 3 in the mob. I do understand that a Warlock has the advanage of AOE spells and can  devastate multiple opponents at once, while the Wizard is the master of DD spells. I do like the fun spells that Wizards have and have no idea what they are for Warlocks. I was told that Warlocks have been nerfed to death and can't hold a candle to a Wizard in DPS and the abiliy to solo, so you can see, I have only half the story and need your help.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Does a Wizard out DPS Warlocks? <FONT color=#ff3300>single target, yes</FONT>.</DIV> <DIV>2) Do Wizards solo better than Warlocks? <FONT color=#66ffff>I do on a PvP server.  warlocks are a rare breed.  thier cast times are way to slow to 1v1.  in a group, though they'd shine just as well as a wizzy.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>3) Which is in more of demand for groups and raids? <FONT color=#ffff00>depends on player</FONT></DIV> <DIV>4) Who has the best utilities?<FONT color=#cc00ff>E</FONT><FONT color=#3366ff>n</FONT><FONT color=#66cc00>c</FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>h</FONT><FONT color=#ff6600>a</FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>n</FONT><FONT color=#ff00cc>t</FONT><FONT color=#ffccff>e</FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>r</FONT></DIV> <DIV>5) Are you happy with your level 70 Warlock?<FONT color=#3333ff>my 30 warlock is fun to play, but my wizzy is the bomb on pvp.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am not trying to start a flame war, I just need the facts so I can decide and not fell like I wasted my time on this char. Thanks for any help.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>my wizzy solos fine 1v1.  if you wanna grind, prolly a warlock.<BR>

[OxnardRanger]

<P>Several things I have not seen answered:</P> <P>1.  When fighting a group of mobs, if you eliminate one, that one is no longer dealing damage.  So it would be better to focus on a single target and take it out quicker.  Esepecially if one of them is more powerful than the others.  A warlock would be dividing his damage amongst all the targets allowing them to live longer and continue to deal damage.  In many big fights, it is critical to quickly eliminate the first 1 or 2 and then the rest are easily manageable.  - Advantage Wizard.</P> <P>2.  Are debuffs single target or AOE?  If they are single target, then the group is debuffing only the 1 mob they are focused on.  All of the Wizards damage hits a debuffed target.  For a warlock all but 1 target has their full resists and mitigation. When damage dealt is shown, does it report damage before or after resists?  Either way debuffs should affect the whole encounter and often take so long to cast that they are not worth the trouble.  - Advantage Wizard.</P> <P>3.  What kinda resists do most mobs have, especially high end ones?  If most are highly resistant to cold and heat, but not disease, then a Wizard would be heavily handicapped.  - Advantage ?</P> <P>4.  DOTs arent much use when the mob is almost dead by the time you get the spell off !  DOT cast timers are too long and a group takes them down too quick.  Now it would be a good idea to put the DOTs on other targets that are waiting their turn but then you are again casting on targets that have not been debuffed.  And the total damage of most DOTs if the mob ever absorbed the full ammount is inferior to most immediate nukes anyways.  - Advantage Wizard.</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by OxnardRanger on <SPAN class=date_text>08-12-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:57 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by OxnardRanger on <span class=date_text>08-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:01 PM</span>

[OxnardRanger]

<P> </P><p>Message Edited by OxnardRanger on <span class=date_text>08-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:58 PM</span>

[Dogg]

wow...well if u feel that way about warlocks dont play one. dont sit around sayin how horrible they are and whine and complain. if u dont like em pick a wizy, but ur just gona run into just as many problems as a warlock has

[Xirin_of_Saryrn]

rubbadub said - "<font color="#66ffff">I do on a PvP server.  warlocks are a rare breed.  thier cast times are way to slow to 1v1.  in a group, though they'd shine just as well as a wizzy"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....what pvp server are you on? Well if your not already on nagafen come play over here. You will soon learn that everyone who is anyone has their cold and heat resist at 5k or better. Making the wizzy virtually useless.... Thus why i play a 70 Warlock...i may take longer casting...but i actually land the nukeXirina 70 warlock on NagafenProud member of Talisman</font><div></div>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Xirin roflmao ....</DIV> <DIV>Once ppl start raiding guess what happend? well I'll tell you that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> even with very basic raiding gear (relic+QC quested) every dog and its puppy have resistance across board 5000+ (prey your gods that group dont have warden lol or/and conjur)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So nor warlock neither wizard can land any spells .... and that the reason why casters suck donkey balls in PvP on the high end of game... Sadly I TOLD developer with whom I been in concat during PvP beta that resist factor will take casters out of PvP ... he did not lissened because he was PvPing with his lvl 50 caster (lol) vs. ppl who was geared in mastercrafter quality of gear (double lol) and did not seen much resistance </DIV>

[BaronVonPitviper]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OxnardRanger wrote:<BR> <P>Several things I have not seen answered:</P> <P>1.  When fighting a group of mobs, if you eliminate one, that one is no longer dealing damage.  So it would be better to focus on a single target and take it out quicker.  Esepecially if one of them is more powerful than the others.  A warlock would be dividing his damage amongst all the targets allowing them to live longer and continue to deal damage.  In many big fights, it is critical to quickly eliminate the first 1 or 2 and then the rest are easily manageable.  - Advantage Wizard.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6666>Wrong assumption here: Warlock nukes are not dividing damage. Nuke does same damage it was going to do whether it's on 1 or 5. Interesting line of thought however <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>2.  Are debuffs single target or AOE?  If they are single target, then the group is debuffing only the 1 mob they are focused on.  All of the Wizards damage hits a debuffed target.  For a warlock all but 1 target has their full resists and mitigation. When damage dealt is shown, does it report damage before or after resists?  Either way debuffs should affect the whole encounter and often take so long to cast that they are not worth the trouble.  - Advantage Wizard.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6666>Nope again, hate reducer, poi/dises, pwr/hp debuffers are all AoE</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9999></FONT> </P> <P>3.  What kinda resists do most mobs have, especially high end ones?  If most are highly resistant to cold and heat, but not disease, then a Wizard would be heavily handicapped.  - Advantage ?</P> <P><FONT color=#ff3366>I'd say draw like you have</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>4.  DOTs arent much use when the mob is almost dead by the time you get the spell off !  DOT cast timers are too long and a group takes them down too quick.  Now it would be a good idea to put the DOTs on other targets that are waiting their turn but then you are again casting on targets that have not been debuffed.  And the total damage of most DOTs if the mob ever absorbed the full ammount is inferior to most immediate nukes anyways.  - Advantage Wizard.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff3366>Sorry to say but without your dots, you aint gonna score very high on the parse. Nukes taking over 4 secs are not going to score you ANY dps at all as the fight wraps up. Scourge, Pyre, netherous, DI, and a final shot of Aura at the very end, will keep your dps churning the whole fight. If you don't use these, you are screwed out of a a legitatmate amount of DPS when you get the target not alive message. Don't use them if you want to do crap dps.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[dmitya]

Yes.

[Snowbeard]

<blockquote><hr>BaronVonPitviper wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> OxnardRanger wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p>Several things I have not seen answered:</p> <p>1.  When fighting a group of mobs, if you eliminate one, that one is no longer dealing damage.  So it would be better to focus on a single target and take it out quicker.  Esepecially if one of them is more powerful than the others.  A warlock would be dividing his damage amongst all the targets allowing them to live longer and continue to deal damage.  In many big fights, it is critical to quickly eliminate the first 1 or 2 and then the rest are easily manageable.  - Advantage Wizard.</p> <p><font color="#ff6666">Wrong assumption here: Warlock nukes are not dividing damage. Nuke does same damage it was going to do whether it's on 1 or 5. Interesting line of thought however <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></p> </blockquote><hr></blockquote> I think what he's getting at is that given two options -- do more damage to one mob, rather than less damage to several mobs -- you'd want the former. That is, of course, unless the Warlock spell does the same amount of damage as the Wizard spell (?). <div></div>

[Kram337]

<div></div><div>My opinion differs from others:<div>1) Does a Wizard out DPS Warlocks?     No. Absolutely not. On a single target encounter a warlock is just under a wizards dps. Add a 2nd or 3rd mob to the encounter and we can't be touched. Make it a 5-6 mob encounter and we'll double a wizards dps. Heck, even on a single target, an active warlock > a somewhat lazy wizard.</div> <div>2) Do Wizards solo better than Warlocks?    Again I would say no. If a warlock is using the right spells he can solo quite well. Here's a few tips, use Netheros in conjunction with AoE root and you can take on groups pretty easily.  Also, go find yourself some encounters with 8-10 mobs at a time (heroics), stand at max distance, you can down a group of 8-10 heroics before they get to you. Hard part is finding the right encounters but they're out there.</div> <div>3) Which is in more of demand for groups and raids?    Both wizard and warlock probably receive the same amount of group invites. Though at 70 that doesn't really matter too much. For raids, I'd again say both are welcome additions. Seems as though our wizard friends die slightly less than us. However, if you're carefull you can still crank out great dps without dying.</div> <div>4) Who has the best utilities?    As other people have said, utilities aren't really our thing. We're never invited to raids or groups based on this. Even-so, I'd say we're about equal.</div> <div>5) Are you happy with your level 70 Warlock?    Yes. No class can even compare to a well played warlock on multiple mob encounters. I consistantly double other classes dps. It's all about knowning when and what to start with and the order of spell casting. It's a lot more technical than most people think. If you're not into that stuff and just play for fun and dont care, warlock is still a fun class but Wizard might be better suited as they're slightly less delicate in terms of not getting agro.(I have a warlock btw, not just trolling)</div>    </div><p>Message Edited by Kram337 on <span class=date_text>09-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:15 AM</span>

[Splatterpunk28]

RowenaRedarm wrote: warlock, who is supposed to be the top tier of AoE, DoT damage. <font color="#ffff00">Maybe I misunderstood that, but just to clarify, no where has it ever been said that Warlocks are supposed to be DoT kings.  Actually, I take that back, the original Prima released before EQ2 came out stated we were masters of DoT which was completely untrue at the time and always has been untrue.  I asked MG before it was released if this was true and MG said NO, if a wiz gets a 1000dmg nuke, then a warlock would get it as well -- neither would be better at DD or DoT dmg.  It was that statement that made me settle on Warlock over a Wizard back then.  This has never been stated officially by SoE to be our class strength.</font><div></div><div><blockquote><hr></blockquote>BaronVonPitviper wrote:<blockquote> <blockquote> <hr></blockquote> OxnardRanger wrote:<blockquote> 4.  DOTs arent much use when the mob is almost dead by the time you get the spell off !  DOT cast timers are too long and a group takes them down too quick.  Now it would be a good idea to put the DOTs on other targets that are waiting their turn but then you are again casting on targets that have not been debuffed.  And the total damage of most DOTs if the mob ever absorbed the full ammount is inferior to most immediate nukes anyways.  - Advantage Wizard. <p><font color="#ff3366">Sorry to say but without your dots, you aint gonna score very high on the parse. Nukes taking over 4 secs are not going to score you ANY dps at all as the fight wraps up. Scourge, Pyre, netherous, DI, and a final shot of Aura at the very end, will keep your dps churning the whole fight. If you don't use these, you are screwed out of a a legitatmate amount of DPS when you get the target not alive message. Don't use them if you want to do crap dps.</font></p></blockquote><p><font color="#ff3366"><font color="#ffff00"></font></font></p></blockquote><p><font color="#ffff00">Scourge of Shadows:  (1sec cast, 24sec duration, 81power, 870 highest total dmg)  DPS: 35, DPP: 11, DPC: 870</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">War Pyre:  (2sec cast, 10sec duration, 182power, 1686 highest total dmg) DPS: 141, DPP: 9, DPC: 843</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">Soul Blister:  (2sec cast, nuke, 105power, 987 highest total dmg) DPS:  494, DPP:  9, DPC: 494 </font></p><p><font color="#ff3366"><font color="#ffff00">Void Distortion: (3sec cast, nuke, 201power, 2617 highest total dmg) DPS:  872, DPP: 13, DPC: 872</font></font></p><p><font color="#ff3366"><font color="#ffff00">Looking at all Adept I's w/437int, 388disruption this tells you that there is no simple answer to whether nukes or dots are better, in general -- some nukes are better than some DoTs, some DoTs better than nukes in terms of overall dmg and power efficiency.  As you can see our highest efficient spell is Void Distortion in DPS(dmg/sec), DPP (dmg/pwr) and DPC (dmg/cast).  I would say 95% of the content in game, if grouped, fights will not last 12sec for war pyre, much less 26sec to cast Scourge of Shadows so they are nearly useless unless on a single named or epic mob.  So when you do approach that rare encounter that it's even a question to cast those DoTs it's dependent on what other spells are available to cast, whether power is going to be an issue and if you have to factor in that as well.  The only sure spells I will always cast if they are available is Aura of Nihility and Void Distortion, all else depends on the situation.  I think it's fair to say, in general, Wizards have better front end dmg on single target and warlocks on AoE encounters.  Sadly because of aggro issues, front end dmg is usually not optional on AoE, but it is on single target soo ... I'd say that's a wizard advantage at this point.  But the tables are always turning, so who knows ...</font></font></p><blockquote><hr></blockquote></div><p>Message Edited by Splatterpunk28 on <span class=date_text>09-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:13 AM</span>

[Niun01]

<font color="#ff3366">"Sorry to say but without your dots, you aint gonna score very high on the parse. Nukes taking over 4 secs are not going to score you ANY dps at all as the fight wraps up. Scourge, Pyre, netherous, DI, and a final shot of Aura at the very end, will keep your dps churning the whole fight. If you don't use these, you are screwed out of a a legitatmate amount of DPS when you get the target not alive message. Don't use them if you want to do crap dps."<font color="#ffffff">I fully agree with this statement.  I have considerably uped my DPS by keeping all my DoTs running.  There was another post about this as well.  Now with FHS and appocolypse, I am 1 to 4 on the parse almost every time.keep those DoTs burning at all times.  I actually have a hotbar i use just for raiding.  So my casting order is down pat and no time is wasted casting what is needed.</font></font><div></div>

[Wizboy]

<DIV><FONT color=#ff3333>"I know that down the road if the Wizard class don't fit me I can betray to the Warlocks but I don't see that happening."</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Keep in mind you will not be able to betray to a Warlock from your Wizard due to that they exist in both cities, if your talking about the PvP server exile to other side quest.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Wizboy on <span class=date_text>09-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:17 AM</span>

[Jaroth Cloudwalk]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wizboy wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3333>"I know that down the road if the Wizard class don't fit me I can betray to the Warlocks but I don't see that happening."</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Keep in mind you will not be able to betray to a Warlock from your Wizard due to that they exist in both cities, if your talking about the PvP server exile to other side quest.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Wizboy on <SPAN class=date_text>09-14-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:17 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes you can.

[Korpo]

In the case of druids, sorcerors, bards, and warriors you can betray:same city, new classnew city, new classnew city, same class<div></div>