Warlock AE

[lamebast]

<DIV>Im fairly new to eq2 and from what a gather Warlocks are the supposed masters of AE. I have a 16 warlock and i have some nice PBAoE and encounter dmg but my buddy comes along with his 17 i think it was conj and is doing some strong AE himself and is like man conj owns warlock due to the AE combined with the pet for solo yadda yadda. Im not really looking to solo perse but i want some reassurance that warlocks do indeed win in the AE arena. Im assuming we get some more AE to play with later.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do see warlocks hate control will allow for more spam.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks.</DIV>

[Banshye]

<DIV>I'm a 67 warlock so we have a few seasons between us but I run a parser frequently and <U>in my experience</U>, here's the low-down. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI>On <STRONG><U>single target mobs</U></STRONG> I generally range about 280-480 dps.  Generally that puts me near the top of the heap but Wizzies, Zerkers, pet-classes and rogue-types can out-dps me if they are mashing buttons fast enough.</LI> <LI>On <STRONG><U>small encounters</U> </STRONG>(3 critters) I generally range about 400-800 dps. This puts me in the top two of the parse just about every time unless the tank pulls a group when my recast timers are still down.</LI> <LI>On <STRONG><U>large encounters</U></STRONG> (5 critters+) where I'm able to get some of my blue AEs off (ie. Rift) my dps is in the range of 1000-1400. Usually the only classes that can approach that dps are a main-tanking zerker (with everyones buffs on him) or a fusion-dropping wizzie.</LI></UL> <P>These are just one Warlocks observations, and as such are completely anecdotal - I'm not looking to pick any fights with any of the classes I mentioned above.</P>

[SnowyWlf]

It does indeed get better.  You are still missing a big encounter based AE.  Negative Absolution comes at lvl 20.  Big AE nuke.  Once you get that you are looking at 4 encounter based spells.  At 24 you will get a mana siphon encounter AE.    At 32 you will get Abhorrent Gift which is a self buff for 30 seconds that gives you AE dmg added on to every spell you cast.  Your Shroud buff is giving your tank AE reactive dmg all the time. In other words, it keeps coming.  You will get more and more AE, and the dmg becomes increasingly obscene (choose your Master II spells wisely and you will have lots of fun).  On the flip side, you dont have a pet to be tanking for you while solo, or gathering DPS while you are out of mana.  It's part of the class choice.  On a personal note, since I hit level 22 or 23, I have never felt disappointed in my AE abilities.  I really enjoy the class. <div></div>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lamebastrd wrote:<BR> <DIV>Im fairly new to eq2 and from what a gather Warlocks are the <FONT color=#ff0000>supposed</FONT> masters of AE. I have a 16 warlock and i have some nice PBAoE and encounter dmg but my buddy comes along with his 17 i think it was conj and is doing some strong AE himself and is like man conj owns warlock due to the AE combined with the pet for solo yadda yadda. Im not really looking to solo perse but i want some reassurance that warlocks do indeed win in the AE arena. Im assuming we get some more AE to play with later.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do see warlocks hate control will allow for more spam.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>What I highlighted is exactly how it is currently - supposedly. My honest and sincere advice would be to rerole before it's too late. AE in this game is not even that important and you might be able to say they have the potential but that's as far you could say and.. well if I were to start on warlock probs it might go on for hours so if you really really love aeing then role a conjuror. Every time someone roles a warlock, God sheds a tear.</P> <P>Edit: I only read your first line and then later read the rest of your post and it seems even at your lvl the conj is owning warlocks, and at AE for that matter, don't get me started on singles.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on <span class=date_text>07-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:11 PM</span>

[Banshye]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr>What I highlighted is exactly how it is currently - supposedly. My honest and sincere advice would be to rerole before it's too late. AE in this game is not even that important and you might be able to say they have the potential but that's as far you could say and.. well if I were to start on warlock probs it might go on for hours so if you really really love aeing then role a conjuror. Every time someone roles a warlock, God sheds a tear.</blockquote> <p>Edit: I only read your first line and then later read the rest of your post and it seems even at your lvl the conj is owning warlocks, and at AE for that matter, don't get me started on singles.</p><hr></blockquote>I don't mean to be combatitive but I'd like to hear your arguement that "AE in this game is not even that important". Single target DPS gets the job done most of the time but there are occasions when you need to drop a LOT of mobs at once. Examples include SoS, HoF, the Nest, the Vault, the Den.Warlock single target DPS is good, not great -  however their multiple-target encounter DPS is indeed great ... especially with a tank on hand who knows to spam taunts instead of combat styles.The one thing I cant figure out is why Berserkers are given all that mitigation as well as AE DPS that rivals that of a warlock. Just doesn't seem equitable.</div><p>Message Edited by Banshye on <span class=date_text>07-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:32 AM</span>

[MilkToa]

<blockquote><hr>Banshye wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>What I highlighted is exactly how it is currently - supposedly. My honest and sincere advice would be to rerole before it's too late. AE in this game is not even that important and you might be able to say they have the potential but that's as far you could say and.. well if I were to start on warlock probs it might go on for hours so if you really really love aeing then role a conjuror. Every time someone roles a warlock, God sheds a tear.</blockquote><p>Edit: I only read your first line and then later read the rest of your post and it seems even at your lvl the conj is owning warlocks, and at AE for that matter, don't get me started on singles.</p><hr></blockquote>I don't mean to be combatitive but I'd like to hear your arguement that "AE in this game is not even that important". Single target DPS gets the job done most of the time but there are occasions when you need to drop a LOT of mobs at once. Examples include SoS, HoF, the Nest, the Vault, the Den.Warlock single target DPS is good, not great -  however their multiple-target encounter DPS is indeed great ... especially with a tank on hand who knows to spam taunts instead of combat styles.The one thing I cant figure out is why Berserkers are given all that mitigation as well as AE DPS that rivals that of a warlock. Just doesn't seem equitable.</div><p>Message Edited by Banshye on <span class=date_text>07-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:32 AM</span><hr></blockquote>If you like killing trash mobs then AE is great. It's of little value fighting named encounters in raids, which is where you get the high value loot.

[Banshye]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MilkToast wrote:<BR><BR>If you like killing trash mobs then AE is great. It's of little value fighting named encounters in raids, which is where you get the high value loot.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Milktoast - I think your analysis above is pretty fair . I've had occasion to raid and find myself parsing pretty high on the stack but certainly not in the neighborhood of the Wizard who can do 12k or better with one spell. What we don't have is a unique skill that really gives us value in a raid beyond that of another dps class with high aggro.</P>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

Gonna keep it simple. Firstly I was referring to raids. Group mobs (heroic) drop in 5s so I could care less about heroic mobs except maybe one instance in the game. Also I've raided everything in the game except for Chel'Drak and the Tree contested ring event in the AP (keeps despawning) and been playing since Jan 2005 so I got a lot of experience, and I can tell you now that AE is firstly, not needed in any encounter in the game, and secondly even if it were needed, you would need to AE them down very fast and warlocks cannot do that (huge cast times and aggro problems if cast AEs too early which negates the whole idea of AEing things down quickly) and thirdly and very importantly, AE dps is already very very high in raids. When there are raid trash mobs to AE you will probably cycle through every AE once and void absolution twice at most since they die super fast from other classes which can AE equally like us such as conjurors, necros, wizards and many more, even you said zerkers which is true so you have some idea. If you want number examples say you do 2k dps (considering if you got the right class backup) on trash AE mobs as a warlock and the conjuror/wizard/assassin etc does 1.8k, what is the difference? Does it even matter if you did 200 more dps on trash mobs while all those other classes (so many do more on singles than warlocks it's not funny) do several hundred more on singles and named which mean way way more? And what else does a warlock have? A power feed is all I can think of that's useful but then the wizards feeds the same amount and it's instant, and wizards have evac, warlocks have...? Seal buff is next to useless and if you really need it, troub has a same sort of buff and your disruption or whatever should be very high anyway. So if some of you are satisfied with being a trash mob class then I'm gonna end there.<div></div>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

The warlock class is just not a serious class, there are too many weaknesses to be exploited, even in the one heroic zone that maybe matters, Nizara, you have a mezzer so you cannot use AEs or use dark infestation, so you can only pick out singles with your weak spells so you are next to useless once again. If you are a casual player that soloes and groups or groups occasionally then yea, the warlock can be fine most of the time, but as a serious class to consider for the end game and to have a lustrous EQ2 journey, it is definitely not the class to select if you have any idea about this game.<div></div>

[Banshye]

<P>Well I created my Warlock on Nov 9, 2004 so I've gone though the wars with this character as well. It was a terrific class until the Combat Revamp when they changed us 180 degrees from what the class had been originally designed to do. At that point we were the premiere nuking class with a DOT emphasis and then they changed us to a 2d rate nuking class with the AE focus.</P> <P>I've got the Original Prima Strategy guide and the Warlock description in there doesn't remotely resemble what we see Warlocks as today - almost two years later. Thats SOE for you, the only way they know how to fix imbalances it to break and nerf into obscurity.</P> <P>Usually over the course of time however, SOE does refix the classes - SWG however is an obvious case in which they have not. I trust that at some point the Warlock will get the attention it deserves and SOE will give the class some much needed upgrades. At that point, everybody will be out rolling up warlocks or digging their old ones out of the closet and mine will be already be in place.</P> <P>I don't agree however that warlocks are not a serious class to play - in overcoming adversity, people become better and I can often out DPS most classes even on single targets because I work harder than anyone else.</P> <P>I've got other characters in my stable however - not all my eggs are in this one basket and neither should yours be.</P><p>Message Edited by Banshye on <span class=date_text>07-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:28 PM</span>

[lamebast]

<DIV>Wow this turned out rather depressing ><</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do enjoy the warlock tho lol but from what i gather here basicly you hit end game and become obsolete. oh Joy. I lvl so fast as lock just AEing thro masses of mobs, but i guess that wont last forever.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[SvipOman]

<div><blockquote><hr>SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:The warlock class is just not a serious class, there are too many weaknesses to be exploited, even in the one heroic zone that maybe matters, Nizara, you have a mezzer so you cannot use AEs or use dark infestation, so you can only pick out singles with your weak spells so you are next to useless once again. If you are a casual player that soloes and groups or groups occasionally then yea, the warlock can be fine most of the time, but as a serious class to consider for the end game and to have a lustrous EQ2 journey, it is definitely not the class to select if you have any idea about this game.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Do you play the Warlock class  ? ? ?</div>

[SvipOman]

<div><blockquote><hr>lamebastrd wrote:<div>Wow this turned out rather depressing ><its allways do in here <span>:smileysad:</span> . . . .      We have alot of endgame hardcore powerwhiner in here sry 4 that ! . I have no ideer why the hell they play the Warlock class ? ? ?Just ignore all the gaaaz they let out plz . .We ar not THE topDPS class , but warlocks is not a weak class at all  ! ! </div> </blockquote></div>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

O even if I didn't my brigand alt has better gear than you o mighty svip who has raided what in his life? Your own apartment? Me and you is like Ali vs a midget so don't ever ask me that. Why am I wasting my time on you.<div></div>

[SvipOman]

<blockquote><hr>SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:O even if I didn't my brigand alt has better gear than you o mighty svip who has raided what in his life? Your own apartment? Me and you is like Ali vs a midget so don't ever ask me that. Why am I wasting my time on you.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Lool i relly love the way you lower you self m8 . No im not one of the "all my life is EQ" .  im in a guild whare we play the <b>GAME</b> ! for fun not for life  ok kid  ? ? But its not my gear thare is the problem in here , its the way alots of the endgame Warlocks power whine all the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing time ! In simpel ! IF YOU DONT LIKE THE WARLOCK CLASS PLZ REROLLE AND MOVER OVER TOO YOUR NEW CLASS BORD !<div></div>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

Stop derailing this guy's thread and crawl back into your hole.<div></div>

[Araxes]

<div></div>So to get back on track ...I stayed quiet on this ... the other day I wrote up a big post about it but decided not to send it ... however after reading all remarks I have a couple things to say.First - as anyone who reads these boards knows -- I do love to play my warlock.  So don't call me a whiner.  I make more pro-warlock posts than just about anyone I see on here.  But I am going to be honest and fair in my assessment.  People play the game for different reasons.  There's nothing wrong with enjoying the game the way you like to enjoy it -- whether that means raiding, grouping, or soloing.  However ... the simple fact of the matter is that there ARE certain classes who fulfill each playstyle BETTER than others.  Yes.  They are NOT all equal in that regard.  Nor should they be - becuase that would be -really- boring. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />So.  All that being said - here's my thoughts :1.)  As it currently stands we are a group-centric class.  Wer can parse in the top 5 on raids (I generally parse in the top 5 in raids anyway - and I have mostly adept spells spells a few masters and what I would call average gear for the high end, mostly legendary).  But our true value lies in grouping.  IMHO.  So in that regard one of the above posters is correct ... we are OKAY in raids but we are not (generally) number 1 on single-target raid encounters.  (And ask any raider -- that's really all that matters when all is said and done.)  2.)  Warlock AE is insanely higher than any other class AE --- *ONLY WHEN* fighting linked encounters or encounters with 3 or more outside adds AND when using Netherous Realm (which is a level 50 something spell IIRC).  Those parameters aside warlocki AE is about on par with any other mage AE.  We only have 2 blue AE (PBAoE) one of which is on stupendously long 3 min recast and the other which is useless when not paired with Netherous Realm and Gift line ...  I can parse 2200 on MoA x4 in HoF ... guess when?  Right at the entrance when you have those 6 linked epics.  Otherwise?  I'm about 400-900.  Truth.  Which sets me right smack in the middle of the top 10, give or take a couple spots -- so anywhere from #3 to #7.  Not BAD ... but not the best.  Certainly not where a sorcerer should be.  3.)  To put this into perspective I parse even with level 70 wizards in most cases, flip flop from time to time ... but in general sorcerers as a whole, warlock and wizard, are sadly under powered and over-aggro'ed in comparison to summoners and scouts, which can deal obscene amounts of damage CONSISTENTLY regardless of how many targets or how long the encounter, and have few aggro worries in comparison to warlocks who, frankly, get aggro on one cast of apocalypse or absolution.  Even with our new aggro tools its still extremely challenging to keep aggro off our backs ... and if you spend time using those de-aggro spells your DPS goes down to the point where the paladin will remove his amends from you and put it on, oh say, the bruiser (true story, lol).So to answer your question OP ... and to get back to what I said when I opened this post ... we are a great class but we aer a niche class.  And if your ultimate goal currently is to be the top of the food chain DPS raider ... you'll want to play a necro, conjurer, assassin, ranger, or bruiser.However if your goal is simply to group (which is 60% oif the game content) - warlocks are immense value in groups and no one will turn you down as a DPS class.  In most gorups you will be Numero Uno in DPS.And it's a fun class to play.  That's what really matters - play what you think is fun and don't worry too much about all this stuff.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Vicontessa on <span class=date_text>07-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:11 AM</span>

[lamebast]

<DIV>Well I hit 31 over the weekend and i cant help it im really enjoying the warlock. I find myself soloing ^^^ blue heroics and 6+ part heroic encounters. The xp is rediculous. I thought it over and i think warlock is great and tho they might not be #1 at raiding and dps yadda yadda i do enjoy playing one alot. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I played a rogue on wow and did top the dps charts but to be honest standing behind a mobs and hitting back stab back stab detaunt repeat till death can get old after awhile. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I travel as a trio with a berserker and a fury most of the time and i feel with the on hit proc buffs and the AE i bring alot to the party and i have played many other games with these 2 so we communicate well. So there is little aggro problems and we can take just about anything we come across so far. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also i find that if i cast concussive as the serker pulls no time is lost. Of corse if you ment in long term epic battles then yeah haha thats another story.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for everyones points of view.</DIV><p>Message Edited by lamebastrd on <span class=date_text>07-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:13 PM</span>

[Sluglord]

<DIV>I'd just like to add a point of view from the PvP side. I play on Venekor (62 Warlock right now) and I like it well enough. It's very much a group class, as has been said; I nearly always am grouped with a plate tank (Guardian,  hard to find on a PvP server) and a Fury at the very least. In normal non-raiding fighitng the Warlock is very good. Swashies (of which their are a billion on Venekor, along with Assassins and Brigands and Rangers) usually out parse me on DPS if they're equivalent level/gear, but only on single-target encounters. Our raids are little weird because I'm the only sorc type in the guild above the 40s or so (another problem on the PvP servers--non-pet clothies, including Illusionists/Coercers, are rare). But I'm able to do what is necessary dps wise on Epics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, the thing is, all the criticisms about Warlocks in raiding are probably dead on. But on a PvP server, you have to GET to the raid instance alive before you can worry about that. And in group PvP, Warlocks rock. Crappy as HELL as soloers, but wonderful in a group. Tank taunting, druids healing (try finding a high level Templar/Inquisitor/Defiler/Mystic, hah!), scouts poking, and me AoE stifling, DoTing, and nuking--very good stuff. Often it's important to get group-wide interrupts, and the Warlock can do that well, as well as clear out pet swarms. You have to be somewhat offensive--starting the fight is much much better than defending--but you can do pretty well. It's not the path to PvP glory like a Swashy or Zerk, but it's a lot more versatile IMO than a Wizzy on a PvP server. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course if you're on a PvE server, well, I can't help ya. I played a Conjuror there, and liked that <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>------------------</DIV> <DIV>Carnifax, Warlock of Qeynos</DIV> <DIV>Venekor</DIV>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lamebastrd wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well I hit 31 over the weekend and i cant help it im really enjoying the warlock.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If you are enjoying the Warlock at 31, wait till 40 when you get your group root and then 50 when you get Devastation...it is a true joy watching those big numbers flying off the top of the mob(s) heads. We need shorter casting timer and a smidgin more power transfer in our 'signature' spell. Other than that we do ok. I played my 'lock to 70 and will continue doing so until the servers go dark..<p>Message Edited by Tomanak on <span class=date_text>07-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:37 PM</span>

[phantomho]

<P>i love my warlock but they have issues.</P> <P>on raids most encounters are 1-3 mobs you are not the best at this many others will beat you we own with the 5 to 7 mob encounters which are very rare.</P> <P>agro is still needing help we need a tank with a class giving them agro and us with a troub taking ours away.</P> <P>we cast alot more and work alot harder than other classes to drag our way up to top of dps on raids but you can work it if you are willing to cast the whole fight.</P> <P>utility really needs help we don't get fd res evac coh you name it like other classes.</P> <P>on the other hand really fun class you never get bored as you constantly are working and begging conjurer for shards or necro for hearts to keep up power did i mention the horrid power cost :p</P> <P>then you get to farm level 17+ mobs for nil crystals so you can use some of your usefull spells on raids.</P> <P>solo got hurt with loss of stuns but we can still rock mobs really well.</P> <P>group we are great at for sure <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>this class is super fun over all but needs work and not the blind eye people prefer to what is needed utility, deagro, and power costs,</P> <P>like one of the above posters mention still a very fun class and soe has a way working around and fixing promblems in the long run.</P> <P>if you raid invest your aa's into damage not quicker cast times or deagro as they will not help as much as the bonus damage on raids or even solo. </P>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>As long as warlock can go full offense in AE fights noone can beat us... problem is to go full offense you need right group/raid set up ... or you end-up tanking <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warlocks sucks at burst damage, warlock have problems then deal comes to endurance fights but warlock shine in mid duration fights 15s-120s</DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:<BR>Gonna keep it simple. Firstly I was referring to raids. Group mobs (heroic) drop in 5s so I could care less about heroic mobs except maybe one instance in the game. Also I've raided everything in the game except for Chel'Drak and the Tree contested ring event in the AP (keeps despawning) and been playing since Jan 2005 so I got a lot of experience, and I can tell you now that AE is firstly, not needed in any encounter in the game, and secondly even if it were needed, you would need to AE them down very fast and warlocks cannot do that (huge cast times and aggro problems if cast AEs too early which negates the whole idea of AEing things down quickly) and thirdly and very importantly, AE dps is already very very high in raids. When there are raid trash mobs to AE you will probably cycle through every AE once and void absolution twice at most since they die super fast from other classes which can AE equally like us such as conjurors, necros, wizards and many more, even you said zerkers which is true so you have some idea. If you want number examples say you do 2k dps (considering if you got the right class backup) on trash AE mobs as a warlock and the conjuror/wizard/assassin etc does 1.8k, what is the difference? Does it even matter if you did 200 more dps on trash mobs while all those other classes (so many do more on singles than warlocks it's not funny) do several hundred more on singles and named which mean way way more? And what else does a warlock have? A power feed is all I can think of that's useful but then the wizards feeds the same amount and it's instant, and wizards have evac, warlocks have...? Seal buff is next to useless and if you really need it, troub has a same sort of buff and your disruption or whatever should be very high anyway. So if some of you are satisfied with being a trash mob class then I'm gonna end there.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>just because you cant widen the gap doesn't mean the potential isn't there to widen it further, warlocks only limitation is hate and encounter size.

[SmEaGoLLuM]

<div></div>Just because I can't? Haha don't tell me what I can or can't do. I'll tell you now you have done nothing in this game compared to me illusivethoughts and don't know half the crap you are talking about. Skinned Chel'Drak yet? [Removed for Content]. I have two chars with full raid leg and fabled and masters, you? My above post was indicating AE is hardly required in raids because there is so much AE dps in the raid already and there is a lack of AE named encounters. Not only that of course there are a only few encounters on a whole raidwide perspective, mostly in Lyceum where the warlock excels in getting high for trash mobs, but who gives a crap on trash mobs once again? Are you so dumb you do not get the point? It is NOT about widening the gap on AE encounters with 5 or more. Most encounters are one, two or max three mob encounters and conj and wizards excel in those, warlocks only excel in 5 or more group encounters. 90% of this game is comprised of single, two or three group encounters. Only real AE friendly raid zone for warlocks is Lyceum, all the rest comprise mostly of singles and twos in an encounter. Although I play my assassin now I will tell you the warlock will not even make top five 95% of the time on named encounters if everyone tries, no matter how good or how well equipped the warlock is and it is no fault of your own. After all, it is in named encounters which matter, any raid can kill trash mobs, anyone heard people bringing warlocks just to kill Lyceum trash mobs faster (even though summoners and wiz are more than enough). Why are you here trolling again? You were one of the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]heads who complained every day about warlocks back before LU13 which eventually ended the warlock class' viability - what a surprise though, you're a wizard. Don't get started here and post a bull [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] post every time a valid warlock issue comes up. Deep inside you want to keep the wizard dominance that it is at the moment, so don't post your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] again.<div></div><p>Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on <span class=date_text>07-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:21 PM</span>

[noetici]

<DIV>Hm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My warlock does quite well at AE damage. Even with a mezzer. Maybe I'm mistaken but I do believe that encounter-locked AE's are quite usable even with mezzed mobs since the mezzing makes the mob immune to non-direct AE's (aka, if you don't have the mezzed mob targetted).  You can't use "real" AE's (non-encounter-locked), but warlocks can still do pretty nice AE DPS without using those. Warlocks still have some issues, but I really enjoy playing the class. All classes will have times when they will be surpassed in various ways by other classes. Don't worry about what other classes can do. Besides, warlocks have cuter hats.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Mistress Liloo, 56 Warlock</DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:<BR> Just because I can't? Haha don't tell me what I can or can't do. I'll tell you now you have done nothing in this game compared to me illusivethoughts and don't know half the crap you are talking about. Skinned Chel'Drak yet? [Removed for Content]. I have two chars with full raid leg and fabled and masters, you? My above post was indicating AE is hardly required in raids because there is so much AE dps in the raid already and there is a lack of AE named encounters. Not only that of course there are a only few encounters on a whole raidwide perspective, mostly in Lyceum where the warlock excels in getting high for trash mobs, but who gives a crap on trash mobs once again? Are you so dumb you do not get the point? It is NOT about widening the gap on AE encounters with 5 or more. Most encounters are one, two or max three mob encounters and conj and wizards excel in those, warlocks only excel in 5 or more group encounters. 90% of this game is comprised of single, two or three group encounters. Only real AE friendly raid zone for warlocks is Lyceum, all the rest comprise mostly of singles and twos in an encounter. Although I play my assassin now I will tell you the warlock will not even make top five 95% of the time on named encounters if everyone tries, no matter how good or how well equipped the warlock is and it is no fault of your own. After all, it is in named encounters which matter, any raid can kill trash mobs, anyone heard people bringing warlocks just to kill Lyceum trash mobs faster (even though summoners and wiz are more than enough). Why are you here trolling again? You were one of the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]heads who complained every day about warlocks back before LU13 which eventually ended the warlock class' viability - what a surprise though, you're a wizard. Don't get started here and post a bull [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] post every time a valid warlock issue comes up. Deep inside you want to keep the wizard dominance that it is at the moment, so don't post your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] again.<BR> <P>Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on <SPAN class=date_text>07-15-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:21 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>trying to enlarge your [Removed for Content]? or is that your ego? I think its both.  if you cant out dps the wiz on a 3 mob encounter your doing something wrong or your not getting the raid support to do so, get over it and yourself, you'll be a lot happier.<p>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <span class=date_text>07-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:37 PM</span>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

<div></div><div></div>You need to check in your spell list of a spell called fusion. That's right, don't say how warlocks can beat wizards easily on 2 or 3 mob encounters. O you say you get aggro? But weren't you the one talking about having the right support? Most of this game is made up of single to three mob encounters, fusion hits three. And you only ever come across an encounter with two or three every few minutes so the recast is not an issue. You don't need bloody three green AEs like the warlock class has, because for example in a two mob encounter, the first mob is pretty much dead before you finish casting your last AE. Large quantities of AE dps is simply not needed in this game, especially if they are green AEs. As I said warlocks only excel in 5 or more grouped encounters. And as I said for the 5th time, IN THE END, IT DOES NOT EVEN MATTER, they are just trash mobs. So not only do wizards get the same numbers on most of the trash mobs, they excel over the warlock on named almost every single time. Combine all the named parses of any zone and the warlock is way behind and will not even make top 5. The warlock is [Removed for Content] right now for raids, there is no denying that from anyone in a top raiding guild worldwide, don't make me waste more time on you, warlocks are only marginally better than rangers for a dps slot.Get some real raid experience before you talk crap out of your [Removed for Content] again. The more I say it is not about killing trash mobs the more crap you talk about it. Read my previous post again, read it over and over, then print it out and use it to wipe your [Removed for Content]. You can say I have an ego, think I care? In the end what do you have to show about knowing the raid scene? I think obviously you have your head up the [Removed for Content] of your class and as I've said before you don't deserve any more respect than a stan off Chel'Drak.<div></div><p>Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on <span class=date_text>07-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:57 PM</span>

[Inebriation]

<blockquote><hr>lamebastrd wrote:<div>Wow this turned out rather depressing ><</div> <div> </div> <div>I do enjoy the warlock tho lol but from what i gather here basicly you hit end game and become obsolete. oh Joy. I lvl so fast as lock just AEing thro masses of mobs, but i guess that wont last forever.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote> I wouldn't say obsolete, but your abilities do become of less use for certain stuff. Which is why I'm waiting for the next expansion where maybe they'll put us to use! :o You never know, man.<div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:<BR> print it out and use it to wipe your [Removed for Content]. <P>Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on <SPAN class=date_text>07-16-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:57 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>perfect looks like we finally agree on your point of view <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

Yea... that you never post anything to back up your argument. Why even debate, you got nothing. All you post is crap and gibberish like every post in this thread. Seriously, you have no points, nothing to back up your lack of points, we all see what you are trying to do. Just end it there and crawl into the hole you came from.<div></div>

[SvipOman]

 Your really need to grow up and behave kid ! !   Admin ? ? ?<div></div>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>FYI fusion have 15% angle attack everything outside of this cone will be missed ..... So to hit 3 mob with Fusion you need extreme luck, with Rift you always hit everything around, below and above you</DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>FYI fusion have 15% angle attack everything outside of this cone will be missed ..... So to hit 3 mob with Fusion you need extreme luck, with Rift you always hit everything around, below and above you</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>actually its a 60 degree cone in front of the wizard in a 5 meter range.

[phantomho]

<P>way our guild pulls mobs they all park on the tank.</P> <P>so our wizards hit all three with fusion fairly easy and can do nasty damage, </P> <P>for rift to get best result you really need 5+ mobs or 12 which is max would make it great but no such thing in the end game.</P> <P>less then 5 with cast time and all you are better chaining off other spells for damage.</P> <P>even with 3 mobs rift that is only 15k.</P> <P>with lyc pulls it is nice but still would be nice to have alot more 5 plus pulls and some 12'd to actually get full use out of it.</P>

[Stabnes]

Pretty funny to read that someone is stating that AoE isnt important in raids because so many AoE is already being done! Do you see the contradict? If AoE would be so unimportant, why is it being used so much on raids? AoE is most of the time not used on bosses, but while clearing the zone to reach those bosses AoE is a Gods Gift to speed things up. Why is AoE taunt so important: Because there is AoE on the loose and its there for a reason. With AoE you can go to bed after 3 hours raiding instead of 6 hours. It  is true that the dps from a Warlock on raidbosses are not top of the bill, but I cant read anywhere that that should be the case. In general a Warlock is not the best class to play when you are going for full raid-style, but hey its not the worst neither. And tell you what: A wizzie cant nuke AoE with his single target nuke, a Warlock can always hit a single target with his AoE spel! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

<blockquote><hr>Stabnes wrote:Pretty funny to read that someone is stating that AoE isnt important in raids because so many AoE is already being done! Do you see the contradict? If AoE would be so unimportant, why is it being used so much on raids? AoE is most of the time not used on bosses, but while clearing the zone to reach those bosses AoE is a Gods Gift to speed things up. Why is AoE taunt so important: Because there is AoE on the loose and its there for a reason. With AoE you can go to bed after 3 hours raiding instead of 6 hours. It  is true that the dps from a Warlock on raidbosses are not top of the bill, but I cant read anywhere that that should be the case. In general a Warlock is not the best class to play when you are going for full raid-style, but hey its not the worst neither. And tell you what: A wizzie cant nuke AoE with his single target nuke, a Warlock can always hit a single target with his AoE spel! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div><hr></blockquote>You obviously don't know [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if you think warlocks are fine compared to wizards. Regarding AE, the only time AE is nice to have to speed things up is in Lyceum. It is the fact that there is so much AE dps in raids that you do not need to bring a specialised AE class for anything. You can't comprehend that? So you would get a warlock into the guild just so you can finish Lyceum 10 minutes earlier? Cos that is the ONLY place where warlocks can get top 2. It is not that AE is not nice to have, it is not going to tip the scales in an important fight, i.e named fight, it is only meant to speed up killing trash mobs, but that is not the point - the point is there is so much AE dps already from other classes and in the raid that a warlock is never needed cos of their AE 'capabilities' making <i>warlocks</i> unimportant to have. Do you understand now? You saying they are not top of the hill is an understatement. Even with full masters they are no where near the top compared to any of the other t1 and t2 dps classes with the exception of the ranger. Also did you know that conjurors can do more AE dps and offer way more utility and also with less aggro and wizard can get the same AE dps as a warlock most of the time? Even more reason that a warlock is not needed. And what kind of BS is with your last comment. Other than apocalypse you are losing dps if you cast AE spells on single targets, not to mention using more power, and that goes for every class - you don't cast your AE spells on a single target when you have your single target spells up. But do you know what IS the truth? No matter if it's AE or not, wizards can cast most of their spells, whereas a warlock casts about 50% of his spells most of the time cos so many are green spells and useless spells. Even in an AE encounter is it not like the warlock is casting their AEs the whole fight, only until the adds are down and then it is a single target again. Don't come here and talk [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] up with your bias. We are talking about raids here so if you say warlocks are not that great for raid style play, then you are basically agreeing to everything said. Are you one of those Lyceum/Labs relic farmers? Kill a boss raid mob first or second worldwide, then come back here and talk, or just kill every raid mob in the game first hand and experience it.

[SmEaGoLLuM]

I would like to add that you mean to say warlock is just supposed to be a trash killing class? Someone you use to kill trash then kick when you get to an actual important encounter like a named? Do you ever actually kill named mobs mate? And especially ones like contested, and I don't know... Chel'Drak? Tell me why you need AE, or namely, a warlock in those encounters? You go there or go into the instance and the only thing there is the named mob. Ever encountered that before? You must be only doing Labs and Lyceum to think warlocks are useful as a whole. I hope someone who matters from SOE is reading this.If you look at WoW, AE actually matters and is a treat to have, and when you need it, you call upon the mage there. Why? Because they are the only class which have good AEs of any sort and hence offer a unique hand in dealing AE dmg. This makes the mage in WoW a very viable class to have when you require AE dmg. It is not like that in EQ2 and with the warlock class in EQ2. When they branded the warlock an AE specialist class at the beginning of DoF, in which most rejected, they became obselete then because AE is nothing special in this game and being an AE specialist class, you are even worse off. And if you look at the way AE works in WoW, they actually have instant cast AEs and affects everything around you and some where you can even self target a certain area, and <i>only</i> the mage has the most powerful ones, the others classes don't even compare. In EQ2, all AEs require you to stand there for a few secs and <i>every</i> class has them - that's right - EVERY. Do you see now why being an 'AE specialist class' that is the warlock is nothing special at all in this game? I put apostrophes around those words cos they are not even the best in which they were proposed to be, and others either surpass or do an equal amount, not to mention so many can do it well which was my point of my previous posts.<div></div>

[Xede]

<P>this isnt WoW so stop comparing this game to WoW</P> <P>WoW sucks balls and i will always feel that way</P> <P> </P> <P>also on the chel drak fight and killing it about 6 or 7 times now i will disagree that warlocks AE is nice to have...why you ask? well when you get the adds taht spawn which is usually about 5 it is nice to have an AE specialist.....and also when the mage archtype mob spawns we can burn it down along with other mage classes. We also have a str/int debuff as well we can throw on Chel Drak as well so he doesnt hit as hard.</P>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

A lot of people seem to have a natural hatred for WoW, mainly those who have played EQ1 and dislike how WoW has taken the spotlight and shined over EQ's successor. But in the end, their success cannot be undermined whether you like the game or not. Why? One large reason is the classes there are actually unique there.<div></div>

[Xede]

<DIV>i never played EQ1 and have played WoW so my opinion is from my experience with the game. =]</DIV>

[Legaroth]

unique inside or outside game ?if the classes inside EQ2 werent unique why would a lock suck where a wizz dont ?WoW didnt bring anything new or exiting, they just brought an excisting, easy to use and understand game to a mmo, and made it so easy even my gf is 54 now and she doesnt even know how to taunt. why we hate wow ? because this is the eq2 forum. i dont like reading anything about another game in any forum im at, since i came there to read about game x, not Wow (most if not all wow lovers, come to forums to talk about how good their game is :/ )seriously, ive not met alot of people who think to know it all, but you sure do. but keyword is, offcourse, think. if you think they make a aoe class without actuall use, then you are the fool. its either we dont see the use they intended locks to have, or we expect to much from it. alot of locks say they parse pretty high even on single targets, and they get good AOE for a few situations to ballance it out to make them a good dps class.if all classes that where sub par dps, unwelcome at a raid, youd have a few healers, a tank, some agro reduce people and the rest filled with the #1 dps class. just be glad to see people play a warlock, or any other so called obsolete class, because the world would only look empty if you see only necros and conjurers<div></div>

[Melseb]

<blockquote><hr>Patrix513 wrote:<div></div> <p></p><p>also on the chel drak fight and killing it about 6 or 7 times now i will disagree that warlocks AE is nice to have...why you ask? well when you get the adds taht spawn which is usually about 5 it is nice to have an AE specialist.....and also when the mage archtype mob spawns we can burn it down along with other mage classes. We also have a str/int debuff as well we can throw on Chel Drak as well so he doesnt hit as hard.</p><hr></blockquote>I couldn't agree more. When raiding cheldrak, Its important that those adds go down fast. Well, we always end the fight a solid 2 minutes faster when we have both warlocks on that raid and I NEVER get outparsed on that fight.But besides that, there are several encounters in EoF that AE dps really shine in. In freethinkers, there are encounters with 4 epic mobs in which i parse over 3k dps in a 4 minute fight.  In Inner Sanctum, there are those animated armor guys with a metric 8utt-load of hp; I never get outparsed on the 2 mob encounters there either. I also am doing about 1800 dps on single target mobs since the expansion and new AA's which is keeping me in the top 3 parse on single mobs. Bottom line: AE spcializing is not useless. Either way we have the capability of doing very good single target dps.Its ok if warlocks are only teh WTFBBQPWNZ0R class in certain circumstances.Daenarys70 WarlockMob SquadKithicor<div></div>

[oyroy]

You can say Warlock cant always shine as much on raids as some other classes, but, it also depends on how well you play your class, and how well others play their classes. You rarley find (except in top raiding guilds) raids where all play their classes to perfection. Can climb high up even on solo mobs. Use all your utilities, try different tactics and so on. If you get to know your class and play it well, you can usually beat lots of other "better classes" cause they just dont play their own classes good enough. Also, if you like your class, does it really matter if its the best as long as you enjoy playing it, and you can actually do your share of whats needed? If everyone wanted to be the best dps class we wouldnt have anything else but assassins, wizzies, summoners, but how fun would that be?

[Ravenhoft]

<div><blockquote><hr> If everyone wanted to be the best dps class we wouldnt have anything else but assassins, wizzies, summoners, but how fun would that be?<hr></blockquote>Well, that is the reason I made a Necro alt...why suck at DPS <b>most</b> of the time, when you can be one of the <b>best at DPS</b> and have some of the <b>best utility for raids</b> AND be one of the<b> best Soloers?  </b>Doesn't seem to be a hard choice to make, really.  Heck with starting at lvl 10 for gaining AA and not 50+ as my warlock did, I will have my AAs up to their current level by the time I hit max level anyway.  Well, that and deciding on whether to play my inqi as my "main alt" is really the only hard choice right now.</div>